Byron York: "The big reason is honesty," said Lori Jagla, of Woodward, S.C. "The more I hear everyone else going, 'Isn't he going too far?' the more [I think], 'No, you just wait, you get into America, and it's not too far. It's what we're thinking.'"
"Because he's honest," said Nicki Cox, of Greer.
"Doesn't mince words," said Angela Griffin, of Spartanburg.
"I don't even care what his views are, I just care that there's a better chance that he's going to do what he says than the other guys," said Robert Daughenbaugh, of Mauldin. "I mean, you know they're all liars. End of story. They're all liars."
Many had supported mainstream Republican candidates for years and felt they had nothing to show for it. Trump is their opportunity to change course.
"I went into a couple of weeks' depression when Mitt Romney lost," said Doug Moore, of Greenville. "I'm just tired of the politicians. I'm tired of the establishment. I voted establishment for most of my life. I voted for both Bushes, I voted for Bob Dole, John McCain, Romney. I'm just ready for something different, somebody who'll actually get in there and make a change."
133 comments:
I do like that Trump is slapping the establishment in the face with a dead fish. Still, it's a democrat who is doing the slapping.
ot: Silly Sunday Morning LOL -
Word of the day: US Bank.
Example: When your kids are naughty US Bank em'.
***Come on Bernie supporters. You have to double your efforts to overcome the Clinton corruption/cheat machine.
Powerline's opinion:
Putting to one side the merits of what would be an utterly dispiriting contest, does anyone in his right mind seriously think that Donald Trump stands a chance of beating the Democratic nominee in a general election? I don’t, and I think Trump will take the Republican majorities in Congress down with him (UPDATE: not to mention the Supreme Court, of course).
First debate (when was that, way back in June?) I knew immediately. All the others represented one more round of the same old same old. The ship is listing and burning and they all expressed....nothing. Nothing in the way of alarm. Nothing in the way of we've gotta save the ship! No, just business as usual, the Dems had it for 8 years now it's our turn. Same policy wank blah blah blah. Trump said, "I will build a Wall." BAM! Finally. Something WE want. Something that speaks directly to OUR anxiety about WHAT'S HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY!!!
All the rest is irrelevant noise.
And by the way, what is the real reason Trump puts their noses out of joint, all the deep thinkers who can't abide the thought of a Trump presidency? He's vulgar. That's right, he's VULGAR, that's his great crime. That's how shallow the deep thinkers are.
Trump isn't a Democrat. Trump isn't a Republican. Trump isn't a politician. That right there in as few words that I can say, is why a lot of people like him. Including me. Yes, I'm also someone who has voted for Republicans and saw absolutely nothing from them that I liked. It's as if there is almost no difference between the two parties.
Trump (or any candidate) will get my support when they say what needs to be said about hillary.
"When I am president, if the FBI recommends charges against Hillary, My DOJ will respect that. If she is indicted, my justice department will not stand in the way."
or something like that...
They were pals and he won't fight her. If I'm wrong, drinks are on me.
I think what they are saying is they don't know much about any of them, but they bought the Trump hype. The dishonesty of Trump is on display daily, but like every other negative, it's ignored, spun, or glossed over. A long list of his dishonesty can be assembly very quickly, but we all know that won't change a single mind. It's not Trump that bothers me, it's the willingness to buy into the hype that is most disappointing. I saw the same thing with Obama fans, and see it today with the Hillary apologists. Facts are just tiny blemishes to slap a little plaster over as you build the imaginary man in your head, yet every blemish on the alternatives is a fatal flaw that immediately disqualifies them.
The disappointment is gonna be embarrassing, but never admitted.
If I'm wrong about Trump, and he turns out to be good, I'll be absolutely delighted, and I'll say so, but I don't see any reason to expect that.
bagoh20 said...I think what they are saying is they don't know much about any of them, but they bought the Trump hype.
The Rubios and other "establishment" Republicans are the ones who sold the hype and then actually proved they'd do nothing. Trump has no elective track record and people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And don't think that the same people wouldn't turn on Trump if he doesn't deliver something.
bags, remove Trump's name and insert any other person's name who is running now, and what you just said will still make sense.
I don't think Cruz sold any hype.
trump has said some horrible unkind things about Cruz and Ben Carson. Low-life bottom of the barrel utterances. I'm not really keen on his scorched earth nukes against fellow "conservatives" who are far more conservative than he is.
Who will Trump choose as a running mate? I think it will be Charlie Sheen.
Ricpic is right.. It is a class thing. That is what the "New York Values" thing is about as well. And the "reality show" thing.
It's the same bullshit when they tell you that they don't watch TV.
People talk about lies. Nobody lies as much as Rubio. Nobody.
Trump talks a lot. And nothing he has said is as bad as much of the stuff that is said about him everyday on every channel.
Look they are giving him a lot of crap because he didn't mention Bush. He gets crap no matter what he does. So he doesn't sweat it. Why should he?
AprilApple wrote I don't think Cruz sold any hype.
Well, there's his 180 turn on H-1B visas. He probably still thinks it's a "brilliant idea" but it's no longer politically expedient.
Look, Cruz has his plusses. But he has zero crossover appeal and worse chances against Hillary. Conservatives who support Trump are already triangulating against Hillary. Cruz's candidacy will die on the hill of ideological purity.
That said, I think it's important that Cruz stay in the Senate or possibly another branch which needs his lawyerly skills. Same for Rubio.
OK - One thing-- H-1B Visas.
Trump said this not long ago:
"The economy does better under the Democrats." "I like universal healthcare." "Hillary Clinton is a terrific woman. She's a really good person."
