There are the protected and the unprotected. The protected make public policy. The unprotected live in it. The unprotected are starting to push back, powerfully....
If you are an unprotected American—one with limited resources and negligible access to power—you have absorbed some lessons from the past 20 years’ experience of illegal immigration. You know the Democrats won’t protect you and the Republicans won’t help you. Both parties refused to control the border. The Republicans were afraid of being called illiberal, racist, of losing a demographic for a generation. The Democrats wanted to keep the issue alive to use it as a wedge against the Republicans and to establish themselves as owners of the Hispanic vote.
Many Americans suffered from illegal immigration—its impact on labor markets, financial costs, crime, the sense that the rule of law was collapsing. But the protected did fine—more workers at lower wages. No effect of illegal immigration was likely to hurt them personally.
It was good for the protected. But the unprotected watched and saw. They realized the protected were not looking out for them, and they inferred that they were not looking out for the country, either.
The unprotected came to think they owed the establishment—another word for the protected—nothing, no particular loyalty, no old allegiance.
Mr. Trump came from that. (read the whole thing)
130 comments:
An excellent article that both explains Trump's appeal and explains why the anointed cannot fathom the reality that he will win.
"Mr. Trump came from that. "
Correction, he came from the perception of that.
There are places with similar immigrant problems, and places without them. Are any of them doing better than us?
If it's so important, then it's really not complicated. If you don't want immigrants coming, stop putting out the bait. Enforce the the laws we have, change a few and there will be no reason to come. The cost? Better than nothing. It will save billions.
East Berlin had a much more impenetrable wall that ours will ever be, but people were still willing to face near certain death to get what was on the other side. If West Berlin offered no sanctuary, they never would have crossed even a chalk line in the dirt. A wall wont' work. Walls require maintenance, surveillance, resources, will, and a consistency of all that. It's a fantasy that we will have or keep up such a thing.
If only I could buy what Trump is selling on immigration - or anything. I agree with Noonan here. she nailed it. It is the protected elites in hollywood/media and in Washington who don't give a crap about what they do to the rest of us. As long as they feel holier than thou doing it in their protected ivory towers.
This is her most powerful and timeless truth.
"You see the dynamic in many spheres. In Hollywood, as we still call it, where they make our rough culture, they are careful to protect their own children from its ill effects. In places with failing schools, they choose not to help them through the school liberation movement—charter schools, choice, etc.—because they fear to go up against the most reactionary professional group in America, the teachers unions. They let the public schools flounder. But their children go to the best private schools.
This is a terrible feature of our age—that we are governed by protected people who don’t seem to care that much about their unprotected fellow citizens. "
Obama barley mentions San Bernadino, but constantly lectures his own citizens about how horrid they are for not embracing his favorite religion. A religion that severs heads and burns people alive in cages, and mows innocents down by the handful with a nice dose of Jew-hate. The democrat party's sister city is the earth's most violent eternal victim.
so we turn to a man who has flip-flopped on the issue. Is he for real? Step right up and spin the wheel.
Noonan had her chance to stand against the powers that are, but went with them, so her opinion counts for nothing as far as I'm concerned.
As for what the "unprotected" thought they owed anybody, the powers that are betrayed everybody, so they are getting not only what they deserve, but what they've earned.
I agree with Peggy, although I think the terms the connected and the unconnected are possibly better than the protected and the unprotected. Minor quibble. What Peggy can't bring herself to say is that the protected/connected DESPISE the unprotected/unconnected. They know very well that leaving the doors wide open HURTS the unprotected and they revel in that pain. But Peggy is correct in saying the situation in which a nation's protected Establishment rules AGAINST its unprotected millions can't go on indefinitely. The Establishment doesn't believe that. The Establishment believes itself entitled to rule forever. Which means the Republican wing of the Establishment may very well deny Trump the nomination through machinations at the Convention. If that happens there will be a short term effect, the election of Rodham to the presidency (with which both wings of the Establishment can live quite happily) and a long term effect, the actual fracturing of the United States into several successor states. And that won't take long to happen. I believe the Establishment is stupid enough to force that outcome. The imposition of its will on the proles is more important to it than the survival of the nation in its present form.
I don't want some new political protection. The only protection we need is The Constitution. Once you demand more than that, you become one of the "protected" that's stepping on someone else.
We need protection mostly from the protectors - the government.
Donald needs protection from media insults. The power to sue. Always a good sign.
I don't think a brokered convention will happen.
Trump is going to win the nomination outright by amassing a plurality of delegates.
I think this went to press slightly before the Trump University story grew legs.
Is there anyone left in this country who isn't a victim?
Hillary is a victim of the vast right wing conspiracy.
Everybody is a victim of Wall Street.
Americans are victims of the rest of the world
Bernie is a victim of the DNC
Cruz is a victim of the RNC
Trump is a victim of his record.
I'm a victim of the victims.
We need a holiday: Victims Day - February 30th.
Wait... God Dammit!
Everybody is voting for the person they think will protect THEM, and the hell with everybody else:
Bernie's people think they need protection from having to pay for stuff.
Hillary's think vaginas need protection from being under-appreciated.
I better stop right there.
Hillary's supporters want to protect Hillary from the meanie VRWC and Hillary needs to gain the ultimate power in order to stay out of prison.
(A comment I made at Insty):
For the first time since the early 1980s the Republicans have a presidential candidate who is a full-on steamroller in the primaries. Better yet, he makes no fund raising demands from the Party, and his stage presence at rallies and debates is like no candidate before. His appeal crosses traditional party borders. Blue collar workers who are reliable Dem voters like the guy. He speaks to security and to the dislike of political correctness like no one else. He pushes back on the media so hard that we watch in amazement. His presence influences television ratings.
So the plan is to kill his candidacy.
