"We want to thank all of you for your prayers and support. The family has spent much time in prayer since learning of A&E's decision. We want you to know that first and foremost we are a family rooted in our faith in God and our belief that the Bible is His word. While some of Phil’s unfiltered comments to the reporter were coarse, his beliefs are grounded in the teachings of the Bible," reads a statement posted on the family's Duck Commander website. "Phil is a Godly man who follows what the Bible says are the greatest commandments: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart' and 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Phil would never incite or encourage hate. We are disappointed that Phil has been placed on hiatus for expressing his faith, which is his constitutionally protected right. We have had a successful working relationship with A&E but, as a family, we cannot imagine the show going forward without our patriarch at the helm. We are in discussions with A&E to see what that means for the future of Duck Dynasty. Again, thank you for your continued support of our family."
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.
Once more we are met on a great battlefield of that war.
Who thinks freedom is a pretty darn good thing?
245 comments:
1 – 200 of 245 Newer› Newest»I, for one, welcome our new gay overlords.
Other than some contractual thing; I doubt the Robertson's owe A&E anything. The smart thing for them to do is walk away from A&E. The show is them, they are the talent. If they still want to make the show, someone will pick them up. GLAAD didn't hurt Chick-Fil-A; they sure as hell won't hurt Duck Commander. What they succeeded in doing is hurting A&E.
Keep flogging the Arts and Entertainment channel, GLAAD! Way to go.
Which direction do I point my rabbit ears to find this channel? Or perhaps, do I need more aluminum foil?
Just sing a show tune and A&E magically appears.
A&E is learning that they cannot serve two masters, their god and mammon.
Which god do they love more, money or leftism?
Everybody's loving this. A&E, the Ducks, the audience. It's all just part of the hipster show.
Exactly phx. There is no such thing as bad publicity in the tv rankings biz.
So far only Palin and Cruz have stood up for Robertson's freedom of speech and religion. Dead silence from the Republican Establishment.
Pogo@8;59/
I made this point on another thread, but there is a lesson here for those who espouse the belief that Communist China will never go to war with America because the two nations are so financially intertwined via int trade&commerce that a war would be economically self destructive for the Chinese. This A&E fiasco proves that ideology/cultural imperatives often trump logic and financial reality. With the LGBT community being only 1.7% of the US population and America being nominally >70% Christian the economics were overwhelming in favor of those viewers holding Christian beliefs. Probably<that 90% of the 1,7% of the LGBT crowd watched the show anyway, so how serious could an LGBT boycott threat be financially? Yet the A&E leadership killed the golden goose (or at least severely mangled it) anyway--sacrificed upon the alter of PC. Does anyone think the leadership of Communist China is immune to the same pressures that strongly-held ideological beliefs bring? That such pressures cannot trump economic reality? Remember, France was Germany's largest trading partner prior to both WW I AND WW II. So much for economic ties serving as restraints on military expansion/conquest..
PS: And remember, the Nomenklatura--whether they be Chinese, Russian or the suits at A&E--ALWAYS think they will still come out on top on the other side no matter how million lives and/or dollars are lost--insulated as they are by party bomb-shelters or golden parachutes..
So far only Palin and Cruz have stood up for Robertson's freedom of speech and religion. Dead silence from the Republican Establishment.
That's all we need to make this sidesplitting. To have the Republican Establishment weigh in on this important issue.
Sidesplitting? The joke's going to be on you and your fellow lefties in 2014, phx. Not that the Republicans will have done anything to deserve the rout that's coming. Just the boys in the band have gone too far.
Robertson called virtually all sex outside of marriage sinful, yet only one group took offense, and only small part of that group. There is one thing that makes that small group special - hate. Yet, that is who A&E listened to for programming decisions. Stupid and hateful is all it is.
And, yes it is important, and here's why: Last night I watched people on major news channels representing the left repeatedly describe how freedom of speech didn't include the right to say things that they didn't agree with. They didn't just allude to that = they confirmed it after being challenged over and over. Much of the left simply does not accept the Bill of Rights as law, and specifically the most important rights in it. Because of that, they don't deserve to live under them, and they can't be trusted with political power. That's the lesson the country is learning every day of the last five years with accelerating regularity. The left is at it's core totalitarian, and very dangerous as totalitarians always are.
Last night I watched people on major news channels representing the left repeatedly describe how freedom of speech didn't include the right to say things that they didn't agree with. They didn't just allude to that = they confirmed it after being challenged over and over.
I'm certain you saw that.
Government's interference in the Ducks' right to free speech has been intolerable. We need to statements out from all the major Republican spokespersons.
The way you can tell that this is not good for the left is that lefties will now start saying how unimportant it is. How many times have we seen that tactic lately? They break the public trust in unprecedented ways and then say: calm down it's nothing. "What difference at this point does it make?"
"
I'm certain you saw that."
So you are admitting that such a thing would be seriously wrong? It's just that I'm a liar. Yea, I'd go with that too if I was you. It makes me the problem rather than what actually happened. How about if I just claim that Robertson never said what he did. That should make it all go away.
Now the left (John Stewart for one) is making fun of the Right for caring about free speech. See, it's not something to be protected, it's a stupid thing that stupid people care about.
Probably people were saying "freedom of speech doesn't include saying whatever you want and still getting to keep your network tv contract."
I can see how you would confuse that for leftists saying "freedom of speech didn't include the right to say things that they didn't agree with."
Bagoh20 I never think you're lying. I think you are such hard-core idealogue that you often can't think straight about these things.
Probably people were saying....
So you don't know what they were saying? You missed a wonderful display of fascism from the lefties
Phx you are dead wrong on this one.
I hope A&E gets what's coming to them. Good and hard.
Michael, Troop, are you guys saying this guys' civil rights were violated?
If not, where's the beef?
Discrimination against Christians is perfectly ok is the theme.
Unless GLAAD has a theological division, it’s in no place to dictate Christian values. But that won’t stop it from trying.
The end game for GLAAD and its allies is among the most intolerant goals possible: They want to drive all Christians and Christian values and ideas from the public square in America. They want to persecute and oppress.
They admitted as much when they supported Robertson’s suspension for saying something that they didn’t like.
3% of the population wants to dictate what can and cannot be said by the other 97%. It is nothing more than fascism.