"You have to give them a path. You have 20 million, 30 million, nobody knows what it is. It used to be 11 million. Now, today I hear it’s 11, but I don’t think it’s 11. I actually heard you probably have 30 million. You have to give them a path, and you have to make it possible for them to succeed. You have to do that."
I'm just trying to figure out how one candidate gets clobbered for a flip flop, while the other candidate's flip flops are all groovy.
Maybe I'm missing it, but I do not see evidence that Trump will aggressively tackle Hillary. I think because they were pals and they have respect for each other in that historical crony *wink wink* way, he will go easy on her. I think Trump wouldn't mind a Hillary Clinton prezidense-see.
"Nobody lies as much as Rubio."
How does an honest person tell this lie repeatedly over many years (including on his official Senate biography) and when called on it resort to another fake Indian "family lore" lie?
The answer is that an honest person doesn't.
"The Rubios and other "establishment" Republicans are the ones who sold the hype and then actually proved they'd do nothing. Trump has no elective track record and people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt."
Rubio perhaps, but Cruz did more than anyone in recent memory against the establishment, and he did it at great political risk. That's why they hate him even more than Trump. Only Cruz told Iowans (In Iowa right before the primary there!) that ethanol subsidies were wrong. Trump pandered just like all the establishment cronies. Trump has been playing with and supporting and propping up the very establishment people you hate, especially the Democrat ones! See, that's what I mean. If some other candidate did any of that it would be disqualifying out of the gate with great disdain.
"And don't think that the same people wouldn't turn on Trump if he doesn't deliver something."
And do what? He's gonna tell you to shut up, because he won, and you voted for him, and his record was there to see if you cared to. And he'll be right. Oh, and he'll call you a loser, and he's not running for second term because you don't deserve him, and the job sucks.
"bags, remove Trump's name and insert any other person's name who is running now, and what you just said will still make sense."
Try it and see. Who else has a record exactly opposite of nearly everything he says now, or that can support things his fans hate like single payer, Hillary's a great SOS, personally hires hundreds of illegal aliens, pro open borders, thinks Obama is a good President, etc, etc, and yet he's still "our douche bag"? There is nothing like that for anyone else, other than Hillary or Obama. Who else gets that Tiger Beat treatment.
The question for me is, should Trump win and build the wall, will that alone make his presidency worth it?
Another president could neglect it, the way it's neglected now that there isn't one, but, depending upon how robust it's built, it could end up having a long lasting disincentivizing effect. In the end, I think that's what we are aiming for.
It's the kind of strategery that won the cold war. Create the mind of the other side that is just too much trouble to go up against it.
Of course if Trump wins and does not build a damned thing.... how more pissed can severely pissed people get?
And wasn't the Post oddly gentle with their "embellishes facts" take on his deliberate dishonesty.
" It is a class thing. That is what the "New York Values" thing is about as well."
I think you misunderstand what people outside mean by "New York values". To us it means being part of the corruption club, working inside the pay to play system, big city values of wealthy connected people. I know that everyone imagines themselves as outside the elite, even when they are taking a kick back, "it's just to feed my family".
Again - no one in the Trump camp seems to care about Trump's own recent past statements.
@Bags: There's also such a thing as "California values" as seen from outside the state. California is a de facto one-party state with little hope of ever changing. Its so-called "conservatives" are mainly interested in conserving their economic status quo. The rest of the country only envies our weather.
Are we riven yet?
Of course, within California, we think of "California values" as "San Francisco values."
"Of course if Trump wins and does not build a damned thing.... how more pissed can severely pissed people get?"
You know, much of it is already built. So he doesn't need to do much to pretend he did it. Besides who cares. You just pretend it doesn't matter because what? Rubio was gonna do better? See how easy that is.
I talk to illegal aliens all the time. It's freaking L.A. (northern Mexico). Trump is a common subject if they trust you. They fear a Trump Presidency but not the wall. They laugh about the wall. Say it will never work. "It will collapse from all the tunnels under it."
What they fear, is simple changes in the law that make it hard for them to live here. That's the wall they fear, and that's what they ask me about with great concern. It doesn't cost us a cent - it actually saves the citizens money. Simple political will in Congress with a conservative President to sign. Without that, the wall is just a speed bump that will depend on the unblemished competence of government maintenance and it's famous dedication to the American work ethic.
I think of California values as just simple stupidity trying to be grown up corruption, which in the end is even more destructive. Kind of like a todler with a loaded firearm.
And where did you ever see a California Conservative? We might be able to get them some protection as an endangered species. Maybe get their own water supply and protected habitat in Death Valley.
New: Hillary's secret Deals.
Does Donald approve? I mean - she lied.
"Other emails show Clinton seeming to personally lobby her former Democratic colleagues in the Senate to support free trade agreements (FTAs) with Colombia, Panama and South Korea. She had previously told voters she would work to block the Colombian and South Korean pacts."
Hillary Supported these trade deals, then insisted to voters the opposite. hmmmmm.
What a fuddy duddy editor that says this has too many characters. That's b.s. You dudes are speed readers.
Who wears evening red lipstick and a form fitting black dress and steps up to a national stage and spotlight to campaign when they are nine months pregnant and ready to pop?
* drums fingers* Cannot imagine it. But the very idea just blew me away.
Here is why Trump supporters dismiss all contradiction. This works for all contradiction. Think of it. Temporarily put yourself in it. Were you all in Denver I'd feel easier saying, do an out of body and transport. Are you there? Then you fell it foremost, that was then and this is now. Suddenly everything's clear.
Everything changed.
Everything.
The connection between all those concerns and the concerns of now have snapped. The two major parties spoken of have changed completely to be other entities entirely. Loyalty to them is sorely displaced. The country spoken about then is completely different country today and the value set applied then does not apply cleanly today. Loyalty to template is sorely displaced.