Because the establishment insists on buying a candidate - preferably an unaccomplished first term senator - who can easily be manipulated by donors, columnists, advisors, assorted talking heads, and other neo-potentates who now find themselves shockingly pushed aside from the trough of political gruel they so depend on for psychological sustenance.
"Winners?? We don't want no stinking winners!" they proclaim, "We just want to be influential with a loser. It's who we are; we of the Stupid Party."
AprilApple said...
Donald needs protection from media insults. The power to sue. Always a good sign.
Like it or not, he does have a point. Once SCOTUS made it all but impossible to sue for libel or slander, the media has gone insane.
If Trump knocks that situation back into line, all well and good.
deborah said...
I think this went to press slightly before the Trump University story grew legs.
No, just after, but it's not so much legs as it's so vague anybody can make anything out of it they want and the media needs something now so they can try to save Cruz and Rubio in their home states.
The Cruzzers have turned it into a criminal case (it's not) and have convicted Trump without a trial or any kind of evidence (what, O what, would the One True Ted, defender of the Constitution, say?) when all he's been asked to do by not only the plaintiffs, but his own lawyers, is testify.
That might be true, Haz, but it doesn't change the fact that Trump is a flip-flopping embarrassment and a blow-hard who is new TO conservatism, (a word I don't like - btw)
Trump has no idea what he is talking about most of the time and relies heavily on worn out cliches and populist bromides. I remain skeptical.
Cruz is the only real conservative in the race. Rubio has a very high conservative rating and voting record. Much higher than conservatives of the past 20-30 years. He'd be considered "radical" conservative, if we could time travel back.
Considering the establishment hate Cruz and are embracing Trump, once again - I remain unimpressed/confused with the very candidate you say we need to stick it to the establishment.
I will not get past the fact that Trump has openly expressed adoration and respect for Hillary. Cruz and Rubio have never done that.
McCain has - and I detest him.
I hate the media too, but to be so thin skinned as to say you are going to divert energy to suing a media outlet if they don't tow your line? That's insane.
I do like what Trump is doing to political correctness. The imposed code of the protected.
Ed, I posted that because of a story I just read on it, plus the things Bago has been saying about screwing-the-little-guy business practices on Trump's part. I need to educate myself on Trumps business history. I realize many fail many times before success, but there are limits, ethics-wise.
Trump U article:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432010/trump-university-scam
(Yes, I see it's NRO.)
It's good that we can't all sue each other for libel at the drop of a hat.
Lem - agreed. There are times when Trump will say something so refreshing that I do feel a hint of jubilation. It's usually short lived after he says something so lame I want to curl up in a ball under the sofa, suck my thumb and whimper.
One of my favs is his recent statement about gitmo.
"we are gonna keep Gitmo open and fill it with bad dudes."
I loved that. really. That's good stuff right there. and totally do-able.
As I tweeted this morning, the nightmare worst case scenario is that Trump will go on to become one of our best presidents ever... despotic, rough edges, funny hair, stubby fingers and all.
Teddy Roosevelt was no slouch.
(btw - Why is Obama releasing terrorists out of Gtimo? I thought the left loved the idea of due process? )
If Trump puts a dent on the regulatory state it will all be worth it.
It took a TR to break up the monopolies... it make take a Trump to break up the unelected, unaccountable, economy choking, regulatory behemoth the three branches have created in order to skirt direct responsibilities.
That's our hope, Lem.
"I need to educate myself on Trumps business history"
Business involves risk and sometimes failure, but I don't know of any other businessman with so many failures as Trump. Rubio has a point that if not for his rich dad he'd probably be broke. Mathematically that's demonstrably true. If you remove the inheritance, and the normal return of an average businessman, his net worth goes negative with his return. Which means he's not very good at much beyond selling failure.
Failures:
Trump Airlines
GoTrump.com
Trump Mortgage
Trump Vodka
Trump University
Trump Magazine
Trump Casinos
Trump: The Game
Trump Steaks
and those are just the well known ones.
All these ventures involved losing investors who bought the same Trump sales pitch you are hearing now, often verbatim.
The difference between the famous Trump brand, and it's results are pretty stark.
But, don't trust a hater like me. Do your own research, unless you're scared. It scared me off the Trump bus.
Placing hope in un-vetted candidate. Gamble.
"the nightmare worst case scenario is that Trump will go on to become one of our best presidents ever."
Nothing would make me happier, but what people would consider the best President ever is pretty subjective. Some people still think Obama is the best ever. They tend to be the ones who were strongly invested before he got the chance.
If as you say he tears down much of the regulatory state, he would be at least one of the best, but regulations tend to be the product of people like Trump "making deals" with politicians to lock out the competition from smaller or newer businesses, often with a better product. It's a bit like expecting a fox to guard the hens. That plus his penchant for failure at whatever he tries outside of selling conflict, and angst.
Blogger AprilApple said...
Cruz is the only real conservative in the race. Rubio has a very high conservative rating and voting record. Much higher than conservatives of the past 20-30 years. He'd be considered "radical" conservative, if we could time travel back.
you must be joking.
Cruz' Conservatism is elastic as Hell. He was happy to help out Gang of 8, voted for TPP, and, after filibustering Omnibus spending, he voted for it.
As for Rubio, voting record is just that. When push came to shove, he was Chuckie Schumer's Republican.
Considering the establishment hate Cruz and are embracing Trump, once again - I remain unimpressed/confused with the very candidate you say we need to stick it to the establishment.
They see who's winning. No more.
I will not get past the fact that Trump has openly expressed adoration and respect for Hillary. Cruz and Rubio have never done that.
Tell me, how much business did Cruz and Rubio ever do in NY?
Or anywhere else?
bagoh20 said...
Business involves risk and sometimes failure, but I don't know of any other businessman with so many failures as Trump.
You risk big, you can lose big.
No risk, no failure. Some you mention - magazine, game, vodka, steaks - are absolutely risible.
He tries to crack markets already dominated by others and doesn't always make it.
