Friday, June 17, 2016

Scott Adams on Persuasion, Trump and related subjects


I came to this Scott Adams video via the suggestion at the end of another video, in which Howard Stern speaks about Orlando and guns. EBL also has it up on his site.  Never mind... that video has been taken down on Sirius XM copyright grounds. Sorry.

169 comments:

edutcher said...

On the subject of persuasion, for those who want to get panicked about polls, consider this from American Thinker on how Black Rock skews its polls and, from the London Daily Mail (our second newspaper of record) on how the Peacock skews.

Also, a bit of electoral history from Don Surber.

chickelit said...

My favorite Youtube comment (so far) for this video: "Is that a bong on his desk?"

I guess he's talking about the obscured thing behind Adams' head.

edutcher said...

Adams is interesting in that he really is no big Trump fan, but he gets who the man is and how he has been so successful. He's got a couple of long pieces floating around in cyberspace on the subject that are worth a read whether you like the guy (Donald) or not.

Fascinating stuff.

Sixty Grit said...

Did he say who The Donald was trying to win over in his abrogation of the 6th amendment? Who was his audience? It was a deal breaker for me.

chickelit said...

6th Amendment:*

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
___________________________
* I always have trouble remembering the lesser discussed amendments and find ordinal reference useless. It's kind of like throwing out "the 4th Commandment"; we recognize the Ten Commandments but often don't know their sequence.

chickelit said...

OK, Sixty, I'm on my way to the PO to mail you the "ice cube". I'm sending you a bonus--both a "plastic reality" and a "plastic surreality." You will have to wait until you get them for an explanation.

Sixty Grit said...

Yep, due process. Orangina wants to ban people on a secret list from purchasing a firearm. If you are put on a list by an unknown government droid, without a hearing or a trial or any evidence presented or the right to defend yourself, somehow that means you can't buy a firearm. The Donald is such a freakin' Rat Bastard Commie New Yorker he thinks that's okay. Fuck him.

edutcher said...

Um, where, exactly, did he say that?

AFAIK all he said was he was meeting with the NRA on the subject.

No announcements that I've heard, but keep it up.

You'll have President Bernie yet.

Sixty Grit said...

Okay, I better lay off the commenting for a while - it occurred to me that I am in what 12 steppers call H.A.L.T. - while my addiction is not to chemicals or whatnot, I do find myself being way too outspoken in my comments when I am tired, hungry, alone or peevish.

Pissed because all the steps I took to keep the caterpillars off my catalpa tree have failed and the leaves are being eaten, again. I need to accept the ways of nature.

Tired because my insomnia is ongoing. The days are long and I don't miss a minute of daylight.

Hungry - well, lunch is cookin', that I can handle.

Alone - my imaginary online friends are a pretty good bunch, so I best not be too strident.

edutcher said...

Sixty, right now the Demos and the Whigs figure they have the perfect excuse to ram through more firearm laws.

If you want to oppose that, you'd better have a co-ordinated strategy because the media (and April right along behind them) will be all over you. That would be a very good reason for Trump to meet with the NRA, no?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I don't understand why everyone is all...oooooh aaaaaah over what Scot Adams is saying about Trump. It is just sales 101 techniques. The "persuasion" techniques are nothing magical, although you do have to have the personality to go with the techniques to be a successful salesman/woman.

Years and years ago I attended a 5 week course put on by the company that I was working at on how to sell. It discussed all those things that Adams is discussing. We even video taped ourselves doing a mock sales presentation. Meeting, greeting, establishing commonality with the prospect, presenting and overcoming objections etc etc etc. After the mock sales presentation we were critiqued by the rest of the group and watched ourselves on video. It was extremely revealing, the little physical tics that we each did that we were not aware of and how our actions either reinforced or distracted from the "sale".

Trump has been trained in salesmanship 101. Big deal. There is nothing new or magical here. Any good used car salesman or stock broker has the skills :-)

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Using the techniques that I learned, I could sell a spoon to anyone. The presentation would be very different depending on the person's mindset or buying/selling triggers.

For example: after the meet, greet, interview, commonality (making them like you) you try to get a sense of what would be important to the customer in wanting to buy the "spoon" or any other thing. You then tailor your presentation to that mindset/want/need.

Prestige: this is the finest crafted spoon that will make all of your other (snotty) friends envious. The rarity of the spoon. No one but the finest people can afford to have this spoon.

Esthetics: Just look at the artisan quality that went into this spoon. It is a work of ART! Michelangelo couldn't have made a more perfectly beautiful spoon

Technology (often paired with utility): Advanced technology that crafted this spoon ensures that it will be the most efficient spoon in the world. You will hardly miss your mouth. The most advanced design, cutting edge design.

Value: Compare this spoon to the cost of other spoons. The low cost and utility of the spoon, the time you will be using it and the length of the lifetime use of this spoon makes it an exceptional value over time. OR conversely and weirdly.......this spoon is the most expensive spoon that can be bought. Far above other spoons.

And so on. Often the buying triggers are combined. For example: Prestige and value. The expensive spoon will make all your friends envious. Technology and Art. The salesperson has to carefully watch and see what approach is connecting with the customer and quickly change up. If you are presenting ART to the guy who ONLY cares about Utility and Technology, you are going to lose the sale.

Easy peasy. Trump has this stuff down pretty good.

Think about all this the next time you go to buy a car, television, computer, shoes.

chickelit said...

Pissed because all the steps I took to keep the caterpillars off my catalpa tree have failed and the leaves are being eaten, again. I need to accept the ways of nature.

It looks another fruitless year for my grapevine. I read countless online links on how and when to prune to maximize yield. Over the winter, I cut back a lot of the previous year's growth, leaving only a few woody canes. They formed buds in spring and turned into new shoots that grew. And grew. And grew. But no flowers, hence no fruit. So, I decided that the plant is sterile (despite having produced a tine amount of fruit last year).

I shall not accept Nature -- I shall have dominion! I just cut back much of the rampant overabundant new growth and trained the damned thing into an ornamental shade plant.

I'll read some more books and try again next year.

AprilApple said...

Trump fooled a lot of people.

He is in this thing for Hillary.

chickelit said...

That has been your schtick for a very, very, long time now April.

Consider the source: The National Review, who are still butthurt about Trump. And notice that woman is not a Hillary supporter.

This all adds up to NRO (and you by implication) still wanting a knight in shining armor to show up and save us.

Another theory is that you yourself are a closeted Hillary proponent and that all your overblown Hillary-hate is just a smokescreen. I submit that that is plausible too.

chickelit said...

All we are saying is "Give Trump A Chance"

Rabel said...

Take a close look at the Zapruder film. If you slow it down and blow it up you can clearly see April there on the grassy knoll.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

Trump fooled a lot of people.

He is in this thing for Hillary.


If you wanted a troll to spread FUD and to discourage Trump supporters, April is the one you'd hire.

PS Quoting NRO? You must be joking. They've still got their NeverTrump hashtag (as does April).

chickelit said...

As none of us were privy to the infamous Clinton-Trump phone call, let me throw out another scenario:

Bill: If you run, this is really going to hurt Hill. A lot of nasty is going to come out.

Trump: Look, I know you two were at my wedding, but this something that I feel I have to do. That's what I wanted to clear up before I announced this.

Bill: Well Donald, we'll expect invitations to your Inaugural Ball. I know I'll show, but I doubt that Hill will. Who could I bring as a date? Does Melania have any sisters?

AprilApple said...

When November comes, and Hillary wins in a landslide - what will you do? Do you have your scapegoats lined up? If Trump is so amazing - why isn't he up in the polls? You claim Trump is amazing! Where's the proof?
Instead he is sinking.

I have no illusions we nominated a sure fire loser.

Rabel said...

"Do you have your scapegoats lined up?"

Yep.

Trooper York said...

There is not doubt in my mind that April is a Hillary supporter. There are many on various sites who claim to be "life long Republicans" and conservatives who spend all of their time attacking the Republican nominee. It is getting really tiresome.

Trump has exposed people like Ryan and the NRO. There is an article about how Hillary and Paul Ryan can get a lot of things done together. Because they believe in the same things. Unlimited immigration. Political correctness. Gun control.

I personally think Trump is the last chance for meaningful change. I have thought that for a long time.

Let me amend that slightly. Trump is the last chance for peaceful meaningful change.

chickelit said...

April asked: When November comes, and Hillary wins in a landslide - what will you do?

When Hillary wins and the last vestiges of border come down, when the 2nd Amendment is thoroughly and irrevocably gutted, when personal pay-to-play influence peddling is openly celebrated in D.C., when as Trump says "there won't be a country left," I'm sure there will still be options. But it's still not going to be only what NRO dictates.