Also Google Earth.
You don't seem to accept this but very large swaths do. Trump supporters see the wealth of a nation concentrating in Washington. They also see all candidates save for this outrageous outlier attempting to assure them of satisfactory change by working their way up to and into Washington, by joining and engaging the beast from within.
The outlier slaps it around from the outside buying and selling bits of it at his pleasure. His supporters accept his being pissed off the way they are pissed off but he being billionaire can actually do something about it. Trumps son provided the best description, if you will have it. He said, my dad is a blue collar billionaire. That is the spot his supporters are connecting.
It's a glorious thing to behold.
It brings with it a NY vs Wash. thing, a weird East Coast prestige duality. New York is the finer, finest actually, global city, while Washington is top tier concentration of national and global power. Trump's candidacy throws juice to the electricity between two great cities. So then, allowing this view then as side element, I think I sense Trump supporters feeling some kind of glee with the prospect of empowering New York to beat the living shit out of Washington, to put it plainly as possible.
That is my understanding for whatever it's worth.
I'll make no attempt to change what happens, just observe what happens and try to understand it and observe it with tremendous satisfaction. I like all these people. Any will be fine with me.
I live in a city that is mostly Democrat voters and who just went for Bernie Sanders. That should give you a feel for the vibes around here.
In order to understand people in Denver politically you must allow for a great deal of acknowledged wackiness. They will tell you themselves they don't understand themselves. A woman told me this yesterday when I asked her, "Have you been following elections?"
"I try not to" as she raised from her desk and and got up and joined me to discuss her perceptions in the hallway. How very odd, a contradiction right off!
You would not believe the wandering path of political discovery she described as mostly Democrat-hearted. Too strangely slow on the uptake and too weirdly value-weighted and too pointless to recall for now, but I could if you like.
She's coming to dinner tomorrow.
And so is another black dude who I'm just beginning to know. Two new Denver political strangers for me to get to know and attempt to understand.
The thing is, I am the white adult male in these confabs of whom minorities are wary if I am to believe what I read online. While I am studying them for their values they are studying me. They really are very interested in my opinion. They want to know what I think. They value my opinion, that's why she rose from her desk. They're hoping my views align with theirs. They're hoping I'm not the typical white dude that they're made wary consistently. They're trying to understand too.
And the only thing I can really think about right now is what in the f will I have for dinner.
I still don't know.
See how values change so immediately? I have an immediate value challenge right now. Here's how that's solved. I go to the store wondering what in the f I'm going to prepare. No idea at all. Flatline. Zero. See what they have on the spot that looks good. Looks inspiring. Ideas flow. Pick one or two or ten. Purchase. Return. Prepare. Success. We three are going to have fun tomorrow. One of them wants to vote for Hillary but cannot. The other one I have no idea but it's sure to come out. We'll be having too much fun to fuss with the camera so too bad for me, no photos probably. Oh. Maybe I'll have them play with the camera and show them what lenses do and get photos that way. I don't know. We'll see. In the meantime, man, my carpet is spotless. You should see it, ping, ping, ping, shines.
Is Trump gong to hit Hillary on her support for late term abortion?
Nope.
***Come on Bernie supporters. You have to double your efforts to overcome the Clinton corruption/cheat machine.
We're doing our best. I'd given a at least a few hundred, usually on the heels of a strong headwind in NH, or at other points earlier. The Democrats are absolutely horrible. I've given them an earful when they hit me up from their nasty senatorial campaign fund. When they start reading a script, I won't tolerate it. But they don't stop calling. I've taken to simply insulting them from the moment I can tell how uninterested they are in hearing the voice of their voters and donors - lately even getting crass in the way that you guys know that only I can, just because I'm sick of it, and have no stomach for tolerating the thought of Lady Stalin in there for four years, let alone eight. They want to call everything sexism, fine. I'm a voter, you want me to be a donor, this is how the fuck it's going to work. I have NO respect for someone that detached from the truth, who sees personal and sexual insult in everything and only cares about power and groupthink. So fuck them and fuck their phone banking and fuck their Shillarying Hillary Shilling. I'm done with it.
I think about the way you guys say Obama set back race relations... Hilary is 10 times worse, the relations that she sets back. The funny thing is, the young ladies don't even agree with it. Team HRC scratched their empty heads in bewilderment at how it was that young women had identities that were complex and interesting and HONEST enough to go beyond gender alone, and punished her by a margin of 4 to 1 at the polls. Hillary and her people have a worse understanding of people and the electorate than a caveman does of quantum physics.
Bernie's problem, if I may, seems to be one of not starting soon enough. He gathers momentum, narrowing Lady Stalin's 20 point lead in Nevada to 5 points. But the stupid Dumbocrats think this vindicates her. He's got some GOOD authentic black voices joining, but it doesn't appear to be happening soon enough. And now we're heading into the South, where those shills love their house mistresses.
It's going to get bad. What a wonderful moment and a wonderful time that we let slip away, like a butterfly through our fingertips. Hillary's administration will be the most painful I've ever had to endure, and you know I'm no fan of establishment Republicans. I hope that we will splinter off and form a new party - I don't even care who's in it or what it's for... as long as it builds on articulating EVERYTHING that's wrong with the donkeys. We will count down the days until her first disaster, and then her second, and on and on and on. What a catastrophe. All that's been royally fucked up and still people won't learn. It looks like this is just another one that we'll have to sit back and watch in realtime, powerless to say anything but, "I told you so."
Jackasses.
