From the Vox Day blog quoting the Zman:
Yesterday, the alt-right and even many seasoned geezers like me took a body blow when Trump abandoned everything he said over the last two years and embraced the idiocy of yet another war in the Middle East. Not only is he embracing the lunacy of the traitorous neocons, he is risking war with Russia. His “reason” for condemning himself to ruin is that his daughter got the sads over seeing pictures of dead kids in Syria. She takes to twitter over this latest agit-prop and in a day daddy is launching missiles at Assad.
The United States has no interest in Syria. There are no good guys to back. There’s no “solution” to what ails that part of the world, short of another flood. Syria is a mess because it is full of Syrians. The only sane policy is to make sure it remains full of Syrians. Let them kill each other there, not in Paris or Portland. If the Russians want to build their pipeline there and pay the price for it, good for them. If the Saudis want to stop them, best of luck with it. This is not an American problem. It is their problem. Let them own it.
41 comments:
I always knew that "correct" sophisticate daughter would be the undoing of Dad.
Well, okay, I didn't know...I suspected.
The war between Bannon and Kushner will determine the fate of Trump's presidency. If he repudiates Bannon and the nationalists he loses the base and enthusiasm of his campaign. I think he is too smart to do that. I don't know if Ivanka is smart enough to back off.
We have to see how it goes.
Again, I think a lot of people panicking over this are mistaken.
Surber, who was in Troop's camp yesterday, has rethought it. He notes the end game is not necessarily to win friends, but certainly to influence people. Last night, I linked this piece from the Gray Lady, to reinforce the point (whoda thunk Pinch would get it right?), whose headline says it all, U.S. Strikes on Syria Put Xi in Tough Position for Trump Meeting.
This piece from the Last Refuge raises a number of points aboutthe real message. It also quotes Tillerson, who seems to have a Special Forces solution in mind.
YMMV, but both pieces are interesting and show how much more there is here than meets the eye.
I am not panicking ed. I am looking at the situation and weighing the alternatives.
When you do something that is praised by John McCain, Lindsey Graham, the Media and the Democrats you are doing something wrong.
Did you see Lindsey Graham on Tucker Carlson? He was talking about putting US troops into Syria to take out Assad and end Russian influence. This is what you get when you buy into the globalist cuck worldview. It is a very slippery slope. He took one tentative step onto the slope. I hope he pulls back.
I tend to agree that we should stay out of that clusterfuck. However, chemical weapons changes the equation. War is madness, but there are some rules. The response was sensible. But, if Trump gets sucked into this mess then he does lose the core of his support. What I do like is our enemies don't have a fucking clue what Trump will or won't do. That is somewhat of a double edged sword, but I sorta like it.
People are just as dead with conventional weapons as they are with gas. They tried to get us to intervene with kids getting shot in the street videos. That didn't work. So they upped the ante with poison gas.
If this is a one off than I can swallow it. Everybody gets one. Trump is a vain guy. If all the praise he is getting goes to his head he might reverse on a dime and get more involved in this quagmire. I want him to remember who got him there. The nationalist isolationist right and the workers who lost their jobs to immigrants and jobs going over seas. Not the GOPe or the media whores.
Chemical weapons are like betting on baseball if you are a player, manager, etc. Or, look upon it as a cardinal sin. Unacceptable.
Maybe.
Heres the thing. If the Hutus used poison gas on the Tutsi are we supposed to intervene?
If the Indians used poison gas on the Paki's are we supposed to bomb them?
Where does our repsonsiblity for all of the problems in the world end?
Meanwhile kids can't go to school in Chicago without wearing a bullet proof vest. Could the
56 million we paid for those bombs be put to good use there? Putting the feds in to stop the corruption and despair? Could that 56 million be better spent on fixing a bridge or a highway?
Why do we need to intervene because ragheads are killing each other? They are just as dead anyway they do it.
This is just macho posturing. Muslims killing Muslims is a good thing. If they are doing that they are not killing us or the Jews.
Stay away from foreign entanglements. Listen to the wisdom of General Washington.
I believe in America first. We have absolutely no vital interests in Syria. Except keeping the Syrians in Syria. That's it.
Trooper York said...
I am not panicking ed. I am looking at the situation and weighing the alternatives.
When you do something that is praised by John McCain, Lindsey Graham, the Media and the Democrats you are doing something wrong.
If you're doing it for the reasons they ascribe and the policy ends they espouse, then, yes, but I don't think that's the case here.