Trooper York said...

Trump has a lot of positions that I am against. He is not really pro life. He doesn't care that much about social issues. I doubt his bona fides on freedom of religion.

But he is staunch on three major issues. Political correctness. Immigration. Trade. For this alone he has had vote.

Trooper York said...

No one who is not a rabid Hillary supporter would be as tireless and tiresome in their attacks on her opponent.

It is just a joke.

AprilApple said...

DBQ - those sound like solid sales techniques. I think the best way to succeed in sales is to believe in what you are selling... not just try to get into someones pocket.

I found another way people try to hook you in for a sale. They give you something for free and make you feel obligated to buy something. That's been used on me by my neighbor (who was trying to hook me into his multi-level marketing scheme (think herbalife)(no. thank. you.) - and my hairdresser.

A few years back my builder friend invited me to a multi-level marketing scheme seminar (That's what it was) It was some BS scheme to get people to pony up 500 bucks and you'd sell phone service at cheaper rates. Just a tiny investment and you'd be rich! and easy street life! only work when you want to! and... bullshit! Ironically, Trump hyped it. It was a phone service scheme and it was a pyramid scheme.
The people in the audience bought it and it made me sad for my fellow humans. They were all mesmerized by the to good to be true sales pitch. People are so gullible.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

When November comes, and Hillary wins in a landslide - what will you do? Do you have your scapegoats lined up? If Trump is so amazing - why isn't he up in the polls? You claim Trump is amazing! Where's the proof?

First, Hillary won't win in a landslide - people can't stand her. If she isn't indicted or drops over from her tumor or a stroke or Trump doesn't beat her ass off, it will be the closest election you ever saw.

I posted a couple of articles as proof of how the Lefty polls are rigged and I've linked to Fox that says he's only down 3 and Ras who says he's only down 4, but, of course, you don't want to read them because they'd blow all your lies to Hell.

BTW when November comes and Trump wins in a landslide, do you intend to spend the next 4 years trying to explain how he stole it or do you intend to be part of the resistance bitching about every good thing he does?

AprilApple said...

It's not a joke. Trump will lose to the most corrupt candidate in history. As planned - or- Just because he doesn't have the support you claim he does and it's all a delusion illusion. Good luck.

I am a reliable R voter. I'll vote for him. I don't have to fill out a thumbs up emoji-con next to his check box, do I?

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

I am not commenting on Trump's chances until later this summer. I figure it is too early to start panicking over polls and some sites just want to say "I told you so." Trump with either win or not, let Hillary think she has this in the bag. We will know better how things are going later this summer. Anything else is really speculation at this point.

I did find the Howard Stern clip again on Mediate. I posted it at my place and Lem's you might want to go get it.

Trooper York said...

Here is the article excepted from the Washington Post where Hillary fans everywhere are positively giddy at the things she can do together with Paul Ryan and the other traitorous #Nevertrump types.


Trooper York said...

I simply don't believe you April. You would not work this hard in trying to delegitimize and destroy the opposition candidate as you are doing to Trump. It is simply not credible.

I couldn't stand Romney. He was the Rhinoest of Rhinos. But I swallowed it and tried to support him as best as I could because that is who the voters selected. But Rhinos and traitors don't play by their own rules.

You have gone far beyond concern trolling. You don't have to put an emoji on your posts. Just put a Hillary for President icon. That would be much more accurate.

AprilApple said...

I'm not surprised that Ryan is a squish. He's a squish. So? He'll be a squish no matter who wins.

AprilApple said...

Trump is destroying himself.

AprilApple said...

Troop - where is Trump's support?

Where is it? He's campaigning in Texas, for crying out loud. If the R's can't win Texas, it's over.

Rabel said...

It's amazing to see. People in the traditional "conservative" news business - magazines, newspapers, TV, online - who seemingly spend spend their every waking moment demonizing Trump with exaggerations, distortions, half-truths and outright lies mixed with the occasional truth now tell us that Trump can't win because he is unpopular. I hope they and the easily influenced who follow their propaganda will be man and woman enough to take their share of the credit if Clinton becomes our next President.

I doubt it. How often have you seen commentary on Trump's unpopularity from the "conservative" side which acknowledges that their own actions are partly to blame?

The only honest ones are those who openly support Hillary.

AprilApple said...

Support is measured by polls. You can ignore the polls are your leisure.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

Troop - where is Trump's support?

Where is it? He's campaigning in Texas, for crying out loud. If the R's can't win Texas, it's over.


More votes in a Republican primary than anyone else in history. He fills arenas everywhere he goes. And he's campaigned all over the country. He campaigned in CA, too.

And how do we know he can't win TX? I haven't seen anything that says he's in trouble in TX.

You haven't, either. More FUD from the troll.

Trump will lose to the most corrupt candidate in history. As planned - or- Just because he doesn't have the support you claim he does and it's all a delusion illusion.

Still campaigning for the One True Ted, I see. All of Roe's boilerplate. Roe knew he was beaten last Labor Day. You can read his own words if you can read.

I am a reliable R voter. I'll vote for him.

No, you're a troll. At best, you'll stay home. But I'm betting you're a Hillary girl.

Lem said...

Thanks for the tip EviL.

AprilApple said...

ed-ache - You're the Hillary supporter.

Anyone who supports Trump is really in the tank for Hillary.

Rabel said...

"Support is measured by polls. You can ignore the polls are your leisure."

Are you willing to acknowledge the influence the people I cited above have on those polls?

AprilApple said...

Rable - Conservatives always fall into the poll trap. If our guy (or gal) is winning -then the polls are awesome. If our guy (or gal) is not winning - the polls musts be wrong.

Rasmussen seems the most reliable.

chickelit said...

I just saw this Hitler Parody at Power Line. There are some good one liners (as there must be in that genre), but it made me realize that ragazines like the National Review and Billy Cristol's outfit. They really are looking forward to a Hillary presidency. Think about it: They will look like the voices of reason against her tyranny; they will never cease to remind readers that "it could have been Cruz." They are definitely in this for the money.

chickelit said...

Rable - Conservatives always fall into the poll trap. If our guy (or gal) is winning -then the polls are awesome. If our guy (or gal) is not winning - the polls musts be wrong.

I think we should accept that Hillary is beating Trump badly in the polls for now. It gives Trump an underdog edge.

Rabel said...

"Rable - Conservatives always fall into the poll trap. If our guy (or gal) is winning -then the polls are awesome. If our guy (or gal) is not winning - the polls musts be wrong."

That's not an answer to my question.

AprilApple said...

Rable. No.

Trump has a lot of real problems. Real flip flops. This is a man who criticized Romney for being too tough on immigration. This is a man, along with his successes, has made some dismal decisions with his business dealings. Then he lies about them to cover it up which only makes him look worse. Trump university is not a half-truth. Then there's his mouth.

chickelit said...

@April: So who is your best alternative to Trump as of today? Or is it just a "you guys screwed the pooch" shrug?

AprilApple said...

*who has*

AprilApple said...

Chick It's "you guys screwed the pooch". I do think it's too late. We are stuck with him.

btw re: your comment about National Review sekritlee wanting Hillary. You are as bad as I am with the conspiracies. (and I'm right)

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

Support is measured by polls. You can ignore the polls are your leisure.

Until Labor Day, I intend to.

And, of course, if this week's events start making Trump look good in the polls, you will ignore them.

chickelit said...

Rable - Conservatives always fall into the poll trap. If our guy (or gal) is winning -then the polls are awesome. If our guy (or gal) is not winning - the polls musts be wrong.

I think we should accept that Hillary is beating Trump badly in the polls for now. It gives Trump an underdog edge.


Like Hell we should if there's a good reason not to.

You assume all the polls agree and they don't.

Pull out the skew noted by American Thinker and the Daily Mail, and the network polls look like Fox and Ras.

You know polls are used to drive public opinion, so why is it so impossible the Lefty news organizations are using theirs that way? They lie to you about everything else, why should they be assumed to be acting honestly here?

But, to partly agree, I think Trump is campaigning as if he needs to wipe out a deficit. He wants people fired up and is campaigning across the country to do it.

Besides, we all know how Trump didn't have a prayer against Jeb! and little Marco and the One True Ted. All the polls said so.

edutcher said...

chickelit said...

@April: So who is your best alternative to Trump as of today? Or is it just a "you guys screwed the pooch" shrug?

She won't say because her choice would be getting killed by Cacklepants right now.

If, in fact, it isn't Cacklepants herself. You know trolls always attack.

chickelit said...

As for Trump's apparently contradictory statements such as his sharp criticisms of Romney's immigration policies in 2012 vs. now -- people like April should ask and Trump should answer. But, I bet Trump finds resonance among people who were themselves inconsistent over that time period.