AprilApple's comment is so on target and to the point here that it needs repeated:
Trump: "You have to give them a path. You have 20 million, 30 million, nobody knows what it is. It used to be 11 million. Now, today I hear it’s 11, but I don’t think it’s 11. I actually heard you probably have 30 million. You have to give them a path, and you have to make it possible for them to succeed. You have to do that."
April: "I'm just trying to figure out how one candidate gets clobbered for a flip flop, while the other candidate's flip flops are all groovy."
How can Trump fans, who seem to be primarily motivated by his supposed immigration toughness, find this to be just fine, and Rubio's flip flop makes him absolutely hated for it. And Cruz's H1-B position is certainly nothing like this level of immigration dishonesty.
Can someone here explain this? It's like asking feminists why they think the GOP has a war on women, but don't seem upset about Islamist treatment of women. Total cognitive dissonance. Is there any suspicion at all that Trump might be playing you?
Does not matter.
If you are truly a Conservative, at this point in history, there is one thing that matters above all else: Scalia's death.
If you are truly Conservative, at this point in history, it is not enough to simply be "anti-establishment," you are not "just ready for something different, somebody who'll actually get in there and make a change."
If you are truly Conservative, at this point in history, the balance of the Supreme Court matters above all else and only one remaining candidate is capable of 1. beating Hillary in November and then, 2. as President, appoint to the court the person who can come closest to a Justice Scalia who will 3. preserve the conservative balance on the Court for the next 30 years.
If you are truly a Conservative, every other issue comes second to that.
That candidate is not Donald J. Trump.
So bags the illegals fear Trump. You say that like it is a bad thing.
I can't think of a better reason to vote for Trump.
Thank you for posting that.
R&B,
What do you think about the fact that Bernie is killing Hillary in the popular vote but still only gets 70 delegates to her 502? Al Gore needs to get his legal team involved. Why do Democrats even have a primary?
Trump supporters are phony conservatives.
ConINO's.
True Conservatives, in our lifetime, the chance will not come again. It is now a time to focus. Time to choose.
Phony Conservatives, vote Trump, vote Cruz, vote Hillary.
What do you think about the fact that Bernie is killing Hillary in the popular vote but still only gets 70 delegates to her 502?
Every Bernie supporter/"preferrer"thinks the way the super delegate nonsense works is messed up. We are not for an anti-democratic delegate count whatsoever.
Al Gore needs to get his legal team involved. Why do Democrats even have a primary?
Each party does. But at least the Republicans IIRC are focusing on moving to primaries over caucuses. The caucuses are where the opportunity for corruption and vote manipulation is strongest, if I remember correctly.
I think one of the key things that Trump said in his victory speech last night was about military procurement. He said he would give the military the tools they needed and wanted and not force them to accept what the special interests force their bought and paid for politicians to give them. Trump is not a hostage to the special interest that own rent boy Rubio.
Troop, I'm not trying to fool anybody or leave things out just because they might not help my case. I don't fear the truth - the whole truth.
Like everyone else, illegals don't know what he will do. What they fear are things he never said anything about. They laugh at his actual proposals, just like most other people. They fear the same pretend Trump that you believe in.
I bet none of them even know he said what is quoted above. If they did, he would win the illegal vote. They would know that he's actually their douche bag too. Get the word out.
I saw David Gergen on CNN say that the Republicans need super delegates because the choice of a candidate should not be in the hands of the people.
That is the anti-Trump position in a nutshell. It's an election. You have to win. South Carolina is a heavily conservative and evangelical state. And Cruz couldn't win. If he can't win there then where is he going to win?
The most hideous outrageous deal breaking Trump quotes garner zero response.
He is the biggest flip flopping phony in the entire race, next to Hillary. There's another flip flop: Trump used to adore Hillary. /No one cares.
correction:
If Trump is a bigger liar than Rubio, and he is, I'd rather have the guy who consistently beats all the democrats in all the national pols.
As Trump says -I'm tired of losing.
Yet he key point is that they fear him bags. They laugh at everyone else. They laugh at our laws. Our language. At assimilating into our culture. That's California values right there.
They need a good dose of fear.
David Rodham Gergen(D) (As Rush aptly calls him) is a Hillary-dictator supporting douche bag of his own.
*Shorter David Rodham Gergen(D)* - The GOP should cheat and go over the heads of stupid voters just like Gruber and Hillary/DNC.
"He said he would give the military the tools they needed and wanted and not force them to accept what the special interests force their bought and paid for politicians to give them."
Who the hell is gonna disagree with that? Such courage.
He also said the bolded quote above. Can someone hold up a sign when he's telling us what he really thinks.
Hey April Trump is the only one who went after Hillary and got her to shut up about her sexist bullshit.
Your post is nonsense. Trump is not a conservative. His supporters know this. He is a populist. Who will put America first. That is enough for us.
Deal with it.
The difference is he didn't take any special interest money. Not like Rent Boy Rubio.
I have to admit one good thing about Trump: He gets Lem more hits than any other candidate. I'm sure that was his plan all along. He has always loved Lem like son.
Hey Troop. On numerous occasions I gave Trump credit for his response to Hillary about her hypocritical sexist BS. A thing of beauty and more please. *crickets* I applauded him enthusiastically.
Still waiting for a response on Trump's past nonsense.
"The economy does better under the Democrats." "I like universal healthcare." "Hillary Clinton is a terrific woman. She's a really good person."
"You have to give them a path. You have 20 million, 30 million, nobody knows what it is. It used to be 11 million. Now, today I hear it’s 11, but I don’t think it’s 11. I actually heard you probably have 30 million. You have to give them a path, and you have to make it possible for them to succeed. You have to do that."
-- Donald Trump.
Special Interest Money? What was all that money Trump gave to democrats for years and years in NY? Not special interest. Trump interest.
I can tick off the things I like about Trump. Trust that he is who he says he is, is not one of them.