No Phx, just like Obama never qualified his "you can keep your insurance" lie, the lefties I saw were not saying it like that. They were saying you have no right to say "hateful things", period. It's clear this is a principle of the left, as in places where they have control it's illegal, like Europe, Canada, China, North Korea, A&E, etc.
Yes his rights were violated. He has a right to give his views of his faith without losing his job. He did not try to force them onto his program. He said them in an interview.
Let's change it around. I think the Black Muslims and Scientologists are basically crazy and somewhat dangerous in their beliefs. Should they lose their jobs if they talk about their religion?
Or is it only if they offend the gay mafia?
Yes his rights were violated. He has a right to give his views of his faith without losing his job.
Well I guess A&E will sure have to pony up after the suit, huh?
I'll bet it's worth every penny to everyone involved!
Free speech is not just the government shutting you down. Free speech means you can say what you believe.
Of course A&E can suspend or fire Phil because he believes in a Christian faith and talks about it. They don't have to agree with him. They can think he is dead wrong. But if they punish him then the rest of us committed Christians need to punish them in a meaningful way.
We are in a way here.
Sorry I meant to say we are in a war here.
Or a bad way.
But the time for laying down and taking it from the politically correct must end.
But if they punish him then the rest of us committed Christians need to punish them in a meaningful way.
You probably know I don't have any problem with this at all.
I don't think Phil will win a lawsuit. You can't trust lawyers. What committed Christians and religious people of all denominations should do is work together to drive A&E out of business.
We need a backlash of tsunami like proportions
Just because what A&E did was legal does not mean it's ethical, fair or right. The thing to learn here is how people act with the power they have, because it's very important to know what kind of people you may be giving even more power to.
I have no problem being a "hard core ideologue", because my ideology includes freedom of speech, association and other freedoms that make my type less dangerous with power. Yea, I'm hard core like that.
A&E is running a show with segments about what people put in their anuses. Classy outfit.
I'm starting to like these people.
Trooper York said...
Yes his rights were violated. He has a right to give his views of his faith without losing his job. He did not try to force them onto his program. He said them in an interview.
Exactly. Some will say free speech only applies to criticizing government, but, if using "hate speech" can get you thrown in jail (and it can), then this is a free speech issue.
The Lefties have been trying to stifle what we can say for 20 years and people have had enough, it would seem.
This is turning into Chick-Fil-A II
Nice Solzhenitsyn reference in your first comment, Pogo.
&E is running a show with segments about what people put in their anuses. Classy outfit.
Say, didn't we just do that here?
I have never watched the show. And I have all the uber cable channels. Don't even know where to find it for the mega marathon of the show to run this weekend.
Oh, wait....say what?
I'm afraid the cynic in me is too much...I call bullshit on both A&E and the Duck crew.
This is almost as funny a "set-up" as those on "Hardcore Pawn" about a Detroit pawn shop...that I've watched a few times until the Negroes behaving badly theme grew tiring.
It is absolutely astounding how much "play" this issue has gotten in so few days. No one on Madison Avenue could have scripted it better.
Maybe it's time for a T-shirt.
"Hey, A&E, Duck you"
That's all we need to make this sidesplitting. To have the Republican Establishment weigh in on this important issue
Actually, it is an important issue.
Freedom of speech. The right to express even an unpopular opinion without being pilloried in the public square. The ability to express yourself without fear of retaliation and loss of livelihood.
I really couldn't care less about Duck Dynasty. I have never seen the show and am not likely to ever see it. I detest all reality shows. I really could NOT care less about gay issues, other than the stridently militant gays are just annoying. I am not a strongly religious person either and don't have strong beliefs on the absolute veracity of the 'written word' in the Bible.
However, I do have strong beliefs in freedom of expression and freedom of THOUGHT. When we are oppressed by the thought police and are unable to speak our minds without fear.....we are no longer a free people.
This IS an important issue.
So you guys seem to say that the employers rights to hire and fire at will are trumped by the employees rights to say what they want. And this is the test case you are going with.
Sounds ridiculous to me but you have a right to your opinion, and I wouldn't fire you for it! Of course, whether I'd hire you to begin with.... : D
just teasin...
A&E should have never entered the fray to begin with considering that Phil's comments were made outside of their purview. But they did, because their slavish catering to a mere 2% - 4% of the population, with a much less percentage of them even watching A&E shows is going to cost them the best show they ever had. Ever. Idiots. Do any homosexuals watch DD? I don't think so? Does anyone from GLAAD?
Don't pretend density, Phx. Of course they can fire him. The discussion is about whether they should, whether it's fair and ethical, and what people really think about our rights to disagree. Yes, it's very important. The show is trivial, the issue is not. You will understand this some day if you ever get fired for saying what you believe, but of course when you only say the safe things, you only have to worry about who has the power today. Tomorrow is another day.
Look at phx - pretending to have the ability to hire someone.
That's so cute.
Employers have an absolute ability to hire and fire at will. And to suffer the consequences of their actions.
If A&E fired someone because they were black or gay I bet you would be singing a different tune phx.
It is a little embarrassing to find yourself on the wrong side of the fence just because you followed the wrong people.
Things go in a cycle. The politically correct pro-alternative lifestyle forces have been on a long winning streak. But no streak lasts forever. The reaction is going to come sooner or later and I don't think it will be pretty.
This might have been the straw that breaks the duck's back.
Sounds ridiculous to me but you have a right to your opinion, and I wouldn't fire you for it! Of course, whether I'd hire you to begin with.... : D
Under labor laws. You do have a right to tell your employees to not express opinions ON COMPANY time or when representing the company. For instance when I was working in a financial institution, we were forbidden to wear political campaign buttons at work or even discuss the political aspects of a campaign. We were not allowed to express political opinions at work. Our personal and private time, another issue. You can do what you want as long as you aren't representing the Company. It can be a rather gray area as to whether people see you as representing the company. For instance when I was a stock broker working for a nationally known name, people tended to associate me with the brokerage so I did need to be somewhat less publicly involved.....not just for the company's sake but also for my own business. That was MY personal choice, however.
The topic didn't come up, but I am sure we would have been forbidden to proselytize religion or to express our opinions about homosexuality at work. AT WORK. And if giving a seminar or other function that represented the financial institution, we were similarly restricted. If you violated this, the company has every right to fire you.