Did you see Lindsey Graham on Tucker Carlson? He was talking about putting US troops into Syria to take out Assad and end Russian influence
That does not seem to be Trump's position here. If he uses ground troops, it looks like it's gonna be the spec ops guys already there, and mostly Special Forces doing what only they do right and better than anybody else.
Stay away from foreign entanglements. Listen to the wisdom of General Washington.
George was talking about alliances. And the world, in terms of reach, has changed in 200 years.
Again, I think it was a demonstration that the guy who led out of his behind for 8 years has left the building. That, if provoked, Trump will act; no red lines, no whining about it's not how the cool countries act.
Just do it, as hard and fast as possible.
I believe in America first. We have absolutely no vital interests in Syria. Except keeping the Syrians in Syria. That's it.
OK, but, to play the sophist, I've seen a couple of pieces with Syrians saying we'd rather stay in our country than come to yours, but we'd like to live through it. You can make the point stopping the bloodletting is the best way to accomplish that.
I agree that we had no business getting involved when Pissy and the Beast were looking for more people to kill, and I'd like us to stay out of it now. I'm just saying the obvious explanation isn't always the right one.
"We have absolutely no vital interests in Syria."
ISIS?
As fun as the men who comment here in the name of Levity can be, blaming the woman is almost as old and dusty as time. As the story goes it was the clay man (a word play on Hebrew אֲדָמָה ('adamah) "earth") who decided for himself to take a bite in the beginning while blaming the woman who blamed the snake who turned up in setting deemed to be Paradise.
While Ivanka may be part of the dynamic, it is Trump who is responsible for the actions he takes. He appears to me to be positioning himself to address North Korea.
When the Wise Teacher came along (in the same collection of books containing the Clay Man story) and said all the rules and best ways to live could be summed up in two, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself", the wise guys seeking to trap him went to "Who is my neighbor?" To which the Wise Teacher responded with a story that returned this to them at the end: "Who proved neighbor to the one in need?"
The heaven and hell in that response is that there is no way for Clay Men to keep themselves pure and unsullied as they wrestle with the responsibility of determining and responding to need, as money, blood, time and personal sacrifice were part of the story told.
When people who stand by a religion based on those stories and teachings wrestle with the questions of what need and being a neighbor involves, the slope is indeed slippery as there is no absolutely clear path. In the end, integrity matters. Trump may or may not be biting into the wrong fruit. He also may or may not be wrestling with what loving oneself and being a neighbor involves. Vain or not, his integrity appears to matter to some degree to him, which allows me to hope and pray he'll wrestle more honestly with the question of need in his attempts to find his feet on the slippery slope than Hillary would have with all of her slime.
Mama M I think Ivanka has always been a player in the Trump empire. Second only to the Donald.
She is the mover in the relationship not Kushner. His power derives from her power. She is the most influential advisor that Trump has. I know you might laugh but I base this on what I saw on the Celebrity Apprentice. She was the only one whose opinion Trump respected. He blew off what his long time lawyer George said and treated his sons like the were retarded. Ivanka is the one whose opinion counts. Not because she is a woman. But because she is Ivanka.
Trump was involved w/ Ivanka's education when she was @ Choate, much to the chagrin of the Choate staff. Body language, demeanor, etc. tells me she's the chosen one.
Since we are being labelled sexists, I thank the Good Lord we are looking @ Ivanka and not Webb Hubbel's outside child.
My hope is this was a purpose pitch. Trump had the Chinaman at his house and decided to throw some chin music @ Assad. Time will tell.
I grew up in Damascus. When our fire and brimstone Southern Baptist preacher got up in the pulpit and told us the story of Paul on the road to Damascus, my young mind immediately wondered whether Paul was on Rt. 27 or Rt. 108.
Today some people were wailing about "We are at war because there is a crazy man in the White House". I reminded them that Obama was gone and we, as a nation, have been at war for decades. At least since the first WTC tower bombing. That shut them up. As did "Just what the fuck has actually changed in your life as a result of who is or isn't president?" Silence.
Next week is Welcome Immigrants week. I am undecided whether to stay home or carry a couple hundred extra rounds of G2 RIP .45 ammo with me. Either way, I plan on being prepared.
I just hope that Trump is not overly impressed by his generals. It certainly seemed that way in the transition where he praised Mad Dog like he was the second coming of Patton. That was the mistake that Kennedy made. Another rich dilettante who wanted to prove he wasn't a pussy. The key difference was that at least Kennedy served and knew that the military can screw up. The way he did in his incompetence in PT-109. Trump doesn't have even that shred of credibility. I am worried that he is going to try and gin that up with foreign entanglements.