The thing to realize about Trump (and I think April's objections to him are more honest than others), is that no matter what he says, no matter how outlandish it is, or how dishonest you think it is, he at least has the courage and independence to say it. Honesty (which some commenters don't even want from the politicians, let's face it) doesn't mean jack shit unless you have independence and the courage to say whatever you think it is. And that's why Trump clobbers his competition.
People with money who want the establishment need to ask themselves why their market research is so shitty. Would they THINK of producing and selling a product that no one would buy? Probably not. But they seem to have no problem telling the voters what they should prefer. What makes them think they can do this?
If you're interested in actual market research into the group that, last I checked, still has a voice as relevant as any shopper, just ask me what's going on. It's astounding how far removed some establishment/elite preferrers are from the people who actually get to do their own shopping on the matter. Spectacularly astounding.
Scalia's death.
Balance of the Court for the next 30+ years.
Conserve the original intentions of our Constitution.
(Every. Thing. Else.)
Next thing the establishment elites will sell us: A brand new and IMPROVED! Cruz and Rubio! Yes. Here it is! They slice, they dice, they sprinkle it with spice! They will do anything you want. Now, with new voter listening capabilities. These versions actually have ears and brains to HEAR the voters before constructing a position! We listened to you, and now we got you what you want!
But see. Even that's phony.
As I said, voters are consumers, the politicians are either products or services. No capitalist would think of saying that the consumers need to conform to what the products or services can do. They would improve until they get a product or service that meets market demand.
But the elites don't want that. They are so free market, until they tell the voting market to shove it up its ass.
It's not going to work any longer.
I could learn to ignore Trumps past if he would fight Hillary like Cruz fights her.
The AD Cruz made mocking Hillary with rap/pop culture reference/ beating up her computer in a field - absolute political genius. I cannot see Trump doing that. Trump saves all his anger and energy for the GOPe. 'Carly is ugly, Carson is a psychopath, everyone hates Cruz...' Trump is too easy on Hillary. Just like Bernie is too easy on her. I think it's a conspiracy.
ELITE: "It's my electorate. I bought it."
VOTER: "No you didn't. You bought the politician. I still get to choose who I want."
ELITE: "Maybe I can buy you off too. For very cheap."
VOTER: "Don't think so. See that voting booth and lever over there? It's open to me."
ELITE: Scratches head.
A free market won't protect you from buying a Yugo if you are hellbent on buying one no matter what information is provided.
I watched the Bernie Madoff movie last week. Those who invested with him and lost everything refused to believe the smarty pants analysts that told them his returns were impossible. Even when the numbers were shown in black and white, they just refused be left out of that special man's unique abilities. They fought and jockeyed for the opportunity to be part of it no matter what the haters said. He was different. He had the magic, and the haters were just jealous, trying to get the investors for themselves, which was true, but the haters were also right about Madoff, and the facts were right there for all to see.
AprilApple said...
Special Interest Money? What was all that money Trump gave to democrats for years and years in NY? Not special interest. Trump interest.
Exactly. Precisely. Trump did what was in his self interest. All the time. Every time. He will do the same thing for America. Because his ego and self interest will be tied up in that. He won't worry about the illegals Mexicans like Rubio. He won't worry about the Muslims like Obama does. He will worry about Americans.
R & B said..
I think about the way you guys say Obama set back race relations... Hilary is 10 times worse...
She is.
Trump will savage Hillary like nobodies business. He already has practice destroying an old woman who is running against him.
Didn't you see what he did to Jeb?
He gutted him like a flounder.
Not really. Jeb was a dead fish rotting on the sidewalk. Trump just kicked him into the gutter.
If you are right about Trump, that he is this amazing super-hero, well, I will be astonished and I will happily eat my words. I remain highly skeptical. He better start hitting Hillary. What's the delay? Too many opportunities are lost, and it looks fishy. Smells fishy. Fishy.
I am proud that GOp voters rejected the Bush family dynasty.
Jeb isn't a bad man - but enough already.
Trump saves all his anger and energy for the GOPe
And wisely so. You fight the enemy that you are engaged with NOW and put all your energy into that defeat. Sure he can throw a few wacks Hillary's way once in awhile. Trump's however the main enemy he needs to defeat NOW is the GOPe. The prize which is the Republican nomination.
Prioritizing your battles and conserving your energy. You don't fight on all fronts at all times. Smart.
If/when Trump is the Rep candidate, you can expect him to focus like a laser on whoever is the Dem candidate. It may be Hillary. It might not. So fight that battle when it is important.
The Giants, led by Mel Ott, began to come out of their dugout to take their warm-up. Without missing a beat, I said, "Take a look at that Number Four there. A nicer guy never drew breath than that man there." I called off his players’ names as they came marching up the steps behind him, "Walker Cooper, Mize, Marshall, Kerr, Gordon, Thomson. Take a look at them. All nice guys. They’ll finish last. Nice guys. Finish last." I said, "They lose a ball game, they go home, they have a nice dinner, they put their heads down on the pillow and go to sleep. Poor Mel Ott, he can’t sleep at night. He wants to win, he's got a job to do for the owner of the ball club. But that doesn’t concern the players, they’re all getting good money." I said, "you surround yourself with this type of player, they’re real nice guys, sure—‘Howarya, Howarya’ and you’re going to finish down in the cellar with them. Because they think they’re giving you one hundred percent on the ball field and they’re not. Give me some scratching, diving, hungry ballplayers who come to kill you. Now, Stanky's the nicest gentleman who ever drew breath, but when the bell rings you’re his mortal enemy. That's the kind of a guy I want playing for me." That was the context. To explain why Eddie Stanky was so valuable to me by comparing him to a group of far more talented players who were—in fact—in last place.
