Monday, April 18, 2016

Woof, woof, woof!



Sleeping Dogs are Waking.

So says Victor  Davis Hanson the noted writer David on military and foreign affair on Instapundit.

He notes how the cumulative effect of the Obama administration and the deterioration of our cultural norms has lead very dangerous ground. Something I have thought for some time. He talks about the effect on Colleges, Race and the Economy. But I find his most interesting thoughts are about tribalism.

"A multiracial, single-cultural U.S. was an historical fluke. No other society has ever quite pulled that feat off—not Austria-Hungary, not Rwanda, not Iraq, not Yugoslavia. To ensure multiracial harmony, cultural unity (or what is now dismissively written off as the "melting pot") was essential.

Yet the Obama era has reawakened ethnic chauvinism and multiculturalism in a way we have never quite seen before in recent American history. Who would have thought that in 2009, the racist firebrand, tax-delinquent, anti-Semite, former FBI informant, and conspiracist Al Sharpton would become the chief presidential advisor on race, or that the attorney general would refer to blacks as “my people” and the rest of the country as “cowards,” or that the president would urge Latinos to “punish our enemies,” or that something chauvinistic called “Black Lives Matter” would consider a corollary ecumenical “All Lives Matter” as racist, or that “white privilege” would be a slur hurled against the largely working white classes by mostly minority and white elites in academia, politics, journalism and the arts?

Coupled with years of open borders, a failure to enforce immigration laws, hostility to integration and assimilation, and racial preferences in hiring and admissions, the Obama administration in just over seven years has nearly achieved its aims of racializing the American experience to such a degree that everyone must now belong to his particular tribe first, and begrudgingly remain an American a distant second.
An example of our future is found in Rome around the early 5th century AD onward, when parochialism and localism reasserted themselves, as Civis Romanus sum was rendered irrelevant. I fear that self-segregation is already institutionalized, as people migrate to live with like kind in red and blue states. And states such as California have divided into two antithetical societies, in which an interior Fresno is about as akin to coastal Newport or Palo Alto as Somalia is to Switzerland.
This is not going to end well, largely because the remedy—melting-pot assimilation, integration, and intermarriage—simply would threaten far too many lucrative careers ranging from those of an Al Sharpton and Black Lives Matter to La Raza and Jorge Ramos. When a person pledges his career and future to the color of his skin or tribe, he will fight tooth and nail for that crutch, given that his greatest fear is to be judged on the content of his character. Tribal identification is historically the last refuge for scoundrels."

I think he is exactly right. In fact he explains the essential appeal and continuing popularity of Donald Trump. That is what the pajama boys at NRO don't get and never will. 

97 comments:

edutcher said...

Last I heard, VDH was on the same bandwagon (or is it take) as the rest of the PJMedia crowd, but he has certainly encapsulated the popularity of The Donald.

PS Hey, guys, did you know we've had 3 (count 'em, 3) voterless elections in as many weeks?

That's right, ND had its primary April 3rd.

You didn't know? Betcha can guess who stole all the delegates.

We might never have known if Lyin' Ted had been able to keep his big, fat mouth shut.

And all you Trumpist thugs will want to know the Anointed One wants to keep you "energized and engaged" so you can unite behind him against Hillary this Fall.

That's right, even though they won't apologize after footage shows the Secret Service warning Fields to back off in the "attack" on her and even a party spokesjoke says the Anointed One is mathematically eliminated and we've seen him stealing delegates, he still wants us to support him.

It may explain why Daddy Cruz is slipping so badly in the polls. Did you know Trump was up 10 a few weeks ago in CA, but it looked like he was slipping?

Well, guess what, now he's up 18.

Since they won't support The Donald and no apologies are forthcoming, I think we should be as Christian as he's been throughout all this.

Trooper York said...

I have been pointing the the tribalism point for quite some time. I think the key point people are missing is that when the nation fractures into tribes it will not be a good thing for these various minorities clambering for their "rights." The white majority has been remarkably tolerant despite the continual attempts to cast them as bitter racists and sexists. If as so many claim whites will themselves become a "minority"...then the time for tolerance is over and we have to demand ours. If that is how the game is to be played than so be it.

I mean the Most Conservative Man in the World has told us that them's the rules and we should follow the rules and stop whining. Fair enough.

edutcher said...

If you study the history of Indian tribes in the hemisphere (do the same thing for the Middle East, Africa, or Inja) and it's pretty much dog-eat-dog. The whole "Hispanic" thing really doesn't have much holding it together but the Democrat Party and the Welfare State.