This election is not about rigid orthodoxy. NRO et al. still cannot believe that.

chickelit said...

edutcher reasoned: You know polls are used to drive public opinion, so why is it so impossible the Lefty news organizations are using theirs that way? They lie to you about everything else, why should they be assumed to be acting honestly here?

Democrat voters get complacent when they hear Hillary is beating Trump. Of course, the Democrat shills get more shrill.

Just let April have the deception that Hillary is vastly more popular than Trump. It doesn't square with what I feel or know, but it's not hurting at this point.

AprilApple said...

The scandal factor is completely blown with Trump.

Had we chosen a scandal-free candidate, the focus on Hillary's scandals would be easy and relentless. Now, we have Trump scandals to compete with hers. What scandal do you think the media will obsess and blow out of proportion?

chickelit said...

edutcher wrote: She won't say because her choice would be getting killed by Cacklepants right now.

I asked April, not you edutcher. Though I always appreciate your thoughts too.

chickelit said...

Had we chosen a scandal-free candidate, the focus on Hillary's scandals would be easy and relentless. Now, we have Trump scandals to compete with hers. What scandal do you think the media will obsess and blow out of proportion?

Yes but who?

Who???

AprilApple said...

Chickl - I don't need to make Trump answer for all his flip flops. The problem is, as the opposition points his flip flops out, other voters might become suspicious of Trumps true intentions. Like -perhaps he's full of shit?

AprilApple said...

@ Chick Just let April have the deception that Hillary is vastly more popular than Trump. It doesn't square with what I feel or know, but it's not hurting at this point.

She isn't vastly more popular. Trump is vastly less popular, and sinking.

Hillary will probably win with fewer votes. A lot of people are going to sit it out.

Methadras said...

Any and all polls at this point are nothing but pure persuasive propaganda. That's what they are designed and tailored to do. They won't matter until even after the conventions and I suspect that they will be more wrong than ever before, because they are an art, not a science.

With respect to Trump, He clearly beat out 16 other people to get to this point, so were the other candidates points not persuasive enough to9 be where he is now? We are talking about this in a thread about persuasion right? How were Trumps persuasions more empowered than say Bush, Cruz, Christy, or Rubio's? How did these guys not make persuasive cases for their candidacy and yet Trump is the one standing alone. The GOPe seems to think that beating these guys isn't enough, that cheating to try and steal wins isn't enough. Even in Colorado after Cruz walked in, took votes, walked out, bragged about it, wasn't persuasive enough? Trump fucked up there for sure, but look where he is now. Persuasion?

Everyone wants to know what everyone else is doing and who they are going to vote for and why and how. None of that matters. When you look at the dichotomies in front of you of a Hillary presidency and a Trump presidency, ask yourself, are you persuaded known what you know now who you will be voting for warts and all and did you make the right decision. Are you willing to live with the outcome?

chickelit said...

A lot of people are going to sit it out.

A lot of people sitting out their own future.

edutcher said...

Certainly not the One True Ted.

BTW 2 weeks before the '80 election Reagan was down 8.

PS Nice point on the polls. My view is don't get wound up until Labor Day, but, even then, in this era of cell phones, beware of how many surprises there are going to be.

I just want everybody to keep an even keel on the media onslaught and understand what's really going on.

As I say, this election will be event-driven and many cards have yet to fall. For example, Drudge has links to stories Pissy and Hillary have imported a million Moslems in the past 8 years, as well as the fact more illegals have crossed so far this year than in all of last.

AprilApple said...

The scandal factor is completely blown with Trump.

And what scandal is that?

Emails?

Benghazi?

The Clinton Global Slush Fund?

Importation of Moslems?

Methadras said...

AprilApple said...

The scandal factor is completely blown with Trump.

Had we chosen a scandal-free candidate, the focus on Hillary's scandals would be easy and relentless. Now, we have Trump scandals to compete with hers. What scandal do you think the media will obsess and blow out of proportion?


What scandals? Trump has been married three times. He cheated twice. He wrote checks to democrats. He was a democrat because it was financially, economically, and politically expedient being in New York. To which I can understand, to which I end up saying, so what? Yes, the media will make hay out of his 'scandals' but in reality his retort at scandal for Hillary will be manifest at her level of scandal. From her first one as FLOTUS with TravelGate all the way down now to her illegal email server and leaks of state secrets to her fund where she's taken money from countries that kill homosexuals. This is a target rich environment and Trump will have the upper hand here I think.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

She isn't vastly more popular. Trump is vastly less popular, and sinking.

He is? Funny people agree with him on the Moslem ban 4 to 1 over Cacklepants. And your gullibility on the polls is now officially risible.

Hillary will probably win with fewer votes. A lot of people are going to sit it out.

You're the only one who buys that. Trump has gotten more people fired up than anyone in recent history. Look at the primaries.

Methadras said...

Any and all polls at this point are nothing but pure persuasive propaganda. That's what they are designed and tailored to do. They won't matter until even after the conventions and I suspect that they will be more wrong than ever before, because they are an art, not a science.

The Blonde says statistics aren't normal thinking, but you're right. This is battlepace prep.

chickelit said...

A lot of people are going to sit it out.

A lot of people sitting out their own future.


Doubt the first point, with you all the way on the second.

If I could give it a Like (and thank God we haven't got that here), I would.

Lem said...

If Trump wins, the separation of powers could make a big comeback. Like Rubio used to say, Trump bankrupted a casino, he will need to be watched.

On the other hand, if Hillary wins... They, Hillary and Bill both, will take it as the American people stamp of approval of the Clinton Foundation and they will go for broke. Bill will give as many speeches as his old body allows him to stand raking in the dough.

Nobody watches a Democrat like they watch a Republican. Obama exhibit A.

AprilApple said...

His "Mexican" comment was a full blown scandal. Yes I agree compared to Hillary's actual corruption - eh. so what? So what to you and me. But it's not eh if people are turned off by him and the media take it and use it to bombard him for a week while Hillary gets positive coverage.

I'll be thrilled if you all tell me "I told you so" after Trump wins big! I just don't see it.

He has real scandals, Meth. Trump university, some of his other business deals that went sour, his connections to the mob that he denies - I agree all a big nothing compared to Hillary. wait until the ads start rolling in. Hillary is desperate to win and she is going to smear him with his own words. That stuff if powerful. You can deny it all you want.

AprilApple said...

A lot of Obama voters have soured. My German friend is a professional kitchen designer and her husband runs his own company. They have been screwed over by the very people they voted for and they know it. (they vote D, generally)

you know what they said to me the other day after the election subject came up? No way they are voting for Trump. So I said - "well, no way I'm voting for Hillary." - then they said in response "Oh we won't vote for Hillary, no way. we will sit this one out."
hmmm.

AprilApple said...

A lot of people sitting out their own future.

I know. I really lost out when I didn't pony up 500 bucks for that telecommunications pyramid scheme.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

<i.His "Mexican" comment was a full blown scandal</i.

Scandal?

Hardly.

The media wanted to paint him as a racist because he called out a judge who was all mobbed up with La Raza.

A scandal is Benghazi. A scandal is Monica. A scandal is the email server. A scandal is why Heidi doesn't allow women around the One True Ted.

You need to get a dictionary.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

His "Mexican" comment was a full blown scandal

Scandal?

Hardly.

The media wanted to paint him as a racist because he called out a judge who was all mobbed up with La Raza. It's hardly a scandal.

A scandal is Benghazi. A scandal is Monica. A scandal is the email server. A scandal is why Heidi doesn't allow women around the One True Ted.

You need to get a dictionary.

Methadras said...

AprilApple said...

His "Mexican" comment was a full blown scandal.


How is that a scandal? Because it was politically incorrect? That makes it a scandal? Does that rise to the level of being a scandal? I'll respectfully disagree on that.

Yes I agree compared to Hillary's actual corruption - eh. so what? So what to you and me. But it's not eh if people are turned off by him and the media take it and use it to bombard him for a week while Hillary gets positive coverage.

Those people are already misinformed and malformed troglodytes. People on the left that willfully deny reality of Hillary's actual scandals are troglodytes. Trump knows how to handle the media, that is clear. He isn't intimidated by them or will let them get away with their bullshit. They can bombard him all they want, but he'll just dust it off and keep moving forward. If he starts buying massive amounts of TV time, which he's already said he would do and has done, he will be able to counter the Harpy's lies.

I'll be thrilled if you all tell me "I told you so" after Trump wins big! I just don't see it.

I'm not going to do that. Well, maybe a little. A bit. :D

He has real scandals, Meth. Trump university, some of his other business deals that went sour, his connections to the mob that he denies - I agree all a big nothing compared to Hillary. wait until the ads start rolling in.

