Friday, June 6, 2014
Bad Moves
I just wanted to say that I think it was a bad move on Lem's part to squelch further discussion on this 380+ comment thread. I think Fr. Fox has done a remarkable job fending for himself, mostly against Meade. I mean, I think Meade was losing the argument in that thread, and it's important that people make arguments and lose them in free discourse.
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463 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 463 of 463President-Mom-Jeans said...
"Since Lem isn't responding to repeated questioning, I'm going to assume he is covering for you, and take appropriate actions."
Oh no, Br'er Mom-Jeans, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the briar patch of appropriate actions!!
Yuck it up, lawn bitch.
You are nice and popular over at The Isthmus, I wonder if there are any enterprising young reporters there who might be interested in a story of hypocrisy.
Be sure to tell them that you "forgot" what you posted and deleted.
Stick with that line.
IRhythm and Balls said...
It's common knowledge that he was a deserter
It is not established that he is a deserter, technically 30 days off base in the absence of any other evidence. And he has not be classified as a deserter. He had apparently wandered off the reservation previously and always came back.
Frustratingly, I feel some responsibility to see the Bergdahls adequately defended although I have little in common with them besides a shared humanity. I can't stand the way that half-truths filter into our consciousness through repetition in the media, social and mainstream.
Perhaps some of the other legal faculty at Wisconsin as well, if there is one thing they can't stand, its bigotry towards homosexuals.
Michael Haz said...
Although perhaps I'm confused. Was that statement one of condemnation or approval?
I have no moral views, I am simply an empty vessel through which the media passes unfiltered.
ARM, you respond to Fox as if he's much more dangerous than he is.
He's just a petty bureaucrat. Not much more. Yes, his poor understandings of issues important to us nowadays are dangerous when applied more broadly, but he is simply the Church's equivalent of a notary. It doesn't excuse what he does, but puts it (and his responses) in perspective.
With that in mind, you might want to consider that what he's doing isn't exactly slander, but something that the people who wrote the books he loves so much also found wrong - just in lighter shades.
To that end, describing him as "Talebearer Fox" or "Gossipmongerer Fox" really does sum things up more accurately. Remember, he is not very wise to the ways of the world. And being unwise to the world really does give rise to an active imagination.
Likening his approach to it, therefore, to that of teenage girls, is more appropriate. He already shares their misperceptions of and perhaps even their narrow experiences with, sex. So to sum up his understanding of effective and ethically mature communication as one equivalent to theirs really sqaures the circle.
Hey, LEM...when are you going to put your new "partner" on the masthead?
R&B, I would not have agreed with this sentiment at the start of this thread but now I see you possess the greater wisdom.
I am a bit of a sucker for all things spiritual. I am not a believer but I would like to believe that there are believers out there who are both better and happier. I am a believer in believers. I need to rethink this. Maybe they are all just assholes like the rest of us.
The problem with the discussion on religion nowadays is it presumes any effectiveness at all in traditions and intellectual approaches.
Spirituality is something that is felt. It is a non-cognitive experience. To that end, some practices have sprung up all over the world where communities authorize a leadership to codify practices and thoughts that they have shared in their spiritual, emotional experiences.
Fox is one of those, caught up in it on both accounts - and to an extent greater than what exists in any other tradition. Therefore, you've become accustomed to respecting both the traditions he represents and the codified ideology they use to justify it.
None of these, however, have much of anything to do with true religious experience. Those with verifiable authority in the field - Karen Armstrong, for instance, understand that the origin for any religion is non-cognitive, non-codified experience
As someone who recognizes the limits of cognition and the importance of the senses, I get this. Unfortunately, it appears that many don't.
But if you respect the institutions of our civilization, I'd suggest going to the root of both literature and religion: Myth. Or better yet, mythology.
Read Joseph Campbell and you will learn to appreciate, on a much deeper level than others, what the meaning of the religious experience and the divine really is about.
The Foxes are just those who are so hung up on certain aspects of it (whatever they are, I can only speculate until he lets me into his little mind a bit more) that they do what they can to go through the motions of its titles, the clubs borne out of it, and the empowerment over community that it offers, that they lose the point entirely.
It would be sad, but there is more out there. If you don't feel in touch with it, but haven't lost the ability to relate to or identify with the written word, again I suggest going to Joseph Campbell. Or even Bullfinch.
Good luck on your journey.
ARM said ...
It is not established that he is a deserter, technically 30 days off base in the absence of any other evidence.