Make a lot more people competing for the same amount of pie (or even less) and you have Beirut or Syria.

We already see this with some of the gang warfare in places like (surprise!) CA.

Well, this is what they wanted.

PS When people stop whining, it's usually a sign they're about to pick up something.

bagoh20 said...

My tribe thinks your tribe is too tribal.

Sixty Grit said...

I don't know about any of that, but that is a great song.

Methadras said...

Obama has turned the melting pot into a chamber pot.

edutcher said...

Nicely put, although the Lefties have been pushing the multi-culti diversity thing for 40 years.

Trump fan said...

The don should be sworn in ...in abt 9 months

Trooper York said...

It is a great song.

My favorite feminist anthem.

ricpic said...

Actually there is one tribe - the white tribe - which dare not speak its name.

windbag said...

VDH is brilliant. He's been on my favorites list for years. Smart, smart guy, whose expertise in history brings knowledgeable perspective to our current mess. Did you know he's a registered Democrat? His family was Democrat, and he followed their lead. Obviously, he doesn't lean left, but he's another great example of why Dem does not equal lefty...usually, but not always. Reading his accounts of the disintegration of rural California is sobering, as I expect the rest of the nation will follow suit withing a generation or two. Our poor kids.

I was thinking about this very topic as I did yard work today, but I was framing it in terms of what victim group people most identify with, and how we could come up with a victimhood scale when dealing with each other. Like at the movie theater, you could register with the booth what victim groups you belong to, and they could seat you according to your oppression. Same would work for airlines, sporting events, restaurants...you get the picture.

When the jug-eared Messiah took office, I said he'd set back race relations 40 years. I think he may have set it back to the antebellum era, and wouldn't be surprised to see mini-civil wars break out. Ferguson may turn out to be a peek into the future.

Methadras said...

edutcher said...

Nicely put, although the Lefties have been pushing the multi-culti diversity thing for 40 years.


Oh, they've been pushing that shit for longer than that. FDR's henchmen can attest to that. I wonder how much fun satan has been having with Alger Hiss?

Trooper York said...

That's the thing ric. It's changing and Trump is the first stanza. The NRO and the cuckservatives are freaking out about people who are proud of being white. They specifically want them and their communities to die. They are stamping on Trump and the alt-right and anyone who doesn't toe their surrender monkey line because they are on the other side.

This is a class election. It could be the pivot that our political contests will follow. We will fight on different ground. It won't be the left vs. the right. It will be the people vs. the elities. The elites of both the Republican Party and the Democratic party. The fault lines are there and the earth is shaking. If they steal the nomination from Trump they will be dynamiting those lines.

As Hanson says......they really won't like what comes next.

Trooper York said...

Ferguson is indeed a good example. The Black Lives Matters do not want black criminals to be arrested even when they break the law. They lie about the facts of the cases including the Michael Brown case which is the genesis of their movement. They have worked to handcuff the police by stopping community policing and stop and frisk. So the cops are pulling back. The Ferguson effect. More and more communities will turn into Detroit. Or what Baltimore has become.

People will move away. Take their businesses and their culture away and leave it to hood culture. There will be no go zones in every American City. Just the way there were in the 1970's.

Of course Obama has a solution. His pretext of "disparate impact" will allow the government to use demographics to force housing and entitlement in communities specifically created to avoid these problems. He wants to turn everywhere into Detroit.

ricpic said...

Our problem is that the very things that should be reexamined are verboten to discuss and then do something about. Where is it written that the 1964 Immigration Act is never to be reevaluated? Unchanged, that act of unrestrained immigration from the non-white world and severely restrained immigration from Europe will make America majority non-white in what? 2040? 2060? What sane white doesn't find that prospect a complete horror? Yes, there are occasional freak Schmendriks. But I'm talking about the non-mad huge majority of whites who know full well what a non-white non-western nation will mean for their descendants. So why can't we even talk about it? Only talk will break the block of ice we're encased in. After the block is smashed there is no reason that a majority Republican Congress with a President Trump couldn't pass and have signed into law a completely different set of immigration quotas. Or an immigration freeze or near freeze. Over 300 million isn't enough? And all it takes is to not be cowed by the R word and the usual stream of invective from Marxists.

edutcher said...

ricpic said...

Where is it written that the 1964 Immigration Act is never to be reevaluated?


Ted wrote that! What's the matter with you. It's sanctified.

That would be the Lefty rejoinder, but we all know it's gotta happen, just like Roe or same sex marriage and all the other Lefty Gospels that go against how a society needs to live.

