Tuesday, December 9, 2014

Gruber explains healthcare vs taxes

In the previous video Haz showed Gruber denies designing a system that eluded CBO considering the plan a tax while admitting it is tax to Supreme Court. He repeats this denial several times.

In this video Gruber lays out what he considers lopsided pay increases in the form of additional healthcare options that are nontaxable vs regular wage increases that are taxable. He brags about speaking on this subject for years. He lays out how many uninsured people could be provided healthcare with the money government takes in by taxing increases in corporate healthcare benefits beyond an unspecified level. He states outright it is his favorite part of the plan and he brags about the plan being exceedingly clever. In short, he brags about all he denies before the committee in stating he did not write the healthcare plan, but boy, did he ever advise on what was written. In the video he claims responsibility for what he denies responsibility for now.



Anecdote:

The FRB where I worked is their own insurance company but they have a regular insurance company administer the plan for them. This is common practice among large companies. Of late they acquired a new company to administer all their benefits not just insurance. The new company called me at home to interrogate into matters that are none of their business. The caller, a nice sounding friendly understanding chap, began the conversation without the usual double check list of questions that assures they are speaking to the right person and that they must ask by law. The caller just launched right in with incredibly intrusive interrogation. Naturally, I took umbrage and told the caller so. I was not cooperative. I could have been phished for all I knew. He advised there would be paperwork along the same lines to follow. So I was ready.

I could not believe what they sent me. I still cannot get it out of my mind. The cover letter threatened straight up that my coverage depended on compliance. 

I did comply, but not well. Half the questions I crossed out, several I wrote "none of your business." I circled the threat on the cover letter and suggested it might be time for me to call a lawyer. As I proceeded through the six pages of interrogation my responses became worse. 

"Do I look like your form-filling bitch?" "Fuck you," and "Stop being such nosy cunts," that sort of thing throughout the six pages. They asked about other sources of income. They asked about skills that I have. They asked if I build websites, if I have a website, what the address of the website. Exceedingly intrusive lines of questions having to do with routines, times I usually go to bed, times I usually wake up, clean house, do dishes, cook, laundry, hobbies, and the like. All that presupposes routine. Things that have nothing to do with administering benefit plans. I wrote" none of your business." They asked for my SS# twice, they asked for my email address twice. My address they have, my phone number they have. My physician, they have all that. I wrote, "Look, you  wanted the contract, you got the contract, now administer the contract and otherwise leave me the fuck alone! 

They brought out my French side completely.

It seemed as if they are complying with government intrusion themselves. It seemed like government is making them collect data. Stuck between rock and hard place. They asked me information they already have, and used to contact me. So I was filling their forms for them. I am doing their work, being treated as an employee. 

I am nobody's employee.

Or else this is government's way of cross checking to sort through and weed out insurance fraud.

Usually the FRB will contact as well to prepare people to expect such a thing. But not this time.

Oddly they did not ask the more natural and important health-related questions: how many times have you fallen the last year?"  They didn't imagine asking, "How many times have you been transfused?" Nor, "How many seizures have you experienced?" Those three answers would have shocked them.

I cannot get rid of the anger. I just cannot. It's been a week and I dwell on being dragged back thorough all the things that make people give up. That's not how I succeed. I do not think about the things holding me back, rather, I concentrate on what I can do. I must. This whole line of questioning is damaging psychologically. It really is. That is not just idle hyperbole. They are forcing me to concentrate in detail on the things I actively avoid thinking about. And it pisses me off. It makes me realize, Dude, you really should be more miserable than you are. I'm distracted. I cannot think of each footstep as I must to stay upright. I took a spill the next day like like a gymnast. I never know how that happens, I just collapse. On the way down I calculate how to minimize damage but at that point there is not much one can do except fall as well as possible. I actually rolled and landed on my back between two pieces of hard furniture with inches to spare on each side, and framed art behind glass that I took out of storage and haven't found a place for yet. I landed on carpet and came within inches of ending up in a pile of glass shards, but I didn't because I had practiced falling and getting back up. I got up with no injury at all. Nothing even hurt. Nothing pulled. Not even the shakes that usually follow. I wish I had that on video so I can examine what went wrong. It was the first time I fell in a year, maybe a year and half. I've been doing quite well, actually. I am certain it was the distraction that caused the failure. At least that's what I'm blaming. 

Writing this was good practice for what to write the FRB. I feel better already. 