Bad business ventures aren't scandals. Being sued isn't a scandal. People are sued every day for the most nonsensical shit on earth and those aren't scandals. If I had a business go bad and I got sued for it, would it be a scandal? No. A scandal would be if I had a business venture and I was screwing the wife of a more powerful competitor and he crushed me or something. That's a scandal.

Hillary is desperate to win and she is going to smear him with his own words. That stuff if powerful. You can deny it all you want.

She's desperate to win because she knows it does three things, the first is that it makes her president, the second it gets and keeps her out of jail, the third is that she will go on a revenge tour against he enemies the likes of which have never been seen in the history of this country. That should be what Trump should be saying. If you elect Crooked Hillary, she will seek revenge against everyone that has crossed her. She does it now.

ndspinelli said...

70 comments w/o a cuckservsative or rice bowl mention. Baby step improvement.

chickelit said...

I have voted for more D's than R's in my voting lifetime. I realize that both Trump and Clinton have tremendous negatives. Yet, I can see lots of positive in Trump and virtually nothing positive about Hillary Clinton as President.

I also have a bit of contrarian in me. I am going to spend some time trying to think of something -- anything -- positive about a Clinton presidency at this point in time. I honestly can't think of anything.

Chip Ahoy said...

Something's off, I keep breaking into song. People talking about Trump does that. Weird, huh?

Reading the posts the wrong way as Japanese people do with their books that go backwards, I saw Methadras' defense of Trump's Democrat past and criminal associations and cheap bastard mafia type practices and I'm all Judy Collins seeing clouds from both sides now in real high whiny sort of raw soprano sosteniendo tremolo, a term I just now made up because it sounded good to me.

And moments later continuing upward Methadras again suggesting Crystal Trump Persuasion, look over yonder. What do you see? The sun is ris'n most definitely.

Oncoming madness? Sugar? Could be a sugar buzz, I'm drinking a Pepsi and those things are like cocaine, so I read a long time ago, decades ago, in Sugar Blues by William Duffy. It left a lasting impression and gave me a whole new appreciation for sugar. Put me off sugar for years. Then I realized all the sweetness I was missing.

chickelit said...

@Nick: I'm signing "ricebowl" to comments at TOP. Sort of the way Titus did with "tits."

Speaking of Titus, where has he been? I sort of expected him to weigh in on the brown hotness of the Orlando shooter.

Sixty Grit said...

Have the names of the victims been released yet?

Oh snap - there I go again!

edutcher said...

I know they've been IDed, found the list,

As for Titus, he's up in the People's Republic, isn't he?

PS Chick, he probably would.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

His "Mexican" comment was a full blown scandal.


Is this the quote you are thinking of? “When Mexico (meaning the Mexican Government) sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you (pointing to the audience). They’re not sending you (pointing again). They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs.They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people! But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people. It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast.”

What exactly do you find scandalous? Serious question.

Every single thing in this statement is factual, true and non controversial to anyone who lives in the Border States, who has been paying attention and most importantly....who isn't crippled by political correctness.

Not a scandal. The scandal is that it has taken so long for someone to finally speak the truth and be on the side of the American public instead of the illegal criminals invading our country.

Rabel said...

"Rable. No."

OK. I'm glad we cleared that up.

Methadras said...

chickelit said...

@Nick: I'm signing "ricebowl" to comments at TOP. Sort of the way Titus did with "tits."

Speaking of Titus, where has he been? I sort of expected him to weigh in on the brown hotness of the Orlando shooter.


Hope he wasn't a pulse victim.

chickelit said...

Hope he wasn't a pulse victim.

Titus hates the south and would have been loathe to go there.

AprilApple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AprilApple said...

DBQ - Not that quote.. Trump's weird "He's a Mexican" comments on Judge Curiel regarding the Trump University Case. I have no problem with him pointing out the fact that the judge is biased, but Trump criticized the judge in a manor that caused a huge storm. Every Trump storm = gift to Hillary's hack media. (the media)

chickelit said...

@DBQ: I was in the audience in San Diego when Trump said: "The judge, who happens to be, we believe, Mexican.."

I cringed when I heard that. The media jumped all over Trump, trying to "gotcha him" with the fact that Curiel was born in the US.

More recently, Trump said about the Orlando shooter: "He was born an Afghan..." Some pundits (including Althouse) assumed it was a gaffe and that Trump said "he was born in Afghan" misusing "Afghan" as the name of the country.

My theory is that Curiel was born to Mexican parents in the US and thus, at birth, a Mexican citizen. Likewise, the Orlando shooter was born in the US to Afghani parents and thus a legal (de jus) Afghani. YMMV

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Trump's weird "He's a Mexican" comments on Judge Curiel regarding the Trump University Case.

I agree that Trump can be very clumsy in his wording, but what he said about the Judge is quite true. He is a Mexican in that his parents are Mexicans and that the Judge identifies as a Mexican based on all of the organizations he belongs to and donates to. Trump is correct, although he should have been more specific about the Mexican tag being about his cultural affiliation. The Judge self identifies as Mexican first and not as American.

Mexican is not a race, so the claim that it was a racist remark is just stupid.

If I claim to be Irish, wear green on St Paddy's, join nothing but Irish clubs and agitate for the IRA to retake the North of Ireland, you would have to assume I affiliate with the Irish more than I do America.

Same thing, except I'm not a judge with life and death powers.

AprilApple said...

Trump cannot afford to keep making mistakes. He can't hide behind PC forever. And it IS damaging him.

He was neck and neck with Hillary and now he's dropped. People are losing confidence based on HIS words - nothing more. He may talk the kind of tough-talk you like, but he doesn't inspire confidence as a commander and chief when he cannot get the small stuff right.... over and over. It's also an articulation problem.

AprilApple said...

We are all sick to death of the race talk. Trump needs to back off it and let the left stew in that crap. They are the race dividers!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I agree with you April. Trump keeps making unforced errors, mostly in his clumsily worded statements that he has to later clean up.

However, this technique is something that has been a sort of positive for him in that it gets Trump tons of attention and air time.

1. Make an outrageous statement about a topic that no one previously wanted to touch with a ten foot pole.

2. Everyone begins talking about how horrible it is. The hyperbole and vitriol on the Liberal side turns off some who sort of agree with Trump's basic premise, if not with this actual words.

3. The statement turns out to be the truth or have more than an element of truth in it and Trump sits back and lets everyone else argue about it.

4. Trump then makes a clarifying statement, not an apology mind you a statement, and then appears to be more reasonable.

5. Rinse and repeat.

Lately, Trump's statements and speeches have been more precise. He needs to be more precise, but he certainly shouldn't stop being "Trump" or morph into a cookie cutter RINO politician. THAT would be the way to lose for sure. He is walking a fine line between trying to appease the April's of the world and not diluting himself into becoming one of the namby pamby political dopes we have had in the past.

Trooper York said...

This whole controversy about Trump University is a bunch of bullshit ginned up by Hillary Trolls like April. While ignoring Laureate University and the millions that Bill Clinton looted from it. This is what partisan trolls do.

Look the fact is that judges are attacked all the time because of who they are. The black judge in Baltimore in the Freddy Grey cases is being attacked because is black. The white judge who was a frat boy in the Stanford rape case is being attacked for being a white frat boy. It happens all the time. This is a phony smear attack being pushed by the mainstream media's desire to be politically correct. Trump is right when he tells you pussies to man up. Don't bow down to this. If he loses because he told the truth then he loses.

Just realize you are on the other side. If you want more political correctness so people are afraid to point out a Muslim terrorist before he kills a gaggle of homos well then this is your issue.

Trooper York said...

April you are so full of shit. Hillary inspires an idea of what a commander of chief should be? Who else does that for you? Little Marco? Tough guy John Kasich? Bernie? What a load of crap. You just hate Trump. You always have. You always will.

It is not an error to tell the truth. It is an error to surrender to Paul Ryan and Karl Rove and all the rest who want Trump to be like Mitt Romney. So he can lose. That's what they want. They want to be in opposition. Not to win. Not to get things done.

The polls don't mean crap this far out. There have not been any debates. Many incidents will happen between now and then. I bet there will be a couple of more terrorist incidents. I bet one of them will be an refugee or an immigrant that Obama imported from Syria. Statistically that is probable. Even more so since Obama tempted fate by saying these were "Home grown/lone wolf" terrorist it stands to reason that there will be another attempt at a soft target.

Of course I understand why you want to quit. To surrender. To give in to Hillary. That is what you want. To lose. Just like that Quisling Paul Ryan and that scumbag Mitch McConnell.

