He will redefine it as those traveling back from dangerous countries at the least, and he may also limit it to non-citizens. Otherwise it's a losing position. Actually, it won't cost him as much support as it should.
Bago.....this is the art of the deal. Your opening gambit is always one that you have no real hope of achieving. Trump knows it is impossible to prevent Citizens...legal citizens from leaving or re-entering the U.S.
The opening gambit is to get their (your opponent and your supporters) attention. Once you have their attention, then you can talk, negotiate and come up with less than half of what you opened with. This then gets you what you wanted in the first place, because you KNEW that your opening gambit was impossible, ridiculous and would never be accepted.
Your opponent thinks he has won because you didn't get what you asked for...but you have won because you got what you want. Everyone is happy.
Everyone should read The Art of War by Sun Tzu. This is exactly what Donald Trump is doing and what the art of the deal is all about. This why he is a successful business man.
You are exactly right DBQ. That is how you make a deal. You start at the point that no Muslims be let in. Obama starts with the idea that every Muslim especially terrorists have to be let in. You meet somewhere in the middle where at least some of these terrorists are excluded. Like all of the immigrants from Syria for example. Plus Trimp said that Congress had to look at it. That is a hell of a lot more than Obama ever does.
Do you think Cngress would be forced to enact reasonable limits up Trump lead the charge and got the public behind him?
If there are a couple more terror attacks by immigrants he will win. And you know that there will be more attacks. And they will be people let in by visas or illegal immigrants.
Trump knows how to make deals. He can make deals that chip away at important parts of Hillary's support.
Here's an example. Trump could go after the black vote. He doesn't need a lot. Just 25% or so to flip some states. What if he goes out in a politically incorrect way and convinces blacks that Illiegal immigrants are stealing jobs that blacks should be getting. Do you think he could get 25% of the vote? Or at least get them to stay home and not vote for Hillary.
The benefit of that strategy is that it is true and everyone knows it.
It's an election - not a negotiation. The opposition will use the most unreasonable position he states and beat him with it. What's he gonna say later "I was just kidding."? They usually have to make it up, but not with Trump. If he's willing to step on the Constitution to do what I want, then he'll do for it what I don't. Why ever vote for a Republican again if they don't respect the Constitution any more than the Dems? It's one of the few ways they are superior to Dems.
So we're hoping for more attacks so we can violate our own Constitution so that Trump can win so that he can show them elites what's up. I'm not on board with that.
You need to calm down bags. Trump wants to take a break on Muslim immigration until Congress can find a way to implement vetting procedures to stop or at least have a chance to stop terrorists like the Boston Marathon bombers or San Beradino terror wife from waltzing in to our country. He is suggesting that he work with Congress. What's wrong with that?
Oh that Congress does not want to protect us? That they are more afraid of the politically correct police than terrorists that want to kill people because they had a Christmas party.
It's an election - not a negotiation. The opposition will use the most unreasonable position he states and beat him with it. What's he gonna say later "I was just kidding."?
OF course it is a negotiation. Everything is a negotiation. He is negotiating for the votes by presenting topics and ideas that have been forbidden to be discussed by the PC police. Will he lose some votes and supporters, probably. But the deal is that he thinks, and I do too, that there are many more votes out there to be had by putting on the table, topics and ideas that appeal to the voters. They also know this is a negotiation and that the initial offer (suggestions on immigration) are just a suggestion and up for negotiation.
The opposition will, as always, exaggerate and distort what he said. Trump didn't say forever stop Muslim immigration. He said temporarily. He put an idea out there and DID say that Congress would have to look at it. Unlike Obama who states that he doesn't need Congress because he has a phone and a pen. Just as he did not say that we need a registry of ALL Muslims but rather for those that are entering the country. That all muslim thing was said by the press who then tried to put words into his mouth. He didn't say All illegals from Mexico are criminals, but the press made it as if he did.
Trump's campaign said in a statement such a ban should stand "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." I find this proposal quite reasonable.
This is the gambit. Say something that your opponents can rabidly seize upon and distort. Then....walk back the remarks and point out how unreasonable they are being. Suddenly you seem to be the reasonable person who is willing to make some concessions.
