*Update...
"CNN News Editor Ryan Sloane claims that CNN confirmed that this Facebook account is a fake and does not belong to the real officer Wilson. Sloan did not elaborate on how CNN confirmed this nor link to a story discussing the matter."h/t Evi L. Bloggerlady
*Update 2........
It's CNN and they didn't elaborate with any facts. Caveat Reader.
82 comments:
You have probably decided whether you believe Darren Wilson is innocent or guilty of the murder of Michael Brown. This copy of Wilson's Facebook posting tells his story of the events leading up to Brown's death.
I haven't made up my mind about whether Wilson's shooting of Brown was justified. I'd like to view more facts.
This conflicts with the initial account which triggered the unrest. Again, the autopsy should show all of the bullets came from the front if this is true. It certainly looks like the aftermath of what you can see for yourself in the aftermath video. But by all means let's keep blaming body armor and keep making up stories about the cops getting their stories straight.
I can hardly wait for the Eric Holder demanded super accurate autopsy that will find exactly what Eric Holder wants found.
By the way, five black men were shot to death in Chicago this weekend. Holder has not demanded second autopsies on any of the deceased.
BTW, where is Spinelli during all this back and forth here? He has an eye for investigation.
In my naïve years (not that they are entirely past) I would have taken a cop's word at face value, because I knew not history, nor more locally how the world actually worked.
I'll still give the benefit of the doubt in most cases, I suppose, to the cop's. Though I am more and more coming to the conclusion that nothing is to be taken for granted when it comes to the truth of any individual incident.
We need more cameras perhaps, as additional witnesses. Not just dashboard but mounted on the top of the vehicle with a 360 degree recording angle. And more cameras on individual officers too.
It is a much deeper issue than camera's of course. It's an issue of trust, in our government, both national and local. Which trust may be at its lowest point since the founding of this republic.
Concur, would like to hear Spinelli's thoughts.
Is this truly his Facebook posting? It sounds more credible than Darren Johnson's rendering. Darren, if I have the name right, was Brown's friend. He claims that Brown raised his hands and piteously begged the officer not to shoot. Darren described the store robbery as a "prank". I don't know if the officer's version is absolutely accurate, but my spidey sense tells me that Darren is not to be trusted....If the incident went down the way the officer described, what are the chances someone from the community will offer corroborative testimony. My guess is that pigs will sprout gossamer wings and fly to the moon before that happens..
"It sounds more credible than Darren Johnson's rendering."
You mean a policeman is more credible than a crook? Yep.
I'll wait for the authorities to determine whether it was "justified". Assuming this account if correct, (and why wouldn't it be?) there was no reason to riot or this or to play racial politics. I'm simply astounded how people get suckered in to this crap over and over again. Please point all the cases in last year where "white cops" executed "blacks" for the fun of it? We got 18,000 murders and 400 killed by Cops every year. Yet the media picks out one or two and goes to town. Yet no one is ever skeptical or thinks "wow, maybe this didn't happen".
People express doubt. Doubt based on what? Past history? How many of the 400 people killed by Cops last year, were killed unjustifiably?
You've seen the early witness video uploaded to ijreview and YouTube and all over the place that confirms this version of the story.
But it's all so wearisome. Notice the scene is the projects (They always remind me of so much on-base housing) and that goes far in explaining walking down the center of the street and not on the sidewalk, because they own them. In their minds. It is the essence of the meaning of "my hood."
Thus the seething outrage: the government helps you in its way and you become stuck in that level of help and through generations resentments boil. That is humanity in a nutshell.
They (the government, political parties) will help you, but only so much, only so far, only so much and so far as to keep you voting their way.
But this is more interesting and pleasant on ijreview. The story of a man with relics for heirlooms. And no real idea of the relic's worth. I notice quite a lot of Amerind stuff on the shelves with tags on them. Pilfer!