I really suggest you carefully read Articles 85 and 86 of the UCMJ. 30 days, by itself does NOT define desertion...INTENT to not return does. Since that is allegedly debateable, it is an open question.
I think we have a dolt who was jarred by his first combat, and decided to go native and be a peacemaker, thinking he'd be welcomed...all lovely except the Haqqani and Taliban do not want peace, but Jidhad. And he likely was NOT welcome and considered a cowardly, thus untrustworthy, an anomaly by those he sought acceptance among. NO doubt they tested his physical tolerance as a test of his devotion. He failed I'm guessing. BTW..THAT he left and secreted himself (intent?) is testified to by first hand witnesses ("crawling through the grass" as related by local kids)...those men who went out on that first patrol to find him.
Without providing much detail, I will tell you that I went native, too, but never forgot where I was, where I came from or who I was, a US Soldier. I was a sergeant who earned his stripes, but got them early only becasue another sergeant died. Never been comfortable with that. Anyway, as a result, whenever we had guys like Bergdahl disappear, I was on the squad sent to recover them, usually lead...by force if necessary. See...I knew where to look. And we never failed to recover the "disappeared." Most were shitbirds, a few, well ...you guess the rest.
But you know, OVERALL, I really don't care. I REALLY DO NOT CARE.
I am glad he is home. If he was just a schmuck and got abused, so bet it. If he violated his oath as a solider...kill the bitch.
Let him go home to his family and be loved until the full investigation is complete (under AR 15-6 and Article 32 of UCMJ). Then, however adjudicated, let him live in peace with his conscience.
He's not the first guy to shrivel in the bottom of his fighting hole, or subsequent ot a scary patrol, so to speak. I pissed my pants the first time I was subjected to mortar (82 mm) attack...shit was falling from the sky, no where to hide...only luck gave you life. It is a self revealing experience. Good thing I carried extra under shorts and socks...as I soaked them both...and did not care. Changed when I had the chance. I was NOT alone.
Quite frankly, this whole thread vis a vis Bergdahl is mostly absent of anyone who has actually been there, done that. I find it amusing as a result.
ARM and R&B...you make all this much more complicated than it is. Really. I understand why, but seriously, you cite Karen Armstrong? I was a pagan mother-fucker until 8 April 2012....and I find this debate spurious.
I have no doubt I am going to hell, it is where I have earned my lively hood.
I don't complicate the simple.
Let me repeat myself...
Hey, LEM...when are you going to put your new "partner" on the masthead?
WTF?
Old Buddy.
Which I realize is something that runs rabbits, eats shit, and barks at the moon.
Some of my best friends.
I was just trying to throw some extra names out there to give him some breadth. I'm not sure I found Armstrong all that useful (I'm watching some videos now) or even if her history's the best, and I don't know and don't care what the 2012 controversy du jour is all about, but the only people who have anything useful to say about religion take a comparative approach to at least trying to understand it, which she popularized.
I think you have to start with myth if you want to even begin to understand the emotional needs that all the members of the Divine Mask and Glown Club are trying to take advantage of. But most people don't like to go there. THey think we're too sophisticated. Westerners don't need myths, right?
Start with the Romans, then. And the Greeks. As the founders did. They had their myths, too. Much richer ones than a lot of people came up with. Shit, people don't even like to read, though. Let alone learn about why literature started in the first place.
Let's leave Bergdahl's status alone. If he was Audie Murphy, he would not want to be released under these circumstances (just like John McCain refused to be released early because his dad was an Admiral). The issue, the real issue, is why did the President do an expedited exchange with the Taliban and the Haqqani Netowrk for one prisoner in violation of the law?
The reason was Obama wanted an excuse to start emptying Gitmo, even if that means endangering Afghan civilians (these five have killed thousands, including women and children0 and our troops still in county. And at least one of the five said he intends to go back to Jihad as soon as he can.
And Meade a conservative? Really? He is dancing a fine line between his wife's sponsor Instapundit and being a shill for Bergdahl and Crack.
Why the animosity/sarcasm for Lem, Aridog?
I think he wanted these two threads to end, which just shows that he's not in it for page views, etc. I really think he wants people to get along.
I really think he wants people to get along.
Because I am a prick.
I don't think there is room here for perpetually aggrieved little hobbit man and me.
But I can solve that.
Lem won't, and that is his business. I am wishing he'd not make us an adjunct of Althouse, and that is my fault. To his credit, he said up front this was a corollary site to Althouse. So be it.
If he gives a shit about what I think about his pet troll, I'd never know it...he's said nothing to me, directly or indirectly.