I mean Trump:The Game failed? Wow, up against World of Warcraft and Myst, it failed?
Whoda thunk?
The Cruzzers are so desperate now, they're reaching for anything.
It's getting pathetic.
The only reason I'll vote for Trump over Hillary now is that I'd rather risk my life savings on the lottery than shoot myself in the head.
It's not at all about not trusting you bago. You never posted any articles that I saw, so I just read the wiki.
I think people who say he isn't beholden to anyone would do well to read the lawsuit section, and ties to Mafia.
He loses a lot of his lawsuits, and in some cases goes down in level. I.E., from CEO to chairman to nothing.
If he has ties to the Russian Mafia, where does that leave him when dealing with Russia?
but here we go again. Somehow we must ignore all of Trump's past wholly owned democrat/liberal stances.
"The economy does better under the Democrats." "I like universal healthcare." "Hillary Clinton is a terrific woman. She's a really good person."
"You have to give them a path. You have 20 million, 30 million, nobody knows what it is. It used to be 11 million. Now, today I hear it’s 11, but I don’t think it’s 11. I actually heard you probably have 30 million. You have to give them a path, and you have to make it possible for them to succeed. You have to do that."
--Donald Trump
No way Cruz is that liberal. Not even close.
Again - "I will not get past the fact that Trump has openly expressed adoration and respect for Hillary. Cruz and Rubio have never done that." --me
"Trump is a business man" is not the correct answer.
Brando does have electrolytes
I like her model. It works.
Her theory, unbridled immigration equals labor anxiety equals political upheaval.
It's not only the protected (her term) who invite open borders because they don't feel the affects personally. Libertarian economists believe in free movement of labor. The hardcore ones do. They'll follow Friedman right off the edge of a cliff. They'll ignore complete migrations of entire continents to favor their economic conceit that free movement of labor essential if not applauding free movement of labor across borders for being beneficial in their grand economic sweep. Ex: Paul Ryan.
[Apart from all this simple sweet good hearted people abjure border walls because the thought of them is unheavenly. People like me. La la la. It's all we innocent sweetheart types think about. Our single concern.]
But THAT looks at economics only and not at politics. That free movement of labor is accompanied with free political movement as well. The laborers bring with them their politics, the same politics that drove them out of their countries rich in natural resources. That's given. Will then there be free political flow both ways? That is, Mexico must then become so wedded to American culture and American economy and American politics that it accepts being governed by American Democrats, the oldest political party on earth, the greatest catch basin of straightup power mad crackpots known to history. Is Mexico willing to make such a tremendous admission of failure that they give their country away? Give it away to America, and that is to say give it away to be governed by American Democrats. That is what happens when things blend. We both want open borders. That is the exact same thing as saying you will now be joined in marriage forever. Prepare yourself to be dealing with American Democrats seriously impinging upon your control, as they must, for the rest of your nations's history. Forever. This is you giving up.
See? Her model leaves out straightforward libertarian economists the Friedman "Free to Choose" types. They appear to support open border policy without actually campaigning on it. Paul Ryan for example. I think he is economically-ideologically (Boy Scout motto motivated too but that's residual and irrelevant to the discussion here.Try to stop being so distracted, okay?) And her model leaves out sweet hearted people who simple bristly a the idea of barriers, and would prefer less insistence on border not more.
Still, solid commentary. I like her model a lot. It does explain a lot. But only a chunk. A corner of a chunk.
"The Cruzzers are so desperate now, they're reaching for anything.
It's getting pathetic."
What's desperate and pathetic is the kind of spinning and explaining away you are attempting to try and negate simple facts you don't want to face.
I doubt there is a single other billionaire businessmen who has such a bad business record, and if there is, why would that recommend him for a position like this? And most others successful billionaires never had his luxurious head start.
If you want him as President, no matter what, then just say that. But don't try to tell me the facts are bullshit, and attack me for showing you them. I just thought you might be care about the record of the man before you vote for him. I was wrong.
"All the other candidates are worse" argument is not solid. Trump is a salesman and a con-artist with as many bad deals and skeletons in his closet as the Clintons.
You know Lem, I must compliment you. You really are good at picking out the best turds from the stream of steaming piles of shit that pour in torrent by day and night. That there's a skill.
We're all seeing the same thing, we're all going, aw shit, aw shit, aw shit, aw shit, as the turds roil by and your skill with the clamps to pick one for dissection is excellent. We see on the Blogger post page list posts by different people in order and comments # and reader # go:
5
3
2
482
3
4
6
7,492
3
2
3
454
1
2
387
489
3
2
307
The numbers say you really know how to pick 'em.
bagoh20 said...
"The Cruzzers are so desperate now, they're reaching for anything.
It's getting pathetic.
What's desperate and pathetic is the kind of spinning and explaining away you are attempting to try and negate simple facts you don't want to face.
I'm not spinning anything, but a guy's computer game fails (or his steaks or a website), and suddenly he's the worst guy in the world?
The Cruzzers have spun and lied about this guy from Day 1. They've convicted for a crime nobody says has been committed, but they don't want to talk about how they spin and and explain away - when they're not flat out ignoring - all the holes in the One True Ted's rap.
I'm not all that crazy for Trump, but I have plenty of reason to distrust Cruz as much as Rubio. He's a showboat and a phony in my book.
What Trump will do, I have no idea, but I know I've tracked enough accusations about him by the Cruzzers back to the original source to know they don't like to let facts get in the way of their blind adoration of the One True Ted.
And, as we're on the subject, I have never seen so much projection as I do from the Cruz people talking about trump supporters. Everything they accuse Trump's people of doing, they're at least as guilty themselves. What's funny is the Cruzzers see their guy the way all the Obamatrons saw Pissy 8 years ago - the great Messiah who will rearrange the world in their image.
