I know what's worse. We have traitors within our government.
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
People should read the quotes of this old Roman Senator.
Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the 'new, wonderful good society' which shall now be Rome, interpreted to mean 'more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.'
Marcus Tullius Cicero
His comments about the Jews would get you banned from many sites.
I wouldn't post Cicero's comments on "the Jews" so I wouldn't get banned.
Michael, whatever's behind your need to keep bringing Jews into the comments left here, is coloring whatever good you are hoping to contribute, and does not, in my opinion, add to your credability.
Rome had history with them, maybe Pontus Pilate or such? You are aware that sometime after Jesus made a whip of the cords in the Temple to drive out the Money Changers saying what Mamma? That Rome again destroyed their Temple and dispersed the Jews across the known world.
Or their worshiping Baal and God having the Babylonians take them captive and destroying their nation until generations passed and God restored them?
Plenty more in there, not all sweetness and light. And the vast majority of that history is of WHAT PEOPLE Mamma?
I worship God and His Son who was crucified for my sins. Not Israel.
Perhaps it might help you to know, Michael, as you comment here, that I'm fairly familar with History. I've also heard the Bible read daily (a chapter at a time-- including the begats-- from cover to cover) at our family dinner table for the first 18 years of my life, heard 2 sermons a week on the topic, and was educated in private Christian schools through college, with 30 more years of comprehensive Bible study after that. Please don't presume to lecture me on Bible knowledge or "the Jews" as if you are in the know and I am not.
Given the Son, whom you claim to worship, was said to have been full of Truth and Grace, truth and grace is what I look for and respect in those who comment on "the Jews" . I believe this to be in keeping with Jesus' overall approach and the Apostle Paul's declaration in Galations 3: 26-29: "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Oddly you have said exactly what I was going to say.
WE of Christ ARE God's Chosen People. Grafted in and as Mattthew 3 says:
8Produce fruit, then, in keeping with repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The axe lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.…
Luke 6
43No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44For each tree is known by its own fruit. Indeed, figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor grapes from brambles. 45The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart. For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.…
John 1
13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. 14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testified concerning Him. He cried out, saying, “This is He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’ ”…
GOD's Grace and Gods Truth. Mercy and Love.
Hebrew 12 is too large to post so a snip:
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.
WHO WAS Esau? Look it up.
Bible history is the history of mostly what people?
Did you look up who Esau was and perhaps prayed a bit why Hebrews would refer him as godless?
That Jews are not the only Chosen anymore, that by Christ we are His people?
Did you really read this bit of scripture:
Mattthew 3 says:
8Produce fruit, then, in keeping with repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The axe lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.…
Jesus literally told them being "Children of Abraham" was meaningless as God could (and with the birth of THE WAY as Christianity was called) WOULD replace the Jews with a new people that OBEYED the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
But then again, I've notice you have opinions but so far, no real use of scriptures in support of those opinions.
Please feel free to show me your extensive readings of the scriptures and I will be overjoyed to share mine.
It's scriptural you know:
Proverbs 27:17 New International Version 17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
Again, Michael, I have no idea where you are coming from, what the actual point you're trying to make might be, or what's behind your intensity and use of CAPS.
As I said earlier, whatever good you are hoping to contribute by commenting here, is not enhanced by your focus on "the Jews" as if they are all as one, the manner in which you've been presenting your opinions and Bible verses, and the imperious close to contemptious tone used in your responses to me. None of it, in my opinion, adds to your credability. In fact it makes me wonder if AI or a bot might be involved?
The question of whether I looked up "who Esau was and perhaps prayed a bit" about why the writer of Hebrews considered him godless, along with your "Did you really read..." question was enough to make me shake my head and wonder what would prompt a self-proclaimed follower of Christ, to chose this way to interact with others he is hoping to teach, lead, connect with or convince?
I'm smiling too, Michael. I also experience the apostal Paul as an intense man with issues and experiences that shaped him into who he was, what he believed, and how he interacted with others.
The following encounters two other followers of Christ are reported to have had with Him also make me smile and shake my head in wonderment:
The first involves Peter, when Jesus "turned and looked straight at Peter". prompting Peter to remember the words the Lord had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times". I wonder what was in that look?
And the second involves Stephen, who, while being stoned by the hypereligious, judgmental and hypocritical Pharisees and members of the Sanhedrin, with Saul/Paul standing by to watch, approve and hold their cloaks, "looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God". I wonder what Stephen saw on Jesus' face?
And when I consider that Jesus was born as Jew, taught from Hebrew scriptures, died as Jew, and while doing so asked His father to forgive all those (Romans and Jews alike) who were killing him, I wonder how he'd view, look at, and regard those who find it necessary to lump all "the Jews" together and speak of them as a group with anything less than truth and grace?
11 comments:
I don't know which is more apt.
I know what's worse. We have traitors within our government.
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
People should read the quotes of this old Roman Senator.
Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the 'new, wonderful good society' which shall now be Rome, interpreted to mean 'more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.'
Marcus Tullius Cicero
His comments about the Jews would get you banned from many sites.
I wouldn't post Cicero's comments on "the Jews" so I wouldn't get banned.
Michael, whatever's behind your need to keep bringing Jews into the comments left here, is coloring whatever good you are hoping to contribute, and does not, in my opinion, add to your credability.
History is MammaM.
The Bible is full of History.
Rome had history with them, maybe Pontus Pilate or such? You are aware that sometime after Jesus made a whip of the cords in the Temple to drive out the Money Changers saying what Mamma? That Rome again destroyed their Temple and dispersed the Jews across the known world.
Or their worshiping Baal and God having the Babylonians take them captive and destroying their nation until generations passed and God restored them?
Plenty more in there, not all sweetness and light. And the vast majority of that history is of WHAT PEOPLE Mamma?
I worship God and His Son who was crucified for my sins. Not Israel.
Perhaps it might help you to know, Michael, as you comment here, that I'm fairly familar with History. I've also heard the Bible read daily (a chapter at a time-- including the begats-- from cover to cover) at our family dinner table for the first 18 years of my life, heard 2 sermons a week on the topic, and was educated in private Christian schools through college, with 30 more years of comprehensive Bible study after that. Please don't presume to lecture me on Bible knowledge or "the Jews" as if you are in the know and I am not.
Given the Son, whom you claim to worship, was said to have been full of Truth and Grace, truth and grace is what I look for and respect in those who comment on "the Jews" . I believe this to be in keeping with Jesus' overall approach and the Apostle Paul's declaration in Galations 3: 26-29: "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Make of that what you will.
Oddly you have said exactly what I was going to say.
WE of Christ ARE God's Chosen People. Grafted in and as Mattthew 3 says:
8Produce fruit, then, in keeping with repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The axe lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.…
Luke 6
43No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44For each tree is known by its own fruit. Indeed, figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor grapes from brambles. 45The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart. For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.…
John 1
13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. 14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testified concerning Him. He cried out, saying, “This is He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’ ”…
GOD's Grace and Gods Truth. Mercy and Love.
Hebrew 12 is too large to post so a snip:
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.
WHO WAS Esau? Look it up.
Bible history is the history of mostly what people?
I honestly have no idea what point you are attempting to make, Michael.
Did you look up who Esau was and perhaps prayed a bit why Hebrews would refer him as godless?
That Jews are not the only Chosen anymore, that by Christ we are His people?
Did you really read this bit of scripture:
Mattthew 3 says:
8Produce fruit, then, in keeping with repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The axe lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.…
Jesus literally told them being "Children of Abraham" was meaningless as God could (and with the birth of THE WAY as Christianity was called) WOULD replace the Jews with a new people that OBEYED the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
But then again, I've notice you have opinions but so far, no real use of scriptures in support of those opinions.
Please feel free to show me your extensive readings of the scriptures and I will be overjoyed to share mine.
It's scriptural you know:
Proverbs 27:17
New International Version
17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one person sharpens another.
Again, Michael, I have no idea where you are coming from, what the actual point you're trying to make might be, or what's behind your intensity and use of CAPS.
As I said earlier, whatever good you are hoping to contribute by commenting here, is not enhanced by your focus on "the Jews" as if they are all as one, the manner in which you've been presenting your opinions and Bible verses, and the imperious close to contemptious tone used in your responses to me. None of it, in my opinion, adds to your credability. In fact it makes me wonder if AI or a bot might be involved?
The question of whether I looked up "who Esau was and perhaps prayed a bit" about why the writer of Hebrews considered him godless, along with your "Did you really read..." question was enough to make me shake my head and wonder what would prompt a self-proclaimed follower of Christ, to chose this way to interact with others he is hoping to teach, lead, connect with or convince?
Smiling, ok. Carry on. Paul would say that also. HE was intense.
I'm smiling too, Michael. I also experience the apostal Paul as an intense man with issues and experiences that shaped him into who he was, what he believed, and how he interacted with others.
The following encounters two other followers of Christ are reported to have had with Him also make me smile and shake my head in wonderment:
The first involves Peter, when Jesus "turned and looked straight at Peter". prompting Peter to remember the words the Lord had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times". I wonder what was in that look?
And the second involves Stephen, who, while being stoned by the hypereligious, judgmental and hypocritical Pharisees and members of the Sanhedrin, with Saul/Paul standing by to watch, approve and hold their cloaks, "looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God". I wonder what Stephen saw on Jesus' face?
And when I consider that Jesus was born as Jew, taught from Hebrew scriptures, died as Jew, and while doing so asked His father to forgive all those (Romans and Jews alike) who were killing him, I wonder how he'd view, look at, and regard those who find it necessary to lump all "the Jews" together and speak of them as a group with anything less than truth and grace?
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