I know a guy with a display case stuffed with small Amerind objects, found arrowheads, tiny clay bowls, small baskets of woven pine needles, and such. The thing that caught my attention was a small ugly bastet that didn't fit with the American things. But all that Indian stuff would be considered pilfered today.
The thing is, Amerind art is available today. Modern American Indians are still cranking it out. And it is real indian art. Jade and silver jewelry and the like. And modern Indian artists such as you see spread out on blankets on the sidewalks and inside galleries in Taos really are authentic Indian artists. Every bit as valid as antiques.
A British world traveler blew off Taos as hokey and touristy. Uckfay her. She knows not that which she mocks.
Interesting that we've come to the point that everyone is assumed to be bullshitting. Pics or it didn't happen. Maybe even then. It's a Photshop!
More than 50 police officers were shot to death in 2012, by the way, and another seven stabbed to death.
The professionalism of the Ferguson PD is looking just a tad shaky.
He goes public on Facebook before an official version of the facts is released by the authorities. Really? Perhaps a fraud.
And actually Haz, I haven't made up my mind either. Autopsy will tell a lot, but if there's not a public hearing with witness testimony I may never be sure. Taking the officer's version at face value is something I might have done 30 years ago, but not now.
"Taking the officer's version at face value is something I might have done 30 years ago, but not now."
I don't know what that means. Given what we know, I'll take the word of the cop over the crook. What evidence do you have to the contrary?
If there was any credible evidence showing the officer did anything wrong, Holder would not have ordered the additional autopsy.
If there was any credible evidence showing the officer did anything wrong, Holder would not have ordered the additional autopsy.
He could also being doing it to placate the family and larger community -- as a gesture.
rcocean said...
People are innocent until proven guilty and Cops are assumed to have behaved correctly until PROVEN otherwise. Killing someone without cause is a crime - even if you're a Cop.
I recall during that renegade cop manhunt in L.A. how people I thought were law and order types were apologizing for the cop killer.
bum-rush
verb
USinformal
gerund or present participle: bum-rushing
suddenly force or barge one's way into.
"fans bum-rushed record stores"
I would guess this is fake unless the cop is truly nuts. I am sure no lawyer would sign off on this and he has almost certainly spoken to a lawyer from the union by now.
The audio Chip linked to confirms what the Facebook post says.
btw, great find Hazman.
I am sure no lawyer would sign off on this and
When your face is all over the news and the internet for the entire world as "the shooter" of a black "unarmed teenager"... the president of the United States goes on television and insinuates you did something wrong, you are indirectly accused of causing riots and looting in your state and country...
I believe I might want to say something in my defense, hell yea.
btw, I want to go on record as taking the word of a cop over a crook.
I remember the early reports on the Trayvon Martin case. Most of them turned out to be false. Ditto with the Duke case. And not much introspection on the part of the media on why they got it wrong.....You just don't hear anyone ask the kid that was with Wison a skeptical question....,Cops, on occasion, make dick moves, but I just don't believe any cop would empty his revolver into someone with their hands up, begging for heir lives. This kid participated in robbery ten mnutes earlier. Truth and justice are not his highest priorities. When the media speaks to him it's like they're interviewing Mother Theresa about her work among the lepers.
Trust no one.
I can't remember who said that.
But it's not bad advice.
Unfortunately.
There is no way to tell from the limited information so far which version is the truth. What we need is evidence and facts. The autopsy should help.
What I do not like is the rush to find Wilson guilty by the government. Jay Nixon is ready to light the Bonfire of the Vanities. I do not trust Holder at all.
Michael Brown was likely a thug. The question is was Wilson's shooting justified under the circumstances.
"I recall during that renegade cop manhunt in L.A. how people I thought were law and order types were apologizing for the cop killer."
Wow, I guess you know some real screwballs.
"btw, I want to go on record as taking the word of a cop over a crook."
Good for you.
Personally, I'm finding it harder and harder to distinguish the two. Peer pressure is a mf...
rc,
I think you're misreading my refusal to extend unearned trust to a police officer as having an opinion on the justification for the shooting.