Trooper York said...

DBQ is exactly right. If you want an example of how not to do it look at Johnny Boy McCain who is going to lose his Senate seat. He told the truth about Obama. He could back it up with facts. When the liberal media attacked because he was mussing up the Jug Eared Jesus he folded like a cheap suitcase. That is exactly the wrong way to do it.

But then McCain, Graham and Ryan specialize in that.

chickelit said...

Of course I understand why you want to quit. To surrender. To give in to Hillary. That is what you want. To lose. Just like that Quisling Paul Ryan and that scumbag Mitch McConnell.

Take it easy Troop, April already said she'd vote for Trump. Don't make her not.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

I have no problem with him pointing out the fact that the judge is biased, but Trump criticized the judge in a manor that caused a huge storm

In the Lefty media. How many real people gave a damn?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I agree with you April. Trump keeps making unforced errors, mostly in his clumsily worded statements that he has to later clean up.

Errors or just what most people are thinking but afraid to say? How many people say, "Yeah"? That's what Adams meant by "rapport" in the vid.

It's my contention you take the skew out of the network polls and you've got what the real people, what Last Refuge calls the Monster Vote, think.

YMMV

Trooper York said...

Look the fact is that judges are attacked all the time because of who they are. The black judge in Baltimore in the Freddy Grey cases is being attacked because is black.

They're also going after him because the third of those six cops to be tried is probably walking with the first two.

Half the cops are black, the judge is black, but they get blamed. The race-baiting mayor and the Diversity Hire DA who are also black aren't mentioned. If Hillary had a daughter...

DBQ is exactly right. If you want an example of how not to do it look at Johnny Boy McCain who is going to lose his Senate seat. He told the truth about Obama. He could back it up with facts. When the liberal media attacked because he was mussing up the Jug Eared Jesus he folded like a cheap suitcase. That is exactly the wrong way to do it

Troop, you will like this one.

PS chick, if she hates Hillary as much as she says, nothing could keep her from the polls if she had to crawl over broken glass. Problem is, she sounds more like she hates Trump more than Hillary and wants him to lose.

I'm betting on Door #2.

AprilApple said...

ed-ache- you are the definition of thick.

AprilApple said...

Trooper- I have no idea why you don't piss me off. You should, but instead I just laugh.

AprilApple said...

Chickl - ;-) Don't worry. Trump is the only person with the power to make me not vote at all. He could still screw it up.

Troop - I won't ever support or vote for Hillary. That's just nutz and if you believe it, you might need therapy.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

ed-ache- you are the definition of thick

Facts stink, don't they?

Much easier to try to scare people with a lot of Lefty drivel if they don't have access to what's really going on.

Again, if you wanted a troll, what would they be doing April isn't?

AprilApple said...

You don't give facts, ed ache- you give treehouse wagon circle of denial.

AprilApple said...

Trump's mistakes are not lefty drivel, you fucking moron.

Rhythm and Balls said...

ed - let me ask you a question.

Do you think that everything objectionable that someone might raise about Trump is a left-wing thing?

Rhythm and Balls said...

Troop - I won't ever support or vote for Hillary. That's just nutz and if you believe it, you might need therapy.

It's interesting, April. I notice these guys do it to me, too. Either you're with Trump or you're with Hillary. They don't seem to notice that some of us would never vote for either Hitler or Stalin. Hillary or Trump. Some of us actually want neither and will vote for neither.

And yet, this is sometimes also the voice of the "anti-duopoly". Here I am, supporting neither candidate, but the anti-duopolists would question my own commitment.

There are certain Trump supporters who declare my allegiance as readily as the Clinton supporters do. So they both have that in common. Clinton supporters accuse me of wanting Trump and Trump supporters accuse me of wanting Hillary.

Why don't these people wake up to the fact that their place within the two parties/two candidates are not the only stances that a principled voter can take?

Trooper York said...

No of course not. But if it is based on political correctness it is pure liberal bullshit.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Look the fact is that judges are attacked all the time because of who they are.

Not by presidential candidates. Trump seems to be breaking new ground here where it comes to separation of powers.

Rhythm and Balls said...

No of course not. But if it is based on political correctness it is pure liberal bullshit.

So every objection to bigotry or racism is political correctness?

Let's put it this way. Instead of calling Der Trumpf a bigot or racist, how about just saying he has a certain fixation with Mexicans?

I'm not just talking about immigration. I think that's a legitimate problem that's been neglected.

But Ryan's stance on letting a judge be a judge does not seem to be political correctness. At some point people just have to be allowed to do their jobs, I would say.

Rhythm and Balls said...

If I claim to be Irish, wear green on St Paddy's, join nothing but Irish clubs and agitate for the IRA to retake the North of Ireland, you would have to assume I affiliate with the Irish more than I do America.

Wrong. Green on St Paddy's is nearly ubiquitous. A first-generation Irish-American I know of refers to them as "the once-a-year Irish." The holiday's probably become Americanized beyond recognition. Freaking black people and everyone else wear green and do the get drunk and hook up thing.

That's what America does. It takes from the other cultures. If it had one of its own, it was Anglican or Episcopalian or whatever. How many Trump-supporters believe that Anglican English patriotism is or should be the only natural default state of patriotic cultural identification in America?

You're starting to make unforced errors of your own, here. This is why Trump's support in the general has a low ceiling if it's only about race talk alone. Or even predominantly or aggressively enough.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Every single thing in this statement is factual, true and non controversial to anyone who lives in the Border States, who has been paying attention and most importantly....who isn't crippled by political correctness.

Is it really true? All true? Is "Mexico" (i.e. "the government") actually "sending" anybody? I thought people were leaving for better conditions here. That seems to be what migrants do, generally speaking. What government in history has set about on mass deportations of its own people, simply due to the state of their own, commonplace poverty?

Trump is pulling a Scott Adams here. He says "send" to signal an actual belligerent invasion, to frame the discussion in military and survival terms. Whether you think too many Mexicans are here or get in here or not, it is a huge distortion of reality to pretend that they are part of an armed invasion, no matter how ridiculously they play around with talk of regaining lost territory from hundreds of years ago. That land is not going back to the government they deliberately fled and they know it, and they're probably grateful for that.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Anyway, here's the issue. As long as America remains an empire, it's going to do what empires do: Attempt to unify and agglomerate all the peoples of the world under the aegis of its own military hegemony. It's not going to care if they come here or if we go there. Rome wouldn't have been over-run by Vandals and Huns and Goths if it wasn't a military behemoth dead-set on defining who was boss on that continent, accumulating more power and wealth than anyone. If it had just left everyone alone instead, focused on its own issues, there would have been nothing worth over-running. Sure, it might have been invaded. But nothing provokes like a crumbling imperialistic behemoth.

edutcher said...

AprilApple said...

You don't give facts, ed ache- you give treehouse wagon circle of denial.

I quote a lot of people. Last Refuge, not so much, but at least their stuff is documented, not skewed.

I know, it's only is true if it's against Trump.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Do you think that everything objectionable that someone might raise about Trump is a left-wing thing?

Somebody brought up the University, his bankruptcies. As long as you're willing to put out the facts, I have no problem, but a lot of the people who tried to use those were either lying or just quoting somebody else's propaganda. I went and linked in the facts. Good, bad, or ugly and let people make up their own minds.

Hey, Troop thinks Trump is soft on Social Conservatism. I disagree; I think he's changed his mind since the Obamanation. Some things, he has a different take.

The bathroom thing; his first thought was what it would cost to provide a third bathroom everywhere. Troop was cool to it, but it occurred to me maybe it's a good thing to have a guy whose first instinct is to count the cost. Especially if we're 20T in the hole.

But I see Troop's point.

Some of the NeverTrumpers panic over the thing with the judge because they still think the One True Ted might be more trustworthy and they'll grab at anything they can to try to grab the nomination. I beg to differ.

Point is, some people want a "perfect" candidate. He don't exist. Trump I like because he fights back. I'm no absolutist on firearms like Sixty, although I see his point, too, but I reminded him Trump only announced a meeting with the NRA and we've heard no announcements from either party when he had a meltdown here.

April's idea of a point, however, is parroting the worst nonsense of the Lefty media when there's plenty of evidence (beside the fact most people here don't trust them) that it's all a crock. She does everything she can to spread the FUD nice and thick and expects everybody to believe her when she says she's vote for him.

Pardon my skepticism.

Troop - I won't ever support or vote for Hillary. That's just nutz and if you believe it, you might need therapy.

Actually, it comes a quite a shock.

It's interesting, April. I notice these guys do it to me, too. Either you're with Trump or you're with Hillary. They don't seem to notice that some of us would never vote for either Hitler or Stalin. Hillary or Trump. Some of us actually want neither and will vote for neither.

