"
The hook-up culture denounced by conservatives is the very same rape culture denounced by feminists. Who wants it? Most college women do not; they ignore hookups and lament the loss of dating. Many men will not turn down the offer of an available woman, but what they really want is a girlfriend. The predatory males are a small minority among men who are the main beneficiaries of the feminist norm. It’s not the fault of men that women want to join them in excess rather than calm them down, for men too are victims of the rape culture. Nor is it the fault of women. Women are so far from wanting hook-ups that they must drink themselves into drunken consent—in order to overcome their natural modesty, one might suggest. Not having a sociable drink but getting blind drunk is today’s preliminary to sex. Beautifully romantic, isn’t it? The anonymous Harvard woman by getting drunk was unfortunately helping to pressure herself into consenting to a very bad experience. But she is right that the pressure comes with the encouragement of the culture. And the culture comes from the dogmas of feminism that made this mess for women and men too." (
read the whole thing)
College "rape culture" is a big topic of internet 'conversation' these days.
I didn't go to college, and I don't say that with pride or anything even resembling that. I'm saying I didn't go college, concomitant this post, to say I don't have a hard and fast opinion, one way or the other.
I say both sides have an equally valid and fair agenda. Everybody is right and nobody is wrong ;)
57 comments:
There is something very wrong with the culture at many colleges. Universities should be a place to learn and work hard. Parents who send their kids to 'party universities' are morons. Between the party hard attitude and the semi-pro sports team many of these places run they have made a complete mockery of their actual purpose. It is a fucking disgrace.
There is a reason US human capital lags behind other OECD countries.
It looks like the George Will Damage Control Machine is being deployed to full effect. Not that it will matter. Nutlessness is not in the cards. They're simply are anti-violative behavior. People don't have to neuter themselves into asexual eunuchs and spayed cats to resist rape. Just don't tell that to George Will & Co.
People drink to overcome any manner of ridiculous or Puritan social taboo. Not because they don't want to, and not because they don't want to do any of the things they'd do drunk, but because few are brave enough to do so sober. So chalk up modern U.S. conservatism to being anti-courage, pro-temperance sexless, and conformist. Sounds like a winning combination. Yippee.
Give her all the equality she demands until she screams for mercy.
The feminuts demanded their right to orgasm and all the other rights that women survived without for a million years or so.
They don't like how it's turned out?
Let 'em shack up with Ritmo.
There is something very wrong with the culture at many colleges. Universities should be a place to learn and work hard.
They've become Lefty hothouses.
The Law of Unintended Consequences is really a pain.
Rhythm and Balls said...
People drink to overcome any manner of ridiculous or Puritan social taboo. Not because they don't want to, and not because they don't want to do any of the things they'd do drunk, but because few are brave enough to do so sober.
Really? And here I thought booze was a big problem in Commie paradises like Russia.
So chalk up modern U.S. conservatism to being anti-courage, pro-temperance sexless, and conformist. Sounds like a winning combination. Yippee.
Bell&Howell, you have a call on line 1.
More "but I thought"s and references to old-timey restoration Americana hour by none other than eduardo.
How about a "but I thought" of my own? Because, last I'd heard, Putin had become an icon of American conservatives, revered for his strong-arm strength, anti-gay, pro-church, pro-imperial ability to get Syria to agree to our interest of they're being rid of chemical weapons.
And they still drink quite heavily. That wasn't a Soviet thing, eduardo.
Maybe your next employer can offer to pay for the college courses that would have taught you all that.
The feminuts demanded their right to orgasm and all the other rights that women survived without for a million years or so.
This is actually, quite hilarious. Is ed:
1. Anti-female orgasm?
2. Of the belief that women (hundreds of thousands of years ago - not "millions", that's ed's ignorance of non-creationist timelines) did not evolve a capability to experience orgasm?
Does he believe that female orgasms were created in Frankenstein-type labs with electrical bolts and such?
Ed, you're a strange guy. I'd tell you it wouldn't kill you to learn a thing or two every now and then, but I'm increasingly unsure if that's really the case. Maybe learning something would actually make you croak.
George Will is right and he will outlast the censors.
Putin isn't an "icon of American conservatives," Ritmo.
You just made that up because it amused you.
You sex analysis of America was a classic bit of sophomore gibberish, Ritmo.
You ever graduating to junior year?
Hey Shouting Thomas!
I know you are but what am I?
How did you enjoy arguing with yourself for several hours on a thread last night, Ritmo?
You should have invented a second avatar to respond.