But to clarify, no, I would not say that the shooting was justified simply based on the officers story.
We know almost nothing in large part because the police have not released even a preliminary version of the details of the incident.
Let me clarify further - blindly trust a cop - hell no. That would be foolish.
The NY Times says the results of the family's autopsy are in and they show:
One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown's skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family's request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.
Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front.
XRay said...
Trust no one.
That may hold for total strangers but it's terrible terrible advice for getting through every day.
Lydia is always on point for facts that count.
Thank you!
I agree with ARM. It would be incredibly foolish to put this on Facebook. His lawyer would shit his pants,.
Then let me amend, please, with verify, verify, verify.
Lem said:
btw, I want to go on record as taking the word of a cop over a crook.
Not just by the way, but also to be clear, I am entirely willing to go on record as saying that you're, if not an idiot, then at least a sucking-up follower of a/many lazy thinker[s].
Define crook. DEFINE CROOK. And, after you bother to do that, would you mind explaining at what point "crook" translates into "death-sentence": First, in terms of the court/justice system, and, second, in terms of how, exactly, some whatever whomever police officer gets to circumvent even that.
Seriously, what the bleeding fuck?
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Immediate death sentence, meted out by the proximate and strong authority on scene. Helluva thing, innit.
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Also, helluva-thang reax's.
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Tell me why, please, why, again, why I'm supposed to [why?], pay heed to all of those wiser than I, more knowledgeable than I, better than I, and, above all [why again?], specially equipped to educated the young, including my own son, more than I am?
Define crook. DEFINE CROOK.
The guy walking with the deceased appears to be the crook. He's the one with the initial story which gained credulity at first. The counter story is the one now being heard.
Revenant, over on Althouse, actually speculated that this would happen, saying the that cops just needed time to get their stories straight and insinuating that the police version would be lies.
Should I link?
Oh, please.
chickelit, do you what you want, what you believe.
Let's not pretend it's otherwise.
According to the autopsy performed by Dr. Michael Baden, Michael Brown was shot four times in his right arm, at the front of his body, and once fatally in the head.
It can be reasoned that Darren Wilson fired four times to stop Brown, and failing that, one time lethally.
It's important that we now know that Brown was not shot in the back -- a story that got a lot of play because it was the one put out by the man who was with him at the time, Dorian Johnson:
The most vivid account of the shooting itself was given by Johnson, who told msnbc that he and Brown were walking toward Johnson’s house Saturday when a police officer in a car shouted at them to “get the f—k on the sidewalk.” Johnson said after the two kept walking, a confrontation ensued, during which the officer said, “I’m gonna shoot you,” shortly before opening fire. After Johnson and Brown took off running, the officer shot Brown again, this time in the back, before firing several more shots at him.
Here's the link for that Dorian Johnson quote.
The single most salient point is that Michael Brown was shot dead.
And for what?
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What the hell is wrong with you people?
Are you thinking it can't happen to you and yours, ever, if not in this very moment of time, then in the future, as we're merrily going along in our ways to a more controlling future?
Are you thinking it can't happen to you and yours, ever, if not in this very moment of time, then in the future, as we're merrily going along in our ways to a more controlling future?
The cop or the crooks? Why do you insinuate that I or anyone in my family would emulate the behavior of the crooks?
If you mean being the cops, then yes, I see your point. That would be a terrible decision or bridge to cross.
@rcommal: Is it the death or the show of lethal force which so bothers you? Would you be assuaged if the cop had undercut his approach by stopping his approach and thus only maimed him or do you instead believe the initial version of events? If the latter, then I see your points. Otherwise, not at all. Let's wait until all the facts are in.
He was shot dead for attacking an armed police officer. Maybe you should ask why he did that. If he got the cops gun and killed him, would you be asking what was the cop killed for, because the answer would be a box of cigars.
If the cop's account is true, this "victim" got exactly what he insisted on getting, by refusing to settle for anything less than being shot.
