'At my age I don't have much to lose'
Pope Francis has announced he will no longer used a bullet-proof Popemobile as the glass 'sardine can' keeps him away from the people.
The armoured vehicles were introduced after the 1981 assassination attempt of Pope John Paul II in a bid to prevent further attacks on the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
During the interview with a Spanish newspaper which was reported by Vatican Radio, Pope Francis said: 'It is true that anything could happen, but let's face it, at my age I don't have much to lose.'
When asked about his legacy, Pope Francis said: 'I have not thought about this. But I like it when you recall someone and say "he was a good guy, he did what he could, and he was not that bad." With that, I would be content.'
79 comments:
Don't know if I'd take the risk, considering the hatred of the gay activist crowd for the Church.
They blame the Church for making them feel guilty about sex... a very explosive thing.
But, good for him, and he's right... he doesn't have that much time left anyway.
At my age I would accept "he wasn't all that bad a guy" for an epitaph.
Compared to what they could say.
He said he might even retire, like Benedict.
It would be hard not to respect the personal integrity and bravery of the current Pope. Let's hope it doesn't get him killed.
He's dead.
It's his best JFK impersonation.
'"Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you.""
I was in Israel when the Pope visited. His refusal to use armored vehicles caused risk to the Israelis.
As a Jewish citizen told me: "If someone kills the Pope here, they'll say "The Jews killed another one!"
It caused the military to have to line the streets and barricade them to secure his passage.
So he got an armored response, just a more logistically difficult one. I don't think he has thought through that he cannot relieve other people of the duty to his safety just because he refuses the Popemobile.
In the end, not wise, a little selfish, and unnecessarily costly for others. Not unlike his economic views, actually.
How do we know he's not wearing kevlar long johns?
"In the end, not wise, a little selfish, and unnecessarily costly for others. Not unlike his economic views, actually."
Sort of like Jesus?
It isn't the Church that's making you feel like guilty school kids, Larry.
The guilt comes from within.
You and you wife are morons about this shit.
Jesus didn't come to save Christians, ST.
"People who reject the teachings of Christ aren't Christians. "
Tell that to Pogo.
How do we know he's not wearing kevlar long johns?
Because Armani is Italian... and as we all know the Vatican is in Italy. besides, Kevlar is worn by warmongers.
but let's face it, at my age I don't have much to lose.
I can't believe that this man is so short sighted and self centered as to say that.
Yes. At his age, as an individual person who has had some time to face his own mortality, death is something that is not so frightening or scary. In some cases it is even a welcome event.
BUT!!!!! The Pope isn't just any old man. He is a symbol of the Catholic Church. A world wide renowned and revered symbol. Not a mere man. As such the assignation of the figurehead, symbol of the Church, direct representation of the faith would have such huge repercussions across the entire world. If the assassination or murder of the Pope were attributed to Muslims or Gays, it would unleash a religious world war that could morph into WWIII or a pogrom upon the homosexual community. We are already teetering on that edge.
Clue to the Pope.....it isn't about YOU.
I think I just won the 'Master of their Domain' bet:
"Shouting Thomas said...
Meade, you aren't Christian. So shut up with that shit."
For God's sake, can we please have a discussion that stays on topic and stop with all the juvenile back and forth insulting. This could be a good thread with some in depth conversations and debating on some serious issues.
IGNORE the angry bird. Please. He only exists to disrupt.
"IGNORE the angry bird. Please. He only exists to disrupt."
Also: don't draw Muḥammad or we'll have to kill you.
"Because Armani is Italian... and as we all know the Vatican is in Italy. besides, Kevlar is worn by warmongers."
Ground control, this is Major Meade. We have located levity. Repeat, we have a visual on Lem's levity. Over.
"Clue to the Pope.....it isn't about YOU."
Exactly.
I was shocked he seemd to be clueless about this. He still thinks he can get on a public bus like he did in Argentina.
Jesus was targeted, but he was able to decide when they would take him.
The Pope cannot. His death could get other people killed. Maybe even start a war.
Foolish.
Jesus got other people killed. Even started wars.
"Jesus was targeted, but he was able to decide when they would take him."
Suicide by Roman?
Somebody is summoning father Fox.
Anything further, father?
I felt bad for the Israelis. They were genuinely afraid for the Pope.
While he need not hide in a cave, being foolish isn't the same as being brave .
And he has to face facts, he is not one of the common men anymore.
Even the Dalai Lama gets that. He has struck a balance that works, being able to meet people, but allowing sufficient security.