Ain't gonna happen. Trump can't do it, nobody can, but following somebody blindly because he represents some philosophical ideal because you're mad at the world for not turning out the way you want is a bad way to go.
AprilApple said...
"All the other candidates are worse" argument is not solid. Trump is a salesman and a con-artist with as many bad deals and skeletons in his closet as the Clintons
Name one that isn't. But don't tell me one of them is Rubio.
"It's not at all about not trusting you bago. You never posted any articles..."
No offense taken. I have posted links before, but I've found that posting the source of information just leads to immediate dismissal of the facts by dissing the source as biased or guilty of some sin. It just gives people a excuse to ignore what they don't want to hear. This stuff is not hard to find. The inconvenient truth is at our fingertips.
" a guy's computer game fails (or his steaks or a website), and suddenly he's the worst guy in the world?"
If that was the extent of it, he would have 3 times the net worth he has. How many failures does it take to make a man a bad bet? I wonder if you would invest in one of his "opportunities" if it cost you real money. Lots of people have, and in Trump lingo, "they're losers".
I note in passing that U.S. Grant was a failure as a businessman. He had many schemes to get rich but they never bore fruit. He did, however, have the optimism of a true entepeneur, and his spririts were always high. "That's OK. We'll get them tomorrow," he said to one of his generals after a losing battle.......What people admire about Trump is not so much his business acumen, but his salesmanship, self confidence, and upbeat spirits. He's a con man, but he's our con man.......... If you want a shrewd businessman who doesn't oversell himself, draft Bloomberg.
Name them - they are all better than Trump. Especially in the "Never supported Hillary" department.
I live in NYC. I think in some ways immigrants, both legal and illegal, have been the salvation of this city. Immigration is not a big issue for me, and more often than not I have liked the Hispanics I have encountered in my personal life. I think Trump's language has been needlessly offensive and that there are better, cheaper ways of restricting immigration than by building a huge wall.......That said, I am more offended by those who claim that only bigots want to defend our borders and that everyone who has snuck past the border has some kind of constitutional right to live here. The Hispanic people would be better served if they chose El Chappo and not Trump for the figure on their piñata.
Ed,
What are supporters of Cruz saying that in any way deserves: "Cruzzers see their guy the way all the Obamatrons saw Pissy 8 years ago - the great Messiah who will rearrange the world in their image.".
That's a perfect description of what we read here every day about Trump. Where is my adoration or great expectation for Cruz? I never had any. I like him most for what he won't do, and for what he has done for the short time he's had. I specifically prefer him for his lack of grandiose promises. I like that he expects, as I do, that getting government to do less will allow us to accomplish much more. That's not crazy ambition or hyperbole.
I don't expect him to build a thousand miles of incredible wall with a huge beautiful door, to destroy ISIS, make China kiss our ring, or any of the other bullshit Trumpers clearly suck up.
And surely you have to see the projection of a Trump supporter calling any other candidate a "a showboat and a phony". That just amazing.
I guess we won't ever see eye to eye on this stuff, because we don't seem to even see the facts before us in the same light. I really don't understand how that happens. I just hope we get lucky with Trump, because he's convinced enough of you to pretty much lock it up now.
William, FWIW, I agree with 100% of your 3:32 comment.
Ed, Evangelicals are breaking for Trump. Accd to Falwell's son, who is endorsing Trump, it is because 'he has met a payroll.'
Rubio on Trump:
You guys wanna have a little fun today?” Rubio mischievously asked the crowd, holding up his cell phone.
“Last night he was actually pretty calm after I punched him around a little bit,” he said of Trump.
“He’s learning how to spell, I guess. But he’s flying around on Hair Force One and tweeting.”
The spelling dig was a reference to a series of mistyped Trump tweets Friday, where the business mogul repeatedly called Rubio a “chocker” and noted the “honer” of winning polls.
“So here’s the one tweet he put out, he put out a picture of me having makeup put on me at the debate,” Rubio said, referring to another Trump tweet from Friday.
“Which is amazing me to me, that the guy with the worst spray tan in America is attacking me for putting on makeup.”
The kicker: “Donald Trump likes to sue people; he should sue whoever did that to his face.”
lol April. Rubio is having fun. I wonder who his writer is?
Correction: Bago, isn't a vote for Cruz most likely a vote for Hillary?
If you've followed my occasional commenting, I have been a fairly strong supporter of Trump. I like his style more than his substance– in fact, I believe his style is a critically important contribution to the process all by itself, because it breaks up the stranglehold the MSM has over the topics to be to discussed and the terms under which they are discussed. Mr. Anti-PC. But he also said the right things on a few important issues, immigration, etc., so with all that I was willing to overlook his lack of conservative bona fides.
Up until Scalia died, that is. Then it got real for me. What sort of justice would Trump appoint? One with views like those of his sister, which he has praised and apparently admires? To the Scalia chair?
Beyond that particular consideration, Ace has a nice treatment of the Trump phenomenon here. If you haven't read it already, read the whole thing, because it goes way beyond what the headline implies. IMHO, Ace effectively deconstructs and lays bare Trump’s supposed appeal to conservatives. I still believe Trump's style in general is the path to victory. If Romney had had a little Trump in him he'd be president now.
So then what do we have left? Cruz and Rubio. Cruz, personally liked by nobody but hard right idealogues, in a race traditionally won by the most likable candidate? Or the jejune and pro-amnesty Rubio? By the way, I'd still vote for Trump in the general over either Bernie or Hillary.
Bags do you know how many businesses fail every year? How many restaurants for example. Are all of those people who tried and failed morons and dishonest? Isn't better to try. To start 100 businesses and ten work out. Or do you take the position that you should just invest in the stock market and let other people create businesses and jobs.
bagoh20 said...
Ed,
What are supporters of Cruz saying that in any way deserves: "Cruzzers see their guy the way all the Obamatrons saw Pissy 8 years ago - the great Messiah who will rearrange the world in their image.".