Trump KNOWS that it is Unconstitutional to prevent (without clear evidence of a crime or danger to the public .....potential terrorist) citizens from reentering the country. He never expects this to be a serious proposal.
The other part of the deal/gambit is to force your opponents to talk about the issues and topics that YOU raise and be in control of the conversation.
Geez. This is business 101 and politics at its most masterful. It doesn't mean that we need to agree with Trump, but if you want to win a negotiation with anyone, you must understand the dance and be aware of how you are being manipulated.
In addition, it is interesting that those people who have no compunction (not you Bago) over gutting the 2nd Amendment,abandoning due process and stomping all over the the 1st Amendment are the ones who are crying the loudest over Unconstitutional Donald Trump.
Why do I need to calm down? I'm not the one calling for violating citizens rights, discriminating against an entire religion, hoping for an attack like a gun grabbing fanatic, or blowing the Repubs chance at an easy win this time, all just so this guy can give it a go. It's like he's Mohammed or something with you guys. Take your knee pads off, and step away from the gas can.
I can only imagine what principles we will throw out and what bullshit we will accept if there is another attack. Just one small example is that we are still all going through hell 14 years after 9/11 just to fly on a plane, and it's well proven that the TSA doesn't stop anyone from taking weapons on a plane. Millions of lost hours and billions of dollars wasted for absolutely nothing. That's just one of the many total failures we have accepted and can now never get rid of. This is all gonna end with even bigger government with more waste and less freedom for us all, and we will still get attacked anytime they want.
I just want to be able to carry a gun, and I want ISIS destroyed. That's all I want. Increase my freedom and eliminate theirs.
Nobody is hoping for an attack. We just know it is going to happen. It is a certainty. People are all for violating all of our rights with electronic surveillance but taking the time to vet immigrants who want to kill us like this broad in San Bernardino is just to horrible to contemplate?
Why do all of you guys who hate Trump so much make it sexual? Spinelli does the same thing all the time. It is very telling you know.
Just like the White House making fun of Trump's hair. You guys are getting silly.
That is exactly the point bags. The politically correct want to search little old ladies or old white men like me. And not target or better yet profile the people who are committing the terrorist acts.
I'm fine with serious vetting of immigrants with special scrutiny for Muslims and vastly reduced numbers coming in, as well as surveillance of suspicious mosques, but treating all Muslims including citizens like threats is beyond the pale.
The government can't protect us from these attacks. Any one of us could blow up a building, poison a water supply, or spray gunfire in a theater tomorrow if we wanted. That will continue to happen by Islamists, and others like Timothy McVeigh (168 dead), or James Holmes (12 dead - 70 injured), etc, etc. The only question is how much will we punish ourselves to have abundant security theater?
Kill ISIS and arm Americans. That's the strategy that will actually save lives rather than just pretending to.
I'm not hating on Trump. I am hating the idea that anything he says is just fine, because we hate the other guys. That's how we got Obama, and that's how tin pot dictators are created.
Trump is playing you. He doesn't care about this stuff or the principles that make this nation special. He just wants to win. You know damned well that's all he cares about. He's driven by the glory and personal victory of a President Trump. Then what?
Trump is changing the playing field. He is setting the terms of the debate. Now people are talking about limits on immigration of terrorists. Something the politically correct wouldn't even allow to be mentioned. That is who is getting played. The media. Obama. Obama voters.
That's all great as long as the goalposts being moved aren't toward even greater Presidential power. Obama has already moved that down the field behind his own unchallenging fanboys.
25 comments:
Too far. He will walk it back or lose.
He will redefine it as those traveling back from dangerous countries at the least, and he may also limit it to non-citizens. Otherwise it's a losing position. Actually, it won't cost him as much support as it should.
Too far. He will walk it back or lose.
Bago.....this is the art of the deal. Your opening gambit is always one that you have no real hope of achieving. Trump knows it is impossible to prevent Citizens...legal citizens from leaving or re-entering the U.S.