That was always the danger with Trump. If he abandons Bannon and his nationalistic isolationism we are in for a lot of trouble.
Trump needs to listen to his true followers. Ann Coulter. Vox Day. Michael Chenovich. Richard Spencer. Milo. Me.
Stay out of Syria. Leave Syria to the Syrians. Disengage from the endless war in the Middle East.
Red lines were crossed. As far as it not being our problem? Too late.
Note: I'm no isolationist. Isolationism is folly.
I've always wanted our military to be a force for good.
You're lucky you have Trump. If I was running the show, there would be about a million people dead by now.
I think Rabel and Mama have good points.
Rabel said...
We have absolutely no vital interests in Syria.
ISIS?
IS is pulling strings all over the world. That's why all the terror attacks (long gunman, truck, etc.) all look alike, but it appears Trump's decided to go the spec ops route with them (good thought IMHO).
MamaM said...
While Ivanka may be part of the dynamic, it is Trump who is responsible for the actions he takes. He appears to me to be positioning himself to address North Korea
I agree with Troop Ivanka is more Left than Trump will ever be, Mama's right when she says this has more of an audience than IS.
Trooper York said...
I just hope that Trump is not overly impressed by his generals. It certainly seemed that way in the transition where he praised Mad Dog like he was the second coming of Patton
Patton wasn't that good, either. I have to agree, when I heard all the "warrior monk" stuff, I got nervous. Show me a guy who's satisfied with just being called a good soldier (Allen, for example) and he's the guy I trust.
Trump is always going to use superlatives, that's just him. I do think he's got a lot more brains than Jack Kennedy.
We'll see.
I want Omar Bradley not Patton. For peacetime. I hope this is peacetime.
Warriors fight. That is what they do. When you put a warrior in charge you get in fights.
When I was managing a bar I had to be very careful who I hired as a bouncer. His job wasn't to win fights. His job was to avoid fights.
Ike and Truman were the last Presidents who were not overly impressed by the brass.
The Inherent Resolve coalition (mostly us and not including Russia) has conducted over 8000 airstrikes in Syria since 2014, dropping tens of thousands of bombs. We have around 2000 boots on the ground in Syria primarily in the form of two 400 man Marine artillery units and special forces in various roles.
We're in Syria up to our eyeballs. It's best to get on the team and support the US effort. An alternative is to get all hormonal about it and spend your time on soap opera rumors about the White House from unnamed sources. Take your pick. I'm with the President and the USA.
1914 called and they want their foreign policy back.
He told us he was going to eliminate ISIS. How did you think that was going to happen.
It's not.
If ISIS is gone some new bunch of ragheads is going to start up. Deport them. Segregate them. Keep them out of your country and your problems are over.
That's the answer. That is what we signed up for. It won't be easy. The liberal court cunts are going to do all they can to stop it. He has to Andrew Jackson it. Trail of Tears it. That is the only thing that works.
If you give them an inch they will be up in your business. They are like cockroaches. The only way to get rid of an infestation?
Back to the bogus reason for bombing. Screw them.
The America of 1914 was a lot better than what we have today. Except for the technology.
But in almost every way I can think of it would be far preferable.
Well maybe except dentistry.
But otherwise lets go back in time.
Did Congress vote military intervention in Syria? If there are troops there they are there illegally.
Has it been proven that Assad used the gas? It's just as likely that IS could have.
We have been removing despotic though secular regimes since the first Gulf War for the benefit of the duplicitous Saudis. ISIS are Wahabi fundamentalists in cahoots with the Saudis. The Saudis funded the Taliban , funded Al Qaida and certain elements funded 9/11.
Want to end ISIS. take out the Saudis. I don't think we have any business in Syria and I didn't think so for Iraq as well.
Someone mentioned Quadafi as someone who was rendered peaceful by Reagan's bombing raid. uh-uh. In two years he ordered the bombing of PAN AM 103. He lived out his life generally unmolested until some rebels stuck a bayonet up his ass. Both cross-eyed Bushes saw no need to avenge the deaths of any children killed in Lockerbie.
Trooper York said...
Don't waste another dime on these worthless pieces of shit. Bring our boys home. From Syria. From Germany. From Korea. Enough is enough.
I thought Trump was with the program. The proof is in the pudding.
Now you're just plain wrong. One strike, one shot across the bow, is not intervention and it isn't war.
If Trump just wanted to make a point, he made it. I haven't seen any follow-up, and I haven't any announcement of troop commitments.