Your employment cannot be denied because of personal views that you hold. It just cannot be directly denied because you are an anti-gay activist or that you are a pro-gay activist. You cannot be denied work because you are Catholic, Muslim, Scientologist, or for any other religious affiliation.
However, the employer CAN find other reasons to not hire you :-) Unless you can prove that the real reason was prejudicial then you are S.O.L.
The issue is not just A&E as an employer, who may or may not have the right to fire the guy from the show and who certainly have the right to cancel the show if they want. That would be a business decision and should be predicated on monetary reasoning. People are not watching anymore and they are losing money....fine....cancel the show. It is rather the activism of a small minority of people who object to "incorrect thinking" and want to destroy a person for having "incorrect thoughts" and speaking those thoughts.
Serious question: Can anyone tell what makes all these "reality shows" entertaining? Is it the absurd unreality of them?
Is it a form of silent mockery of those "not like us" or what? The one I cited above is blatantly "Negroes behaving badly" for 90% of its scripting...so, where is the outcry for that? Or, is it considered "cute" and thus exempt?
Quite frankly, Ice Cube's movie "Friday" was far more entertaining, tongue in cheek realistic, and actually artistic in its reliance on dialog with few sets.
This television reality meme ... I just do not get it.
That's the crux of the matter DBQ.
These were his private personal views that were not expressed at his workplace. If A&E is that disdainful of traditional Christian doctrine then they should fire him. Christians and traditional minded people should make their viewing and purchasing decisions accordingly.
Every sponsor should be contacted and beaten to a pulp. If traditional Christians are serious they should render onto Caesar as hard as they can.
Other than the talking heads portion, reality shows are not scripted per se. They set up a shot and then you improvise. They keep filming. They tell what "beats" to hit.
For example they wanted every girl on our show to cry. We fought against that and were successful some of the time. But when they control the editing there is little you can do.
Reality shows are a cheaper alternative to scripted TV. What they try to do is take you somewhere you would never go yourself. Ice road truckers, Alaska State Troopers, Jersey Guido's at the Club or chubby girls trying on clothes. It is taking into someone else's world for a visit.
Another question: I've seen the Duck Dynasty crew members mentioned as "employees" a couple of time here now.
Are they in fact employees, in accord with FLSA, NLRB, and IRS guidelines? Or are they contractors performing for stipends?
Hard Core Pawn is reality. That is what pawn shop customers are really like.
They will sell you the gold out of their mouth to go to the casino.
I know it is distasteful. But it is reality. The reality of Detroit where the show is based. The family interaction is mainly bullshit but the customers ring true.
You have a choice when you sign for a show. You can get a W-2 and just be an employee with taxes taken out. What most people do is have a corporation set up where the payments are made so you can throw expenses against it. I bet that is what the Duck people do.
Of course you have a contract with the production company which has rules you have to follow. Such as not starting a competing program or endorsing products without approval and other caveats.
That's the crux of the matter DBQ.
These were his private personal views that were not expressed at his workplace. If A&E is that disdainful of traditional Christian doctrine then they should fire him. Christians and traditional minded people should make their viewing and purchasing decisions accordingly.
Exactly. Let the market place decide. If people are so offended that they don't want to watch the show, let them decide for themselves. If the outcry of offense is not general and is instead being 'ginned' up by a vocally militant minority and no one else gives a rat's ass...... then the show will continue on.
Just like Chic-fil-a.
Trooper York ... I do understand the idea of venturing in to worlds you might not visit otherwise. However, I don't get the absurdity of most of the visits....the "beats" as you called them.
I've been places in the world most have never been, nor wanted to visit. I have friends in others, including Africa, as we speak and I am riveted to each message I receive. I was fascinated by the experience, no need for me to project my "beats on the nationals, they had their own and that was the point of fascination.
I guess I'm a dork of the highest caliber, too dense to get it about these silly television shows. For example...I never saw your show but when you mention that the producers wanted every girl to cry that implies mockery. Why wouldn't it have been equally satisfying (as you no doubt suggested) to have some, maybe most, happy with the results, if they were chubby or not? In fact wouldn't that have served your purposes better? Remember I am clueless on this stuff.
Actual "reality" is frequently very different from what is reported or published by various outlets including the overtly political outlets.
For example: What CAIR and sundry other political activists say about my community of majority Muslims is not a "reality" for even a significant minority of Muslims here. What the various anti-Muslim outfits say isn't either. Far from it.
What ACCESS (a Muslim organization) and various local businesses do and how they are received by the Muslim community is "actual reality" and here is one example of Christmas Holidays for non-Christians, without rancor or hostility, that has been going on for 40+ years now. For the record Salinas school and the "South End" is the highest density Muslim Community here, nearly 100% while my neighborhood is about 90%.
I am confident we'll never see an honest "reality" show about how Muslims and non-Muslims actually get along and respect each other here. The tiny minority of activists on both sides of the "debate" (particularly those who don't even live here) have too much to gain by continuous acrimony (their schtick depends on it)....their noise drowns the rest of us every day folks out.
We are still a community here where people stop to help those who need help, like to push a car out of a snow ridge, in the dark. It is something I do whenever a need arises. Yes, I am cautious because some foks aren't from here, and I am armed, and yet in 30+ years living here I have never felt the anxiety precursor to reaching for my weapon. The rounds in my main carry piece are the same ones put there over 30 years ago.
That is the reality in my neighborhood. Very uninteresting I suppose.
As I said, I am dense, and stubborn.
Moving onto reality shows.....I do like and did watch American Restoration. Mainly because I am fascinated by all things mechanical and admire the ability of those guys to restore interesting objects. The are artisans and I really admire that.
However, the fake drama. The artificial time lines. The fake bidding on costs. The stupid and obviously fake conflicts between characters, left me cold. Not dramatic. Not in the least. We would pause the program at that point and then fast forward to get to the meat of the show. Stupid....cubed.
Trooper York said...
Hard Core Pawn is reality ... The reality of Detroit where the show is based ...
Please. That is projection of a publicized image, not reality. Yeah, Detroit is a tough town, one I've lived in or around most of my life, and always spent time in .... but no, the represented number of jumbo fat black women who blow their tops is not "reality". I was familiar with ole Les Gold's daddy's place (Sam's) on Michigan Ave in my college days, so I am somewhat familiar with pawn shops (like the plethora of them around Fort Bragg NC)...today's televised image wasn't reality then either.