Then you're voting for Hillary. You know that.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rhythm and Balls said...

I think we should accept that Hillary is beating Trump badly in the polls for now. It gives Trump an underdog edge.

Lol. I like this phrasing. Next candidate I support who loses support and then gets wiped out on election day, I'll say that he simply proved what an "underdog edge" he had. Especially when those returns came in. ;-)

edutcher said...

Rhythm and Balls said...

Anyway, here's the issue. As long as America remains an empire, it's going to do what empires do: Attempt to unify and agglomerate all the peoples of the world under the aegis of its own military hegemony. It's not going to care if they come here or if we go there

Put down the Gore Vidal and walk slowly away from the keyboard.

AprilApple said...

R & B - the delusion about Trump's chances (and pointing it out) means we support Hillary.... or something.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Then you're voting for Hillary. You know that.

Nope. Not going into a booth and pulling a lever for a picture of someone named "Hillary Rodham Clinton" is actually, you know, not voting for Hillary. There are other people on there. I don't need to be a part of the duopoly. You sound exactly like family members I know who accuse me of voting for Trump by not voting for Hillary.

I think both y'all can screw off. And I mean that in the most affectionate way. ;-)

But seriously, you really are proving my point. I can take part in neither side of this tribal war. And unless something changes, I fully intend to. You can accuse libertarians (who Republicans used to need to win) who also vote 3rd party or not at all of doing the same. Doesn't bother me.

And I can also do what more than half of all Americans do and simply not vote. I can stay home. Seems like the American thing to do, seeing how many of them/us do it.

Give us something to vote for, not just against. People rarely come out to vote against something. That's what you guys don't realize about Trumpllary. They might as well be the same candidate, also. At least I give Trump credit for attempting to think that he can or would want to woo Sanders voters. After all, their grievances are similar, even if most of their prescriptions (but not all) are different.

But with Trumpllary, we are dealing with the two most negatively-rated candidates of all time, at least going back as far as these things have been measured. It's two people bringing out the least popular answers (no offense) to a public that has been screwed over royally for decades, to the point where they can't recognize progress. One from the anti-establishment and one more establishment than has ever existed.

Sure hope the worst person doesn't win and does a good job. But it's a distinction I can no longer make, this lesser of two evils. Each one is still an evil.

I'm sure that if my job were in sanitation and I had to constantly differentiate between the worst smelling sewage and the second-worst smelling sewage, after a while I would climb out, take a nice long shower, disinfect, repeat for several months, rub on some perfumes under the care of the best Swedish masseuses known to man, and never look back. Leave the stink to the stinkers.

Enjoy the stink!

edutcher said...

The delusion, or should I say the obsession, is all yours.

But, hey, 30 whole delegates intend to hijack the nomination even though Trump has almost 1600 delegates. Why don't you go running down the halls screaming, "Hallelujah, he's beaten"?

edutcher said...

Sorry, Rit.

The excuse of not soiling your lily white patties with anyone you don't like. A vote not for Trump is a vote for Hillary.

Snow somebody else.

AprilApple said...

Ed's blind faith support for a weirdo = Hillary supporter.

ndspinelli said...

April, You just laugh because the man is laughable and getting pathetic in having to attack anyone who does not suck his guy's dick. I refer you to Synova's superb piece this morning. 'Nuff said. Almost all of us commented on Synova's post. Hell, even the prodigal son, blake, made a comment. As I've said many times, part of my trade craft is observing and listening to what people don't do or say. With some folks, that is much more revealing than the bullshit they do and say.

AprilApple said...

Ed-ache No, wrong, OY - a vote for none of the above is just that - none of the above.

You could just as easily say a non-vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump, but your small brain won't allow that to filter through.

Rhythm and Balls said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dust Bunny Queen said...

Is "Mexico" (i.e. "the government") actually "sending" anybody?

Yes. In a way. They are facilitating the movement of those undesireable Central Americans through Mexico and dumping them into the US. They don't want these people in their country so they do the next best thing and send them on down the line. They have made it easier for the coyotes to operate. At worst they are actively helping at best just turning a blind eye.

The Mexican government has published pamphlets to instruct the invading hordes how to do it. How to collect benefits. This has been going on for YEARS.

If the criminal elements in their country want to leave, they Mexican government is all for it. They have enough problems with the cartels as it is. Send the scum northward is the attitude.

The Mexican government also approves of the money being sent from the illegals in the US to their citizens who remain. It is a huge amount of money Mexico received $21.59 billion in remittances from emigrants in 2013, the Bank of Mexico said. Nearly 74 million transactions were registered in 2013, with the average remittance totaling $292, the central bank said. Remittances rose 3.5 percent to $5.34 billion in the fourth quarter of last year, compared to the same period in 2012, with 18.4 million transactions and an average amount of $285.30, the Bank of Mexico said. These are Old figures It is even worse now.

All that money being funneled out of the US system, not having had taxes paid on it for the most part, and then funneled into the Mexican economy.

Yes. The Mexican government is aiding and abetting illegal immigration. They are making out like bandits.

Trump has tried to point this out. We are being destroyed culturally and economically. It has to stop.

edutcher said...

Pathetic is the NeverTrumpers who keep clicking their red shoes in the hope it will take them back to March when the One True Ted had to resort to poaching delegates.

AprilApple said...

Ed's blind faith support for a weirdo = Hillary supporter.

That's you, sweetie.

Ed-ache No, wrong, OY - a vote for none of the above is just that - none of the above.

That isn't even clever trollery.

For want of a nail..., I believe is the phrase.

Rhythm and Balls said...

The excuse of not soiling your lily white patties with anyone you don't like. A vote not for Trump is a vote for Hillary.

Snow somebody else.


Give me something/someone to vote for. Not just against.

Both sides of the Trump-lary equation say the same thing: "We're slightly/massively less objectionable than the other!"

No, you aren't.

Also, if you are that desperate for one single vote, coming from a single voter (i.e. me) whose views you obviously have no respect for anyway, then how desperate is that? You're practically admitting how horrible your candidate is by trolling for single votes here, and from someone who usually doesn't even vote Republican anyway (and never for a narcissist) - and threatening me with this idea that your outcome for the whole election hangs in the balance based on my single, lonely old vote. Oh, the pressure!

I am part of the majority this year, ed. The non-voter. The non-voting public might not speak that loudly, but our views are out there if you want them, if you cared about them.

Be the businessman that you said politicians should be, and get to know your market. Ask yourself what you're doing wrong by not getting my vote/my purchase, instead of blaming me. If you were trying to sell a product that no one wanted, would you actually blame the consuming market? Bad customer! Not buying my wares! Horrible people!

Do a little of what your Chief National Marketer is doing and try to sell something more than just your hatred of the competition. But if he's any example, you'll keep banging on about trying to excite the narrowest slice of the market possible. And blame the bankruptcy/failure on the non-consumers.

I guess that would suck, if you actually were interested in thinking about it. I'd sure hate to be an executive at that round table the next day.

edutcher said...

Rhythm and Balls said...

Give me something/someone to vote for. Not just against.

Most people in this country vote against, not for. Join the club.

But, if you're that desperate, there's always Operation Wetback II.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Is "Mexico" (i.e. "the government") actually "sending" anybody?

Yes. In a way. They are facilitating the movement of those undesireable Central Americans through Mexico and dumping them into the US. They don't want these people in their country so they do the next best thing and send them on down the line. They have made it easier for the coyotes to operate. At worst they are actively helping at best just turning a blind eye.


The same outfit trucking in the illegals is the one for whom the Orlando shooter worked.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Most people in this country vote against, not for. Join the club.

Correction: Most people in this country DON'T VOTE, ed. And I predict that even less of them will vote this year.

At least, for Trump. Hillary could change that, but that's on her. It's not something I expect her to do, either. But she's just crafty and well-resourced and ambitious to have something up her sleeve.

Whether she cares more about undecideds or Trump does (obviously you don't) is anyone's guess. At the moment, Trump is actually doing better outreach than she is, too dumb to even realize that the half of her party not with her hates her more than the half of Republican non-Trump voters would be willing to entertain a Trump campaign that actually does reach out to them... and even beyond.

But obviously you have no use for that so what's the point in discussing it. You tell people to either share your base priorities or get bent.

Getting bent sounds more fun and profitable. ;-)

You, you win The Worst Political Salesman of the Century Award.

And that's saying a lot. I've heard some pretty bad Hillary Sales Force Team members, as well.

You take the cake though, when it comes to poor salesmanship. A Trump University grad you are obviously not.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Is it ironic, or predictable, April, that a Trump-booster would be such a poor salesman of Trump?

