New York Post, December 8, 2015 by Yaron Steinbuch
Donald Trump warned Tuesday of “many more World Trade Centers” if his call for a total ban on Muslims entering the US is not heeded.
“You’re going to have many more World Trade Centers if you don’t solve it — many, many more and probably beyond the World Trade Center,” Trump told CNN.
The Republican presidential front-runner said he believes there are already terrorists in the country who want to unleash death and destruction.
“They want our buildings to come down. They want our cities to be crushed,” he said. “They are living in our country and many are outside of our country.”
The mogul also slammed President Obama for refusing to acknowledge that the United States is at war with extremist Islam.
“We are at war with radical Islamic terrorism,” he told CNN. “We have a president that made a fool out of himself the other night. He doesn’t even mention the term. He refused to use the term. Nobody understands why. If you’re not going to even use the term, you’re never going to solve the problems.”
Trump is rejecting criticism that his proposal is un-American and has critics comparing him to Adolf Hitler.
He said what he’s calling for is “no different” than President Franklin Roosevelt — “who was highly respected by all” despite his measures during World War II that included putting Japanese-Americans in internment camps in the US.
Those camps, however, have been widely decried in the decades since the war.
Trump on Monday called for a “total and complete shutdown” on Muslims entering the country that should remain in place “until our country’s representatives can figure out what’s going on.”
Many of his fellow GOP presidential candidates have denounced the incendiary proposal.
92 comments:
Don't apologize, Donald!
Meanwhile, crickets for the proposal about banning people on the no-fly list.
You know who else loves this? The left. They are salivating over his nomination. They may be wrong, but they only hear themselves and their circle who believe he is easy to demonize which is how they always win. Trumpettes are doing the same thing - listening to themselves.
Everybody in the middle, the ones who will decide this, are waiting to see how bad it gets before they once again choose the least of two evils. Remember, they voted for Obama twice because McCain and Romney were too scary. Hillary is corrupt and dishonest, but people feel they know her limits. She's safe compared to Trump. No doubt about it that more attacks increase his odds, but no more attacks? The next President may be up to ISIS to decide.
ISIS will attack again before the election. It will be immigrants let in by Obama's lax and lazy vetting process. All he can do is say it is American's fault and that we should not say mean things about the people who want to kill us.
Hillary has the media (grudgingly) on her side v. Trump.
So her incompetence and corruption will be normalized.
That's the difference.
Obamavoterman.
People know Trump is absolutely correct. His delivery is shit, but his sentiment is spot on, because it's the exact same sentiment I have and frankly he doesn't go far enough. Ignore these Muslims at your own peril and he's basically saying that he won't. The chicken shits are showing us who they are by calling him unamerican when in reality, he appears to be the most pro-American of anyone in the candidate pool. Even that little faggot Josh Earnest called him unqualified to be president? Really? Under what criteria when you have a president you work for that appears to be asleep at the wheel of the presidency and cannot call an enemy an enemy. If you are a Muslim in this country, you have a lot of explaining to do. You are part of a religion that has zero issue being extreme and you are too cowardly to stand up against it. This is your religion, which is untrustworthy and ill equipped to be compatible with American and Constitutional values. I support trump in this a million percent.
I'm still not a trump supporter, but if he's the last man standing, then I will be.
So the way to handle the media being in the tank for Hillary is to just take it like Mitt did.
Good plan.
Vote for Lindsey Graham then.
They don't love supporting Hillary but they are confident enough people will vote against Trump that it will put her over the top.
And they are just hoping that Trump doesn't have the Obama effect of dredging up new voters (and winning over old ones) who are energized and enthralled by his charismatic and clever persona.
ndspinelli said...
Angryman
Sorry spinelli. You voted for Obama and you contributed to this mess by helping to put him in power. There was ample and sufficient evidence in 2007 to show you what kind of a person he was and you still pulled that lever. You voted for a radical leftist marxist to be president of the United States of America. I don't think you have any room to complain about Trump or anyone else for that matter.
Meth - Trump's delivery is calculated to get attention. Not shit at all.