(Leo Durocher "Nice Guys Finish Last" University of Chicago Press 1975)
I hope I'm right when I say Trump will chase Hillary down like a hungry wolf after a sick cow.
My inclination is not to trust anyone who wants to be president and he's no exception; he just happens to be flaunting the most power now.
You really think Trump went through all this just to hand it to Hillary? That is something they planned?
You sound like a lunatic.
All the stuff he said about Hillary was to blow smoke up her ass. To get her to do stuff for him. That is what you have to do in business. You have to deal with the people in power and the more you puff them up the better disposed they are. Plus flattery doesn't cost you anything.
I never doubt that Trump can win the nomination and even the election. My goldfish could beat Hillary. That's why we should take the opportunity to do what we have failed to for over 30 years: nominate a conservative. If one can't win this time, then the nation deserves what it gets. I'm not afraid to ask the people to make that decision again after all these decades of running "electable moderates" that win or lose still moved us left.
Not planned, Trooper. Just a happy default ending.
Trump has the stamina and political will to fight the dreaded ugly Carly!, but not enough left over to knock his old pal Hillary down.
He could knock Rodham down hard right now. What is he waiting for?
Perhaps he will fight her later, perhaps not. We shall see. I'm making a prediction that he won't. Believe me, I hope I am wrong.
The idea that we are going to let the most corrupt political figure in living history attain the top level of power is too much to take.
I want to beat her. We are honestly sending her pal to run against her? A man who was upset with Barack for not selecting Hillary as his running mate. She is a power-mad sociopath with a family whose entire fortune is built on government favors and backroom quid-pro-quo crony graft. The Clintons need the money. That is the only reason she is running. Who will pay the Clintons if she is no longer in the power structure?
What a Nightmare.
"Doesn't mince words", is what seems to connect with a lot of people. and that means he drives the PC crowd nuts.
Trooper York said...
You really think Trump went through all this just to hand it to Hillary? That is something they planned?
You sound like a lunatic.
Not sure about the lunatic part, but all the people who said he'd go soft on her have been proven wrong.
All the stuff he said about Hillary was to blow smoke up her ass. To get her to do stuff for him. That is what you have to do in business
My opinion from the start. The guy is running a business where he has to deal with the Cuomos, Chuckie Schumer, the Mob, and the Ozark Mafia.
PS For those who think Rubio can be trusted, another nail in the coffin.
Looks like his people were making calls before the vote saying Jeb! had already dropped out.
'Throw the ring into the fire! What are you waiting for!' *so much temptation*
You are really silly. He casually sideswiped Hillary and did more damage to her election plan than anyone else. He stopped the war on women meme in it's tracks. He has to concentrate on winning the nomination first. So why waste resources on Hillary until he knows she will be the nominee.
You know what? He might think she is the easiest one to beat so he will ignore her until it is time to mark her up.
Plus he is a counter puncher. He marked her up when she called him a sexist. He will do the same when she directly attacks him when it is one on one.
All in good time. First he has to touch up Marco McGreevey Rubio.
Thanks ed. I'm only mostly a lunatic. ;)
Like I said, Troop. We each have our predictions. I've been watching Trump hit Hillary with kid gloves. I've cheered him when he kicked it up a notch. he needs to kick it up again. It's time.
I think the one thing we can all agree on is that Trump will not be afraid to be nasty. Just give it a little more time. He can't let the primary voters think he thinks it is already in the bag and he can ignore them for the general election. He has to win the nomination first.
Plus how about Melania as First Lady.
Yummie.
Trump does have a nice good looking family. Ivanka is impressive.
Secretary of State.
It is worth asking why Trump chose to attack Republicans that were so far behind that they were no threat to him rather than attacking the Democrats. It turned those candidates' supporters into enemies when if he didn't do that, they were most likely to end up in his column when their candidate dropped out. I don't think it was smart, and it leaves me suspicions about just how much real antipathy he has for Clinton.
I think he was surprised by his early popularity. It still seems possible to me that he originally intended to be a spoiler to help Hillary, but after seeing that he could actually win, decided to go for it. If so, I think he will still try to beat her, but I'm not sure how tough he'll be on her.
Thank you, Bagoh. That's exactly how I see it. Exactly.
Left with:
Hillary - a Hillary fan
Trump - a Hillary fan
The media - a Hillary fan
"Trump did what was in his self interest. All the time. Every time. He will do the same thing for America. "
Every President wants to look good. They all have huge egos, and people around them puff them up even more. But, sometimes what's good for the nation is not inline with you looking good. Obama is the poster child for this. He makes bad deals and policies with short term horizons and long term disaster so he can say he at least accomplished something knowing that when it blows up later it will be some other President's problem, and they get 90% of the blame after he bathed in the glory for years.
I would expect Trump to do things like force a long term bad deal for Israel/Palestine so he can claim he did the impossible in the middle east. It's kind of his M.O. with the bankruptcies, and the whole Atlantic City debacle. Promise, promise, hype, hype, then cut and run personally intact.
Boy bags you are really digging deep. You are criticizing Trump for hitting his Republican rivals to drive them out of the race. What is he supposed to do? Just go after Hillary and let the attacks against him go unanswered. He is called a fascist, a racist, a sexist and a demagogue every hour on the hour. You have to win the primaries first. He has won two out of three so far. So I think his strategy is working pretty good so far.
Or are you measuring it like Karl Rove and Fox and calling Rent Boy Rubio the winner every time he comes in second or third?
Carly's face must have really hit him where it hurts. Every other candidate except Carson attacked Hillary more than Trump did. I'm thinking he's just scared of her. She has the more powerful lower body.