I mean, all I hear is Trump, Trump, Trump. Trump Steaks, Trump Towers, Trump University, Trump Miss America Petunia Pageant, etc., etc., etc.

And yet, here is little ed, all by his lonesome (but not without moral support from Trump's Campaign, telling me, "He's not Hillary!"

Wow. That's persuasive.

A guy who puts his name on everything can't even tell me what's good about him other than his not being Hillary.

Way to set the bar real high there.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I think Trump should file to change the name of all his corporate holdings to "The Not-Hillary Corporation."

Instead of Trump Towers, it will be "Not Hillary Towers!"

Instead of Trump Steaks, it will be "Not Hillary Steaks!"

Not Hillary University. Not Hillary Miss America.

Oops. Maybe that last one actually works, for a change.

The Not Hillary Presidency.

He will amend the presidential seal to have it say, "The Not Hillary Presidential Administration."

And they say Trump really knows how to define himself.

Well, at least ed tells me he does.

ed, are you Not Hillary, also?

That makes a lot of Not Hillaries in this country. Any one of them we could vote for.

Perhaps the Army of Not HIllarys will take on and win against the Army of Not Trumps.

It's a close call. They really do seem to hate each other much more than they like themselves.

edutcher said...

Rhythm and Balls said...

Most people in this country vote against, not for. Join the club.

Correction: Most people in this country DON'T VOTE, ed. And I predict that even less of them will vote this year.


If the primaries are any indication, more will be out this year.

And I'm more of an AlwaysAmerica. I really didn't think about Trump until just about the time the primaries began. As I say, I like his fight.

Rhythm and Balls said...

How does it feel to like "the fight" of a guy with the historically highest unfavorables?

I mean, what if in a desperate effort to fight hard to save this country, more of the country hates the guy than likes him?

I guess the virtue of being a die-hard believer in anything, Trumpism included, is that there is no need for a Plan B.

But it is a bit odd to define one's patriotism in a way that most Americans might actually oppose. Or have less use for than other things.

What if you could just throw out the country and get a new one? One that feels as strongly about the leader you support?

Maybe that's a better way to go.

Good country, bad people. Tell the American people, "They're fired!"

Rhythm and Balls said...

This country is clearly too good for its people.

Fire them.

edutcher said...

Say, "Good night", Gracie.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Polly want a cracker?

AprilApple said...

You could just as easily say a non-vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump, but your small brain won't allow that to filter through.

worth a troll repeat.

AprilApple said...

@ R & B - (re: ed-ache)
But obviously you have no use for that so what's the point in discussing it. You tell people to either share your base priorities or get bent.

Getting bent sounds more fun and profitable. ;-)

You, you win The Worst Political Salesman of the Century Award.


No kidding.

AprilApple said...

DBQ - That;s the sort of information that, that presented with some articulation beyond "Some bad people/ some good people" - would help Trump gain support.

Obama's border

AprilApple said...

tip toe thru the typos - I have a cold and I'm too tired to proof read.

Methadras said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Is "Mexico" (i.e. "the government") actually "sending" anybody?

Yes. In a way. They are facilitating the movement of those undesireable Central Americans through Mexico and dumping them into the US.


You see, this is another thing that should be highlighted by Trump. How Mexico treats any illegals into their country namely from Guatemala, Nicaragua, et al. and either shoots them at the border or lets them go up to the US. No one brings this up on how utterly reprehensible Mexico is to illegals.

chickelit said...

I don't think it's edutcher's job to sell Trump -- that's Trump's job. I recognized a long time ago (as did many others) that Trump's appeal was crossover-voters. That would seem to include R&B but not April. Hillary seems to lack crossover appeal (except for die-hard Jebediahs). Rev. Cruz never had an ounce of it. Bernie had it to some extent (but notice how we never hear about Bernie in the MSM anymore).

The political evening is still young. Rejoice! Celebrate divisity!

Rhythm and Balls said...

I don't think it's edutcher's job to sell Trump

If he wants my vote, it is.

-- that's Trump's job.

Then go invite Trump to come over here and personally persuade me, the way educ however you spell his name does.

Follow the discussion.

Bernie had it to some extent (but notice how we never hear about Bernie in the MSM anymore).

That should tell you something. We didn't hear about him, period. They cut out mass rallies for the guy in order to show empty podiums that Trump was expected to speak at an hour later.

The MSM is in the tank for Trump. That should tell you something. They package it with salaciousness, but they package it. He's gotten an estimated $2 billion of free airtime advertising, just to come on and yap his mouth or whatever.

They make it lurid, they make it kooky. But they can't get enough of him. He is their beloved Addams Family candidate.

That's your MSM candidate. Maybe he will actually become an MSM politician.

chickelit said...

Last I heard, R&B is voting for Gary Johnson or Jill Stone. Ordinarily, he'd be for Hillary and so that hurts her which is fine by me. I haven't run into any R's swinging L or G yet but that's because I shut off contact with #nevertrumpers online. I imagine they're still a powerful block or imagine themselves to be.

chickelit said...

The MSM is in the tank for Trump. That should tell you something.

LOL

edutcher said...

Rhythm and Balls said...

I don't think it's edutcher's job to sell Trump

If he wants my vote, it is.


Your vote is what you want. All I try to do is separate the facts from the propaganda.

The MSM is in the tank for Trump.

Even April doesn't buy that one. But they can't resist a good story and Cacklepants with her GI Armani jackets just ain't it.

Rhythm and Balls said...

"The MSM is in the tank for Trump. That should tell you something."

LOL


You don't understand neurotypicals very well. They will suck up to power or its perception more than you can possibly imagine.

ndspinelli said...

I bet Trump Steak doesn't sell arrachera. I got into that wonderful meat years back. However, it was cheap but now so trendy it's as pricey as rib eye.

chickelit said...

You don't understand neurotypicals very well. They will suck up to power or its perception more than you can possibly imagine.

They oversold what they overheard. Who is the guy on the right badly in need of a shave?

You're wearing out my patience giving me weak examples, R%B.

Rhythm and Balls said...

You're wearing out my patience giving me weak examples, R%B.

I really don't care what you think, if you want the truth. What's your batting average on political predictions?

For crying out loud, you understand humans so poorly that you even oppose basic principles of human toxicology.

Who is the guy on the right badly in need of a shave?

Someone who apparently cares more about substantive discussion than about irrelevant/outdated personal appearance preferences - unlike you, it would seem.

Trooper York said...

The guy with the beard is Julius Rosenberg. Or maybe Alger Hiss. Or possibly even Kim Philby.

It doesn't matter who he is. It matters what he is.

chickelit said...

What's your batting average on political predictions?

I'm predicting that Hillary wins in 2016. But I was wrong about Romney in 2012, wrong about McCain in 2008, right about Bush II once, right about Clinton I, wrong about Reagan. So, my record is not so good.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Aaaaand No response from Ritmo to my facts about the Mexican government's, if not direct involvement in illegal immigration, but to the tacit encouragement and abetting of the funneling of the undesirables from Central America and other countries of the world.

Also to the Huuuuuge financial benefit they get from encouraging and continuing the flood of illegal Mexican aliens across our border who funnel money upstream.

Like Sgt Schultz....the Mexican government is all ....I see nothingk ...nothingK!

Trooper York said...

Oh wait. I was referring to my post further up the page. My bad. I don't know who the mo with the beard is.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Ok, well. Not so good.

Anyway, this is getting boring. Here's Steven Crowder painting Mohammed as Bob Ross.

Rhythm and Balls said...

It doesn't matter who he is. It matters what he is.

A carbon-based lifeform?

Oh. A well-compensated, influential, decent-looking carbon-based lifeform.

chickelit said...

I will never vote for Clinton II. I announced at Thanksgiving dinner last year that I would crawl over broken glass to vote against her. But, I think her pull is very strong for the status quo. And there is the rice bowl issue that spinelli sneers at, but which I think is important. Even George Will will defend his vote for Hillary based on "honor" but in the end it's about George's rice bowl.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Aaaaand No response from Ritmo to my facts about the Mexican government's, if not direct involvement in illegal immigration, but to the tacit encouragement and abetting of the funneling of the undesirables from Central America and other countries of the world.

Also to the Huuuuuge financial benefit they get from encouraging and continuing the flood of illegal Mexican aliens across our border who funnel money upstream.

Like Sgt Schultz....the Mexican government is all ....I see nothingk ...nothingK!


Why is a response necessary? I think it's possible that someone can make a roundabout connection between Mexican government encouragement and Spanish flight, as tenuous and generally inconsequential as it is. I didn't necessarily disagree with you... Did you need me to respond as if in a deposition? Either way, it doesn't negate the obvious fact that they overwhelmingly come here, as anyone would, for vastly better opportunities. Not because of a conspiracy. Or for militating. But Trump likes that language because it rallies.