There are lots of things about Roosevelt's internment program that don't pass the smell test. By 1944, it was clear that it served no useful purpose to keep the Japanese under armed guard in these camps. Several members of FDR's cabinet recommended closing them,. Roosevelt, nonetheless, kept them open until after the election for purely political reasons. Likewise with the Italians and the Romanians. He didn't confine Italian nationals to the camps because, as he famously said, "Italians are all a bunch of opera lovers". Well, ok, but the Italians were also a key part of the New Deal coalition. Romanians weren't, and their asses got shipped to the camps.......The internment program is usually criticized as an example of American racism. Perhaps it was, but it's just as much an example of a misguided and inept New Deal program.......The legacy of Woodrow Wilson is under attack. How much longer until we discover FDR was, at heart, a Republican in the way he dealt with minorities.......I'm not even mentioning the shameful way he handled Jewish refugees. He refused to accept them. It was the claim of his administration that we risked importing a fifth column if we took in German refugees. My guess is that there weren't a lot of Nazi sympathizers among the German Jewish refugees, but that was the reason his administration gave.
Yet ANOTHER brilliant stroke deftly delivered by Trump. And Rupert Murdoch agrees with him. Make THEM (Obama and Hillary) defend the status quo of bringing in millions of Muslims. Make THEM explain why we need to do this. Make them defend their obviously failed vetting process. Trump just went up 10 more points.
"The left doesn't love this. If they did and they were confident they would sit back and let Trump destroy himself with his own rhetoric"
Exactly, if the Left loved Trump and thought he would hand them the election, they wouldn't be attacking him 24/7. In truth, the Left loves losers like Dole, McCain, Romney and currently, Jeb and Rubio. They're weak RINO sisters who will not only lose, they LOVED losing. And even if they win, so what? Jeb and Rubio will be just like McConnell and Ryan, part of the DC in-crowd working hand in hand with Liberals.
And all you libtards in drag and RINOs are apoplectic. And you know who you are.
"Fuck yourself, lawnboy. You realize these comments will be gone, so why do you even comment here, loser? Your blog is tanking, just like your marriage."
This is turning into a free-fire zone. Its like the ending to the Good bad and Ugly with Trooper, Nick and Meade in each corner.
With Trooper being "the Good"
With HER money. Win-win. You can't make this shit up.
Hey I want to be the ugly!
I worked in media until my retirement.
While I don't think I want to get involved in supporting a candidate through primaries (never do), I gotta express a lot of admiration for Trump's media campaign. He's not only successful, but he's forcing issues into the public arena that both parties and the media want to suppress.
It's a year until the nominating convention. Let the issues be worked out in the primary process.
Well, count me as one whose eyes are finally opened on media bias, because while I expected criticism, I didn't expect them to be all over him like this! I believe they're thinking, finally, we've got him! I really need to see how this does or does not affect his polling, as I'd have trouble believing that it would.
The problem is that if you want to say he said something wrong or that he misspoke, it wouldn't be by much. Even Obamba had got to the point of calling on Muslims to confront their doctrines and radicals. So if I were advising him, I'd have said it like this:
"Yes it's true that we are a tolerant and generous country. But simply going under the name of a 'religion' doesn't absolve all who follow it of responsibility for understanding its core doctrines and challenging them if needed."
"Islam, as I understand it, is a religion that denies the separation of politics from religion and has never successfully undergone and adapted to challenges as substantial to it as others we know have undergone. And one of the core concepts that requires challenge is 'jihad'. While many Muslims may personally feel disturbed by or disagree with applying jihad to situations that bring senseless carnage to our streets, the fact remains that no central authority in Islam has made Muslim identity contingent upon categorically rejecting this doctrine as it applies to innocent people."
"So while being a Muslim may mean many things, what is clear is that those who do not feel compelled to challenge the core doctrine of jihad, and how it can be easily interpreted to target innocent lives for achieving political ends, are not welcome in this country. If you feel that religious freedom applies to those who aren't up to the task of conscientiously reforming the doctrine of jihad in America, you are right. And unfortunately, they have that right. It is a problem that we have yet to do something successful about."
"But I, as a candidate, see no room for letting people who are sympathetic to jihadist violence into our country. Almost anyone can call themselves a Muslim, and that is a broad religious category that we shouldn't seek to demean at our borders."
"But I absolutely reserve the right to demand that ANYONE seeking to enter or attain citizenship in the United States of America, affirms their commitment to upholding the peace of the land and its laws over any jihadist doctrines, and confirm their ideological commitment to an Islam that has done away with the doctrine entirely."