He is the Only Conservative, his record is beyond question, while he's the most despised man in the Senate, they have no real idea how he would govern except to shut down the government, but he's gonna set the country right.
That good enough for openers?
Trumps flaws are all out there. Everybody knows them. Trump University? Hey if we are going to hold people accountable for phony degrees and money thrown down a rat hole then lets arrest all the teachers and law professors who rip off students for millions of dollars every year.
Trump University was a program to teach people to speculate in Real Estate. A business that many people fail at every year. There are thousands of such schools where people who are striving to improve themselves sign up to learn. It could be real estate. Modeling. Photography. There is a school that advertises on Sports Stations that you can learn to be a sportscaster. Thousands of people apply, get loans, spend tons of money and fail miserably. I bet I could find 1,000 mooks in the NYC area who applied to the Connecticut School of Broadcasting who can sing a sad song about the money they wasted to become the next Warner Wolf.
So if you want to use that as a reason not to vote form Trump than by all means use it. A school only gives you the tools. You have to use the knowledge to advance your career.
All of those lawyers who spent millions on school and can't get a job.....they should sue. If they learned how to do that.
What job did Marco Rubio ever create? What business did he ever run? What payroll did he ever meet? What decision was he forced to make that was a choice between bad alternatives but still had to be done to finish a project?
What the fuck did Marco Rubio ever do?
You could make a plausible case for Walker or Perry or Jindal or even Kasich. But Rubio?
Fuggedaboutit!
Rubio is having fun now. He is giving back to Trump all the stuff that Trump gives out. Which is great! I love it.
But where are all you pussies that were aghast at Trumps tone? Where are all you pussies that say that Trump brings down the process and debases everything to a reality show level? Rubio brings it down to a Telenovela level. He is the cheap-ass Spanish language reality show filler.
What is he going to do when Trump and his new pet attack dog Christie start to throw back some punches?
Never confuse quality posts with commentary - or even page views. You could write a post that would make Tolstoy in heaven smile and it would probably get fewer comments then a post labeled "Trump sucks".
Have you read 'Little Green Footballs'? Awful posts and a million comments.
Same thing with Trooper. There seems to be no correlation between how well his posts are written and the number of comments.
Cruz or Rubio? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put them both on the ticket, Rubio on top, Cruz for veep. Rubio is the more electable of the two I'd say, but with Cruz on there to capture everybody else.
Hey Lucy, I ask you to take in my pants you make them so tight all the boys in the band say naughty things behind my back make me hard. Not me Not ME YOU Lucy you make me do the switcheroo.
Trump knows his audience. People like vulgarity and rock and sock 'em action. For every Conservative Little Lord Fauntleroy there are 10 people who like questions about Clinton's underwear or Trump calling Jeb a wimp.
Romney was tagged as the out-of-touch white guy. The guy who looked like the guy who fired your father. Bush-1 was the same. He was the preppy who ran around on his speedboat and didn't know what a grocery store price scanner was.
Trump is a billionaire but he seems like an average Joe. Even though he isn't. He's the son of millionaire who went to the best schools and runs in elite circles. He knows how to market himself.
Some people are just earthy. Trump is earthy. It's not an act.
William @3:32 - worth reading.
Well said.
Millennial white boys have no work ethic. (ok- generally, but it's true) Hispanics work hard. (ok generally, but it's true) Most of the Hispanics I know are nice men who work over the summer and return home in the winter. The jobs they do are jobs white boys refuse to do.
That is just from watching and listening to the people around me who hire, and the guys in my hood who do the yard work.
My roofer friend cannot stand 20 something white boys. No luck at all with them. All they do is bitch and moan and expect raises for nothing and they piss-off the home owner. The home owners prefer the Hispanics who work hard and care about completing an excellent job with a satisfied customer .
I've said this before --my electrical friend cannot find younger people to hire. They whine a lot and cannot handle adversity. (actually adversity) When the jobs gets tough, they quit.
These are Bernie supporters.
I bet he pays those guys half of what he has to pay the white boys and he pays them off the books.
Nope. He runs a legit business.
The roofer wants to hire anyone who will work hard. He is fine with white boys - he wants to hire them. This is man who has 2 sons of his own. He gets it. It's a generational thing. When do ever see white boys doing manual labor? think about it.
they are all on grinder
If he is hiring people who work here and then go home every year he is not running a legit business. You don't get work visas that easy. They could be using phony social security numbers. I remember a basket factory that employed Polacks in Williamsberg. Every year I would hand out the W-2's and a different guy would show up to pick up that SS#. Same name of course. There are a million payroll scams.
Then in the restaruant world the phony id's were all over the place. You could tell.But without e-verify there was nothing you could do. Some people would give you a phony id# and then it would take a year or two for the government to catch up to it. Now it is instant on the computer and people who are employed and are illegal just get the money off the books.
I know your friend says he is legit. But I wouldn't bet my life on it.
Can he release his tax returns? I mean everyone should release his tax returns right?
By the way. You know who loves grinder? Marco Rubio.
when you keep hearing the same story from different people in different lines of work, a pattern emerges. That's all.
Sorry - it's the Yard-word people (not the roofing people) who have Hispanic employees who leave in winter.
The roofer guy hires full time/year round.
The yard people (a local firm) must use the HBvisa deal.
Most of the Hispanics I know are nice men who work over the summer and return home in the winter.
In other words ILLEGAL aliens because if they were legal immigrants, America would be their home. This is the problem. Immigration without being legal.....invasion. And no assimilation.
I'm not saying they aren't nice. I know many who work on the ranches and farms surrounding. But they are not legal immigrants and the don't consider this to be their country.
Nope. He runs a legit business
Your roofer friend is not running a legit business unless he is hiring citizens or people with valid legal documentation to be in this country. People who are using legitimate social security numbers and who are covered by his workman's comp. Roofing companies pay the highest level of workman's comp so it is not any wonder that a roofer would be hiring Mexicans, paying lower wages and probably not hiring legal citizens.