The opening gambit is to get their (your opponent and your supporters) attention. Once you have their attention, then you can talk, negotiate and come up with less than half of what you opened with. This then gets you what you wanted in the first place, because you KNEW that your opening gambit was impossible, ridiculous and would never be accepted.
Your opponent thinks he has won because you didn't get what you asked for...but you have won because you got what you want. Everyone is happy.
Everyone should read The Art of War by Sun Tzu. This is exactly what Donald Trump is doing and what the art of the deal is all about. This why he is a successful business man.
Masterful!
You are exactly right DBQ. That is how you make a deal. You start at the point that no Muslims be let in. Obama starts with the idea that every Muslim especially terrorists have to be let in. You meet somewhere in the middle where at least some of these terrorists are excluded. Like all of the immigrants from Syria for example. Plus Trimp said that Congress had to look at it. That is a hell of a lot more than Obama ever does.
Do you think Cngress would be forced to enact reasonable limits up Trump lead the charge and got the public behind him?
None of it is masterful is he cannot beat Hillary. Right now some polls show Trump losing to Hillary.
If there are a couple more terror attacks by immigrants he will win. And you know that there will be more attacks. And they will be people let in by visas or illegal immigrants.
Trump knows how to make deals. He can make deals that chip away at important parts of Hillary's support.
Here's an example. Trump could go after the black vote. He doesn't need a lot. Just 25% or so to flip some states. What if he goes out in a politically incorrect way and convinces blacks that Illiegal immigrants are stealing jobs that blacks should be getting. Do you think he could get 25% of the vote? Or at least get them to stay home and not vote for Hillary.
The benefit of that strategy is that it is true and everyone knows it.
It's an election - not a negotiation. The opposition will use the most unreasonable position he states and beat him with it. What's he gonna say later "I was just kidding."? They usually have to make it up, but not with Trump. If he's willing to step on the Constitution to do what I want, then he'll do for it what I don't. Why ever vote for a Republican again if they don't respect the Constitution any more than the Dems? It's one of the few ways they are superior to Dems.
So we're hoping for more attacks so we can violate our own Constitution so that Trump can win so that he can show them elites what's up. I'm not on board with that.
"Yes, those Atlantic City deals were spectacular."
They were for Trump. He made a lot of money and he left other people holding the bag.
Don't you want the Muslims terrorists left holding the bag? Or do you want to be fair to them like your boy Obama?
When you want to win you get yourself a good Jew Lawyer who will do what it takes to win.
That's Trump.
You need to calm down bags. Trump wants to take a break on Muslim immigration until Congress can find a way to implement vetting procedures to stop or at least have a chance to stop terrorists like the Boston Marathon bombers or San Beradino terror wife from waltzing in to our country. He is suggesting that he work with Congress. What's wrong with that?
Oh that Congress does not want to protect us? That they are more afraid of the politically correct police than terrorists that want to kill people because they had a Christmas party.
It's an election - not a negotiation. The opposition will use the most unreasonable position he states and beat him with it. What's he gonna say later "I was just kidding."?
OF course it is a negotiation. Everything is a negotiation. He is negotiating for the votes by presenting topics and ideas that have been forbidden to be discussed by the PC police. Will he lose some votes and supporters, probably. But the deal is that he thinks, and I do too, that there are many more votes out there to be had by putting on the table, topics and ideas that appeal to the voters. They also know this is a negotiation and that the initial offer (suggestions on immigration) are just a suggestion and up for negotiation.
The opposition will, as always, exaggerate and distort what he said. Trump didn't say forever stop Muslim immigration. He said temporarily. He put an idea out there and DID say that Congress would have to look at it. Unlike Obama who states that he doesn't need Congress because he has a phone and a pen. Just as he did not say that we need a registry of ALL Muslims but rather for those that are entering the country. That all muslim thing was said by the press who then tried to put words into his mouth. He didn't say All illegals from Mexico are criminals, but the press made it as if he did.
Trump's campaign said in a statement such a ban should stand "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." I find this proposal quite reasonable.