That probably would have done it. Either way, it's plainly what needs to be said.
I have the Punim for it!
The Left isn't scared of Trump, not yet anyway. I'm not seeing fear, I'm seeing surprise at their luck. They attack him because he's by far the easiest to demonize - he does all the work for them. They love to use his rhetoric to define all Republicans. Why would they attack the other Repubs when they have Trump teeing it up for them. He's got it all: scary, obnoxious, he'e easy to paint as a racist, misogynist, autocratic, and reactionary. It's perfect for them.
In the end, Trump may win out and get enough fence sitters, especially if there are more attacks, but right now he's just what the left wants. He scares the hell out of college professors and pajama boys. They can scare a lot of voters with him, and see a way to completely overshadow and distract from Hillary's extensive negatives.
In the end, Trump may win out and get enough fence sitters, especially if there are more attacks, but right now he's just what the left wants. He scares the hell out of college professors and pajama boys. They can scare a lot of voters with him, and see a way to completely overshadow and distract from Hillary's extensive negatives.
The eternal argument of the Judenrat.
I even love you, Shouty.
That's good. Now, learn to hate your enemies.
Christian forgiveness and mercy get applied afterward.
Trump has likely been sent to atone for your sins, Meade!
Something else to remember about electoral dynamics: Romney was clobbered with everything he said that was brutally honest. He was right about all of it, and it cost him the election to the guy who lied about it all. Being right is nice to remind people of from your porch after the election. I don't know what you do about that when the media lies along with them, but that's who most people hear. Maybe Trump can out-volume them this time.
I'm not here to cheer lead, although I really rock the outfit. I'm challenging the guys holding down the throttle on The Orca.
Islam is the problem.
Trump is doing something called "leading."
I predict that events will eventually lead you to accepting that Islam is the problem.
But you will run around in circles rationalizing for quite a while yet.
The place to go to find out the deep interior struggle going on in the U.S. is the Heartiste weblog.
You have to wade through a lot of irrelevant and stupid crap to get to the meat of it.
Ignore the Game and lonely hearts stuff and get the basic political message.
You are on to something with the idea that Trump is the mirror image of Obama. That he will energize a new segment of the electorate. Or if not a new segment one that has been ignored and marginalized and yes betrayed by the duopoly.
The difference between us is that you want to be better than that bags. I don't.
So let Hillary wake up....leave Huma in the bed....put on her pantsuit.....and let's get ready to rumble!
Hillary's strategy will be obvious. Distance herself from Obama's weakness and failure, which many will let her or even help her do. Then start talking tough too and position yourself as bringing Trump's toughness without Trump. This will seem the better choice to many. Not me, but many I know.
"...the deep interior struggle going on in the U.S...."
Ordinary non-political people, in their millions, are waking up, fitfully, to the ABSOLUTE EVIL of the Establishment, both heads.
That's fine bags. The people that buy into that would never have voted for a a Republican anyway. Chasing moderates is a mugs game. It never works.
If you think that Lawnboy or Norma Desmond or Spinelli would vote for a Republican you are fooling yourself. They are just jerking your chain buddy.
I know at least ten neighborhoods who haven't voted in twenty years that are ready to vote for a Trump.
Especially since he is going to give them a casino voucher.
It's really a country in flux right now. I have heard a number of long term Lefties around me saying they want to get a gun, learn to shoot, and that they are on board with Trump. Despite what I'm arguing here, I could see him win in a landslide if things continue to develop as they have. The left has overplayed their hand so badly that people are seeing the folly of it. They want to just try something else. Everybody except Trump sounds like the bla bla bla they are tired of.
Hypothetically, let's say I followed a religion that said a "struggle" was necessary - perhaps violently so (not that any central authority is available to say when that "perhaps" should apply - to make sure that my religion was the dominant faith in the land. This would occur when it no longer had to fear that other faiths would somehow "dominate" it. Of course, who defines what "domination" means is in the eye of the beholder.
Let's also say, that a very conventional understanding of my faith implies that a very restrictive religious code is the only way to be certain that my faith has no longer been dominated by others, but that it has dominated them instead.
Let's look at our stopwatches and count how many seconds will pass until a free society notices the contradiction here.