So it looks like we do have a one off and that should be the end of it.
ampersand said...
Someone mentioned Quadafi as someone who was rendered peaceful by Reagan's bombing raid. uh-uh. In two years he ordered the bombing of PAN AM 103. He lived out his life generally unmolested until some rebels stuck a bayonet up his ass. Both cross-eyed Bushes saw no need to avenge the deaths of any children killed in Lockerbie.
I was the one who mentioned it, and I stand by it.
Khadaffy never poked his head out of his hole again. Once his Zone of Death was penetrated, that was the end of him on the world stage. The Limeys avenged Lockerbie and that was the end.
When Dubya went in to Iraq, Muammar couldn't give up his WMDs fast enough and pledge his desire for ever-lasting peace with the US.
If you're going to tell the story, get it right.
Yes, 1914 was a wonderful time. But not as good as 1918 and the great Flu Pandemic. Actually, the spread and damage of that flu virus was in large part due to our involvement in The Great War. Woodrow Wilson obsessed on the War and ignored the pandemic. And, soldiers moving around the world helped spread the flu. The first case was a soldier @ Fort Riley, KS. However, the medical profession was forced to step up their game and that pandemic helped bring medicine into modernity. So, that was a good thing.
Spend on money on America. On Americans.
Raytheon (maker of Tomahawks) is an American company last I checked.
Bullshit. He came out of his hole, ordered PAN Am 103 and UTA Flight 772 blown up. No one avenged anything.
The Brits on behalf of BP oil dealings with Qadaffy, released the one guy convicted of the bombing on "compassionate grounds". Al-Megrahi served 9 years for the murder of 270 people.
Qadaffy lived happily ever after, til he got a rebel bayonet shoved up his ass.
Something did pacify Qadaffy -- enough to make him give up seeking nukes. I thought it was the spectacle of seeing Saddam deposed.
Something did pacify Qadaffy
There was. The lifting of economic sanctions.
No, he was scared. The night Reagan came after him, he was in his tent instead of the palace. That's the only thing that saved his ass.
And Maggie sent the SAS after the perps, who died real fast.
The fact Dubya went after Saddam reinforced the idea he could be next, so he made the big surrender on his weapons.
All this BP stuff is BS. Megrahi was on his last legs with prostate cancer and, in fact, there's no real evidence Khadaffy did order it. There are people who say it was Abu Nidal who came up with the idea, but it's interesting to note Megrahi was the only guy arrested, so this is more of the isolationist, conspiratorial nonsense we've been getting any time something like this happens.
PS Interesting point of CNBC (of all places). With the airstrike, Trump destroyed ythe Demos' Russia card.
Trooper York said...
I am not panicking ed. I am looking at the situation and weighing the alternatives.
When you do something that is praised by John McCain, Lindsey Graham, the Media and the Democrats you are doing something wrong.
Did you see Lindsey Graham on Tucker Carlson? He was talking about putting US troops into Syria to take out Assad and end Russian influence. This is what you get when you buy into the globalist cuck worldview. It is a very slippery slope. He took one tentative step onto the slope. I hope he pulls back.
No, the optics here is that these shit-heads are hitching a ride on Trumps call to action. It's a no lose for any of them and they look like puff pieces. Now they will have a much harder time trying to pin shit on Trump in their conspiratorial fashion.
Senators can say all the shit they want and they often do, but it's Trump that gets the say so on putting boots on the ground and he won't send those guys in unless there is a compelling reason to. This wasn't it and I can bet you that when he talked to his Joint Chiefs, he's all the alternative scenarios he needs at his disposal.
You're lucky you have Trump. If I was running the show, there would be about a million people dead by now.
I know... me too!
All the bad peoples, tho.
There are no good players in Syria, but there are worse players. If it causes some of the players to rethink their more heinous acts, then it's a small, fragile victory......I don't think anything good will come out of the Mideast. Assad uses poison gas on children. His opponents use children to execute their prisoners. Fuck them all. Still, it's a good thing for Assad to factor in the American response whilst pondering the use of chemical weapons.......The study of history, as someone by now must have observed, teaches us that the study of history has no useful lessons. Perhaps this will lead to further involvement. Perhaps this will lead to the suppression of the use of chemical weapons. I wouldn't bet either way.
"...the study of history has no useful lessons."
Entropy always wins?
The study of history is chock full of useful lessons.
It is our arrogance that stops us from taking advantage of what history teaches us.
That bushel of crabs looks great.
Who knew that Troop and Kevin Williamson would be on the same page about Trump?
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