But mainly because I am a prick.
BTW Chickelit...last time I got sick of this shit and took a hiatus, you said to email you. I did. Don't recall an response. Maybe I missed it.
It really no longer matters...after the last couple days of Meade more prevalent that rancid horse shit in a barn.
I am an equally opportunity prick, recently ceasing subscription to Legal Insurrection because the owner did not care to fix his comment section that dumped me in to spam, allegedly, even though I was a registered subscriber. A glitch no doubt, but too big to care is what it is....and I get the idea Lem is about in that same state of mind.
He can tell me if I am wrong. I'm wrong a lot. We will see.
Jim Dolan said...
"Lem just wants to keep it common law. "
Posted by Jim Dolan to Lem's Levity at June 8, 2014 at 9:04 PM
Trooper,
Pogo doesn't like it when you use people's real names. It's like you're trying to ruin this guy, Jim Dolan's, life or something. It makes you evil like Saul Alinsky.
Aridog said...
"Because I am a prick."
If you're trying to start a new argument, Airdog, I doubt you'll get any pushback on that one. Try something a little more controversial.
Lem just want to keep it common law.
Everybody knows who I am. It is the people who want to remain anonymous who should stay away from Mordor and it's minions.
They will publicize your personal business and try to ruin you as they have done to several people.
I just like to stay consistent in a thread so people know who is talking.
Pogo has know my real name for five years. We have corresponded.
I would trust Pogo with anything that he wanted to know.
Other people I wouldn't trust to take care of a dog.
They would molest it.
If not try to marry it.
You wrote it better the first time, Trooper Jim — the one you deleted because, oops, wrong browser, that's my real name, what if that evil Morder Meade sees it? What will he think of me?.
I don't know why some blogs permit homophobic misogynist anti-religion ranters like Meade.
Now is the time for his threats, if memory serves.
Ain't my blog, though, but Aridog and Trooper are worth 1297 Meades apiece.
Last week I pressed my hand into the spot where Christ's crucifix was placed. It reminded me that some people are just Screwtapes, here to cause misery.
And in that I agree with TTburnett, noting such people aren't worth spending my time on. If he succeeds in wrecking this place, that'd be too bad, but such are the wages of sin.
Are people still arguing here??
Good grief. It's a beautiful summer Sunday evening. Get outside. Have some fun! Thank God for this day. Or Wal-Mart if you're not a fan of God.
Either way, give it a rest, sleep well, and start tomorrow happy.
I'm happily wrenching on a never-gonna-win car at a local rece track. Dirt, beer, good guys.
I saw the pillar, the column where Jesus was whipped.
My own sufferings are but petty tyrannies. Others, like Meade, are minor annoyances. His recurrent agitations here serve as a useful reminder that though I treasure the commenters here, the mean-spirited biliousness isn't worth my time.
That is, Meade, you win. Your wife wins. You both won the internets.
O frabjous day.
@Michael:
I'm doing homework.
Or not doing it. Tedious stuff.
"1297 Meades"
In 1297, the Meades were still in Wales. Probably brewing honey wine, coerced to kiss the Pope's ring, while telling the King to take his taxes and shove em up his rent seeking hiney. We went by the name Madog back then. Meade is our slave name.
From awesome to loathsome in 20 generations.
Testing 1,2 3....
I certainly think it is a special treat that Meade is here to lecture us on how to worship. I for one am duly grateful for the omniscience of such a man.
We are all saved by Saint Meade. Can I get a Hallelujah?
Pogo is Only Mostly Dead said...
"Oh, Alinsky rule #4 again."
June 8, 2014 at 10:02 PM
Are you my enemy? I don't see it that way.
"live up to its own book of rules"
If you truly believed in your rules, you would welcome the opportunity to demonstrate how one lives by them. Instead, you seem to look for scapegoats and ways to deflect. Do you even believe in your own rules, Pogo, or are they really only rules for the little people, not you?
Name is Dick not Rick, Larry...and my religion, until very recently, was something you can't imagine because you never been there.
Lately I've learned to ignore guys like you, but for you I will make an exception. As I said, I am going to hell with a certainty you will never know. I will await you there.
BTW Chickelit, you are very fast. I am impressed and frankly grateful.
I will try not to be that guy (as I have been in the past) who goes up and slugs a cop when the fight is otherwise over...just because. Kept going to jail with the assholes that way. Duh!
Homework's done. And Mr. HAZ is quite right.
It's a beautiful night, the quarter moon is high, the evening birds are calling, and the breeze is soft.