I don't disagree with you about the lack of work ethic in our young people.
I see we are getting the world view from the man who has lived on the same block his whole life and never driven a car. He is FLAT ASS WRONG about most Hispanics. But, he may be correct about the Hispanics on his block. He knows his block better than everyone. He's an expert on Court Street.
Thank you for clarifying April. What you said didn't add up.
I had over thirty years experience in working in NYC and I have seen many businesses and how they hire. Who they hire. The scams and the bullshit from the employers and the employees. New York City is a microcosm of both the country and the world. I meet and deal with more Hispanic and Muslim people in a day than someone in Wisconsin meets in a year. Many are good people. That is certainly true. Many are not. But most of them have one thing in common. Utter contempt for Americans. They all call them the same thing. "Stupid white people." If you don't let on that you understand Spanish you get the picture. Even more so if you have a little Hindi or Arabic which I developed over the past few years.
But it is always good to fool yourself. To pretend that there is not a problem. That somebody like Rubio is the answer. To go with the same things that have proven so effective and got us where we are today. Good luck with that.
I seriously doubt that you guy uses the H1b visa system. When I investigated the clothing factories I wanted to use to prepare my garments I went through about twenty five before I found someone who had the right paperwork. Most flat out refused to produce it because they were obviously using illegals. Especially Hispanics and Chinese. It is just the way it is in real life outside the bubble.
I've lived in 7 states in 3 different time zones. I currently live in San Diego w/ a huge Mexican population. Prefer them to angry, fearful, insular, white guys who have lived their entire lives on the same block, think NYC is all that, and have never driven a car.
Well then you should be very happy buddy. Via con dios.
What's so great about driving anyway? If it weren't for people who take Uber there wouldn't be a freaking job for half the Muslims in the NYC area. Jeeeez.
I had a friend who was in LCL 3, IBEW. He had to sign off on some restaurant renovations. Due to a bizarre set of circumstances (ex wife) he had the ability to tell the difference between Cantonese, Mandarin, and Fujianese. Most of the construction work on Chinese restaurants is done by Fujianese, and they are almost certainly illegal immigrants. On the other hand, the work gets done, and maybe it wouldn't get done if they used strictly union labor. And you can get slopped down with a good meal for under $10. There are pros and cons to this discussion.........The Irish burned down a good chunk of NYC during the Draft Riots. The Italians blessed us with the Mafia. The Jews were enthusiastic supporters of just about every lunatic political group in the country with the exception of the Nazis. I don't have anything bad to say about the Poles but their food isn't that great. Anyway, all immigrant groups are a pain in the ass for a generation or two. I wouldn't judge the Hispanics any more harshly than the others.......I don't know many Muslims. I suppose most of them are ok, but some of them are manifestly and emphatically not ok. I just don't see why we should take immigrants from countries where people grow up chanting "Death to America". Let them emigrate to Mexico.
DBQ - all I can say is that most of the same workers on the landscape crew return every year. I think that is a requirement of their status and the work visa. It's a legal set-up, as far as I know. (like it or not.) If we want to end it, then fine. but right now there are legal channels to hire people who are only here to work.
The roofer, as I stated above, has a difficult time finding reliable work. Roofing is hard and like you say, the the workman's comp is high. I'm not sure he's able to hire "illegals." I'll have to ask him. He merely stated he prefers hiring Hispanics due to their work ethic.
"Or do you take the position that you should just invest in the stock market and let other people create businesses and jobs.
If you have Trump's record of returns, then yes you should let someone else manage your money and business. Trump has been pushed out of more than one executive position by investors due to poor performance. He would be at least twice as rich if he simply put his money in the market and let others do the thinking, deciding, and leading.
Of course we should risk trying in business. As I've written many times here, I think a lot more people should try, and I recommend it over going to college for most people, but if you fail often and your overall success (return) over 4 decades is less than average,then maybe your brand as a business mind is a little inaccurate.
From what I discern, Trump supporters like him because he's rude, brash, and unapologetic. I don't find those to be admirable or effective qualities, but that's a matter of taste. They also like what he promises, despite doing and supporting just the opposite for years, but you can hope.
The important thing is that Trump support believes that he will do what he promises, because:
1) He's a successful man with experience running large organizations and making money.
2) They want desperately to believe he can and will do the things he promises.
The problem with that #1 is untrue, and without that #2 is an unfounded unreasonable belief.
1) He's not a successful man, because if not for starting with his father's money, his level of success would have left him broke, and obscure at best.
2) He's experience was only possible because of his father's money putting him in that position.
3) That experience is one more of failure than success.
4) His promises are old worn out ones he has made over and over to investors who he has failed.
5) When he fails, he blames others, and leaves those he promised looking like suckers, which after the first few times, they were.
I know people want change, he knows it too, so he's selling it, and much of what he's selling is directly opposite of what he's said and done his whole life. I also know he's likely to win the nomination, but just because the bandwagon is filling up doesn't make the driver with multiple DUI's any safer.
Deb:"Bago, isn't a vote for Cruz most likely a vote for Hillary?"
Nobody really knows who will be best against Hillary, but Trump has been at or near the bottom in those comparisons in the polls, and that's without the public even hearing the stuff I'm saying here, which is true and being assembled and loaded into the Hillary guns to be fired at best times for maximum damage. The Dems will exploit the hell out of that stuff. Best against Hillary are Rubio and Kassich, and I think they will improve that in the next polls. So should we nominate them?.
Ed says that Cruzzers say: "He is the Only Conservative, his record is beyond question, while he's the most despised man in the Senate, they have no real idea how he would govern except to shut down the government, but he's gonna set the country right."
1) He's not the only Conservative, I've said the most conservative.
2) Nobody's record is beyond question.