Be fun if The Donald could get the ball rolling. All it takes is one guy who won't back down.

Amartel said...

Yes, let's go all-in on Obama and the left's divide-and-conquer strategy. Brilliant. Pretend that "white people' is a "tribe" like the left pretends that "black people" are a tribe or "gay people are a tribe. (A/k/a a "community" to be "organized.") What bullshit; these are not tribes at all, just boxes that people are forced to check so they can get in and stay there. This tribe you propose is not only a politically-manufactured fiction, manufactured by the opposition, it doesn't demonstrate "white pride," or "class pride," or any pride at all. "White Lives Matter, Toooo" is just pitiful. Pitiful. All this tribe talk demonstrates is a lack of (forward) vision and an acceptance of the left's political divisions and strategy. You have been assimilated and are part of the borg. All that is left is for the hivemind to decide how many scraps you will get or whether you'll be scrap.

VDH is the best. Did you read the last line?

edutcher said...

The hivemind doesn't decide.

it is dictated to and that's where the trouble will start when there isn't enough for everybody.

Trooper York said...

Reject the idea of tribes all you want. The fact is that is how the spoils are divided these days. Be an idiot and talk about "vision" and a whole big bag of bullshit. Obama and his ilk are winning. They re-wrote the rules. So we have to play by them.

If you don't believe me ask Ted Cruz.

virgil xenophon said...

Sorry, sportsfans. To even purse one's lips to discuss the advisability of re-evaluating/changing the 1964 (I thought it was 1965?) Immigration Act is to label oneself a bigot at the very least and probably an out & out racist. The avg White American avoids such charges as Dracula avoids the Cross thanks to 56 yrs of leftist indoctrination in academia (K-post Phd) The MSM, the Arts and government resulting in what is now famously known as the collective "White Guilt." At this point it is probably too late to get the general public to seriously engage. Just as physics often dictates that there is a point at which the thrust vector of an aircraft in a steep dive will carry it into ground impact despite the fact the pilot has regained control, has the nose pointed skyward and the engines on full thrust in an attempt to gain altitude. The immutable laws of physics saying the ac will still impact the ground despite the best efforts of the aircrew to save it--only nose up--as if that mattered.

I am afraid we as a civic culture are so far down the chute that it doesn't matter--nose down or nose up--our momentum will inevitability lead to a fatal impact despite the best efforts and skills of ANY aircrew...

Enjoy the decline, as Captain Capitalism says... As for me? I have "mass quantities" of Barbancourt 5-Star Haitian "Rhume" laid in. That's MY solution. But as for my children and grandchildren? As the obsequious M'aitre d in Ferris Buller said: "I weep for the future."

edutcher said...

Trooper York said...

Reject the idea of tribes all you want. The fact is that is how the spoils are divided these days.

It's been that way since the New Deal. When FDR sold out Poland to Stalin, thinking Uncle Joe would keep his word, the first thing he thought of was, "This will help me with the Polish vote".

virgil xenophon said...

Sorry, sportsfans. To even purse one's lips to discuss the advisability of re-evaluating/changing the 1964 (I thought it was 1965?) Immigration Act is to label oneself a bigot at the very least and probably an out & out racist. The avg White American avoids such charges as Dracula avoids the Cross thanks to 56 yrs of leftist indoctrination in academia (K-post Phd) The MSM, the Arts and government

I guess that's why there are so many people voting for Trump (he's up 28 in Jersey), Demos included, so we're all bigots.

Nice to know Troop and I aren't alone.

Trooper York said...

That's the point Virgil. It is not too late. In fact you have to use the concepts of tribes to be able to change the game.

Trump is the only one to realize this even if it is only unconsciously. He is rallying the white tribe. He can peel off enough of the black tribe to depress the Democratic vote enough to flip a few states. He won't win the Mexican tribe. But since the bulk of them are illegal it will have no effect on this election. Of course the Democratic goal is to give them voting rights even if they are not citizens. Because they believe that illegal immigrants rights supersede those of native born Americans both black and white.

bagoh20 said...

I don't want to be in your Whites-only tribe, and neither do most Whites, including, I suspect, Trump and his family. Doesn't the man get enough insults without your help? He's already the most disliked candidate in history, and you're making him out as some kind of KKK leader now. Leave Trump aloooooone!

bagoh20 said...

How much is the Hillary campaign paying you?

Trooper York said...

See that's the problem right there. Speaking up as a member of the white tribe and you are immediately branded as being part of the KKK. As ricpic says you can't talk about it because the virtue signalers will be out in force.