Lol. Editors are censors. They only sell the fucking pulp that bow tie-man parasitically travels on, dumb-douche. If Will's writings are so popular on they're own, he can pull a Sullivan, open up his own shop, free of any editorial concerns, perhaps even see if people would be willing to pay him for them, and let that experiment play out.
But like most conservative financial wiz-bangs, he prefers requiring (while getting his minions to bash) parasitizing off of a bigger business "partner". One hand hits what the mouth chomps on. No, Scaramouche, we really can't see what you're doing!
Will sells a ton of books on politics and on baseball.
The Post needs him, not vice-versa.
There is a world of difference between religious fundamentalist conservatives, which it seems are what Ritmo is referencing, and conservatives in the small government, adhere to the Constitution, fiscal responsible brand of Conservative thought. The latter group, which I tend to affiliate with, could really not care less about the morality issues.
It isn't as if young people haven't been having sex and drinking and doing drugs for many many generations....like...for always. It is now that there are unrealistic expectations and a fantasy land of how human nature works.
After you are 18 years old...you are not a kid. You are not a child. You are an adult. If your parents didn't instill common sense, self preservation, manners, morals and all sorts of other things that human beings over the eons have absorbed from their tribe and family by the age of 10 years old....then it is too late for these retarded (not in a mental sense but in an undeveloped sense) adult children.
The problem is that we have created a Lord of the Flies type of childhood for many children with helicopter parents who focus on all of the wrong issues. Thus we have retarded adults in college who have no personal values, self worth; who are part of a herd mentality and subject to peer pressure.
People don't have to neuter themselves into asexual eunuchs and spayed cats to resist rape.
Of course not. That has never been a condition of life to avoid rape. Just like getting mugged or putting yourself in physical danger by being an airheaded nitwit, people (women and men) just need to have some freaking common sense and be willing to take responsibility for their poor choices in life. The world doesn't exist to sooth your little fragile egos and it doesn't exist to allow you to refuse to take responsibility for yourselves and put the blame onto everyone else when YOU fuck up.
So does rape occur? Yep. Is it as frequent as the feminazis want to claim? Hardly. When you expand the definition of something like rape to include almost all normal human activities as well as rape, you have made your entire cause ridiculous.
In the world of the mathematically inept (i.e. Shouting Thomas), 25 minutes magically becomes "several hours".
You know, because his emotions confuse him. He went to the school of happy math! Tommy get angry Tommy can't do math! It's your fault, other kid! (Tommy shoves the nearest person in his way).
If the Post were to stop subscribing to Will's franchise, which is what the paper is actually doing, the loss would be entirely theirs.
The PR will double the sales of Will's books and confer even greater prominence on his franchise.
Actually, I could care less which would put me into a minus zero caring on the give a shit scale of what other people do.
As long as it doesn't affect me or mine or come out of my pocket book, people should be free to do whatever. Including hook up culture. Just don't come whining about the consequences of your actions or lack of actions.
The "rape culture" thing is laughably dumb.
Hard to believe Ritmo wants to embrace this garbage.
"People don't have to neuter themselves into asexual eunuchs and spayed cats to resist rape."
Of course not.
Try convincing that of the conservative hangers-on, who equate whatever they deem to be "too" promiscuous with sexual violation. That's exactly what Will's defender in the quoted post is still trying to do.
I hate to break it to you, DBQ, but a long of non-evangelical conservatives still long to promote themselves and their "ideas" as "socially conservative". Hence, promiscuity = invitation to rape.
They don't state it as bluntly as they used to, because frankly that's now beyond the pale. But in their minds they still obviously can't let go of the association, and hence the fixating association on college freedom and rape.
Well, maybe that's the larger picture here. I remember when Baghdad was looted and Rumsfeld told us "That's what free people do!"
The 4:40 bit was a classic of Ritmo projection.
Vague, unnamed people who are representative of "conservatives" are doing bad things.
These conversations in Ritmo's head can get pretty complicated.
Hard to believe Ritmo wants to embrace this garbage.
Nothing like hearing a dumb asshole who doesn't even know what he believes telling me what I believe.
I don't even know what "rape culture" means, let alone pretend to "embrace" it.
Try for better word choices, Old Yeller.
Or else go get that rabies shot you've been long avoiding.
Yep, here comes the classic Thomas diarrhea. He'll let out a lump with every other post.
Good thing I've got better things to do this evening.
Ritmo, you have that familiar liberal paranoia that somebody is trying to stop you from getting laid.
You're having a problem here?