Is Branch Davidianism a legal religion in America?
Would it be illegal if we stopped Heavens Gate adherents from entry at our borders?
The Schmendrik Meade tag team: total pollution.
Shit, the NRA is advertising its ass off on TV!
Cash register is ringing!
Obama has been the greatest advertisement for the NRA ever.
The FDR internment of Japanese American citizens living inside the country differs significantly from Trump's suggestion affecting foreigners.
The constitutional lawyers are all over this one. The history of it is Congress has the perfect right to do whatever they wish regarding immigration. It's not a matter of legality, it's a matter of it being a good idea or not. Everyone agrees it is not a good idea for a variety of reasons having to do with protecting American rights again.
Trump said, "Until we know what the heck is going on." And that gives a lot of wiggle room. "Sir, Pakistan and Somalia appear to be the greatest problem right now."
"Great! Now we know what is going on. Open the floodgates. But, when it comes to Pakistan and Somalia silently turn back and do that "I"m looking at you" sign. and do it really hard, and do it a couple of times menacingly." And everyone in processing does that so by the end of it the immigrants have drilled into their minds that they're being watched constantly. You know, psyops.
Not only does the left fear Trump, the Bush cabal does as well. Didn't Jeb! as much as say that he'd vote for Hillary over Trump? What a moron. That man will never amount to half of his father and brother.
I could see myself voting for Trump, actually. Bags is right. Even ricpic is right. Things are in flux. Troop, the old tribes aren't holding any longer.
There is now such a thing as a "regressive left". It is rank and it is stale. It is the Boss Tweeds of the party. The term is gaining currency and many people no longer view identity politics as a Democratic tribe we want anything to do with. The inter webs is getting rifer and rifer with people who, on some level - intellectual, social, financial, theological, munitional - want as much freedom as possible! and we're done with the fascists dictating what agenda we need to follow so as not to cause offense to whoever's regressing on, increasingly, any of those fronts.
The old labels are losing power. No doubt about it.
Ha ha. ricpic didn't realize that I was talking about Janet Reno's view regarding the legality of Branch Davidianism in America.
Dude, wake up and get a clue. You talk about change and then think you've got me categorized on where I'm at. You're just as wrong at "both heads".
I think that Republicans always need more independents and moderates to win. The reliable base of the Democrats is just a bigger number.
The establishment may fear Trump, Chicken. The left doesn't. I'm sure there are a good number, and an increasing number on the left that like Trump or at least respect him speaking his mind.
The best thing that Trump is doing, I would hope, is getting the left to realize that they have a rotting establishment of their own. They rarely realize it. It's become such a part of the woodwork and so entrenched that we have become blind to it.
But this started with Sanders and is now bleeding through to Trump. They're opening our eyes as to what the establishment is, what it's doing, and how it's part of the problem and how it's standing in the way.
Thanks Troop for posting. I've been battling over at twitter (https://twitter.com/Lemang01) mostly. But I did see you guys were doing a terrific job manning the little ship here.
And thanks to all the commenters as well. We couldn't be here w/o you.
Carry on ;)
I didn't realize you had all these other threads on this. I didn't think it was too far last night, but the way the press has pounced (and I can see how coordinated it is - it's almost like they took a day to figure a strategy) I agree that it went too far. What he should have said that he is concerned about whether Muslims are endorsing or rejecting "jihad" (as a generic term) and that those who do should be stopped. It's about divide and conquer, if you want to get down to tactical jargon. This way he loses Muslim would-be reformers that we need to empower, and he loses Americans who have no understanding of the pernicious doctrines of Islam. But we need both, especially the latter. Challenging jihad as a core faith of Islam and then saying we need to halt things until we figure out who rejects it and who's still struggling with it might have been controversial enough to get him the airtime and issue he wanted - but he did take the generalization too far. (Not for me but for the media). It will now be overshadowed by a media feeding frenzy.
As for how Americans in general feel about it, who knows? He might have still not lost them on it. But boy oh boy will the press try to push them into pushing him under the bus.
Judenrat: the Jewish Councils in Eastern Europe under Nazi occupation.
So ST, since that's the definition how does that jibe with "The eternal argument of the Judenrat," as your response to bagoh's comment that "right now [Trump's] just what the left wants?"