It is not a white only tribe by the way. It is people who adopt and follow white culture. American Norman Rockwell culture. It is not hood culture. It is not hip hop culture. It is not Latino culture. It is the culture that built this country. You know the one that Obama and Hillary said didn't build the country. Scot Irish Andrew Jackson culture. With a leavening of urban ethnics in the ensuing decades as immigrant groups were assimilated and cast their lot with the dominant American culture. The one that Black Lives Matters and La Raza reject, ridicule and seek to eradicate.

To stand up for that is to be branded a racist, sexist KKK member. It is to be wished to death by the virtue signalers and pajama boys.

The Trump campaign is the first relative benign campaign in the looming culture wars. The cultures war that has gone on the last few years are a pale comparison to what is in the offing.

Amartel said...

"Obama and his ilk are winning."

No. The left is imploding. Their bathroom and chalk crises are per se ridiculous. Their candidates are absurd. Nobody likes their hordes of thuggishm, bossy minions. Their phony tribes are fighting each other and regular people are waking up to the fact that they've been bamboozled. Their lies are becoming more obvious to people who were blind before.

"They re-wrote the rules."

No. It's the same tired Alinsky playbook they've been flogging their log to since forever. Gimmegimmegimme or I'll gitcha, and your little dog, too. They got some traction the last 7 1/2 years because a lot of people (suckers) wanted to believe, and continue to want to believe, that the nice well-spoken youngish black man (droning hack of color but no substance) with the smart trouser crease means well for the country, all evidence to the contrary. So he's gotten away with shenanigans that would have meant impeachment for anyone else. The vacation from reality (and with the "recovering" economy) is almost over.

"So we have to play by them."

No. We. Don't.

Amartel said...

There's no white tribe.

Amartel said...

You're actually repelling potential voters.

Amartel said...

Use of the word "cuckservative" is an automatic point deduction.
Most people just stop reading at that point.

Amartel said...

Don't knock "vision," it helps you to see. I see your vision is to "divide the spoils."

Trooper York said...

There is Amartel. You just don't want to admit it. Or feel that they should exist. Or that they should have any rights.

They should just pay the bills and shut up. And die according to Kevin Williamson and NRO.

Amartel said...

Tribal identification is historically the last refuge of scoundrels.
Knock it the fuck off.

Amartel said...

WRONG! That's not what I think.

virgil xenophon said...

What Troop@ 7:17 SAID!!!!!!

Trooper York said...

To reject tribal identification is to reject history. Tribes are the very basis of human history from it's very inception. To deny it's importance is to commit cultural suicide.

The Romans did that. They thought that their culture was so superior that they could withstand the attack of the tribes massed on their borders. They could not.

When primitive tribes attack you have three choices. You can submit and be overwhelmed. You can fight back just as savagely as your opponents. Or you can assimilate them and teach them to live by your cultural norms.

edutcher said...

Amartel said...

There's no white tribe.

Of course there is. It's just that it's so subdivided. There's Catholics, KKKers, Jews, Micks, Eyeties, Squareheads, Polacks, Dutchmen (as opposed to Dutch men), white Hispanics, and so on.

White guys unite. White broads, go make us a sandwich.

Use of the word "cuckservative" is an automatic point deduction.
Most people just stop reading at that point.


I see Erickson even has Cruzzers distancing themselves.

Actually, I think if the NeverTrump crowd wanted that epithet for a given person, said person has King's X.

Or something.

Rhythm and Balls said...

It's a good thing we've got VDH to stand up for all the indignities faced by white Americans. Slavery, jim crow, segregation, lynchings and now this: Objective, non-glorifying terms of reference. Oh, the horror. Someone call the U.N. Human Rights Commission. This is worse than internment, concentration camps, redlining, and the Trail of Tears combined! Terms that were less than fawning were used in reference to certain whites and "my people" was used to describe blacks. Will these people ever know their place? (i.e. "beneath whites")

Thanks for the sense of perspective, people. It's always good to know the point at which bloated pride and easily wounded egos warp into something psychologically unrecognizable. Time to call WLM (White lives matter) or David Duke or something.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Lol, look no further...

When the jug-eared Messiah took office, I said he'd set back race relations 40 years. I think he may have set it back to the antebellum era, and wouldn't be surprised to see mini-civil wars break out.

That's it, Windbag. Time to put on your manacles and get chained or roped to a tree until the man cuts you down. You thought a mere twelve hours of unpaid labor was enough today? Fifty lashes!