This is the gambit. Say something that your opponents can rabidly seize upon and distort. Then....walk back the remarks and point out how unreasonable they are being. Suddenly you seem to be the reasonable person who is willing to make some concessions.
Trump KNOWS that it is Unconstitutional to prevent (without clear evidence of a crime or danger to the public .....potential terrorist) citizens from reentering the country. He never expects this to be a serious proposal.
The other part of the deal/gambit is to force your opponents to talk about the issues and topics that YOU raise and be in control of the conversation.
Geez. This is business 101 and politics at its most masterful. It doesn't mean that we need to agree with Trump, but if you want to win a negotiation with anyone, you must understand the dance and be aware of how you are being manipulated.
In addition, it is interesting that those people who have no compunction (not you Bago) over gutting the 2nd Amendment,abandoning due process and stomping all over the the 1st Amendment are the ones who are crying the loudest over Unconstitutional Donald Trump.
You have to use their tactics against them. Not listen to Obama voters like Spinelli who want you to play fair and let the Democrats call the tune.
Trump is both trolling them and playing the angles. Some people are just too dumb to see it.
Why do I need to calm down? I'm not the one calling for violating citizens rights, discriminating against an entire religion, hoping for an attack like a gun grabbing fanatic, or blowing the Repubs chance at an easy win this time, all just so this guy can give it a go. It's like he's Mohammed or something with you guys. Take your knee pads off, and step away from the gas can.
I can only imagine what principles we will throw out and what bullshit we will accept if there is another attack. Just one small example is that we are still all going through hell 14 years after 9/11 just to fly on a plane, and it's well proven that the TSA doesn't stop anyone from taking weapons on a plane. Millions of lost hours and billions of dollars wasted for absolutely nothing. That's just one of the many total failures we have accepted and can now never get rid of. This is all gonna end with even bigger government with more waste and less freedom for us all, and we will still get attacked anytime they want.
I just want to be able to carry a gun, and I want ISIS destroyed. That's all I want. Increase my freedom and eliminate theirs.
Nobody is hoping for an attack. We just know it is going to happen. It is a certainty. People are all for violating all of our rights with electronic surveillance but taking the time to vet immigrants who want to kill us like this broad in San Bernardino is just to horrible to contemplate?
Why do all of you guys who hate Trump so much make it sexual? Spinelli does the same thing all the time. It is very telling you know.
Just like the White House making fun of Trump's hair. You guys are getting silly.
That is exactly the point bags. The politically correct want to search little old ladies or old white men like me. And not target or better yet profile the people who are committing the terrorist acts.
It is just like stop and frisk. Same deal.
I'm fine with serious vetting of immigrants with special scrutiny for Muslims and vastly reduced numbers coming in, as well as surveillance of suspicious mosques, but treating all Muslims including citizens like threats is beyond the pale.
The government can't protect us from these attacks. Any one of us could blow up a building, poison a water supply, or spray gunfire in a theater tomorrow if we wanted. That will continue to happen by Islamists, and others like Timothy McVeigh (168 dead), or James Holmes (12 dead - 70 injured), etc, etc. The only question is how much will we punish ourselves to have abundant security theater?
Kill ISIS and arm Americans. That's the strategy that will actually save lives rather than just pretending to.
I'm not hating on Trump. I am hating the idea that anything he says is just fine, because we hate the other guys. That's how we got Obama, and that's how tin pot dictators are created.
Trump is playing you. He doesn't care about this stuff or the principles that make this nation special. He just wants to win. You know damned well that's all he cares about. He's driven by the glory and personal victory of a President Trump. Then what?
Trump is changing the playing field. He is setting the terms of the debate. Now people are talking about limits on immigration of terrorists. Something the politically correct wouldn't even allow to be mentioned. That is who is getting played. The media. Obama. Obama voters.
Moving the goalposts.
Fire with fire bags. Fire with fire.
That's all great as long as the goalposts being moved aren't toward even greater Presidential power. Obama has already moved that down the field behind his own unchallenging fanboys.
The horse is out of the barn bags. It's running down the road. We either ride it or get ridden over. Its that simple.
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