The thing is Trump busts up the old alinements like a crystal wine glass on a marble floor. Trump is just saying common sense things that regular Americans don't think are so outrageous. It is not so outrageous to take a break on unlimited immigration from countries that breed terrorists like fleas.
What he means is that they are pushing the moderates like Bush and Rubio because the don't want to fight. They will sell you down the river to keep their sinecures as "conservative commentors" and political consultants.
Well, I basically agree with Bags - (not to the same extent) - but think the issue had to be broached. Trump did go too far by a hair - (CHALLENGE DOCTRINE NOT RELIGION) - but the silver lining is that the American people's attention span is so short that it won't matter. In a week or a month he'll be saying all sorts of other noteworthy and press-worthy things and the beat will go on and on and on and while an exaggeration like this might have spelt the end of a traditional candidate, Trumpie will continue to weather on.
Meade you are banned not censored. I will delete anything you have to say even if you agreed with me.
So go piss up a rope.
Honestly, it's almost comical the way that the media is trying to trump this all up and out-Trump the Donald Trump. What's strange is how condemnatory the GOP and other candidates were (I think they had SO MUCH wiggle room to distance without completely condemning) and it makes me almost think that you guys are right how much a bunch of shills they and their establishment really are. DO they all REALLY believe that now, finally DJT went too far? Give me a motherfucking break. I can't think of a single Republican or right-wing media outlet that hasn't toyed with the idea of how dangerous the doctrines of Islam have become and now I'm supposed to buy all this outrage? Call me skeptical but I'm not buying it.
It will be a delicate balance to strike, but the conversation is there and it has to start. The doctrines are a problem. Beliefs have to be addressed. Obamba himself said it just last week. Talk about it. Discuss. Stop hiding and admit that ideas have consequences.
"Then start talking tough too and position yourself as bringing Trump's toughness without Trump."
That would be mighty tall talk for a 70 year old Grandmother, who's been waving a "Don't attack Muslims, we surrender" sign all her life.
Of course, she has been tough on Republicans and her husbands bimbos. So there's that.
That is because you are normal person who reason Ritmo. Look you are a liberal but you realize that Trump has a bit of a point. Maybe he pushed it two far. But that is just part of the negotiation. So if someone like you is at least open to Trump then all bets are off. I mean you would not be open to Bush or Cruz or Rubio or Carson.
That is the beauty of Trump that is why both sides of the duopoly needs to destroy him. Jon Stewart and Dick Cheney. Think about it.
Did Nick Spinelli flounce off? I see that he self-deleted all his own comments here and in other threads. I hope he's not going postal.
Nick, if you're out there, Inga is back and on her second alias at Althouse. She first reappeared as "Georgie;" now she's taken the name "Amanda." Seriously, why would anyone so transparently change "clothes" like that? Why not be one entity and stand your ground?
Trump said, "Until we know what the heck is going on." And that gives a lot of wiggle room. "Sir, Pakistan and Somalia appear to be the greatest problem right now."
Yes, Trump's just staking out a position. My gut feeling is that once he's nominated or elected he'll backtrack and go moderate.
I must say Trump has opened my eyes. I never liked the RINO's or the establishment. But Trump has proven that they would rather lose than give up open borders, amnesty, and globalization.
One issue, but its their main issue. Trump is actually a mainstream conservative or even moderate on almost every issue but they'd rather support Hillary - it seems - because of immigration.
Amazing.
You got it RC. There is a whole lot about Trump I don't like. But he is right on immigration and that "trumps" everything else so to speak.
Nick just went to his safe place.
Come back, spinelli!
Reminds me of the memorable book title Wait Until Spring, Bandini by the great Italian-American writer John Fante, much beloved by Bukowski.
Amartel said...
Meth - Trump's delivery is calculated to get attention. Not shit at all.
No, it's his speech style, his cadence, the way he talks, like an east coast mob stooge from Yonkers or some shit. He speaks at a 2nd grade level. That's what I meant about his shit style delivery.
Don't worry. He will be back soon to tell us how boring we are and that we are just an echo chamber and how nobody wants to come here anymore.
It is inevitable.
Like the turning of the earth.
No, it's his speech style, his cadence, the way he talks, like an east coast mob stooge from Yonkers or some shit. He speaks at a 2nd grade level. That's what I meant about his shit style delivery.