Exactly. Let the market place decide. If people are so offended that they don't want to watch the show, let them decide for themselves.
A&E wants it both ways. They want to 'punish' Phil for his comments but keep the show and the ratings and the cash cow that it's become.
Meanwhile, this racist, homophobic website is being run by Ayo Kimathi, a Department of Homeland Security employee.
Not a peep from GLAD or any LBGT group.
The persecuted Christian pose is getting as tiresome as the persecuted gay pose.
This is a dispute between private parties; it has nothing to do with civil rights. A&E has the right to decide what they want their brand to represent, as does the Robertson enterprise. The whole threadbare vaudeville act that is the "culture war" will benefit both parties, while driving the rest of us away.
"...quit whining"
I disagree. I support endless bitching to battle the endless PC demands for conformity of belief.
I do not care if gays and lefties and PC dogmatists bitch and whine and moan about what some guy said on a show they never watch.
What is unacceptable is that now it's accompanied by a demand to fire anyone who ever disagrees with their worldview.
It's become a big fucking deal, the freedom to say things out loud. We're fast becoming a monoculture by coercion.
I say fuck that.
Duck Dynasty is running on empty at this point anyway. This will be good for them. They can play the religiously persecuted role and get a whole bunch of conservative Christians to buy their products, including a show on a different network, not because the products are good, but because of what they "represent". It's an old strategy, it works, and it's one of the things that has killed the arts: morality supplanting aesthetics, the personal is the political.
Put that in your Tupperware tea cup and drink it.
Yeah, yeah Pogo. Keep the whine long enough, it turns from a desirable vintage to a bitter vinegar. Better uncork that whine and drink up.
Now you guys know how Bob Dylan feels.
"...one of the things that has killed the arts: morality supplanting aesthetics, the personal is the political."
I fully agree.
I've never seen the Duck show, and don't care to. But I am pissed off how often political conformity is demanded everywhere: schools, businesses, TV, movies, sports, music, even art. So I complain.
My son is in film school and one assignment was to use editing software to demonstrate some special effects.
In one brief scene he used an old poster of Richard Nixon on the wall because he thought it looked strange.
He said the teacher got all excited and found all sorts of anti-right meaning in his film segment, even though it was about nothing at all.
You've been given a great gift, Mr. Robertson. A chance to see what the world would be like without you.
"Better uncork that whine and drink up."
Yes, for the silence will be richly rewarded. Someday.
What is unacceptable is that now it's accompanied by a demand to fire anyone who ever disagrees with their worldview.
Yes, this point needs constant push-back. We've seen examples of sniping from "both sides" and yet the fault is unilateral: PC sensitivity is set too high.
A lot of this discussion suffers from lack of careful distinctions.
A&E almost certainly has the right to dismiss the fellow (whose show I've never seen). The distinction about "on" or "off" company time is not a strict or universal one.
For example, schools and other institutions will have a "morals" clause; and if you violate it by various sorts of behavior deemed offensive or scandalous or whatever the legal language is, you can be dismissed, regardless whether it was "on" or "off" company time.
Also, if we're talking about "talent" and entertainment--as, well, we are--then I'm pretty sure there's a lot of leeway given in contracts. I'm not an attorney, but that's just common sense.
Say you're Jenny Craig; you hire someone to be a spokesman for your product. I'm betting you have a clause about not getting fat. Can they fire you for getting fat? I bet they can.
I'd be very surprised if A&E doesn't have this covered in its contract.
I'm not defending what they did; but I think the talk about this being a violation of his rights? I think that's incorrect.
A common feature of all three recent retaliations were PC-obsessed Networks doing the bullying: Baldwin and Bashir from MSNBC and Robertson from A&E. Throw in Paula Deen and the Food Network for another example. Offending words flow from both "sides" of the cultural split, but the disciplinary actions are unilateral. Thoughtful and honest lefties are saying "why is our first instinct to shut down speech? "
If the right wants to protect themselves against punitive economics they need to engage in it themselves. The right used to do this on a small scale based on religion. But it became frowned upon and was generally disappearing until the left decided to revive it on a political basis.
You can already see the corrosive effect political hiring has in Hollywood and academia. If you hire unbiased, but the leftists you hire in turn hire only leftists while the rights split you'll eventually end up with only leftists. You can already see the effects in big businesses, especially those that have high profiles.
The left wants to make it part of the culture that those without their views are driven from the economic mainstream.
Now, is this something indicative of a negative trend in the society? A growing intolerance?
Oh yes, no question; although it's heartening to see some liberals, even some self-identified gays, pushing back a little...
Although Andrew Sullivan's tack was to say, yeah he's a hater, but we don't have to shut him down for that reason. Not a ringing expression of tolerance.
But others have done a bit of a better job. There's a little pushback.
I really liked what Camille Paglia said--basically that this is another example of what has killed culture in this country. Too many people who can't really think anymore, just try to shout down people they don't like.
As far as what the GOP should say?
I think they'll bollux it up; besides, it's a bad idea to hitch your wagon to a loose cannon.
Mr. Robertson might any minute say something that the GOP may not want to defend.
Folks are already lashing him for a comment that -- if accurately quoted (big if!) -- seems to be tone-deaf about life in the Jim-Crow South for black people.
Being tone deaf on such things isn't a good thing, but it's not, to my mind, a capital offense. But it's hard to see why the GOP needs to die on that particular hill.
If you want a political response, howsabout this?
Support de-bundling of cable channels. Good idea regardless.
Why shouldn't you be able to select the channels you want, and drop the ones you don't?
Interesting coalition of rent-seekers opposing that one.
Personally I see it as another PR nightmare for the GOP.
Please don't yell at me for putting this in the context of mere partisanship, as if it were a football game. To a huge extent that's the reality of it.
If some of you wanted to make the argument that employees rights to speech deserve greater protection in the employment marketplace (arguing that there should be greater regulation on corporations and all), I personally think you should have done so behind a more universally sympathetic personage. Lindsay Lohan or somebody.
I'm pretty sure a lot of lefties are sounding pretty shrill themselves, overall I believe Robertson's cheerleaders are going to come across as merely partisan rather than sincerely concerned about "free speech." The right will lose another round because they don't understand or care about the optics.
