Friday, July 15, 2016

Rebels Without A Pause

Never Trump Delegates Defeated In Cleveland: link

What recourse do they have?

What is the future of the never Trump vowel movement?

23 comments:

edutcher said...

In both cases, none.

This was their only gasp and Trump's end run by picking Pence has outflanked the Kristols and the Roes.

Lem said...

Losing on principle... We'll always have losing on principle.

We will be governed by democrats but our principles will remain intact...or something.

AllenS said...

Before all of this bullshit started, I had come to the conclusion that a lot, if not the majority of the Republican Party were not any different than the Democrat Party. It's taken Trump about a year to confirm what I had already figured out.

Fuck 'em.

AprilApple said...

We are gonna stand by the man who is in it to lose.

We are gonna stand by the man who is more unpopular than Hillary Corruptocrat Clinton.

I can tell you this CO poll is 100% accurate.

Hillary cannot crack over 43%, (CO hates her - except for die-hard loyal demos and old ugly fem-hags who adore her corruption) but Donny does much worse. Why? I know it's only anecdotal, but, I've talked to a lot of people who are refusing to vote for either candidate.

AprilApple said...

You wanted burn it down, your getting it.

I'm going to re-post this perfect gem:

"The number of Americans who might possibly be persuaded to vote for Trump -- as a means of stopping Clinton, at least -- is overwhelmed by the number who will never allow Trump to become president. This fact will be in evidence on the night of Wednesday, Nov. 8, when the election is called shortly after the polls have closed and Trump has been crushed, taking down the Senate, the Supreme Court -- and possibly the House as well Arizona and Georgia et al. -- with him.
Perhaps they wished to give the establishment the middle finger. But whatever the reason, Republican primary voters, given the choice of several attractive candidates, opted instead to nominate an imbecilic buffoon. And by that act they withdrew from the field and forfeited the contest. Nothing remains for us to decide; the decision has already been taken.
I myself didn't want to run up the white flag and allow that corrupt hag to become president. Those of you who backed the imbecilic buffoon decided that for us. We should now be on the verge of victory and of taking our country back. Clinton could have been vanquished. But you wanted instead to vent your frustration and rage. After all, Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan haven't performed as if they were Genghis Khan.
So here we are, awaiting a defeat from which we and our country will not recover. I hope your vote for the buffoon was at least cathartic."

-Hephaestion

AprilApple said...

you're

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@ April

Who else are you going to stand behind. A ghost. A fiction. A wish. A mythological white knight.

Trump may not be perfect. Ok. Is not perfect. BUT he is the candidate chosen by millions of voters and who has also brought into the "fold" many disaffected others from other parties.

If you can't stand behind the man, fine. Don't. However the never trump morons are trying to stand in front and derail with no alternative in mind and no plan in mind. Constant carping, bitching and obstructionism is not a winning strategy.....unless the goal is to allow Hillary to win, that is.

They are like the Black Lives Matter people. Screeching and demanding...something...but with no solution to the problems. Loud, obnoxious, annoying and ineffectual with no concrete thoughts about the consequences of their actions.

edutcher said...

oopsy, that comparison to the BlackLives crowd is on the money, except BlackLives are as much action as they are talk.

AprilApple said...

We are gonna stand by the man who is in it to lose.

We are gonna stand by the man who is more unpopular than Hillary Corruptocrat Clinton.

I can tell you this CO poll is 100% accurate.


You mean like the FL one last night?

Tell you a little secret about polls of registered voters - they are heavy with Democrats.

Why, you ask?

Because the Demos are forever doing voter registration drives (got to keep the newly deceased and the illegals on the voter rolls) and there are more Democrats registered than anybody else. Luckily, Demos are too lazy to get off the couch.

And the "He's going to throw it to Hillary" is just lame Cruzzer propaganda.

He lost. Little Marco lost. Get over it.

You wanted burn it down, your getting it.

You're a Whig. The Whigs lost. And nobody knows who this Hephaestion is and you're the only one who cares because he tells you what you want to hear.