I disagree. I think it's about getting things done. Americans are known for half-assing everything but I think the one exception is a certain type of New York accent. As Tony Soprano said to Christopher of LA - it's a land paved with golden handjobs. But no one said Soprano couldn't get something done. George Carlin said he prayed to Joe Pesci because he seemed like a guy who could get things done. No, you can't leave your car on cinder blocks in Yonkers. There's no room - probably because there aren't any front lawns that are big enough.
Maybe I laid into spinelli to hard and I hurt his feelings. That makes me a sad panda.
Having said that, The founding fathers never explicitly or implicitly used religious tests for election to office because anyone from any religion can hold office in the US. Immigration uses the religious test as a function of who the persecutors are vs. the asylums seekers who suffer religious persecution from their state of origin, but this test can also be used to stop non-citizens from entering the country who are muslim. They aren't citizens, so there wouldn't be any distinct, implied, or overt violation of their constitutional rights, since they have none to begin with. I cannot believe this simple fact eludes people,. much less the press and other GOP'ers. Free exercise of religion in a constitutional manner is for citizens of the US. Is the left seriously suggesting that it extends to non-citizens? Because if they are, they are bigger morons than I thought.
Where is Mr. Balls and what have you done with him?
Lol.
I WANNA LIVE! man
It may not be that bad, but a Paris once a month is very possible.
rcocean said...
Trump said, "Until we know what the heck is going on." And that gives a lot of wiggle room. "Sir, Pakistan and Somalia appear to be the greatest problem right now."
Yes, Trump's just staking out a position. My gut feeling is that once he's nominated or elected he'll backtrack and go moderate
Or, he could be laying put the problem in simple, unmistakable language.
FWIW I don't need to like the President. I don't need a drinking buddy in the White House (convenient because I don't drink). I don't want a demi-god. And I don't need anybody glamorous (couldn't stand the Kennedys and their lace curtain-Hollyweird pretensions).
I do want somebody I can trust to do a good job, show some common sense, talk straight, and protect the country. Trump may not turn out to be that guy, but, at this moment, he's closer than anybody else in the running.
Trump has the human touch. He's a classic tummler. But of course if you've lived a culturally deprived life on the West Coast like Meth, well, it's all lost on you.
Now I went and did it.
Tummler: in yiddish the literal meaning is one who makes a racket, a lot of noise. But it really means one of those big bear type guys who has to let everyone in the room know he loves them and keeps it up till you hug him back while saying "Yeah Shecky, we get it, we love you too but enough already!"
At the grocers last week, in walks something straight out of the Arabian nights. I'm 6 foot 1,this guy towers over me.
Bearded,He's dressed in those white cottony pants, vest and sandals. (it was very cold here.) also an elaborate skullcap
He has a little girl with him maybe his bride to be, they are buying cakes and assorted junk food.
Then he pays for it, or should I say I paid for it with a food stamp card.
Now why exactly are we importing Muslims to put immediately on the dole? Is Big Welfare a power in the country now? This is just insane. If the Thuggees, the Aztecs and headhunting cannibals were still around would we be throwing out the red carpet for them as well?
One issue, but its their main issue. Trump is actually a mainstream conservative or even moderate on almost every issue but they'd rather support Hillary - it seems - because of immigration.
I think they're just demographic realists (as well as traitors).
Plus, in California and other blue states, there is a huge class of people (mostly white) who just refuse to do certain types of work. They gladly pay companies who hire illegals to mow their lawns and clean their houses. It's irreversibly entrenched in the lifestyle, man. Moreover, they feel great about doing it because they believe they're helping third world people get a better life. Obviously few of these people ever had kids of their own or if they did it was a couple marriages ago or so.
Well, I challenge you to find a White gardener in Southern California. Nothing stopping them from doing it. It can pay better than McDonald's, and flexible hours, but they just don't do it. My gardener is Hispanic, second generation American, but still Hispanic. What gives?
ampersand said...
Now why exactly are we importing Muslims to put immediately on the dole?
To stuff the ballot boxes with imported Democrats.
Were it mine to do, every last one of them and the Hispanics imported for the same reason would be gone.
I am my own gardener, bags. Most of my neighbors are too.
bagoh20 said...
What gives?