You guys belong in a fucking insane asylum. And all this while your #1 action in the legislatures is to find ways to keep black people from voting. What an embarrassment.

Amartel said...

You mean the "by the way it's not only a white tribe" thing?
Didn't mean it was a White Tribe, just a whitish tribe.
That's just great. What a salesman you are.
You do realize that it has been mainly whites, with the assistance of a few crony minorities like Sharpton, Jackson, feminists, etc., who have fucked this country over for over a century all while reaping the profits they've grifted off everyone else while doing nothing, nothing, nothing to improve any of the various crises they've identified. In fact, they've made them worse. Progressivism is a White Thing. Imported from Europe. Spread to nations around the world to suck them dry of vitality.
So please don't talk about the white or whitish tribe because I want nothing to do with it, nor with any other faux racial tribe of political convenience.
I think/hope what you're yearning for is the same thing most sensible people want: a vibrant economy, honest, transparent, accountable government, rule of law, OUR constitution (not some overly and unnecessarily complicated EU "constitution"). That's not just a white thing.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Of course there is. It's just that it's so subdivided. There's Catholics, KKKers, Jews, Micks, Eyeties, Squareheads, Polacks, Dutchmen (as opposed to Dutch men), white Hispanics, and so on.

White guys unite.


They already did, Dilbert. That's what race relations was all about 1620 - 1964.

Did you ever stop to think that blacks wouldn't have formed a vocal bloc unto themselves if the system hadn't forced that upon them and relative privilege upon everyone else? Just because Obama is annoying and doesn't always take a joke well doesn't mean that your strange ideas of race relations and its history/progress bear any resemblance to reality. The paranoia dripping from these sentiments is stunning. At some point, they're just going to have to coin a phrase: White paranoia.

As a fellow so-called white person, please stop embarrassing me like this. You guys are as bad as (well, worse, really) the most resentful black Americans.

Rhythm and Balls said...

The Romans did that. They thought that their culture was so superior that they could withstand the attack of the tribes massed on their borders. They could not.

There is less undocumented immigration under Obama than there was under Bush and I'll bet there will be more under his successor.

But that's Obama. He inherits and acts on white insecurities and paranoia more thoroughly than whites themselves!

edutcher said...

Rhythm and Balls said...

They already did, Dilbert. That's what race relations was all about 1620 - 1964.

Nice to see somebody missed the last 400 years.

Rhythm and Balls said...

It is not hood culture. It is not hip hop culture. It is not Latino culture.

Seriously?

Well, I'd be willing to grant you two out of three as long as you're willing to denounce the very white WILD WILD WEST as "not of our culture," and every other wacko-white fruitcake from the Whiskey rebels and Shay's rebels to these rednecks who recently occupied public land in Oregon.

But hip hop is as American as it gets. In the day you'd have said jazz was un-American. Jazz is as uniquely American a genre of music as they come. Rock n' Roll too - wouldn't have come about absent a fusion between Irish-American country bluegrass and Negro blues.

But hip hop takes it a step beyond. Unabashedly capitalistic, materialist, narcissistic (just like that red-blooded and orange-haired American, Trump) and violent. And you know what Justice Scalia said about violence in America. It's part of our cultural DNA. (He said this while refusing to label violent video games, if i'm not mistaken).

So get all those white suburban kids to spend their dollars on all that violent, self-glorifying, unabashedly capitalistic black hip hop music and maybe I could see your point. But in the meantime, the market has spoken, and it's not speaking cracker language. It's identifying with those beats, those rhythms and those attitudes of unwillingness to take a shot in the back by an overzealous cop from another community lying down.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Nice to see somebody missed the last 400 years.

So what are you saying? That not being suspected as a biological inferior, fit only for forced labor and/or concubinage by one of your racial "betters", wasn't a heck of a lot of privilege to perpetuate and build upon generation by generation?

Hell, sign me up, then. You're willing to be an actual slave and/or a concubine in order to prove how things really weren't that bad or long-lasting! Well, if you insist, ed! I love it when you teach by example.

Rhythm and Balls said...

You know the one that Obama and Hillary said didn't build the country.

I think you're confusing this with something Elizabeth Warren said, but no matter. Did you know black slave labor was used to build the White House? The freaking White House! What do you think of that? Pretty ironic, to say the least. But not worth acknowledging or feeling the least bit sheepish about, I suppose.