Count me in with those finding the cop's story more credible than the one that is entirely contrary to the facts we have so far. A man strong-arms an innocent storekeeper, and minutes later gets shot in the front torso and top of the head completely refuting the alternative narrative and testimony.
If you see it otherwise at this point, maybe you have a bias that overpowers your reasoning ability. That's a defect.
Oh and I think it really doesn't matter whether the cop "knew" or suspected that the two were the store robbers. It's more telling and relevant that the pair behaved as if they had done something wrong -- thus their overreaction and escalation of things. I'm now convinced by the autopsy that the accomplice was a liar, underscore. Why should anyone trust his word now? If the cop is shown to be a liar, I will state and say the same thing.
Is this Facebook post in confirmed?
The cop or the crooks? Why do you insinuate that I or anyone in my family would emulate the behavior of the crooks?
If you mean being the cops, then yes, I see your point. That would be a terrible decision or bridge to cross.
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Why do you insinuate that I or anyone in my family would emulate the behavior of the crooks?
Heh. LOL.
Why are you insinuating that I insinuated (that which I did not)?
Breitbart is questioning whether the Wilson Facebook post is a hoax.
It's more telling and relevant that the pair behaved as if they had done something wrong
By golly, now there's the exact thing that justifies if not the militarization of local authorities, than at least the gunning down by a police officer (whose salary is paid for by public taxes) of a teen-ager either innocent or at least not convicted yet of even a petty crime in connection with the incident over which authorities are now justifying what happened.
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You know what, chickelit?
Fine. You win. I am stupid. I know nothing. You are smart. You know everything. You believe that greater authoritarianism is of great value, or at least something akin to that.
I, on the other hand, am an ignorant asshole, utterly unworthy of a thought given to my thoughts.
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FU
Your writing "FU" is hurtful. I most certainly don't know everything.
I'm basing what I write on the version of facts espoused by the Michael Brown's friend vs. the facts I noticed in the photo (no back wounds and facing the cop car) and what came out in the autopsy. Why would anyone want to defend observable fact unless they were a defense council or a Devils Advocate? I must say, I don't get you in this case.
regards,
B
Good night all.
So the law had evidence that Brown wasn't shot in the back and they held that while the city burned just as they held the evidence of the robbery, and now the shooter is defending himself on Facebook. Jeebus. Is Leslie Nielsen the Chief of Police?
Should what so many of you think is going to happen in this country, may I just say that almost none of you are welcome to shelter in our home?
Because, Jesus Christ, who needs that sort of dishonesty in a clinch. And I am enough of a bitch to make distinctions that are important.
So sorry for that.
Not!
The Facebook account is the same as one reported on a talk radio show earlier today from someone claiming to be close to Wilson, and getting it first hand.
BTW, Facebook sucks monkey balls. I think we can all agree on that.
Should the cop have sacrificed his life that night because police forces are over-militarized?
This is about two young men, who happened upon each other. One was doing his job including carrying a gun, and the other was robbing and assaulting people. Never bring a box of cigars to a gun fight.
Your writing "FU" is hurtful.
I am sure it is, just as much as I am sure that you took seriously any time or example of...well, whatever. Ahem. LOL.
I don't believe that you're hurt by what I wrote anymore than I believe that you understand how much you joined up with the deliberately hurtful.
So it goes.
If you want, if you're willing, I'd go for declaring it even and then not speaking directly to each other.
In 2013, 105 LEOs were killed. Of those, the most frequent causes of death were nonaccidental gunfire (30), auto accidents (25), and heart attacks (10).
The number who died as a consequence of assault without a weapon was...0.
I fully understand that this might be bc. the LEOs shot would-be assailants whenever they got w/in 35 feet, of course.
Should the cop have sacrificed his life that night because police forces are over-militarized?
First, are you saying that the police officer was in danger of sacrificing his life in that particular instance?