I guess it's the whole notion that in affluent SoCal every damn household has to be a little mansionette behind gated walls with hired help. What happens in the future, when another generation of even cheaper labor is needed because the standard has been set that stooping to menial labor is beneath them? I thing it's a fast track to a Latin American economy.
I am rather a fan of Mike Rowe.
That is the beauty of Trump that is why both sides of the duopoly needs to destroy him. Jon Stewart and Dick Cheney. Think about it.
In Cheney's case, I think he's just angling for some kind of public service in a Bush III Administration. He's a loyal Bush family "Tom Hagen."
"Moreover, they feel great about doing it because they believe they're helping third world people get a better life."
Yeah, isn't that great. You put money in your pocket by paying slave wages AND you feel morally superior. Cool. Its like worshiping God and Mammon.
Reminds me of how stupid the Old Robber Barons of the 19th century were. They'd bring in the Chinese or whoever to bust unions and work for 10 cents an hour. When people complained all they could come up with was "Survival of the fittest" or "to hell with you". If they'd had any brains they would have told everybody they were busting unions in order to provide foreigners a "better life".
As for the deletions apparent in this thread, I am grateful to Meade for reposting his posts; this allowed me to read them as google captured them and sent them to me. Not so for Spinelli's remarks because they happened before my first comment.
Some of us have our bête noires who are frequently deleted from the record: Troop has his Meade; Althouse has her "Mary", and I have Titus.
"What happens in the future, when another generation of even cheaper labor is needed because the standard has been set that stooping to menial labor is beneath them?"
You mean when the gardeners finally get their hard earned piece of the American dream, and have the ability to do what they want with their time rather than what they must. I think we call that success and upward mobility, and it's a good thing, an American thing, and it's perfectly normal and healthy.
At one point I fired my gardening company, did it all myself, just out of sheer frugality until I met my current gardener. He was very unhappy and unhealthy at his $25/hour job. I convinced him to start a gardening business, and I was his first customer. He quit his job, went to school to learn landscaping and now makes a good living with his own business. No type of work is beneath me, I'd just prefer to help someone else and use the time to do what I enjoy or excel at. Division of labor and economy of scale is how a people rise out of the stone age. I'm often admonished by my employees to get off the production for and go do what they need from me rather than taking their work, and they are right. Hire a gardener and spend your time doing what you do that he can't. We'll all be better off.
The concierge in my building in Bulgarian....and hot.
At one point I fired my gardening company, did it all myself, just out of sheer frugality until I met my current gardener. He was very unhappy and unhealthy at his $25/hour job. I convinced him to start a gardening business, and I was his first customer. He quit his job, went to school to learn landscaping and now makes a good living with his own business. No type of work is beneath me, I'd just prefer to help someone else and use the time to do what I enjoy or excel at. Division of labor and economy of scale is how a people rise out of the stone age. I'm often admonished by my employees to get off the production for and go do what they need from me rather than taking their work, and they are right. Hire a gardener and spend your time doing what you do that he can't. We'll all be better off.
Right on Bago. We do the same. It is basically a cost benefit analysis type of decision. My husband is self employed and his time is worth anywhere from $90 to $175 an hour (depending on the job). While I usually do most of the light stuff there are many things that I am just not strong enough or willing to do. Why should he do yard maintenance when he can hire someone to do it for $20 an hour and continue on with his business. The benefit versus the cost rules that we hire someone.
Then that someone gets a job, and like you we helped him start his own small business. I even printed business cards and invoices for him to use and sent him to our accountant.
ON the other thread about Trump I remarked that what he is doing in his speeches, manipulation of the media and the GOPe, is basic business 101. The ART OF THE DEAL. Salesmanship. He is controlling the message and trolling the media.
Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) has a series of blog posts about the corporate methods that Trump is using. Interesting reading and will help us understand what is going on.
I'm in awe of The Donald's skill and how he is playing the game.
Here is one article about it and a link to other Scott Adams articles.
https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/10/06/donald-trump-is-a-master-wizard
Instead of a "New Deal" slogan, Trump's should be "The Real Deal."
There's a double entendre in there.
@DBQ and Bags: No need to lecture me on the basic economics of hiring the cheapest labor. I think what you're both missing is that in a borderless nation, there will be an essentially endless supply of cheaper labor.
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