28 comments:

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Well, whatever happens, hopefully we can at least prevent more people from getting coverage. It's not like their feelings count or anything.

Michael Haz said...

Imagine what the family coverage inquisition must be like

bagoh20 said...

" ... hopefully we can at least prevent more people from getting coverage."

Never before in my life have I ever heard so many people complaining about their health insurance, doctors, difficulty of getting service, and health costs. I never knew so many people fraught with worry about their ability to get adequate insurance or any at all. They worry out load about what they will have to sacrifice to get it. It's now a daily occurrence to hear someone I know or meet sharing serious concerns about these things that in the past were occasional concerns for a few. These are mostly people who had this handled before with little worry. Anecdotal - continuously one-sidedly anecdotal. I must run in rare circles.

Something is not working in a very big way, and the people who are telling us that it is are proven serial liars.

I wonder what the chances are that Gruber would have worked to get all those wonderful Obamacare outcomes if he wasn't paid for it. I wonder what he would do to get paid. I'm sure an architect of such virtue would produce a product of similar virtue for us all. How lucky we are to have him - worth every penny.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

My take away... Taxes are complicated and now so is health care.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I must run in rare circles.

Yep. And it's the fact that you don't know it that's astounding.

bagoh20 said...

Hey, I'm not the one who fell for the lies, and continues to years later. Those dumb voters he's talking includes someone very close to you.

bagoh20 said...

The victims I describe include lots of low income people, small business owners, students, even the congresswoman who explained the cost of foolish arrogance to Gruber today for us all to see. A pretty wide group of obscure exceptions.

Just admit you got played, and move on. The wiser you of the future awaits your arrival. Don't be late.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

What lies? You're a dumber douche than thought possible if you believe it was done for people like you and me. It was done for those unseen untouchables that you want to pretend don't exist. And yes, they're better off now. Just be honest and say you resent richer people having a teensy bit more sacrifice so that those who had nothing can finally have anything at all.

Or just admit you're an a-hole who thinks some people are more important than others in what's done to allow them to live viable lives. Just admit it. You keep missing that not everyone grew up with dirt-ass stingy parents who made them feel so insecure as to resent what's done for the least among us, as opposed to what's done for those with the most or not so much less.

Methadras said...

Michael Haz said...

Imagine what the family coverage inquisition must be like


Nobody expects the family coverage inquisition!!!

Chip Ahoy said...

Not having insurance for healthcare is not the same thing as not having healthcare. Conflating the two is obnoxious.

I lived in a building for awhile of mostly poor people. Most never worked or never held a job very long. Few that I knew there had their own policies, nonetheless they are all cared for and frankly abuse the care they are given by the state for free.

I pay out the ass for insurance and use it seldom as possible because the paperwork that follows. They pay nothing, never did, and do not care about what is given, with none of the headaches of keeping it.

One fellow in particular threw himself out of a fourth floor window in failed suicide attempt. He showed me his x-rays, by way of bragging. All pins inside criss-crossing holding his bones together.

I drove him to the city/state hospital one time.

He was told specifically not to ride a bicycle after that because one more fall puts him beyond repair. And by looking at his x-ray I believed it. There he was riding around and grinning, even though he can drive and owns a car. He defied his own doctor's order at tremendous risk and did so with a childish impish grin.

That's just one example. I have dozens.

So don't give me this shit about denying people government sponsored healthcare policies when they're being are being taken care of at no expense When federal government gets their hands on them. Goodbye to whatever puny discretionary spending they have to apply to their ridiculous values.

bagoh20 said...

A lot of liberals in my circle - which is mostly liberal - have a strong distaste for Obama now. Some hate the man. Different reasons, but the most common one is Obamacare and the lies he pushed about it. His signature accomplishment is his biggest mistake, his biggest betrayal, and his biggest lie, and that's a high bar. This small repulsive man, Gruber, is a lot like him.

bagoh20 said...

Ritmo, I am 100% sure that I have been both poorer and richer than you ever have. I actually have perspective you only imagine you posses. The failures of this monstrosity of a law, and it's victims are across the board. I talk to them at all levels. It's the poorer ones who are most upset, and scared. The rich aren't feeling that desperation. They just see it as a stupid and disastrous waste of money and opportunity for the many just to enrich a few like your hero Gruber, who thinks you're an idiot. I heard him say it. If I ever meet him, I'll punch him right in his big fat caviar eatin' mouth for you.

bagoh20 said...