Here are two lies that have been established. Darren Wilson was not a gentle, law abiding citizen as the family claimed. He was not shot n the back as the eyewitness claimed....According to MSNBC and CNN and, of course, the local community it was defamatory to release information that showed Darren committing robbery and assault and the six shots demonstrate overkill on the part of the cop......Just now I was watching live coverage before I went to bed. Some reporters claimed that they heard gunshots, at different times and different places, from the crowd. One MSNBC correspondent said that she saw someone attempt to make and throw a Molotov cocktail at the police. It fizzled.....Then other reporters and witnesses claimed that the whole mess was a result of police overreaction. How do you overreact when people are shooting at you and throwing gasoline bombs in your direction?.....I wouldn't look to see the cops giving up their armored vehicles just yet. Better to inflame the sensibility of the media and the protesters than to actually perish in flames.
I wouldn't look to see the cops giving up their armored vehicles just yet. Better to inflame the sensibility of the media and the protesters than to actually perish in flames.
Wow, oh day.
Reading over this thread, I'm getting the impression that folks here mostly are "for" not just local police, but specifically for local policing authorities armed in strongest ways by various fed grants under national support-auspices. And that while not understanding how that affects the mindsets of your local policing authorities!
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Again, I say: W.T.F?
Please explain and illuminate:
How come you think I'm the one who's more for control than you are?
"First, are you saying that the police officer was in danger of sacrificing his life in that particular instance?"
According to his account (the only one supported by the autopsy so far) Brown was struggling for the officer's gun in the car where it first went off. Brown later rushed him, so yea, according to him the guy tried twice to kill or assault him. What would you do? with a 6'4" 300lb man doing that to you?
Also, and separately:
It's to laugh out loud, the notion that there are people out there who on principle absolutely eschew the very idea for any reason of grants from the federal government to states and therefore consistently protest the affront to the average, local citizen.
Except, I guess, in terms of the exception for to arm local policing authorities.
Have I got that right?
Too bad Ferguson didn't buy its cops tasters and pepper spray to incapacitate big crazy guys.
And they also pushed the cop back into the car when he first tried to exit, so after the assault on the shopkeeper, that would be three assaults on the officer before the shooting started.
Tasers might've worked even better than tasters.
Unless the tasters were vampires.
Use the pepper spray before the taster for a nice spicy dish.
Let's wait until all the facts are in.
In this particular case, it appears that not even an initial police-blotter sketch of the incident was available for public view. Not even that. And I know from that (or, at least, I used to).
There's all, and then there's the suspicious break.
I do believe in waiting AND I also do believe in investigating. In addition, I do NOT believe in shying away from focusing on the profoundly suspicious.
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And all of that, as they say, is all of that.
Too bad the police didn't have a larger caliber handgun to stop that crazed son of a bitch. Too many shots fired. One does not carry a small caliber handgun when walking in the Alaskan bush, and the predators in both places are extremely dangerous.
Also, it is sad that the officer is barely literate. But perhaps fitting, given the milieu in which he works.
Color me skeptical.
Would a cop call Brown, "Michael", as if they were old friends, even on Facebook?
I'm also wary of the tone and style of it. No caps? And, after 6 years, one would assume your average cop would write a more professional-sounding report.
YMMV
I'll go with phony. I wish CNN would also show similar skepticism to the testimony of some of the pro Brown witnesses.
Whatever the outcome of this incident there will be more such confrontations in future and the guilty party in future, just as now, will be thug culture.
Thug culture dictates that you defy "The Man" when he orders you to get on the sidewalk, to stop walking down the middle of the road. No defiance, no incident.
The walk down the middle of the street is something I see periodically here. Always makes me laugh when I know that having to step off the curb if approaching a white person was mandatory for black folks in much of the Jim Crow south in the 50's.
So WTF are these ignorant thugs celebrating today?
Maybe good taste in their fashion choices?
I believe in dressing for the occasion. What outfits do you recommend the police wear tonight? Caps and batons for that casual look, or perhaps helmets and body armor for a more formal appearance. The upside of caps and short sleeves shirts is that the police look more accessible and less threatening, but the downside is that they get shot. It's a real conundrum.