I was shocked he seemed to be clueless about this. He still thinks he can get on a public bus like he did in Argentina.
It does have to be a big change, losing your freedom, mobility and becoming a figurehead. Losing your ability to be 'normal'.
The Presidents of the US have had to face this. Some took it with grace and (probably reluctant) acceptance. Others not so much. In reading an article about the Clintons it seems that Bill Clinton put his staff and himself at excessive risk because he didn't want to give up his freedom to jog/run where he wanted. Understandable to chafe under the restrictions, but selfish in putting not only himself in danger but mostly putting every one else in danger too.
The Pope must understand his importance not as a man but as a figurehead. If he doesn't, we are ALL in danger.
The Pope is living his faith, Pogo. More catholics should give it a try, don't you think?
ST, Breaaathe. We have all been doing superbly, and you have been a superstar in staying focused. Just put this behind you and avoid Satan. I'm like yourself in this, it can be REAL HARD. But it is the only solution. If you read threads you can see it works. Thanks, my man!
Pogo, You have also been a stalwart, keep up the great work.
I thought the comment "at my age I don't have much to loose" was, if only indirectly, a little dismissive of a people who are living longer and longer.
A people who make up the bulk of the church.
I'm just saying. I mean look at Trooper. He's taking care of himself, dieting and all that.
Trooper is not saying 'at my age I don't have much to loose'.
Am I out of line?
I was called in to work. Sorry if I'm not around to contribute more. I'll check in via the phone now and again. thanks and tits? titus!
The Pope and the Pauper, by Mark Twain.
To be more like the Pope, I will go high-speed boating without a life jacket.
At my age I don't have much to lose.
Then parachuting without a parachute.
At my age I don't have much to lose.
Oops.
"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
"I'll check in via the phone now and again. thanks and tits? titus! "
Levity is on the move. Repeat: levity is leaving present location, moving north. Over.
I am losing height, so at my age I don't have much Toulouse-Lautrec.
Ba dum bum.
“If someone is gay and is looking for the Lord, who am I to judge him?”
AReasonableMan said…
I think I just won the 'Master of their Domain' bet
Who took the other side, and at what odds?
ARM, The contest continues. If you remember, Kramer was the first person out.
"Before I was Pope, I used to drive without a seatbelt going 20 mph to church on Sunday.
Now I will stand on the roof speeding down the Autobahn.
At my age I don't have much to lose."
Yes, it's irresponsible because of the dangers to those who must work harder to protect him. Just as important, he is such an inspiration to everyone.
BUT if everything is in God's hands...
"And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
I understand what he thinks he's doing.
He doesn't seem to grasp what this costs everyone else.
Like his economics.
Gutsy guy.
Then again, it's why the British Army got away with wearing red coats for 200 years.
Great point about the Dalai Lama, Pogo. Balance.
This Pope sure is quirky.
I'm not Catholic, but my sister is, and one of the things I've learned from her is that very often the Pope's comments are taken out of context and when read in the context of his whole message, are quite different than how the media interprets them.
I hope this is one of those times.
BUT if everything is in God's hands...
Not everything is in God's hands. We have been given free will and the ability to chose. This is also one of the main differences between Catholicism and "strict" Protestantism which stresses pre-destination or pre-determinism.
"Catholic teaching on free will recognizes that God has given men and women the capacity to choose good or evil in their lives. The bishops at the Second Vatican Council declared that the human person, endowed with freedom, is “an outstanding manifestation of the divine image.” (Gaudium et Spes, No. 17) As the parable of the Grand Inquisitor in Dostoevsky’s novel, The Brothers Karamazov, makes so beautifully clear, God did not want humanity to be mere automatons, but to have the dignity of freedom, even recognizing that with that freedom comes the cost of many evil choices."
So. Yes. The Pope can choose to expose himself to danger. He can choose the level of danger. He has that freedom, but he also needs to recognize that his choices affect more than just himself.
This free will concept is also one that is difficult for those who are gay/homosexual advocates to grasp. A person may be born homosexual or gay (if you insist on that term). Just as a person may be heterosexual, born with murderous or sociopathic tendencies or any other impulses. However, we are given the free will to act or not act on those impulses. We can chose to not be sexually active, chose not to kill, chose not to break laws. This is what is meant by love the sinner, detest the sin.
No one experiencing temptation should say, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one. Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire." James 1:13-15"
@ Darcy
Good point. Not only taken out of context but interpreted by people who have no foundation in the ideas and precepts of The Church. Yes. Let us hope.
ndspinelli said...