Leland said...

I'm no fan of Trump, but he has my vote in November. I realize "it still isn't over!", but if the stupid party tries to displace Trump (as of two months ago); it will be a disaster during a year when the Dems have put up a very weak and hated candidate.

I could ask, how is McCain better than Trump? And I suspect all I would get is McCain was a war veteran. Yep, he was; and he campaigned on it too. But as a conservative or libertarian; McCain was a candidate that couldn't be trusted to toe the line on any issue that mattered to you. He was more than likely to stab your ideals in the back.

May Trump be a disappointment? Sure. Just like McCain. I still went to the polls for McCain, so this year will be no different. Romney was a bit better in 2008, but I knew he was doomed when he allowed himself to be filleted during the 2nd debate. He flopped around without a backbone into the November election. I don't see Trump letting that happen.

AprilApple said...

DBQ - It doesn't matter who I stand behind. The expectation is that I'm supposed to be excited about a loser. I'm not.

I'm supposed to get on board the Trump train, and not only vote for him, but support him with enthusiasm. I'm supposed to ignore that he is a bumbling inarticulate buffoon who is in fact, more unpopular than Hillary. I will vote for him, but that changes nothing. Is enthusiasm required now? Will that be the difference? Does my vote count more if I'm an excited! enthusiastic! blind faith! moron like ed ? Will my vote count more If I ignore the polls that tell us over and over and over that Trump is more unpopular than Hillary?

I'm bracing for Armageddon.
I think both parties picked horrible candidates. If we dumped Trump, I think the dems would panic.

AprilApple said...

The dems are not panicking over Trump. That's a big lie like - "Comey will resign in protest!"

So many bullshit paradigms that are swallowed whole.

edutcher said...

A little something prescient from about 5 months ago.

The important aspect most people do not internally emphasize or accept is that Ted Cruz’s followers are approximately 15-20% of the Republican primary electorate. They are about 5% of the national electorate….. and these are mostly really nasty people.

The Cruz Clan will never vote for any other candidate in a general election. If they don’t get to vote for the messiah they stay home. It’s all Ted Cruz at all costs, and nothing else matters. That allows them to disconnect from the deception that stands as a necessary foundation for the Cruz campaign.

Hence the psychological manipulation, the need to rely on Cambridge Analytica, and the constant need to go back to the captured audience for money. The plate is passed around the same congregation over-and-over-and-over. Throwing the ju-ju-bones is a familiar technique amid all of the snake handlers and most professionally religious constructs.

However, there is an upside to acceptance. If Ted Cruz does not win the GOP nomination, none of the Cruz Clan will vote in the general election, they never do. They have such a short-sighted narrow view of issues, if they don’t get “their leader” they stay home.

When you accept they will never vote for anyone else, you realize you can stop worrying about their always tender sensibilities. The GOPe have known this for years, and take a dismissive approach to the ‘nuts-over-there‘. When John McCain says “whacko-birds”, it’s the Clan of the Cruz he’s referring to.


AprilApple said...

The dems are not panicking over Trump. That's a big lie like - "Comey will resign in protest!"

The Hill begs to differ.

PS April defines loser differently.

Newt lost to Romney in the '12 primaries, so he's a loser even though he engineered one of the biggest political comebacks in American history by creating a Republican majority in the House that lasted 7 terms after 60 years in the wilderness.

But Little Marco, who lost how many primaries, is the one to beat Cacklepants.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

April

No one expects or demands that you to be excited about Trump or even be supportive of Trump. I understand that this is your opinion and you are most certainly entitled to it.

To be blunt about it...and I usually am blunt, even in person....what is annoying is the constant carping about Trump with NO offers of alternatives or solutions to what you consider an unacceptable candidate.

I'm a practical person. In my life, I want either solutions or get out of the way while I find a solution. I realize that not every problem has a solution. Sometimes things fail Sometimes the solution will be one that I didn't like or even envision. However, standing on the sidelines while bitching, moaning and even being obstructive (like the never trump people) is NOT a solution finding strategy.