The light quickly fades, and tomorrow is birthday 26 for number one son.
Blessings!
"I will await you there. "
Whatever you say, Rich.
There you go, Pogo. Blessings indeed.
Blessings, Pogo. May your son have a happy 26th tomorrow.
Blessings, all.
Pogo...Happy Birthday to you son, and right on for the joy a father has in a child who has grown up.
I'm a hard nose and though my daughter knows better (that for her I am a softy), she is keeping problems to herself (again)...which always ends up badly. For her.
So, for tonight I wish, pray, that she will open up before it is catastrophe. This time I fear it is work, where she earns a middle 6 figure wage, and the pressure to perform is immense. As it should be for that compensation. I can help her only if she asks.
Happy birthday to you son...26 is a great age. I remember every minute of mine.
Funny how because I attend the "children's mass" I seem so drawn to youth today, even the Muslim kids who visit me daily to play with Dera. They have no idea how they lift my spirits, and Dera's too.
We are on world, east and west, and I've lived in both. I envy some friends and their kids because they are living in Africa and learning things I never dreamed of ... deployment can do things for you that are far more than expected.
Meant to thank you for sharing what the children's mass was all about, Aridog. Sounds lovely.
Congrats to both the parents here.
As for Africa, I saw this awesome video lately on what they let you do while visiting. This one, too, was really awesome.
I used to not be a cat person, moreso due to allergies than anything else. Then I dated a girl or two really attached to her cat who convinced me otherwise (I suppose a hypo-allergenic breed might help).
But the one thing that bothered me was that, as much as I liked lions, I couldn't morally stand their take on society. Males can literally take over a pride and kill the cubs, which brings the females into heat. Imagine that. Becoming horny over some asshole killing your kids. Horrible.
Well, I still think that's bad, but these videos convinced me that lions aren't so bad and even cats in general aren't the sociopaths that natural dog-lovers like me assume them to be.
Cheers -
Ah, this one's a good one, too. This guy has a ton of videos on his experiences there. Just wish I could keep them straight.
Darcy..it is lovely. I've been a sucker for kids, though a total Grinch, for most of my life...even the kids I played base ball with in a dirty lot with a broom stick and a tennis ball, half a world away literally....me in fatigues, rifle on the ground near home plate, and them in whatever they could afford.
Never worried who did what while I was running the bases, to the great hilarity of the kids because I was so slow in my combat boots and at my ancient age of 28. The rifle was always there, untouched, when I finally made it to home plate...or my old dude side was struck out.
You are welcome to join us on any Sunday at 11:15 AM, Fr Zbigniew would welcome you I am certain...as would everyone in the Mexican community, mostly closer to Indian than Spanish.
If you tell me you are coming I will be sure to enable your visit...you do know how to reach me. No big deal. Just some lovely children in a small service in Detroit with parents who are proud. The rest is easy.
Thanks Darcy, Aridog and Ritmo.
It still feels like I could run upstairs and check him in the crib.
He was born by C-section, so far the only side effect seems to be that when he leaves a building he tends to use the windows.
Ba-dum-bum.
R & B .... I have Yankee friends in Africa, deployed if you will, who seem to adapt very well. Martial artists and all that, as well as kids who go to off to schools I could only dream of in my time. The wife, tough as nails plus, even started a business and hired African Judo+ experts for some real money. Four languages and adding to that. Dad is a Russian émigré & citizen, and he speaks multiple tongues... a DoD guy I admire...and there are damn few of those. Really great people.
If you want the FaceBook link just ask, preferably by email via my Blogger profile.
Cue it up -
Sounds good, Ari. Thanks -
R & B...I await your email. These people are both fun and serious. You will enjoy them....especially "Ruthie."
Aridog said... But mainly because I am a prick.
I couldn't disagree more.
I consider you a good friend here.
Chickl said... I really think he (me) wants people to get along.
Very much.
Lets remember... we/I started here because we were displaced... meaning it's more about the comments and commenters than about me.
Chickl, Deborah, Darcy, MH and ChipA have done more than i have keeping up with the comments, day to day. I couldn't be more grateful to them for that.
Happy 26th Birthday to Pogoson!
My son will be 16 in a couple weeks. I'm teaching him to drive a stick.
@Aridog: I must have lost or deleted your email. Please send me another.
Meanwhile, here's a song for you: link
@chickelit
Feliz cumpleanos to your 16 year old.
Teaching someone to drive, much less a stick, is indeed a labor of love.
What a kind offer, Aridog. I believe I will check it out one Sunday.
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