"He has won two out of three so far."
I don't get all juicy about a Democrat beating Republicans.
Gosh darn it. Little E just spun out, hit the wall and is out of the race.
Tough weekend for legacies.
Reading between the lines, it appears that the boss in Madison has decided to support the cutest candidate again.
Nah. If you want cutest, you gotta go here.
I know. It is third place finishes that get you wet.
It is worth asking why Trump chose to attack Republicans that were so far behind that they were no threat to him rather than attacking the Democrats.
Mam, you guys have no sense of strategy,do you? He is attacking his immediate foes. The people who present an IMMEDIATE threat to him. These guys and one gal who are running against him for the same position. Nominee of the party. Even the under card represents a threat to Trump because they are still in the game and what they say about him can still be news and used against him.
It is a waste of time to spend much energy on those who are not even in the game yet. That new game, the run for the Presidency, hasn't even begun yet.
He took a few swipes at Hillary and at Bill that really stung and hurt her campaign. If she does turn out to be the nominee.....then expect the game to ramp up.
As I said, you don't fight your enemies on ALL fronts AlL at the same time. You pick your battles and strategically use your resources. Save your ammunition for the final battles.
I don't think Trump has to smash 'em bust 'em as his custom when it comes to dealing blows to Hillary.
You all noticed and we all commented already on one tiny little bark, a yip, and stopped Bill Clinton cold. You recall all Trump said was, "Don't get me started or you won't like I must say." Boom. Challenge ended just like that.
Same-o samo-o with Hillary. He has only mention she's under two FBI investigations and that cannot be deflected as partisan crap. Not when it's Trump pointing out the obvious facts too difficult for Hillary voters to face straight on.
Many, a good very many would like to abandon Hillary and would like to actually consider voting for Trump precisely because he is so much like them, not a Republican. But cannot because he scares them. They would if they could but cannot bring themselves to. I'm not making this up. I'm listening. Who knows what they will end up doing, they don't know themselves, what we do know is the entire thing on both sides is 100% disrupted and that is a matter for rejoicing.
Now goddamnit, start fucking REJOICING !
The only votes she specifically gets, the only votes, are desiccated old 2nd wave, sex-hating/men-hating feminists who are in their sixties or older and feel a huge grudge against every dude in the office who made a pass at them or whatever. They feel her election would "teach" all those equally old and decrepit men a thing or two. Like this is what our country needs right now. That's her only constituency, and her only selling point. Of course she gets hangers-on among the Spanish speaking and black communities, but those are the loyalists who don't know any better and would still vote for any Democrat anyway.
So while I have my concerns about Trump, I think you are absolutely right to note how quickly he shut her shit down. She's an Amazonian Gender Warrior. He said she got "schlonged" by Obama in 2008. Crass. Hilarious. Effective. This is the only thing that rattles her, and unfortunately most people are going to be sympathetic enough by the jerk of their knees to say, "Go easy on the woman!" and give her the benefit of the doubt every time she pulls an electoral H.R. move and cries foul. As if the media is one giant ineffective human resources department. Trump didn't play. He said, I'm going to hit you in the only place in which you're capable of feeling hurt - your bullshit pretension to any femininity, and see how it feels. She wept like a baby and put out the obligatory appeal to white knights everywhere, and the spectacle faded without any blowback onto Trump whatsoever. If he didn't consciously know what he was doing his subconscious sure as hell did.
And unfortunately that's the most potent way of getting her. It's her - as Triumph the Insult Comic Dog said - "Achilles Cankle".
So I think you have a point. Don't you dare underestimate her ability to shame and blame the electorate and a somnolent, supine media into sticking up for the poor battered woman image of the presidential race and guilt-tripping people into thinking they're "bad" for not defending her and voting for her - no matter how horrible an actual person she really is. And unless something that disruptive is done about it, it WILL work.
I don't get all juicy about a Democrat beating Republicans.
You really aren't getting it. He's not a Democrat. He's a politician. And a very natural and effective one, at that. Much better than any of his challengers.
He is doing what he needs to do.
DBQ,
He alienated other Republican voters he will need, and he did it for nothing, because their candidates were not a threat. They just weren't. He made enemies out of potential allies for one simple reason - he doesn't think before he acts out. He can't control himself. That is not a good impulse for a world leader running the most powerful military the world has ever seen. He has been in a position of cock-sure authority his entire life, where he never had to control his impulses, because he couldn't be fired.
If you didn't feel compelled to defend everything he does, and I mean everything, you would not be blinded to his knee jerk bad impulses. You don't say hey, maybe that was not the best way to go, or that could have been handled better. No, everything is brilliant and nessessary, and Trump people are determined to find some way to make everything he does just that. It's one of the ancient Achilles heals of democracy.
R&B, You don't have to take my word for it.
Trump says he's Democrat, and just a few month ago. And the farther back you go, the more you and him loved the same things and the same people.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/politics/donald-trump-election-democrat/
That's just not true bags. Trump says a lot of stupid stuff. He does turn off some Republican voters. But in the general he will pick up a bunch of other voters that are out of the reach of Cruz or Rubio.
Why don't I hear you picking apart Rubio or Cruz about some of the nonsense they spout?
I certainly don't approve of everything Trump says. If anything I don't think he is hard enough on the Muslims or the criminal element. But in the end I know he is not afraid of offending people to get the job done. His job here is to get elected. He seems to be doing pretty good so far.
And it is driving Karl Rove, Charles Wheel Chair Guy, Jonah Iceberg/Goldberg, George Ignore the Peoples Will and you bat shit crazy.
I must admit that has been very entertaining.
Plus Melania. And Ivanka.