Those conservatives are making you keep your zipper up?
No, you don't have anything better to do, Ritmo.
You'll be here until 2 a.m. as usual.
The 4:40 bit was a classic of Ritmo projection.
I remember you using this sort of psycho-babble when studiously speculating on the Althouses' allegedly very strange sex life. Even when your priest advised you to shut up about it.
Oh well, that must be the reward of being an admitted asshole. Even the guy you deem to be your better tells you to shut-up, and you keep going on. It's in your sinful nature, Thomas, we get it. Which is also known more simply as you just being a stupid asshole.
So, who's are these "conservatives" who are getting in the way of you getting laid, Ritmo?
Let's have some specifics.
edutcher said...
There is something very wrong with the culture at many colleges. Universities should be a place to learn and work hard.
They've become Lefty hothouses.
Crap. Many of the worst offenders are southern universities, paid for by southern parents.
Nope. I might come back at 2 AM. But until then, it's just all you, Champ.
You, and your "advisor" and your psycho-babble.
It must beat going on about all the evidence you've uncovered on Larry and Annie's bizarre sexual rituals, and all that's been revealed only to you (apparently by special invitation - i.e. the voices in your head) but to no one else.
I always prefer it when you drop the phony "scholarship" bit, Ritmo, and just go for the throat out of sheer hatred.
It's so you.
promiscuity = invitation to rape
There is some truth in that. Promiscuity = invitation to STDs, unwanted pregnancies and sorts of other consequences. Just as walking down a dark street alone in a bad neighborhood = invitation to a mugging.
In the advertising world it is called bait and switch. Advertising your product as being one thing and then when the buyer decides to take you up on the offer the terms and conditions of the product suddenly switch.
Should we be able to walk down that dark alley with impunity? Should we be able to fuck as many men as we want with abandon with no consequences to body or reputation? Well....that would be nice, I suppose. But is isn't life. It isn't realistic.
You can be the town pump and never get raped because you have the common sense to avoid the occasional rapist and be aware of your surroundings. There are bad men who will harm you. Be aware. You can waltz down the dark alleyway. There are people who want to rob and hurt you. Be aware and be armed.
This is life. This is human nature. We aren't going to talk it away, legislate it away. Grown UP.
Ritmo, you have that familiar liberal paranoia that somebody is trying to stop you from getting laid.
ST has that familiar conservative paranoia that gays are trying to fuck him up the ass in the middle of a ten-man orgy.
He described it, in exquisite detail, to his favorite internet-priest.
Are you really getting furious, Ritmo, or is that an act, too?
I think he told the internet-priest about it because it shifted the focus off of him. (And his favorite emotion - guilt). As he told them about all he gleaned on Annie and Larry's cuckholding rituals.
He's the eyes and ears of the world, that Thomas.
I don't care, T. I just find stupid assholes like you annoying.
When you stop blurting another string of runny diarrhea posts, then you can speculate on what other people's supposed problems are - maybe even mine.
Until then, just chalk it up to me finding ignorant (and barely literate) cave-people like you to be an annoyance to sane conversation.
You haven't told me yet, Ritmo, just how you discovered that "conservatives" adore Putin.
I don't know whether to call these things you make up "goofy projections," or "just plain lies."
Which do you prefer?
At least you've got somebody to read your "projections" or "outright lies" tonight, Ritmo.
Must have been lonely last night arguing for two and a half hours with yourself.
You know how to plug in a fake avatar. It would be much more amusing if you would do the fake avatar and argue with yourself.
Again, he can't tell the difference between 25 mins. and "two and a half hours". Anyone else can look it up.
He's either senile or a liar. Or maybe both.
Enjoy yourself, T. And all the mail-order family you can buy.
The answer to solving the problem of the declining standards and atmosphere of colleges is to slowly phase out the student loan slush fund.
Fat chance that will happen.
Shouting Thomas said...
The answer to solving the problem of the declining standards and atmosphere of colleges is to slowly phase out the student loan slush fund.
Unrelated issues. Some colleges are well run places of learning, some are breeding grounds for fat drunks. They are all eligible for student loans.
Rhythm and Balls said...
The feminuts demanded their right to orgasm and all the other rights that women survived without for a million years or so.
This is actually, quite hilarious. Is ed:
1. Anti-female orgasm?
2. Of the belief that women (hundreds of thousands of years ago - not "millions", that's ed's ignorance of non-creationist timelines) did not evolve a capability to experience orgasm?
Does he believe that female orgasms were created in Frankenstein-type labs with electrical bolts and such?