ARM, The contest continues. If you remember, Kramer was the first person out.
I understand, but I had a specific prediction on who would be Kramer. For the rest of us the struggle continues.
Many years ago someone told me that priests are allowed to whack off, unlike other Catholics.
I had no reason to doubt that, but I was kind of curious to know how someone comes to learn such things.
I should think that it just sort of works out that the Pope is always old enough that it's never really much of an issue.
If you rub it just a little bit does that count? Just wanna know the rules.
This is just one of the many things that I think this Pope is mistaken about. I think he is a good man. A Godly man. A man of faith. He reminds me of the first John Paul. Another holy good man who was in over his head.
I will pray that God will keep him safe. Also that the people charged with protecting him are not endangered by his hubris in this matter.
Pope John Paul II was one of the bravest Popes who ever lived. He survived an assassination attack. He lived under the iron thumb of the Communist monolith with life at risk for many, many years. He was strong enough to let other people protect him. He did not feel it made him less of a man, less of a Pope, less of an example. Less of a Priest.
We need another John Paul II. Not another John Paul1.
In fact when I saw Pope Francis with President Obama I was put in mind of another Pope.
Pope Pius.
In which Trooper York piously passes judgement on the pope, preens about his prayers, and pontificates in his predictably pompous way.
I admire the pope's courage and faith.
I would not, however, recommend he forego standard protective measures.
Will it surprise you to learn he has not, so far, sought my advice?
You know how in college sometimes, between periods, students are coming into the classroom but the teacher from the previous class is still putting together her papers or something?
I was gabbing with someone and I referred to some place as a "deep, dark, dank, damp, dingy, dreary, disgusting dungeon."
The teacher overheard me and was delighted and she praised me for my "wonderful powers of alliteration."
I graciously accepted the compliment, mostly because I didn't have the heart to tell her I'd ripped that off from a skit I saw on TV on "Sesame Street."
The Holy Father is pretty far removed from the basis of the Church. The simple parish priest who tends his flock and helps them navigate through the passages of life. As you know most who rise so high are at heart politicians more than simple priests.
A simple priest just would have done it without fanfare. He would go out to be with the people unpublicized. Instead of making a big deal of eating at a diner like Obama did or going to McDonalds like Clinton. You can keep the common touch and talk to the people without the cameras.
As others have said much better than I....he needs to realize he is putting others at risk when he is so cavalier about his own safety.
But who will have the guts to tell him so?
Trooper York said...
As you know most who rise so high are at heart politicians more than simple priests.
And this is true in most walks of life. It is one unfortunate outcome of living in a complex hierarchical society that politicians end up at the top of almost every field. One of the appeals of sport is that Tim Duncan can still win.
"But who will have the guts to tell him so? "
Why would it take any guts at all? If you really cared, you would give up your pursuit of getting rich by grifting and conning the fat women of Brooklyn to waste their money on your scam, follow Pope Francis until you get close enough to dialogue with him, and then convince him of the dangers you perceive him to be creating.
But you don't have the guts. So you post and preen and pretend you care while in fact you hate his guts because you see his views as threats to your "faith".
Trooper,
Very true.
I hope he stays unharmed, and his staff and the police/military where he visits remain uninjured.
I hope it's just his ignorance on display. He seems not the arrogant type.
DBQ, as soon as I posted I realized the free will aspect. And then right under my post Pogo had one just as good: Thou shalt tempt the Lord thy God.
Reminds me of an old joke:
A woman was drowning and someone threw her a life preserver, and she yelled, no, I trust in my God to save me!
Someone rowed out to her and she refused get in the boat saying, no, I trust my God to save me!
A helicopter flew over and dropped down a ladder, and she said no, I trust my God to save me! Then she drowned.
Up in heaven she asked God why he didn't save her. He answered, I sent you a life preserver, a boat, and helicopter!
I haven't finished watching all of England vs. Italy but I was impressed that I didn't see any of the boyfight-quality ballbusting on the corner kicks that I've seen in other soccer matches.
Well, the Pope certainly has free will, just as the rest of us do.
I only hope that his consideration isn't just for his own mortality and his own mortal soul, but also for the consequences to the rest of us should he become a martyr to a religious or political fanatic.
This is one of the things that I fear about Obama. That he would be assassinated; not that I care about "that part" in particular, but rather what would happen if he were. A race war for certain. Far far worse than what is happening now. The political unrest would shatter the country and would probably rock the world given the unstable middle east, the power vacuum that Obama has created and the religious genocide/war going on there right now. So, as much as I would love to see Obama gone.....this would be the worst way for it to occur.