"The liberals you know are just selfish, image-conscious So-Cal pricks who run when it comes to real sacrifice."

Check your stereotypes, bonehead. Many these people are broke. They run charities, they work multiple low paying jobs, they sacrifice like you never have in your life. Maybe they just don't like being lied to the way you seem to be comfortable with.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

As much as I admire your guts, some people can be forever spiritually impoverished no matter how materially rich or poor they ever were.

Hating Gruber makes as much sense as hating P.T. Barnum and H.L. Mencken. No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. If America hates the law to do anything about it (not that America ever feels passionate enough about anything to collectively do anything), it would change. But they won't. It's just in their spirit to complain about anything that makes them feel like less of a king. Fixing that spiritual disease would be a better way to go, but then they'd have less to complain about with the law.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Only an insane person could turn Chip's story into an argument over rich vs poor.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Really? The lower middle-class are the ones feeling the squeeze on this? Interesting that it's this health care law then where you try to make more common cause with the right, cause last I heard they wanted to raise taxes on the lower middle class just for the hell of it. For the "fairness" of it. So I don't see them agreeing in monetary terms with your sense of supposed injustice they'd feel if they are chipping in more. That's exactly what the right wanted, in taxes at least, when the idea of raising top marginal rates was being batted around. Make the poor pay their fair share too, they said. And you bashed them along with it as well. How soon people forget what they're really saying, I guess.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
Really? The lower middle-class are the ones feeling the squeeze on this?

For fucks sake Ritmo, what do you know about lower middle class? Do you work with any of them? Talk to them on a regular basis?

Be honest.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

If <$30,000 annually isn't lower middle class, then what is? Yes, I work with them. Do you?

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Trust me, I'm trying to see Chip's (and every other Levitationist's) view on this. I mean after all, I see he did have the good taste to post some Plastic Bertrand earlier.

chickelit said...

Yes, Ritmo, I do. Considerable less than $30K/y

chickelit said...

Right now, the grossest violators of the ACA are the large retail employers who deliberately over-hire in order to keep their employee's hours below 25hr/week. They are deservedly beginning to strain now because of losses of good workers who want to work but are prevented from doing so.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Wiki says it actually all the way up 60k/yr, which really surprises me.

In any event, the declining living standard has been a problem since way before Obama took that oath on the sekrit Koran.

The problem for Republicans is going to be finding a way to convey expertise with understanding the needs of the <60k/yr crowd, given that last round they were complaining that a $250k/yr family would be unjustly punished if considered rich enough to contribute more annually to revenue.

There's a wide swath between $250 k and $30k. I suggest they start learning what those different concerns and issues are. And being more inherently lobby-influenced at the same time I don't even know how to touch.

But at least they're talking the concern, if I can't for the life of me see where their credibility would come in on it.

Even da Vinci couldn't paint you
and Stephen Hawking can't explain you
Rosetta Stone cannot translate you
I'm at a loss for words

chickelit said...

The problem for Republicans is going to be finding a way to convey expertise with understanding the needs of the <60k/yr crowd, given that last round they were complaining that a $250k/yr family would be unjustly punished if considered rich enough to contribute more annually to revenue.

Forget income levels. They vary from state to state as they should. Federal level Republicans are already disconnected. The problem, IMO, is the whole notion of coastal elites in major cities not understanding that the rest of us can't be like them. I predict a steady decline in R and D at the Federal level and an increasing atomization as states re-evolve and re-assert themselves. There will be more Scott Walkers. There also will be a few shining Democratic states. But Obama and Congress in general have fucked people's trust in a Federal Government -- especially the micromanagement of social issues. Hillary doesn't understand this.

I think the same thing is happening in Europe.

chickelit said...

By "R and D" I meant "Republican and Democrat" and not research and development.

Michael Haz said...

I like it when Ritmo does his usual fly-by on one of the topics here.

His condescension, insults, and outright stupidity remind me of everything I hate about progressiveism, and inoculate me against ever contracting that vile disease.

He out Grubers Gruber.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Don't worry Michael. You were never in danger of thinking for yourself anyway. ;-) It can be a dangerous thing.

Like Miyagi said, "Never think for oneself, ok. Always think for oneself, ok. Think for oneself so-so, squash like grape!"

Michael Haz said...

Proved my point.