Just getting Moosechelle off my screen is reason enough to vote Trump. Just sayn'
I have no idea where Bags got his ideas about politics from, but they seem to have no basis in reality.
Go ahead and call Trump a "Democrat" as if that's some sort of attack against him and a way of helping the other Republicans who will insure Hillary's election.
Maybe there's solace in that for you though, as Hillary's a "hawk" and grew up a Goldwater girl in a Republican family.
Perhaps you will end up getting just the sort of Republican you seem to want. A Hillary Republican.
How can you be so oblivious?
Of course, voters in contested states such as Colorado or Virginia who take their civic rights and responsibilities seriously don't have the same luxuries of clowning, stupidity, and shallowness as do voters in, say, New York or California. So there's that.
Trump is a Trojan Horse. He will go into the tank for Hillary in the general. Smart folks here have discussed some of the tells.
Aren't you a registered Dem, Bags? I'm pretty sure I read that once here.
Why don't I hear you picking apart Rubio or Cruz about some of the nonsense they spout?"
Because nobody in here is making crazy claims about them and explaining everything they do as genius level chess. When someone starts saying that Cruz is really a male model with an incredibly hot ass, I'll chime in to disagree.
bagoh20 said...DBQ, He alienated other Republican voters he will need, and he did it for nothing, because their candidates were not a threat. They just weren't.
Geez Louise and whoopie shit. The anti-Trumpers practice alienation against "trumpbots" on a daily basis. Some of the Republican candidates ape them.
"Aren't you a registered Dem, Bags?"
Yes, since I was 18. I'm lazy, and the Dem propaganda I get is more hilarious. I'm ideologically a libertarian with a big stick.
You're still being lazy, though. You're refusing to actually think through the consequences of what you want to happen.
And there is no such thing as "libertarian with a big stick."
I posted the reason why on the other thread.
America never had a powerful military tradition until FDR, the great socialist.
Even in the Civil War, it took forever for the union to conscript troops and a force size powerful enough to quell an insurrection.
Only a fool thinks a government big enough to take out any army abroad whoever we want will not be big enough to do the same to anyone back home, let alone with any concern for that person's "liberties."
There has never been a military empire devoted above all else to running the world's security welfare, as Bags wants us to do, that didn't devolve into a recriminating, corrupt tyranny of some sort.
But Bags hates history.
So let's repeat it.
Ohio, Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, Virginia, and Florida. Those are the states that will determine who wins the White House in November. So far, Trump has under-performed in the caucus or primary of 2 of those 7 states while Rubio has over-performed
And, not to put too fine a point on it, the next POTUS will likely make 2 to 4 Supreme Court appointments.
R&B,
Trolling is so 2005.
I love you guys, but my ol'lady, the Trumpette, is giving me shit for talking to you guys all day. I told her that Trump would just call her a loser and keep talking. Now I have to put a band aid on this lip and say goodbye for now. The feels are so strong with the Trumpers.
Who is saying that Trump is making genius level moves bags? Certainly not me. I am saying he is speaking to the concerns of the average American. Both Republicans and Democrats. That is why he is popular. Not with the ideologues. Not with the intelligentsia that have an agenda to secure their rice bowl. Not with the consultant class.
If Cruz was going to win he had to win South Carolina. It was very conservative. Very evangelical. Lots of vets who were supposed to be mortally insulted by what Trump said about Bush and Iraq. And Cruz lost. Even he came in behind the low spark of the High Heeled Boy. So what makes you think he can win jack shit?
Thinking that Trump is in it to give the election to Hillary is conspiracy nuttiness of Art Bell level crazy.
Nobody is going to go through all of the this crap to hand over the prize and look like a loser. It is ludicrous in the extreme.
I swear they must be putting something in the cheese in Wisconsin these days. Yeeesh.
"So what makes you think [Cruz] can win jack shit?"
He can't.
Only Rubio can beat Hillary in November.
The evangelical conservatives who actually go to church at least once a week voted for Rubio.
They do not and will not vote for Trump, Cruz, (and of course, Hillary or Bernie). They do not trust any of those 4.
Especially phony Trump.
Who is saying that Trump is making genius level moves bags?
Politically, what he's doing is working and is good because, as the whizbang Breitbartian Shapiro kid says, character arguments have to be won before policy arguments even matter.
Trump is the only one with the courage to say what he wants to say.
Is it honest?
It doesn't matter. People will not trust that you even can be honest if they can't trust that you have the courage of your convictions. And there is a good reason for that.
Bag seems to have trouble getting this. So he makes jokes instead.
People are tired of this country being turned into a joke.
White evangelical or white born-again Christians
Bago:
"He alienated other Republican voters he will need, and he did it for nothing, because their candidates were not a threat. They just weren't. He made enemies out of potential allies for one simple reason - he doesn't think before he acts out."
If memory serves, he went after people experiencing a rise in popularity at the time, e.g. he went after Carson, calling him a psychopath, or whatever, when Carson was trending. It would be interesting to compare the polls to the times he went into insult mode, like saying Rubio sweats a lot. He went after Cruz...Canadian, cheating Carson out of votes...when Cruz won Iowa. Whack-a-mole, basically.
Whack-a-mole, basically.
And if anyone should like whack-a-mole, it's Bags, who never saw an opportunity for foreign intervention security welfare around the world he didn't like.
Hillary and Lynch are already stacking the deck
AprilApple said...Hillary and Lynch are already stacking the deck
February 22, 2016 at 8:33 AM
Well that news (if it gets out) will give Trump Tower all the ceiling it needs.
If Trump is for real.
The GOPe haters don't trust NRO (or anyone) anymore. Anti-Trump heretics!
News is sort of out. Hack MSM will never report. Drudge linked.
133 comments. Woohoo!
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