Am I the only one here who watched "Duck Dynasty"? I liked the show at first; my dislike of it came only after over-production, poor writing and ludicrous product placement ruined what I thought made the show charming in early episodes.
What irritates me about this affair is not Phil Robertson's opinions (which I don't agree with, but find unremarkable and generally inoffensive), but the general "theater of outrage" and dishonest politicization that accompanies these news-cycle-created controversies.
Seriously, that POLITICIANS are involved in this nonsense should disgust all sentient Americans.
Everyone currently involved in US politics should be summarily fired and banished to Elba.
The priest and the Palladian agree once again.
Not that it never happens...
"The right will lose another round because they don't understand or care about the optics."
The left cares only about the 'optics', and doesn't give a flying fuck about the PC fascism Paglia derided.
Everyone currently involved in US politics should be summarily fired and banished to Elba.
Skip Elba and send them directly to Saint Helena.
Agree with Palladian on that Elba thingy as well.
The PC scolds and Gay hall monitors are the assholes I'm more concerned with. They've made everything a political issue.
Everything, including grade school and stupid TV shows.
Silence is viewed by them as agreement and compliance.
Hey....what do you guys have against Elba?
I did not imagine this blog would welcome anti-elbites.
Elba's are one of my favorite macaroni.
Really good with cheese melted in the oven. Emmmmm....Tasty!
Hey Palladian how about a recipe for Elba's Cheese. Maybe with bacon. Now that's good stuff.
"...what do you guys have against Elba?"
Well, I was able ere I saw it.
You are exactly right Aridog. The worthless scumbags who run TV are always trying to make fun of you when you are in a reality show. You are in it to promote your business and try to speak over their head directly to the audience.
They don't want "real" reality. I gave them plenty of "real" stories but they wanted bullshit and there was nothing I could do to stop them.
You can read a contemporaneous account on my blog. I would be happy to have you as a member. Just email me at trooperyork@hotmail.com and I will set you up. Thanks.
Oh and that was Elba's and cheese.
Preferably Velveeta. I know that is Palladian's favorite.
I know a good hidden beach on Elba.
Velveeta was on the gourmet food aisle in a grocery store in Chico.
And may God Bless you, Herb Caen, wherever you are...
National Velveeta was a favorite kid's movie, too.
What a friend we have in cheeses!
Palladian,
The outrage and and over-the-top whining is from that part of the gay community that does it for a living. That's what the right is bitching about here: that this small bunch of very loud whiners can take away something millions want and enjoy, and they do it just by whining. What would you do if that happened to something you were enjoying? You wouldn't bitch about it? You'd just shut up and take it? Somehow I don't think so.
The reason this is about civil rights is that the people are preventing others from simply expressing ideas, and they are doing it through economic terrorism. They are not simply refusing to buy the product, they are insisting it not be available for anyone.
We shouldn't shut up. We should speak loudly by calling the network and demanding they reverse their decision. Or the sponsors.
A&E should pay a price. A big price.
@bagoh20
They're the monocultural puritanical kommissars stomping out thoughtcrimes.
If Duck Dynasty has become as awful as Palladian says it has, the Robertson family should leave A&E -- find another network. Regroup or retire. At this point, they owe A&E nothing except what is stipulated in contracts. Their fans will understand and will blame A&E who has spoken very plainly that they don't need DD fans. A&E gets more airtime for gay-friendlier programing and the Robertson clan lands unfettered elsewhere. Everybody wins.
I'm not even a fan of the show but I have to admire the way that Robertson family sticks together for each other. It's the most resilient entity and perfectly suited to stand up against the anti-family face of Hollywood.
As I said up stream, the Duckmaster General's statement called a lot of peoples' behavior sinful, not just gays, and the gays were included in a way that implied they were the least sinful, but only the gays got their panties in bunch over it.
Gays were just a few years ago making incredible progress toward greater acceptance by acting responsibly, being incredibly successful individuals, and just being enjoyed by the rest of us, but lately they have let a fascist whining intolerant minority of them make the rest look bad. Every group has this type, but you need to call them out if you are better than that.
How very-un-fab!
"A&E should pay a price. A big price."
They will. For anyone trying to frame A&E's response as a "business decision" and not a violation of free speech, it should be noted that this was a galactically bad business decision. A&E responded to the PC scolds instead of to its audience. The audience that made this show the most popular reality show ever. Great work, A&E!
A&E responded to the PC scolds instead of to its audience.
That, in a nutshell, is the new business model: anti-customer.
Trooper, Bagoh20, Pogo, Palladian, Fr Fox, et al...while I agree strongly with your principled positions on freedom of thought and speech...why oh why do I still have this very strong cynical inkling that this whole thing was a mutual set up?
Next seasons is already in the can...and low and behold, a marathon of prior episodes is to run this weekend.
Now if the marathon is canceled by A&E I'll rethink. Otherwise I will be interested in the ratings they garner.
Has the marathon of episodes been canceled? Uh, NOPE .... and that link has a list of A&E sponsors of the program as well. Have fun.
As heavily as my sympathies lie with Mr. Robertson...
This is not a "denial of free speech."
There are lots of things to call it. Bad things. Things that are bad.
And there are assaults on free speech. They're bad.
But that's not the right way to understand this.
Aridog:
Oh, yes, I wonder the same thing.
Aridog,
If they did such a thing it's a massive error.
I am now going to pay attention to A&E and avoid its shows because either:
(1) they're hypocritical PC assholes that canned a guy they knew was a Christian redneck
or (2) they're lying scumbags creating controversy by slamming Christians.
Either way I hate their collective guts and so will avoid ever watching A&E (and I did -used to- watch them).
Great game plan.
Amartel said ...
The audience that made this show the most popular reality show ever
That simple fact alone scares me. Seriously?
Pogo ...they are both (1) and (2) and it is on purpose IMO. Just look at the attention they've generated this week alone, including right here...of all places.
I doubt they care whether you or I ever watch their shows....and that is a good reason to continue that practice, or even more fun, jump on all the advertisers listed in the link I made at 5:37 PM.
I think you are too cynical Ari. Not to say that you might not be right. But I think it was just nature taking it's course.