How much less capital do you think America would have lacked in its post-industrial head-start had there not been centuries of forced labor in the South? Come on. Sure, much of it destroyed by the Civil War but that's a hell of a lot of wealth built by others' forced hands nonetheless. I'm sure economic historians can easily put a dollar amount on that, and it's far from trivial. And much further from belittling than a misquoted statement about how infrastructure of all sorts (security/policing, transportation, etc.) makes building a business here a bit easier and less costly than doing it in places like The Libertarian's Paradise of Somalia.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Here's the problem. Whites were only part of any "tribe" in the sense that they were safe from forced labor and concubinage - or being kidnapped and stolen of "papers" proving their freedom.

In all other respects, they still hearkened back to their national, natural tribes: German, Irish, Anglo, etc., etc., etc.

It's a fucking canard to say that those people were "united" into a larger tribe on the basis of any other feature than what blacks lacked.

So no one gives anyone crap about being "proud" of an actual, real culture like those from which they came. And no, a guy with a paintbrush capturing the more idyllic aspects of American life is not a culture.

But to say that all those Anglos, German-Americans, Irish-Americans, Poles and the rest who followed were ever united culturally around anything resembling something other than a "race" is fucking hogwash. They didn't even have a common religion and still resisted opening the White House to one of the "newcomers/interlopers" up until 1960.

bagoh20 said...

White is not a tribe. Never has been - never will be. Of all the thousands of tribes that have ever existed where is one with any remaining power? What tribe has ever survived an encounter with the greater world and not succumbed to it? Tribalism is failure, disappointment and eventually extinction. Civilization is man's ascendancy out of tribalism and its ugly attachment to something unearned, stagnant, and limiting. Maybe you're looking for a chief or a king.

With all due respect, I've done nothing to earn inclusion in your tribe, so count me as one of the "others".

Rhythm and Balls said...

What Bags said - especially the first part, but with the emphasis on the idea that trying to make a skin color alone into its own tribe is super-duper ridiculous.

Tribes will exist, because a common language and shared history is something that no globalist or Wall Street banker can erase away. Did you know that there are various stock exchanges and currencies around the world, Bags? Well, no shit!

But whether tribes will ever be stronger than what determines the course of civilization - whether that's wars of the sort the neocons like, global finance or anything else, including ideologies or less secular religions, is an open question.

Where these forces improve upon what the tribe offers, they will win out. Where they don't, the won't. Hence the dissolution of the USSR into its constituent tribes. whereas with a possibly superior ideology in the U.S. tribes will probably continue to melt away.

bagoh20 said...

Even the smallest nations are bigger than tribes. The few nations that are run anything like tribes are the worst in every way: North Korea, Iran, and among the ever-changing musical chairs on the African continent. Tribalism is the Chicago Cubs of human affiliation, but hey, this could finally be the year.

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

"There is less undocumented immigration under Obama than there was under Bush and I'll bet there will be more under his successor. "

Undoubtedly, because a lousy economy that can't create jobs as fast as workers come of age is is not exactly a magnet for people. It's also proof that we don't need a bigger stick or a wall to stop illegal immigration. We just need to stop laying out the carrots like Elmer Fudd.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Oh, you've got answers for everything, don't you? Just like that other "trust-me-as-president-because-I'm-a-businessman" guy.

chickelit said...

Amartel said...You're actually repelling potential voters.

Trump has been remarkably silent on the "Black Lives Matter" issue. His most ardent supporters are a different story. Not so with both Bernie and Hillary. When asked point blank: "Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter" at an early televised debate, both went out of their way to emphasize that black lives matter more than all lives. If you missed this, go look it up and watch it for yourself. The Democratic Party is the only party pandering to blacks in the usual tribal fashion.

bagoh20 answered R&B regarding illegal immigration: Undoubtedly, because a lousy economy that can't create jobs as fast as workers come of age is is not exactly a magnet for people.

Exactly right, but R&B will come back to point out that the economy is actually pretty healthy and will point to something like the Dow Jones average to support it, thereby rendering his own support for the anti-Wall St. candidate ridiculous.

chickelit said...

Trump has been remarkably silent on the "Black Lives Matter" issue.

Of course, we live in a time when silence is often regard the same as wholehearted support. Witness for example, the panty-wadding after Trump failed to denounce David Duke for the nth time before a crucial election. That of course was was construed as full-on racism.

Rhythm and Balls said...

It's good that we can always count on chicken lit to come up with all the oversimplified black-and-white answers to everything. And bags to follow right up behind him.

Who needs thought when you can have cliches?

Trooper York said...