Should the Pope become a martyr due to his refusing to take precautions, (for whatever reasons: wanting to be back among the people, hubris, misguided best intentions) the consequences for the world would be dire.
I think it's a good thing that people have the capacity to feel gratitude but I find it hard to believe that ordinarily intelligent people really believe that God does things like make the train late, because you were late to the station, so you ended up making it to that important meeting on time, anyway.
Thank God!!!
Maybe it's like a false positive with the agency detector.
Anyway, they did a pretty good job of lampooning that sort of thing with Carla Tortelli on Cheers, who was pretty much a female version of that character that Danny DeVito always played.
Coincidence? I think not.
"NEVER PLEASED. ALWAYS GRATEFUL."
I've been giving serious thought, lately, to making that my official personal motto.
Not because it's so cool or anything.
Because it's an accurate description.
Maybe I can get it translated into Latin and have it put on a T-shirt.
You know . . . take it out for a test drive and see if it gets me laid.
Woah! Look at the clock!
The BAC is just about right and it looks like it's time to head down to the basement and experiment with my nifty, brand new, DIY squat rack.
Wish me luck.
And yes, I will overdo it.
One of the major problems I have with this Pope as that his greatest cheerleaders are people who are enemies of the Church and all that it stands for on earth. The main stream media and the vandals that would destroy traditional values and everything the Church stands for love this Pope because they hope he will buy into their world view. It is too early to tell where he will take us.
I hope this Pope is not like the Conservative congressman who come to Washington and so enjoy the accolades of the intelligentsia that they abandon the people and their values.
Bravo and Brava all you focused and self disciplined commenters.
I do agree with Dust Bunny Queen that the Pope puts more than just his person at risk from Muslim fanatics or other lunatics.
A man was obviously developing heart disease and someone advised him to exercise, moderate his diet, and lose weight, and he yelled, no, I trust in my God to protect me!
Someone emailed him to beg him to get his blood pressure under control but he refused to change his life style saying, no, I trust my God to save me!
A team of doctors flew in and, with the man’s family and friends, performed an intervention, telling the man he must take steps to improve his health or he would die.
The man said no, I trust my God to save me!
Then he died.
Up in heaven the man asked God why he didn't save him.
God answered, I did, you big ungrateful dummy!
About "context":
Here's Vatican Radio's piece on the interview.
And here's the interview in Spanish in the Spanish newspaper.
And here's Google's translation of that article.
Unless that translation is way off, it reflects what's being reported, so I don't think context changes it -- pertinent part:
Question: "You have broken many security protocols to approach people."
Answer: "I know that something can happen, but it's in God's hands. I remember in Brazil I had prepared an enclosed popemobile, with glass, but I can not say hello to people and tell him I love in a sardine can, even glass. To me that is a wall. It is true that anything can happen, but let's face it, at my age I do not have much to lose."
I hope that is the case Lydia. The Pope does not strike me as a foolish man. Perhaps this is a tempest in a teapot and people that want to use this Pope for their own nefarious purposes are ginning up this controversy.
We shall see what happens as we go forward.
You can never believe what you read in the press.
Francis is wearing The Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, right? That's the only protection he needs.
Lazy faithless hand-wringers.
It is true that anything can happen, but let's face it, at my age I do not have much to lose."
If he were just some ordinary old fart of a guy, I would agree.
However. He is not just some ordinary guy whose death by murder would only affect perhaps a few people who are close friends or family.
The assassination of the Pope is something that will affect millions of people. For him to be so self centered and cavalier is rather disconcerting. I hope that the translation of the article is not correct.
Without referring to anyone here, I will let each of you decide who would best benefit from this story.
Fr. Rod, a Filipino priest who is a close friend, was sitting and patiently letting me talk it out in the years after Myrna's death.
"I am so angry at God," I told Fr. Rod.
"That's OK," he laughed. "God can take it."
Much is made of Francis's humility, like washing the feet of prisoners, etc.
But it's also a sign of humility to place your trust in and to follow the wishes of those tasked to protect you. And they must protect not just the pope, but others who could be injured/killed in an attempt on his life.
I agree. That is why I never joined in bashing Obama for the cost of the Secret Service to defend his sorry ass. It would be an unmitigated disaster in so many ways if anything happened to this President or this Pope. They need to be protected even if it is from themselves. No matter what.
Priests are a lot smarter and more world wise than people who've never known priests think.
I know a lot of priests.
They certainly hear enough about sin and pain to get a handle on what this world is about. That's for sure.
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