But what do I know... or care? As I said, this is your fight. The U.S. government will do whatever it does with immigration, tightening it, loosening it, setting quotas, whatever. I might not stand in your way (at least if it comes down to keeping us from becoming like Europe) but it's hardly my #1 issue. I'm not even sure if it's my #267th issue. It's an issue for you and people who agree with you, as well as for your single-issue presidential candidate. It really seems to be the only issue he's studied or been interested in enough to actually be consistent with it, so god bless.

That said, feel free to bring up anything else about this bizarre election with me that you want.

Dust Bunny Queen said...


Why is a response necessary?

Because you asked me a question. I answered it. Think of it like a tennis match.

Unless you have nothing more to say, have no rejoinder or feel that you can't respond....then just say that. No one will give you a bad time about being honest.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I will never vote for Clinton II. I announced at Thanksgiving dinner last year that I would crawl over broken glass to vote against her. But, I think her pull is very strong for the status quo.

She's supported by Wall Street.

Hell, she's supported by the Kochs.

Hence, she will probably win.

Bernie was the only one this year who was right on not only that, but at least had the more defensible mindset on everything else.

I didn't agree with him and would have been fine if he'd got less than 50% of what he wanted, either on an issue-by-issue basis or in scope.

But he had the right idea and the right attitude. If nothing else, I think Wall Street and lobbyist influence is at the core of our problems. Everything else is secondary. And he was the one that made that issue priority #1. That, and breaking the Clinton machine.

Hell, even all you nativists realize that immigration is a corporate issue, right? It's the fucking corporations that want to make sure that cheap labor gets here, they lobby the Congress and POTUS to make sure we will have as much Mexican immigration as possible, and that's that.

So hate these meager Mexicans or their government all you want. At the end of the day, it's the money, the lobbyists, Wall Street, the corporations, that are doing this - as well as just about every other harm.

And you know it.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Unless you have nothing more to say, have no rejoinder or feel that you can't respond....then just say that. No one will give you a bad time about being honest.

I just gave you a response. I think there were just as many challenges in it for you.

I don't think you'll respond to those, though. You have more important emotions motivating you in this election.

Think of it like a tennis match.

I don't think competitiveness is always necessary. A congenial conversation is an equally nice aim, and requiring clarification of agreement vs. disagreement sometimes detracts. Occasionally it's good to have an open mind on things.

Actually, often it's good to have an open mind on things.

Learning is good.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Actually, re: corporations, I think you could even make the case that they're the ones who screwed over the college kids.

At root, no one makes the Mike Rowe connection to the college bubble. Since we've decimated the trades and outsourced manufacturing (another corporate giveaway), high school grads are told that the only living they can make should require a college education.

Screw the trades, screw manufacturing. Send 'em all to college and over-educate every last one of 'em. No matter how uneducable the vast majority of them may be.

Let the universities and professors make a killing off this bubble... the bubble that never ends - since people will never decrease their never-ending supply of kids who somehow feel that they're that much more entitled to fill their empty brains with the things that their hands won't touch.

I read in the Hillary Times (NYT) today an interesting story about the Law School glut. Law schools are decreasing class sizes by something like 30 to 40%. Grads can't get jobs. Profs are getting fired. Class sizes and faculties are shrinking.

Serves the fuckers right. Who make up the incompetent political class in this country? The lawyers. They're as bad as the corporations.

Maybe someday they'll learn. Once they're on the receiving line of welfare check.

Then, maybe they'll think about what they've done and how they've sold us out.

AprilApple said...

@ Chickl

I'm predicting that Hillary wins in 2016. But I was wrong about Romney in 2012, wrong about McCain in 2008, right about Bush II once, right about Clinton I, wrong about Reagan. So, my record is not so good.

I knew McCian would lose. I thought Romney had a chance. Obamacare war really unpopular and the polls were close. I think Romney might be the last time we come that close until the GOP figures out that 1) we need to fight hard...(Romney in the 1st debate) 2) not with a con man.

After 8 years of Obama, and Hillary is a crook - we should win. Sadly, because Donny is a con man, we won't. I predict Hillary will win like her husband did. With less than 50%.

AprilApple said...

The best part about the Clintons taking over again - her lawlessness will be untouchable. She will take Obama's lawlessness and bad policies and turn them into a permanent corrupt structure that cannot be removed. Plus - her awesome voice screeching at us for 4-8. (what her prison term should be)

chickelit said...

All I am saying is "Give Trump A Chance"

AprilApple said...

Why? He's in this to hand it to her. What's the point? I'm voting for him, but the idea that one little vote in CO matters that much is delusional.
Trump doesn't need to win me over, (nor does he need me to win) he needs to convince me, and others, that he really wants to win. I don't see it.

esp with his latest idea: "win or lose - Trump media"

win or lose? His downward trajectory for her is starting..... now.

chickelit said...

AprilApple said...Why? He's in this to hand it to her. What's the point? I'm voting for him, but the idea that one little vote in CO matters that much is delusional.

Trump needs to hold a rally in CO. Too bad there are zero Trump voters there as proven by its Republican primary.

I guess there was that one delegate who drove down from Weld County.

chickelit said...

Coloradoans can be a spiteful bunch. I lived there off and on for several years.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Trump doesn't need to win me over, (nor does he need me to win) he needs to convince me, and others, that he really wants to win. I don't see it.

This is the hardest thing for me to understand, and it happens all the time. It happens with Hillary's crew also, but they're protected by having the media and Democratic and corporate establishment already in the tank for them by decades.

But anyone who trolls for single votes to persuade online is just demonstrating how brittle the campaign is. Especially when they don't throw out an objective, concrete specific issue and just start in with the threatening tones... "If YOU don't vote for XXX, then blah blah blah.... These are people not very skilled in the art of persuasion, giving lie to the illusion that Trump somehow is. Trump is basically persuading one group of one thing: I'll throw out the Mexicans. Everything else is up for grabs. Sorry, but that is not most Americans' top #1 priority. At most it grabs 20% of the electorate.

Ditto with Hillary's corruption. She's widely disliked, but still only seen as a presidentially unworthy criminal by maybe 50% at most (even if it does reach beyond just Republicans) - but still not enough to deny her a win, especially with all the corruption on her side. The rest tune out it out (figure in a built-in stupidity/fingers-in-ear contingent) or blur it with all the other right-wing and left-wing attacks that never stuck or convicted.

What is persuasive is Bill's loss of his law license. How many people remember to keep that one in mind? You'd think a lawyer has to be pretty greasy to be excommunicated by his own.

But point being that you're not going to bully or browbeat people into pulling the lever, and it sure won't be effective on a one-on-one basis, anyway. But the Trumpkins and Hillaryites sure like to try this. The Hillaryites are especially dumb. All I hear from them is, "We won! Fuck you!" So have some hope, as this is the best way to turn off the 46% of her party that rejected her from having anything to do with her or with them. Nevermind how stupid it shows they are at differentiating between success in a primary and success in the general.

ndspinelli said...

You can make nasty comments about Coloradans, but if someone says something about Wisconsin you have a hissy fit. Classic guy who can dish it out and not take it. Rice bowls.

AprilApple said...

"What is persuasive is Bill's loss of his law license. How many people remember to keep that one in mind? You'd think a lawyer has to be pretty greasy to be excommunicated by his own. "

No doubt. Hillary and Bill's decades of baggage and corruption and sleaze would sink anyone else.

This is why I'd do anything to stop it. The fix is in.

AprilApple said...

CO is a weird place politically. I'll grant you that. We are far more independent in our thinking than say - CA or NY or Taxachusetts. Most of our leftwing leanings come from all the idiots who move here from CA.

AprilApple said...

Trump needs to hold a rally in CO. Too bad there are zero Trump voters there as proven by its Republican primary.

I guess there was that one delegate who drove down from Weld County.


Steve House is the R leader here in CO and he was the idiot who chose to close off the already archaic and closed-off process by caucus. Steve caught a lot of shit. He did end up casting his delegate vote for Trump.

Also, CO is now going to move to a primary system.

Also - as a reminder - Trump blew off CO and then used it to bash us. Not a good move in the long run.

ndspinelli said...

April, I travel a lot. I agree w/ your assessment of Colorado. They are @ the higher end of free thinkers.

ndspinelli said...

If you were to evict EITHER the Bay area or LA, Cali would be center right. Of course, you can say that about many states w/ Dem Machine big cities. The Republican guv of Illinois won EVERY county but Cook. EVERY county but Cook!! And, he barely won.