3) I thought having the establishment hate you was a good thing, of course only until they started liking Trump more than Cruz.
4) Shutting down the government was and is a great idea. I'd suggest doing it 4 days a week, until we get the books back in order, and find a way to make that work permanently, except for truly nessessary services like Muslim outreach at NASA.
the South is filled with Stupid D people who like Hillary, and know nothing about her corruption or who accept her corruption and still like/trust her. Nuts.
The establishment sucked until it went all in for Trump.
Why don't all the trump bashers just vote for Hillary. That's what u really want to do anyway.
We finally have a candidate who can actually win the general election.
BTW does the saying he who hath no sin throw the first stone.
No one is perfect.
Nobody is loving the establishment April. They still suck. And they are not all in for Trump.
Mitch the Bitch McConnell has advised his Senators up for re-election that if Trump is the nominee they should run against him and abandon the party. Most of the establishment is talking about a brokered convention or a third party run.
They can jump on the ship. But they will be put in steerage. Trump is building a new party with new voters. It is in fact a realignment. That is what is scaring the crap out of them.
The new party will be nationalistic. Populist. Not wedded to the old failed ideas. Fighting the last war. Jacksonian in the extreme. Not something the rich elites want to sign on to for the long haul. Watch and see.
We disagree that he can win the general. He has a pile of ick a mile high.
I'll still vote for him or anyone over Hillary. It's just odd that I'd end up voting for a man who was angry that Obama didn't pick the witch for his VP slot, because he held the witch in such high regard.
Trump is building a new party with new voters. It is in fact a realignment. That is what is scaring the crap out of them.
The new party will be called the Trump Party. What's left will be the "Rump Party."
Working that retrosynthetically, he's putting the "T" in rump.
Trump will get a big slice of the Democratic vote. The so called Reagan Democrats. He will draw on a lot of people that Cruz or Rubio would never reach. That is what makes him electable.
"No one is perfect."
Now that's a campaign slogan I can really get behind.
Make America Somewhat Great Again, More or Less, Or At Least give It A Go, and See What Happens, and If It Doesn't Work, Oh Well, I'm Still Rich!
We're gonna need bigger hats.
"The new party will be nationalistic. Populist. Not wedded to the old failed ideas. Fighting the last war. Jacksonian in the extreme. Not something the rich elites want to sign on to for the long haul.".
I'm pretty sure I'd be against that even if I was po, and not a prince of the grand duopoly.
You are not nationalistic bags? Well that explains it all right there. Thank you.
Are we gonna march the Mexicans to Oklahoma?
"Nationalistic" is a term like "horny". It depends on what I'm willing to do to express it.
What's next after all these years? Are you gonna ask me if I am or have ever been a member of the Communist party?
Did your family ever live in Five Points, and are you descended from William Poole?
Bring Jeb back! I loved it when I was accused of supporting him when I didn't blindly support Trump. Ah - those were the days.
lol Bagoh
Some of us are ringing the alarm button about Trump. Personally, I whis he would tone down the weird and uncalled-for insults.
Looks like it's on with Hillary. eee gads. Who wants to move to New Zealand with me? or possibly the planet zandmar.
I think it's important to remember that as awesome as it is, being an American for most of us is just the luck of the draw. We didn't earn it. We should ask ourselves honestly that if we had the bad luck to be born somewhere else, would we do what it takes to earn it?
My typing is going to sh*t. my comprehension skilz which are already lacking are also failing.
Goodnight. Blessings. I have a date.
Trooper, if you were born in Mexico, you'd be saying: "I ain't paying for his fucking wall -the pasty gringo puto!" Man, you would hate yourself something awful.
bags: In my youth, I did leave America and moved abroad. I wanted to get out of the States. I got permission to work in Switzerland and did so for a couple of years. I wouldn't have done so without the legality aspect -- not unless I felt entitled to move there. I think you are missing (deliberately?) the whole "I'm fucking entitled to live and work in Norte America" aspect. In my opinion, this may lead to something more than harsh words. It could lead to reviewing the whole Treaty of Guadalupe_Hidalgo. So, I understand why you take sides as you do.
@ricpic: I liked your 12:53 and agree with much of it. I would add that the elites already have many many role model nations to follow -- most of them are Latin American.
The future they are preparing for is one in which they remain in power while a permanent underclass services their needs.
ok I don't really have a date, just going to bed early again,.... with the pets.
as seen in a comments section:
"I don't normally subscribe to conspiracy theories but if the Dems wanted to have a stealth candidate to alienate and split the GOP base what could they do better than a Trump?
bagoh20 said...I think it's important to remember that as awesome as it is, being an American for most of us is just the luck of the draw. We didn't earn it. We should ask ourselves honestly that if we had the bad luck to be born somewhere else, would we do what it takes to earn it?
I can tell you're trying, but there is something missing in your folksy attempt to make things all well again in America. It's almost like you turned your back on something and embraced only what you see as the future. I hope your crystal ball is better than mine.
April quotes: I don't normally subscribe to conspiracy theories but if the Dems wanted to have a stealth candidate to alienate and split the GOP base what could they do better than a Trump?
If the democrats really wanted to win, don't you think they'd field a better candidate than Hillary? Your Trump conspiracy theory doesn't pass the Occam's Razor test.
chickelit, The point I'm making is that I'm not taking a side, at least not based on the luck of where I was born. If that's all there is to picking sides, then Obama was right that Greek exceptionalism is just as valid as ours, but of course it's not.
I think Trump supporters over-estimate the number of Americans who think like they do. They seem to have a very strong confirmation bias on the subject. On the other side, I think the left underestimates, or at least did, just how many voters do buy into Trump's sales pitch. The point is that neither side has a huge mandate to do their desire. It's a divided country, and what's needed is getting varied people to converge on ideas we can share via convincing them through facts and arguments rather than hoping to force each other to comply. Authoritarianism from either side is doomed to reversal, but it sure makes a mess of counties when it gets a little power. The U.S. was designed specifically to prevent that. I'm on the side of our exceptional founding principles.