Ed, you're a strange guy. I'd tell you it wouldn't kill you to learn a thing or two every now and then, but I'm increasingly unsure if that's really the case. Maybe learning something would actually make you croak.
So many straw men, so little time.
I said nothing about any approval or lack of same for feamle orgasm, only the feminuts' sudden demand around 1970 that they had a right to them.
If Ritmo actually knew any women, he'd have learned they come by them quite naturally, no feminuts needed.
As for learning, obviously I've learned more than Ritmo since I don't need to resort to his flimsy rhetorical tricks to make a point.
HeWhoseNomDeNetMustNotBeMocked said...
They've become Lefty hothouses.
Crap. Many of the worst offenders are southern universities, paid for by southern parents.
No northerners go to southern universities?
No northerners teach at southern universities?
Mike Adams and a lot of people in Austin will be shocked.
ARM, Annie's employer, UW, is the latter. "Do you want to go through your life fat, drunk and stupid?" Dean Wormer Animal House
Unrelated issues
Maybe yes...maybe no. If college were not perceived as being free, with deferred payments, perhaps those who were attending would be more serious about actually learning and focusing on their studies. (we know it isn't free but that is the perception)
When you are young, things like money, credit, deferred loans, compound interest are all difficult for most to grasp. So even though they know that there are loans and costs the reality is in the perceived distant future or cushioned by 'free' money.
If college were to cost less because all the infusion of money which inflates the costs and the costs were actually borne by the students and their parents in "real time" we would likely see a more serious grouping of students. I say this as a student who worked her way through college with a full time job and a full course load. I took it seriously because it was hard work.
OF course there will still be the partying etc. I did my share :-) Students are human beings with all the raging hormones of youth. Life. Can't change it.
PS Things must really be bad around the Net if all the trolls need a subject like this to come out from hiding.
I just got an official email from the university... Are you having trouble paying for school, does tuition cost too much? Personal Student Loans are here to help! We'll walk you through the super simple process of getting one of these loans and all your money worries will be over!
Makes the skin CRAWL.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
Life. Can't change it.
There is a difference between changing it and actively encouraging it. It is truly inconceivable to me that parents will send their kids to a 'party college'. Obviously there is a balance. A professor at CalTech once told me that their program was a form of child abuse and having employed one shell-shocked dropout from the program I can believe this. Nonetheless, the overall balance has drifted way to far towards entertainment. The school administrators do this knowingly because they believe that if the students have 'fun' at college they will be more likely to come back as alumni and contribute to the endowment. The government should cap endowments at some ridiculously low figure and see how much administrators care about 'fun' then. I predict that they would become fully focused on moving widgets through the system to maximize revenues, fuck fun.
So.. is Ritmo still insisting that a culture that celebrates promiscuity, Free Love, and casual sex (not even as restricted as premarital sex, which assumes marriage is in view) in all parts and permutations of popular entertainment and culture is shaming young women so that they need to get stone drunk before getting up the nerve... not to *conform* to popular culture, but to get up the nerve to *defy* the oppression of their sexuality and do what they really really actually want to do? (With a total stranger, who is a jerk, and...)
Being sexually active is expected with your boyfriend or girlfriend and you're far more likely to run into social trouble for saying no than you ever will for saying yes and it's STILL all because girls, who would naturally bang anything and everything, have to drink to get up the nerve to defy prudish convention?
The 70's are calling. They want their talking points back.
There is a difference between changing it and actively encouraging it. It is truly inconceivable to me that parents will send their kids to a 'party college'.
I agree with this. The reputation of the school AND the surrounding town/area should be well investigated by the parents, who are likely to be footing a great deal of the costs. If the student wants to go to a "party" school there should be a very very good reason and there should be accountability. Grades slip? Taking idiot courses? Not attending to work? Not keeping in touch with family? All those would be cause to remove my support $$$ from my student. Take it serious or you are on you own!
Fortunately, my daughter decided(and I agreed)on a reputable private college. Not a "TOP" elite rated one, but in the top 5% nationally (as rated by Forbes) The percentage of students who get a degree in 4 years( not 6 or 8) was a very big deal for me and it was very high as well for those who go on to get graduate degrees. Although not a religious school now, at one time it was and still retained the staid somewhat stuffy atmosphere. Had a good overseas program (she got to go to Salzburg for a semester) and stressed community service of some kind as part of the required curriculum. (She worked at the YWCA and with 4H kids) The surrounding areas, town, commercial areas were distinctly upper residential and family friendly with lots of young families.