If YOU have a solution. Have an alternative, then fine. Make your case. Persuade me. Let's hear it.

AprilApple said...

DBQ - I respect your opinion and I hear ya.
My solutions are unworkable at this point. Perhaps my doom and gloom is annoying, but the wishful thinking that we made a good choice is just as annoying... (to me)

I think the delegates should be unbound and they should be allowed vote their conscience. I'd love to dump Trump. I'd love to see the Dems squirm.

Only other solution I can come up with-- Trump should go in for a lobotomy. Or up his game to above 4th grade.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

I think the delegates should be unbound and they should be allowed vote their conscience. I'd love to dump Trump. I'd love to see the Dems squirm.

They ran as Trump delegates. They should be obligated to stand that way.

If they didn't want to be Trump delegates, they should have run as whatever candidate's horse they liked. Old political saying: When somebody says he's going to vote his conscience, he really means he's going to vote against his party. Think Junior McCain or Arlen Specter.

What you propose is what Ryan and McConnell (or Little Marco) have been doing to us since the '14 elections.

Nothing like elastic ethics.

And you call..., I'll let it go.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The delegates knew the rules (about being bound or not) before they ran or participated in the process. Now that they are unhappy with the results doesn't give them leeway to kick all the rules to the curb or whine about their First Amendment rights. They gave those rights up when they willingly went into the process. No one forced them to be delegates

If they didn't like the process, they had a choice. Don't participate OR change the rules first.

edutcher said...

So Breitbart finally agrees, it's Pence. They'll make a joint appearance in Jersey tomorrow.

Smart.

Trooper York said...

The thing is most of the #Nevertrump contingent are the consultants, pundits and servants of the crony capitalists who have run the Republican party ever since Reagan. They know that Trump can not win if they are ever going to get control of the party back. So they will do everything they can to derail his candidacy.

Trump will not win by trying to get either the Rhino establishment or the "conservative" establishment behind him. They have to oppose him with every fiber of their being. They are the stupid in the "stupid party." The smart play is to support him full tilt. He really is not that wedded to any particular policy other than immigration and trade. So there is a lot of stuff they can influence if they are inside the tent pissing out instead of inside the tent pissing in. If they had come on board they could have directed a lot of the policy instead of fuming on the sidelines. Now it is too late. I will give you an example.

Trump is a forgiving guy. He can dust it up with someone and then be friends with them again. If you approach him in the right way you can work with him. Look at the bitter feud he had with Sol Goldman one of the real estate big shots in NYC. They were at knifepoint for a long time but put their differences aside to work together to make deals. The One True Ted could have done that. Instead of retiring in a snit he should have reached out. He could have had a rapprochement and I bet Trump would farm out the Legal issues to him. Including the Supreme Court picks. In fact Teddy could have set himself up to get the next slot.

In business you have to work with people you hate all the time. You swallow it to make money. Trump knows this. Trump lives this every day. The professional political class never does that. They see their power slipping away. The public is not following their direction. Their answer is to attack the voters. Not adjust their message or approach to take into account the new realities of nationalism and protectionism that will be bedrock of the New Republican party. Or whatever party replaces it as the GOP goes the way of the Federalists and the Whigs.

Leland said...

The delegates knew the rules (about being bound or not) before they ran or participated in the process.

DBQ, I hear you and agree with your comments about a solution. But let's consider the above...

My candidate of choice is Ted Cruz, because I know what he's done for Texas, and its been a massive move away from "I'm a Republican politician, but we really should consider these Democrat policies we ran against". David Dewhurst would often block Republican bills, and then out of fairness, make sure the minority Democrats got just as many of their bills up for consideration as Republicans. No proportionality to support the democratic process, but equality!

But back to your quote DBQ... So what do we hear from the Trump supporters "offering a solution"; Ted is a cheat because of Colorado! And what happened in Colorado? Ted paid attention to the process and garnered those delegates. He knew the rules before he ran and participated in the process. But he's a cheat because he followed the process.