Chickie, If you were born poor in Mexico with no future for yourself or your family and with The United States walking distance away, and the government here allowed you to work, offered a free education for your kids, in-state tuition rates at college, free health care, food stamps and welfare if you needed it, and a future a hundred times brighter than in your home country, and everyone you know was already there doing it, would you walk across that border knowing the government here was pretty much OK with it?
Would a wall stop you, if there were tunnels, and ways over or around it?
If the democrats really wanted to win, don't you think they'd field a better candidate than Hillary?"
Are you suggesting they don't want to win?
115+ comments! That Trump is rainmaker.
Yeah, its kinda nice when you're an old, well-to-do, white person who prefers having some nice Mexicans mow your lawn or serve a a scotch and soda at club than some icky white person but that doesn't have nothing to do with nothing.
You characters are so out of out. We got whole tech industries that are hiring H-1B's for good, high paying jobs. We got entire universities where 50% of the post-graduate degrees are going to the foreign born. Needless to say, lots of native Americans would love to be professionals or work in good jobs in high-tech but they can't when companies will hire a Chinese or Indian for 2/3 the wage.
So, out-sourcing and job replacement isn't for icky white working class anymore.
Of course, if you're some rich guy over 55, then you got yours, fuck everyone else.
February 27, 2016 at 11:17 PM Delete
Are you suggesting they don't want to win?
I think the DNC is obviously very out of touch with their base. This whole election is a distorted "it's her turn aberration" foisted on the party. Talk about political market distortion! And just look at the damage wrought! Where is the next generation of D candidates who aren't just tribal blacks and hispanics with enormous chips on their shoulders? Obviously the left doesn't want to lose and they want to win fair and square. But I'm beginning to think that the DNC leadership is willing to cheat to win -- why else would they remain so blase and unconcerned about Hillary! I have similar misgivings about some republicans.
Obviously the left doesn't want to lose and they want to win fair and square.
Let me clarify -- I'm drawing a distinction between the voters and the leaders of both parties. I'm just old enough to remember that all Dem voters aren't automatically cheaters.
I think there is an elite vs rank and file problem in both parties at the same time. It's too bad that the Dems don't have an electable alternative like the Republicans have in Trump. Of course if you are April, they do.
...would you walk across that border knowing the government here was pretty much OK with it?
Nope. But I might if I believed that the land had been stolen from me.
Bags you're 10:22 comment is a revelation! As was your 10:15.
Thank you. I finally understand where you are coming from.
Yeah, its kinda nice when you're an old, well-to-do, white person who prefers having some nice Mexicans mow your lawn or serve a a scotch and soda at club than some icky white person but that doesn't have nothing to do with nothing.
That cohort -- the Mitt cohort -- is thankfully dying out. Whites will become just another minority. They will be disadvantaged at first, thanks to their parents, but they will eventually hold their own.
As for the bit about lazy millennials -- my son (b. 1998) just got an ROTC scholarship and manages to work 15-20 hours per week at a local pizza joint. He never really did the lawn work stuff because it's too undercut by the cheaper Mexicans.
I am my own gardener. I know bags has ripped on that before as an utter waste of time and market efficiency, but, I have to say there are other benefits besides monetary ones.
I'd walk across the border, and I don't believe you would't. The future of my family comes before the unenforced rules of a nation that is virtually welcoming me with open arms. We break our own nation's rules all the time, and get away with it. That's why Trump won't release his taxes.
I was my own gardener for a long time, until I talked an unemployed American friend into starting a gardening business. He did, he's doing fine, and no immigrants are involved. Doing your own gardening may be taking jobs away from Americans. After Trump the savior changes nothing about your complaints, what will you do?
You know what's so discouraging and disenheartening about the Mexican migration problem, bags? It's the endless, boundless nature of the problem. And then Mexico just becomes a conduit for a chain of poverty and misery extending down to Cape Horn. Bless you for personally sanctifying the migration. You've set a lot in motion. You should join forces with Pope Francis.
In other news, I've quit Twitter tonight. I wasn't never much there anyway recently, but enjoyed the good times very much. I'm not going to delete my account -- just sort of walk away.
You're arguing vociferously in favor of a man who broke his own nation's immigration rules, but you wouldn't break those of a foreign nation to save your family from terminal destitution. Really? I guess that's honorable.
Bags just told us there is nothing we can do. That our laws and our borders don't mean shit. He seems to be fine with that. So vote Rubio and learn to speak Spanish.
"Bless you for personally sanctifying the migration. You've set a lot in motion. "
Me? I'm complaining about how we do that as a Nation and then blame the poverty stricken individuals for it. Take some responsibility. They are our laws, not theirs. Now we are going to build and ineffective wall, so we don't have to do the easy smart thing and just enforce our own damned laws. It's like advertising free donuts and then bludgeoning people who take one, and then hiring an armed guard, but never taking down the stupid "free donuts" sign".
You're arguing vociferously in favor of a man who broke his own nation's immigration rules, but you wouldn't break those of a foreign nation to save your family from terminal destitution.
I really don't see the alternative to Trump in others that you see: Rubio authored legislation to legalize the mass migration of millions; Cruz proposed solving American productivity problems by massively ramping-up H-1B visas for millions; Trump hired hundreds, maybe thousands of legal/illegal? immigrants.
There is a problem of scale here.
There is a problem of scale because in your zealotry, you are once again looking for purity. There needs to be a pejorative term for partisan purity in practical situations. Everything I know always comes out German.
Not coincidentally, all of my vociferous #NeverTrump followers are women.
It's like advertising free donuts and then bludgeoning people who take one, and then hiring an armed guard, but never taking down the stupid "free donuts" sign".
lololol ol
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