"I think/hope what you're yearning for is the same thing most sensible people want: a vibrant economy, honest, transparent, accountable government, rule of law, OUR constitution (not some overly and unnecessarily complicated EU "constitution"). That's not just a white thing."

Actually it is pretty much a white thing. President Obama has shown you what his supporters think of the rule of law and the constitution. It was old white men who gave us the Constitution. Nobody else. The was no such development in Africa or Asia or Mexico or Iran or Saudi Arabia anywhere else.

Those are the inconvenient facts that you want to gloss over in your zeal to deny the history of our country.

chickelit said...

Looks there's a brand new cause celebre (celebrity cause?) for all the #NeverTrump Twits: link. This one seems to involve Legal Insurrection directly.

bagoh20 said...

"Oh, you've got answers for everything, don't you?"

Most of it isn't really that hard. For instance, on immigration: you simply ask yourself: why do they come? Is it because there's no wall?

What's harder: building 1000 miles of walls and infrastructure and then manning and maintaining it politically, fiscally and physically, then catching and expelling 11 million people by force, OR just passing some laws that take away the reason they come and stay in the first place?

One plan gets some people all excited, but the other is actually feasible, easy, and saves money rather than costing a fortune. Emotions makes easy things hard.

Trooper York said...

"Black Lives Matters" is all about the normalization of criminal behavior and ending punishment for crimes. Even when the miscreants are caught red handed. They don't want criminals to be incarcerated regardless of what they have done.

Trump has spoken out about Black Lives Matters. Principally when they attacked Bernie Sanders and took his microphone. They have left Trump rallies alone more or less except for isolated instances where they have combined with radical leftists and anarchists. I expect that they will step up their activities as they demonstrate to encourage lawlessness and crime. I expect the police to back down unless they are held to their duty. I hope Trump does not make a mistake and that he does not cancel future rallies because of the threats of these criminals and their supporters.

Crime and criminals and the people who support them will be a big issue in the general election. Of that you should be certain.

Unless of course Ted is the nominee.

Trooper York said...

It is not emotions that make things hard. It is making easy problems hard. The laws already exist. Enforce them. Deport the people who break the law. Don't give us excuses. Don't tell us that it is not fair to enforce the laws. Don't tell us that people from Mexico or ISIS have the right to come to this country and we can't stop them because it is too hard. Too costly.

That's just defeatist bullshit.

chickelit said...

Troop wrote: I hope Trump does not make a mistake and that he does not cancel future rallies because of the threats of these criminals and their supporters.

I still think that Trump took the higher road in Chicago, canceling that rally after Sanders thugs (or Hillary goons dressed as Sanders thugs) disrupted it. It boasted his cause and turnout in the IL primary. I know that you were hoping for confrontation, but I disagree.

bagoh20 said...

"Actually it is pretty much a white thing."

It was also pretty much an English thing, and a male thing, and a slaveholder thing, so that still all pretty much leaves me out. I have a woman's liver, so that's 4 pound of disqualification right there, and there is also that hung-like-a-black man thing I'm cursed with. What if I pay back dues, and go through a hazing ritual? Can I get some kind of waiver.

Rhythm and Balls said...

So we've got the GOPe RINO who says that Messicans aren't coming because our economy somehow got that much worse than one with less than 20% our per capita GDP, and the practical conservative who insists that they're posing a greater danger than ever.

Even though Obama deports them faster and at greater rates than ever before.

Behold right-wing intellectual diversity! Either way, somehow Obama's at the core of whatever problem you choose. Even though they can't even agree what the problem is. Mexicans are either sneaking in (when they're not, at least not permanently) or they aren't because our $53,000 per capita GDP just doesn't compare to their wonderful $10,000 per capita GDP.

Make up the facts you want to suit your own version of insanity, I guess. I guess it's true that there really are many different ways to be wrong.

Fact fail diversity. It's the new Republican way.

chickelit said...

chickelit said...Looks there's a brand new cause celebre (celebrity cause?) for all the #NeverTrump Twits

There seems to be no end to starstruck journalists trying to dig gold out of the Trump campaign. Odd that both so far are young women. I think a pattern is emerging.

chickelit said...

I have a woman's liver, so that's 4 pound of disqualification right there,...

I didn't realize that you were lily livered.

bagoh20 said...

Black Lives Matters is simply pure tribalism and nothing more complicated than that. It's always ugly and stupid. It is what you get when you replace thinking with feelings.

rcocean said...

Maybe you could stop immigration if the elite were for it, but they're dead set against it and the average person is too dumb and lazy to know its in his best interests.