I said awhile back (not to DBQ, but others); I'm fine with Trump. I even thought before the first primary vote that Trump would win. Its his supporters pissing all over those who don't lavish praise on Trump that would keep me from voting from Trump. I've tuned them out, but there's still one rotten winner in these forums that continues to find pleasure rubbing others nose in Trump. Yeah, I rub my dog's nose in its poop too to get her to stop doing things.

As for Trooper and the #NeverTrump; I never given them quarter either. Even the few that I liked well before this election cycle seem to be #NeverTrump because they feel their state is either so lost or so safe; that not voting won't matter. I'm not impressed. They can tell me they're voting their conscious, but that's virtue signaling and their high horse would have trouble crossing a mound of chicken shit. So yeah, the #NeverTrump piss me off too. But then, Trooper, I think you got my view a couple of months ago, and I hope we are good.

And DBQ to repeat; I completely agree; if they don't like the rules, change them before the process, not after. I'm just using your quote as an example of what's annoying for those who could support Trump out of practicality, yet don't.

Leland said...

The smart play is to support him full tilt. He really is not that wedded to any particular policy other than immigration and trade. So there is a lot of stuff they can influence if they are inside the tent pissing out instead of inside the tent pissing in. If they had come on board they could have directed a lot of the policy instead of fuming on the sidelines.

This. And I don't get it either Troop. My largest concern about Trump is that he's as solid a conservative as McCain. That's damning praise in my book. Actually, he's probably a bit more solid than McCain; and would have to work hard to be a bigger disappointment than either McConnell or Ryan. But let's face it; Trump is not wedded to anything; even the people he actually wed. So get with him, and influence him. I don't want them to do it; but I'm lost as to why they aren't trying. Well not to lost. Trump did make immigration a top issue, and his supporters want what #NeverTrumps apparently don't want to do; though they claimed for decades they did.

AprilApple said...

@ Leland

" I even thought before the first primary vote that Trump would win. Its his supporters pissing all over those who don't lavish praise on Trump that would keep me from voting from Trump. I've tuned them out, but there's still one rotten winner in these forums that continues to find pleasure rubbing others nose in Trump. Yeah, I rub my dog's nose in its poop too to get her to stop doing things."

Indeed.

Trooper York said...

Well Leland you are certainly reasonable and you are believable in saying that you are not a Trump enthusiast but will vote for him instead of Hillary. Which is fine and you have not had anyone jumping on you have you? But if every single thing that Trump does is wrong and every day you post fifty comments about how Trump is a fraud and a con man and is in it throw the election you can see why you might get a few or even more than a few salvos in your direction.

The Whigs and the true blue conservatives who hate Trump are frantic because they know if he wins they will be without influence. They don't even try. Look Trump is nothing if not malleable. I think he has a lot of common sense. Is he a blow hard smart mouth New Yorker. Sure. But if you present him with facts and especially show him how to save money he will adopt that position as if he invented it. The Conservatives don't want to come on board because their rice bowl is being the permanent opposition

That is how they sell books and radio shows and cruises.

Leland said...

I agree Troop; the mud is being flung from both sides, and I'm not impressed either way. BTW, I don't think Trump a fraud and as for con-man; its a trait common among politicians particularly the GOPe. McConnell, Cornyn, Ryan, Boehner; they are all con men too. It is not like either the Dems or GOPe cared when TPP was passed via a shell game con. But I think Trump utilizes the con like any good salesman does from time to time. PT Barnum was a con man too, but he was actually well beloved by the very people he conned.

True Story; I worked the 1992 Republican Convention. One of the guys that helped setup security was a former convicted con man. He was recommended by the Secret Service, because he knew what to look for from other con men that were dangerous. I watched him use his skills for good. The skill is pretty handy in politics.

I agree completely with your second paragraph, Troop. Every word, plus the extra final sentence.