Redneck actually says what he thinks. Ab-fab guys get their panties in a bunch and call for his head. Cable company knuckles under because political correctness is the number value and besides they hate holly rollers anyway.
A+B=C
I see how they might get more viewers for Duck Dynasty, but A&E as a brand comes off tainted. Seems pretty stupid, but wadooIno?
Michael Jordan was once asked why he did not campaign for Harvey Gantt who was a black man running against Jesse Helms.
Jordan said "Republicans buy sneakers too."
Christians watch TV. In fact I would venture to say that the are the majority of the audience for this show. A&E made a big mistake infuriating their audience.
I hope they suffer big time for it.
The same executive suits who canned Alec Baldwin canned Bashir. One said mean things about gays and the other said mean things about someone fundamentalist gays hate. It looks like both "sides" get equal treatment by the same entity (MSNBC) but it's really attempted narrative control. A&E has the same mindset as MSNBC. Go ahead and accuse me of likening A&E and MSNBC.
The problem with choosing to not watch A&E is that you are still paying your cable/dish provider for A&E, and they in turn pay A&E to be in business. Not watching A&E has little impact on their revenue stream, at least the part of it generated by cable/dish.
Fr. Fox had the right idea (I'm paraphrasing a bit) which is to use this as a stepping-off point for unbundling cable/dish services.
There are some 900 channels in my basic cable package. Although I watch perhaps fifteen of them at all, I still pay for the channels I never watch and don't need.
I sure would like to jettison the channels I don't watch and pay only for the ones I actually watch.
Pogo said...
A&E as a brand comes off tainted...
...trapped between vagina and anus.
What if the Duck Dynasty crew signed a deal with another network?
Assuming A&E owns the existing shows, the competing network might be delighted to run the new show right against the episodes A&E owns.
Which network might be willing to do this?
Trooper York said...
I think you are too cynical Ari. Not to say that you might not be right.
I think I began my commentary on this topic by claiming that. Yep. I just get a certain cynical sensation when I feel the hustle is on...and by saying that I just revealed a bias...that I think taking Duck Dynasty seriously is over reaching...just like taking ole Les Gold and his pawn shop fandango seriously. The Robertsons make duck calls...and have been very successful at it. Good for them. Not exactly curing cancer is it?
Michael ... you bet, we pay for a lot of stuff we never use with cable. My bill has jumped up again after the last 24 month "deal" ran out...so it is time to query them again about why I should keep this or that feature and get a new "deal"...worked every time so far.
The new deals invariable are about $90 below the "regular" bill which they hope you don't notice when the deal expires. I notice $90...that's a good bottle of Cognac damnit!
Ari...we do the same thing. Cable prices are negotiable.
I'd like to pay-per-view just for what I watch, a thing not likely to happen.
Trooper, Bagoh20, Pogo, Palladian, Fr Fox, et al...while I agree strongly with your principled positions on freedom of thought and speech...why oh why do I still have this very strong cynical inkling that this whole thing was a mutual set up?
A brilliant one, at that. The Robertsons managed to make a lot of dollars selling duck calls, and then made a gazillion more dollars with a TV show about a bunch of hirsute rednecks doing things like going couch shopping, catching an escaped lizard, having a yard sale and collecting honey.
And both A&E and the Robertsons made a gazillion further dollars producing such a show, and figuring out how to market it correctly and how to turn it into an engine of product promotion.
These people are plenty smart enough to game the outrage & persecution machines, on both sides.
Everyone currently involved in US politics should be summarily fired and banished to Elba.
Lydia said... "Skip Elba and send them directly to Saint Helena."
On reflection, I think Io is the best place for them.
Well we've had that Fox News chick talk about a white Santa, now that cycle's replaced by the Ducks and their views on God...
What else can distract us from talking about the problems the country is facing?
The Ridiculous Right is so entertaining.
That doesn't apply to the wingers who are rightfully embarrassed by y'all.
Look, the whole point in the MSM, TV, Movies, etc. is to give people CHOICE.
Which is what the left-wing billionaires and millionaires who control the media/CableTV and entertainment industry don't want. Which is why they are always centralizing and merging and fighting against consumer choice.
Republicans should be with the people, but weirdly are always with the Big Media and the Left-wing Billionaires. Guess that's Free Enterprise.
Anything to distract us from talking about how leftists support the knock out game.
The Entertainment industry has NEVER been in favor of competition and "free choice". Are you meshuge? They've always been in favor of profit and control.
The Hollywood studio and contract system was set up for maximum and control and profit. The studio heads got together and agreed on "Greylisting" and later "Blacklisting" anyone they disliked.
NBC and CBS radio did the same. Later all these Hollywood studios Disney, ABC,CBS, NBC, WB, Paramount, Universal, etc. all merged together and when Cable TV came along, they merged with them.
Result: The same small number of people controlling everything.
The point of this issue is not it being some case of illegally infringing someone's rights, or whether or not it will pay off for the victims. This is a debate about how the members of our societal family behaves toward one another in a nation that respects freedoms like speech, association, and religion. Because, if we don't respect them when we don't have to, then we are not really worthy of the legal protections either.
This is an issue of should we just accept without an argument a small group among us denying through economic threats another group's right to simply express it's religious views, which incidentally have been and remain the prevailing views of this nation's people throughout it's history. Do we tell, Uncle Robertson to shut up about what he thinks or we'll take away his plate at the dinner table, and everyone else's mash potatoes too, because he made them?
Do we just accept that as how we run dinner from now on?
We can do it that way. It's perfectly legal. That's not the point of the discussion. Should we just because we can is the debate?
The right is saying this is not fair, decent, or a path either side should be comfortable with. The right is saying that about a lot the left is doing lately. It is very important beyond just the world of duck calls.
Do we just accept that as how we run dinner from now on?
Depends on who's hosting the dinner. It's A&E's dime so I suppose they can serve who they like.
Another possibility is to regulate the entertainment industry some more and tell them they can't do that to the Duck people.
I think the so-called right is just as committed to freedom as the so-called left— in other words, when it suits their positions and purposes.
Neither A&E nor the Robertsons did anything wrong in this. Both acted in accordance with their beliefs and interests, no one was "silenced", no one was hurt.