If you get stopped by the cops, put your hands up, don't do anything or say anything. If they are crooked cops, it won't matter what you do or say. If they are honest cops, they won't feel threatened by you. Your best bet is to not do anything nasty, one way or the other.
The forensics discussion continues here, at EBL's.
I tried to read all of the Andrew Branca Twitter chatter...aggghh.
Anyway in the middle of all that were some remarks about the incident distance, now being alleged as 35 feet when the shooting started...where the officer was standing at the time isn't yet stated, nor how close the assailant got before being dripped. However...the 35 feet distance, for a start between assailant and officer, is close to what Tueller Drill would predict for a shooting event at a charging attacker claimed to have occurred in 2 seconds...e.g., the Tueller Drill standard (repeatedly proven) distance is 21 feet in 1.5 seconds for a reasonably well trained police officer, or civilian with experience. I've stated previously on similar subjects that at my age (71+) my Tueller Distance for draw and fire, accurately, is closer to 30 feet...age slows you down.
So what? Simple. If the distance between the officer and the assailant was 35 feet and the officer began shooting at that point, it fits Tueller Drill predictions, which are prudent if you are in fear for your life....due to a weapon OR overwhelming force.
What I'd like to know is the distance between the two when the assailant dropped to the ground dead? If THAT was 35 feet, then the officer may have a problem.
Some of the reporting says the distance from the police vehicle to the assailant's body was 35 feet. So...the actual position of both participants at the start makes a huge difference.
I was going to post the 21 foot rule, based on what my brother has told me, but I couldn't find a link.
Thanks, Ari, I appreciate that.
Just read the CNN caller thread where a "Josie" says the assailant fell to the ground 2-3 feet from the officer after the fatal shot. If true, that definitely fits the Tueller Drill predictions for a 2 second time frame....with 4 - 5 non-lethal shots before the fatal shot.
That said, the "Josie" story also related that the officer began the initial contact by speaking out of the cruiser window to the guy. THAT is a big procedural No-No, at least in my towns (Detroit and Dearborn) and it enables an assault by a perpetrator while the officer is seated, and semi-restrained. To make contact with a pedestrian(s), normally the cruiser pulls ahead, and the officer or officers exit the vehicle and one speaks to the person(s) of interest face to face...while the other stands slightly back watching.
This whole thing seems to be a mess. I will credit Fox news for clear uninterrupted coverage of the scene last night, which the others MSNBC, CNN, Al Jezerra, that I watched in the same time period, all were basically running clips (some form days earlier) and not actually reporting on the scene as it was last night. The two CNN guys who got stones thrown at them were standing in the middle of a cordoned off street running a opinion commentary between themselves with no attention to what was happening around them. Duh.
Sixty Grit ... reference the Tueller Drill, no problem. The best certification courses required for a CPL here all include a real Tueller Drill in the last hour of the course (range time)...e.g., 8 hours classroom and 4 hours range time (0900 - 2000, with hour off for lunch). Some of the quickie course that just do the minimum NRA requirements skip the extended range time....stupid IMO.
When my daughter decided she wanted a CPL and was moving in to the city core of Detroit, I suggested I take the course with her, even if I'd qualified previously. We took it together at the range I practice at weekly (owned and operated by local cops, active and retired) and I was impressed that they had extensive range time and the Tueller Drill to implant some "reality" in fresh CPL holder's minds. Further I was impressed that two of our classmates were also already qualified (both were police officers about to retire)and took the course to update themselves on what is good for a civilian, etc....which they were about to become again.
For the record for anyone in the general Detroit metropolitan area, the best place to take the course is "The Firing Line" in Westland, Michigan. The course, last time I checked, was $175 and worth a hundred more in its coverage. Guns don't scare me...ignorant people with guns do. When it is time for me to renew, I'll likely take the course again, because I don't know everything and never will, but would like to of course.
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