Not a party school atmosphere. But...I'm pretty sure she did her share of partying.
Thanks to - "own your sexuality" feminists - we have Miley Cirus.
The sexual double standard is nothing new under the sun and has nothing to do with the political divide.
Men want to spread their seed. Girls want attention - but not too much. Both sexes, at age teen-whatever, are incapable of making rational intelligent long term decisions. Nothing. New.
I may not know how to do it, but, somehow, is as though the "rape culture" phenomena is also tied to the unhappiness of the married Hollywood actresses we been hearing about.
The house of cards that is radical feminism is crumbling.
As usual with victors, in this case radical feminism, they overreached. Thoroughly undermining the precariously delicate social arrangement that is the norms of understanding between the sexes.
I think that one of the issues in this "rape culture" bull is that the definition of rape has become so nebulous to include things that are distinctly NOT rape so as to become laughable.
Blurring the lines...even erasing the lines between normal sexual encounters and calling it "rape" only serves to confuse people and make the cause of the radical feminists something un-serious.
I can't imagine the minefield that young men have to be tripping through just to try to get a normal relationship with a woman. Frankly....were I a young man today....I would just find a prostitute and pay for it. It would be cheaper and less risky.
It also seems as though Gay Activist are making some of the same mistakes in a more personal way.
A take no prisoners approach.
It may have for them unforeseen consequences down the line.
mild OT: Speaking of moral decay - and who is to blame... Hollywood actor Gary Oldman cuts thru the crap.
The unleash is refreshing.
Re helicopter parenting:
I know a wealthy couple and they raised 2 boys. They spoiled their children and gave them every little thing. Not just htings- the mother smothered them with play-time attention. Never any chores or responsibility. Dad worked all the time,
They taught their own children to manipulate them. Now the 18 and 22 year old are a total mess. All they want is money from their parents. If the money stops flowing - they bad-mouth mom. The level of disrespect is powerful. All theses kids want is to feel good. Sex, drugs, escapism, phony boo hoo when life isn't perfect. Oh mommy will you buy me a dog or an iguana. (yes and iguana) the iguana is dead now. The dog needs to live with a friend.
They are a mess. The parents created monsters. And the parents are unable to stop the madness because they allow themselves to be manipulated.
As usual with victors, in this case radical feminism, they overreached. Thoroughly undermining the precariously delicate social arrangement that is the norms of understanding between the sexes.
Even Betty Friedan saw this, and wrote about it in a later book of hers that was roundly condemned by radical feminists.
Ritmo said:
"As he told them about all he gleaned on Annie and Larry's cuckholding rituals."
Well, it's always best to glean your cuck before you let someone else hold it. It's just good manners.
Let's give A and L credit. They're clean people.
So.. is Ritmo still insisting that a culture that celebrates promiscuity, Free Love, and casual sex (not even as restricted as premarital sex, which assumes marriage is in view) in all parts and permutations of popular entertainment and culture is shaming young women so that they need to get stone drunk before getting up the nerve... not to *conform* to popular culture, but to get up the nerve to *defy* the oppression of their sexuality and do what they really really actually want to do? (With a total stranger, who is a jerk, and…)
You really don't get it. The problem with America isn't that it "celebrates" promiscuity etc., etc., yada yada. It's actually a very sexually schizophrenic place. As part of the Puritan heritage a heavy sense of social moralizing is made to accompany sex. So on one hand it tries to place undue moral weight on sexual behavior and/or sexuality (not always a bad thing every now and then) when what it should be doing is just accepting that sex is a natural part of life. It can be and often is naturally associated with strong emotions, but that's on individuals and their partners to figure out - not on a bunch of others or "society" to judge the value of. Sure, some things are bad ideas or unsafe or maybe even "bad taste" (which is the eye of the beholder), but natural displays or expressions or depictions of sexuality shouldn't bother us - which they obviously do, or else the MPAA wouldn't issue warnings equating sexual depictions in cinema as potentially "damaging" to us as graphic violence in the trailers to their movies.
The result is the sort of weird Miley Cyrus and Madonna displays that are de rigeur in the U.S. When you're subjected to a famine of expression, those with less hang-ups will take advantage of that by providing a visual feast. Or rather, an all-you-can-eat breakfast buffet.
No one can take advantage of demand unless supply is lower than need be. And obviously Americans have a huge hunger, (as in a multi-hundred-million-dollar hunger), for what Madonna and Miley entice people's imaginations with, that others aren't providing.
Post a Comment