I don't care about Duck Dynasty. I never watched it. I care about bullies dictating what the market can offer me. I think people can understand my point just fine when it's closer to home, or with someone they like or admire being bullied, and that's just what this is. A small clique bullies. They say the things necessary to get the larger group to believe it's appropriate to bully their victim. That's how bullies do it. And the way bullies are stopped is by standing up to them. That's all that the right is doing here. It may work by having it backfire on A&E, unfortunately A&E is just the victims friend that the bully used in order to get at their target. Hey, don't be his friend - he's a fag, and if you don't say so, I'm gonna bully you. That's how the same thing sounds on the playground.
Martin:
"Which network might be willing to do this?"
Bravo or History?
Reality shows are strange. With some shows, like the little people or the Gypsy wedding dresses, we get a glimpse into how different people live. Voyeurism. With others, like the dance moms, we see how competition and art unfold. I think we've entered a new phase of social evolution.
I for one could care less what happens to A&E. But, oh please, truly. Keep up the victimization routine. How you and the Duck Dynasty, you know, right-thinking Americans are being bullied by ... A&E and other leftists! Here, get a bigger megaphone. Louder, please. Because we don't really have any other problems to talk about in this country then these guys' career problems. It's so fascinating to you folks.
Maybe this will finally undo all the damage that Obama has done. If we only make America see how bullied we really are.
If you could care less that means you care.
Well since I don't even get A&E ... actually I don't care.
I don't think there really is much as important as this. This is the foundation of all politics, of respect, and how people treat each other. When it goes terribly wrong, as it sometimes does, this is where it starts, with bullies, and with your friends and neighbors not standing up for you. It's not as important as "binders of women", or the evils of Sarah Palin discussing economic liberty without getting a mouth full of shit straight from soft serve valve, but I think it counts for much more than this surface story, which is just a symptom of a national disease.
Phx, you basically have only said one thing the whole thread: you think it's not important. Got it. I addressed it early on. It's what the left has done with every major failing of the last 5 years. The small ones and the big ones are all unimportant. There is always a mysteriously bigger squirrel. They are getting bigger all the time.
Maybe we can just deflect back to an earlier point in this parade and start discussing Fast and Furious. Some squirrel ate that one too.
bagoh20 yes and the whole thread you've said it's all about fairness and how people treat each other.
You, the guy who says the Tea Party are the respectful follow the rules, upright guys, and their opponents are the shit-in-the-street, stealers, liars and rapists.
Ha ha ha. All about fairness to you! Nothing one-sided in your view. It's all fairness.
Yeah, you're the one to define these weighty matters for us and tell us about the "foundation of all politics, of respect, and how people treat each other."
What a comedian.
They must pay you by the bromide.
Anybody with a little believability want to take the Ducks' side?
Well there you go.
Well, they did shit in the streets and leave the park here in L.A. at near superfund status. And the Tea Party pick the litter at their protests.
Is that unfair or biased to point out, cause I don't want to piss you off and lose my job over this.
Smoke rings that would expand until they faded into invisibility without touching a thing on the way.
whatever. You want to argue that we need a more civil society for everyone fine. Leave your "We're all good and you're all Snidley Whiplash" bullshit for the children. We're grownups, not some Sunday school students of yours.
Are you sure you don't want to hire me? I could really help around there. I'm a Tea Partier, and we leave things better than we find them. That's rare skills these days.
Grownups don't defend people shitting in the street.
I'm a Tea Partier, and we leave things better than we find them.
applause applause
As I said, any grownups want to take the Ducks's side here?
Grownups don't defend people shitting in the street.
There is a part in every argument with me where you go flat out stupid. And here it is. Again.
Show me where I defended any of YOUR squirrels shitting in the streets? Show me now.
Don't just say you're grown up - provide some evidence. Tell me how the Occupy people are making better arguments and leading by example better than the Tea Party.
Looks like I'm your huckleberry.
Again, more stupidity. Show me WHERE I made any assertion that Occupy people are better at anything than anyone.
Show me now.
Looks like somebody just walked over your grave.
When you argue with me you just always seem to hear what you must want to hear and you don't hear what I actually say.
It never matters how many times I correct you, you make the same mistake, the same false understandings.
I'm convinced that's the kind of thing that can happen to anybody though who thinks they have all virtue on their side, and their opponents are all evil. You just can't think straight with that concept in your head, IMO.
"When you argue with me you just always seem to hear what you must want to hear and you don't hear what I actually say. "
I just don't hear you say anything. You ridicule my points, imply that you have a counter point, but then run away, when challenged to expand on it. You just don't have anything. I've been wrong about things plenty of times in my life, so I'm willing to listen and learn. Teach me. Stop holding back. I'm an empty vessel. Fill me, and make me better.
Thank you for supporting their ignorance.
Maybe you could help me out with an example of what your looking for.
No, I don't think I can help you.
When you argue with me you just always seem to hear what you must want to hear and you don't hear what I actually say.
It never matters how many times I correct you, you make the same mistake, the same false understandings.
They're conservatives. They're skeptical of reason.
And they won't change. That's entirely the point. They are opposed to using their brains to question or re-evaluate the use of pursuing unconstructive dead-ends, and just uphold the dead-ends as unassailable truths instead.
In the meantime, you'll get plenty of redirection, subject changing, goalpost shifting, and one-liners. You know: Avoidance.
You'll never beat people who have as much fear of the world as a reactionary conservative does when it comes to avoidance. They are way more practiced at it than you or I will ever be.
But someone who doesn't live in a fantasy "I'm all good! You're all bad!" world.
I'm a Tea Partier, and we leave things better than we find them.
Lol. The years 2001 - 2008 just called. They'd like their reputation back.
Look, just because you douchebags renamed yourselves, doesn't mean we don't know who you are. It's the same old bullshit as always - just with extra defiance.
And it's ultimately losing - not that it ever had anywhere else to go.
Yawn.
So if I understand what your saying Ritmo it's "up twinkles".
I don't necessarily believe that R&B. I believe there are intelligent conservatives and there are conservatives of good will. Some of them can out-argue me for sure.
The prerequisite is you can't live in a cartoon world.
Hey Phx and Ritmo, how about if you two argue? Each one take a side and show us how to do it with consensus rules.
Hey, I came here to learn stuff that I can use to better myself. If you guys are just gonna smack me around, I want my money back. Now let's get to teaching me things about what ever it is you think I need to learn.
Hey Phx and Ritmo, how about if you two argue? Each one take a side and show us how to do it with consensus rules.
Hey bagoh20. In the knockout tournament, you are flat on your back. I'll decide who my next challenger is.
Some conservatives possess the capacity for reason and a sense of goodwill.
Bag does not. He's a partisan.
He believes everything the Republican Party stands for is his last hope against losing the one thing he cares about: The business he owns.
If he doesn't own it, he doesn't care about it.
There are conservatives, and then there are douchebags like the type I mention - whom the conservatives let run their party.
I'll let you know who can think better than I can.
He's a partisan.
He believes everything the Republican Party stands for
Yeah but sometimes he's funny and clever. In a superficial way of course, but still more entertaining than a lot of us.
He loves dogs, too, and I give him credit for that.
And he's self-effacingly hapless with the women and I'm pretty sure that's adorable.
I also think he's a standup guy to people who share his same values. Most of which are extremely decent. Most of the time.
He's got some great points. He's just got a huge blind spot.
The fatal kicker: he doesn't know it.
He's not "naturally" a Republican, because he's not even conservative. Most Republicans aren't, really. But their party attracts all types of strangely allied cranks.
Bag's a narcissist abandoned by his parents whose only cares in life extend to the things he can own. There are many like this in their party. And it has nothing to do (or at least, very little to do) with ideology. It's much moreso psychology.
Of course he can be funny and clever. He can also avoid the point of any issue for eternity. Again, this is something his psychology requires.
They're not mutually exclusive skills. They're self-reinforcing.
But overall I sincerely like him.
Today we had our company Christmas party. The managers beat the supervisors with baseball bats, and then the supervisors kicked the line workers in the nuts (or cooter bones). Then, we all called our customers and told them to kiss our ass. We do this every year, and year after year we brake all previous records for profitability. It really is foolproof method.
Of course he can be funny and clever.
You say that like it's not important. Anyone with a sense of humor gets some passes. Especially if it's as self-deprecating as bagoh20's can be.
Well, whether those "nice" things are true or just desperately needed image enhancers, only Bag truly knows. But he certainly doesn't need you to defend him or his character. His character takes second place to whether or not he can own something. That's just how he is, for better or worse. And I'm trying to decrease the judgment, because if you judge it, you'll just avoid seeing what he chuckles away at having blinded you from seeing.
There are all sorts of psychologically disabled people in life that I've learned to enjoy the company of. Hell, some are even decent people in other ways. Maybe some even work to overcome their deficiencies.
But Bag doesn't need you for that. In fact, the less needy you make him feel, the more he'll respect you.
"He loves dogs, too, and I give him credit for that."
Only because I can make them do stuff and don't have to pay them. I can't believe we outlawed slavery. What's up with that?
It's a shame he squanders it on ...well, you know what I think his character failures are.
You misrepresent my views so you can puff up your arguments, you fool! Stop doing that and maybe we can start to have a real discussion about what's right and wrong around here.
What does "self-deprecating" mean. I Googled it and all that came up was a story about some anti-business protest that involved self-defecating I couldn't really follow it.
What does "self-deprecating" mean.
Yeah, well. I dunno know. I just pick words out at random from the dicshunary.
I've often wondered what the rate of thread-degeneration is. This one is falling apart just short of 200 posts.
I read what you said you did for the doggies in the kill-shelters. Respect.
Fr Martin Fox don't speak too soon. Sometimes the hard work is being done where you don't even imagine.
How do I know if I'm misrepresenting your views if you won't express them. What are they? I'm just shooting in the dark here. I apologize for missing, but come on, it's in the dark!
I'm glad I'm glad I'm glad. Plus, I'm still interested in those shoes with the springs in them. I want to bounce around and just try them boing boing boing. But if they don't bounce what a bummer because then I'd be stuck with camouflage shoes.
The thing is, recipes Elba with cheese traditionally start with roux, then milk, then cheese.
Many variations with varieties of cheese, some recipes with as many as seven, but American cheese is best for this. Extravagant recipes with multiple cheeses tend to lose contests. Traditional recipes win.
Pasta is cooked, sauce is cooked, it is done right there but most people include a breadcrumb and grated hard cheese topping and bake to brown the topping.
But none of that is necessary.
Elba noodles cook in minutes. Whatever the package says, they really cook faster than that, even at altitude where water boils at 200F, and even lower temperature at higher elevation. (Kids like the pasta overcooked and mushy)
The sauce can be as simple as a few slices of American cheese tossed on top of drained noodles, same pot. No colander necessary. Heavy cream added to desired viscosity.
The single most important element is jalapeño. Do not forget the jalapeño or everybody dies.
Optional flavorings:
* nutmeg!
* Cayenne sprinkled throughout
* garlic (powdered, a poor 2nd cousin)
* feathers (<-- test to see if you're paying attention)
* cream cheese added makes it fluffier.
* egg mixed in at some point.
* all of this at low heat
Here's one from a few days ago.
One with cavatappi noodles the wiggly kind. (no jalapeños and everybody died)
Penne bacon and a bunch of stuff.
Mac snack.
Macaroni and bacon.
The pissiest one of all, Parmigiano tuiles, jalapeño and American cheese. (tuiles not recommended)
I don't want to be part of any degenerate stuff. I gotta go anyway. I need to set up my new 2,000 inch flat screen TV that I bought with the money I stole from my customers and employees all year.
What are they? I'm just shooting in the dark here. I apologize for missing, but come on, it's in the dark!
I'm always willing to share my exact views, and all my reasoning behind them, for good or ill, with anyone who agrees or disagrees - as long as my antagonist has a modicum respect.
Oh well. Dogma-Man speaks!
If you can't respect someone who thinks about things differently than you do, then there's no point.
Oh yea, one more thing:
IT'S FRIDAY!!!!!!
Tell that to Robertson.
And Bam! Back on topic just like that.
That is some great Elba recipes right there Chip.
Thank you.
48 comment by PHX: and all of them Gold!
Fascinating. I haven't read so much sophisticated analysis since Titus talked about his poop.
You see rcocean. Now anyone who follows him knows he thinks better than I do.
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE EVEN TALK TO PHX?!
At least our friend Rhythm is entertaining sometimes!
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