Always bet on the elites - 'cause cause most people are stupid.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Bagz is a biznessman so maybe he can figure out how to get our deplorable $53,000 annual per capita GDP down to the wonderful $10,000 annual per capita GDP of that land of opportunity known as Mexico.

Hey! It works for Trump.

Republicans seem to take a special pride in figuring out new and innovative ways of being wrong. Especially when it's the biznessman who sez so.

bagoh20 said...

"I didn't realize that you were lily livered."

I don't know anything about her, so I assume she was an ass-kicking, pearl-handled, gun-loving leather-wearing bull dike of unusually courage and flat-out meanness... and most definitely white, maybe even albino with undescended testicles.

chickelit said...

rcocean said...
Maybe you could stop immigration if the elite were for it, but they're dead set against it and the average person is too dumb and lazy to know its in his best interests.

Back in the heyday of illegal immigration out here, exactly who were the guys that would drive to Home Depot in vans and pick-up trucks and give them jobs? Those are the "johns" that need to be gone after.

bagoh20 said...

"Bagz is a biznessman so maybe he can figure out how to get our deplorable $53,000 annual per capita GDP down to the wonderful $10,000 annual per capita GDP... "

That's another easy one. Three words: "Feel the Bern"!

bagoh20 said...

I'm suggesting that the laws be changed and enforced so that illegal aliens find an American GDP available to them of zero dollars. Do you think they will come or stay for that?

Rhythm and Balls said...

But Bernie's not the president yet. Those are the current GDP comparisons, and YOU are the liar who said that at 1/5th our own GDP Mexico's must have enough opportunity to account for the halt in net immigration.

Is your company still privately owned or publicly held? Who tolerates lying and obfuscation like that? Where did you learn it? Wall Street?

Even Michael at TOP (who probably makes enough to buy your company tomorrow and strip it and sell it off forthwith) knows to stop lying when I call him out this starkly - with his/YOUR own words.

And you wonder why no one cares about you and your supposed rich people problems in the voting booth. Because you're a damn liar.

Granted, this must be an especially disillusioning year for you. But still, "Pathological Liar" is not the description you want to put after the description of your title in the company.

Geez, what a douche.

bagoh20 said...

Ritmo, you used to be smarter back in the day. What happened? Is it the ever-increasing strength of the weed these days?

You said that immigration slowed down because Obama is tougher on them, and I said it was because the economy isn't as inviting as it has been in the past. You think I'm just lying about that, huh? So you think Mexicans believe that Obama is a tough-on-immigrants President do ya? Have you ever talked to an illegal immigrant about this stuff, or do you have pretend conversations with some guy called Panama Red?

Trooper York said...

Well I can never be English but otherwise it works for me.

bagoh20 said...

The U.S. GDP in 2007 = $49,060 = 56,015 in 2014 dollars.

The U.S. GDP in 2014 = $50,456.

Hey, Obama really is doing what he can to stop the flow.

bagoh20 said...

"Geez, what a douche"

That's a term of honor in this place. Show respect.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Arithmetic that might not come so easy to some people:

$10,000 <<<<<<<<<< $49,060 < $50,456 < $56,015.

Yep. Those Mexicans are so fickle that they would never immigrate for anything less than 5.6 times their wage! None of this piddly 5 times richer a country chump change.

You are an embarrassment. And a disgrace.

Your antics might impress parents who raised you in a log cabin on a dirt floor, (or whatever low bar in life you actually started out with), but that doesn't give you any insight into the mind of a much poorer Mexican, apparently.

Keep smoking that California weed. It's much stronger than anything anyone would bother to get elsewhere.

Bags lies to his customers much better than he could to all the women who could never stand to settle down with him.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Actually, I'm starting to doubt whether Bagzis rags-to-riches story is even true. Maybe he made up, like Gatsby or something - to add to his phony "mystique".

Maybe one day he'll even get his own line of cologne, going so far as to sell it in ads where he shows off his hairy chest while rolling around on upholstered soft leather.

"Bullshit," by Bags of H20. Now offered at fine retailers (like Trump's Macy's) near you...

Bullshit, by Bags of H20. Or, how I became everything I'm not, through image alone.

chickelit said...

Rhythm and Balls wrote...Actually, I'm starting to doubt whether Bagzis rags-to-riches story is even true.

"Why, boys, when I was seventeen I walked into jungle and when I was twenty-one I walked out. [He laughs] and by God I was rich!" ~Arthur Miller's "Death Of A Salesman"

BTW, I just a new post up. Cheers!

bagoh20 said...

I do market a skin cream for the discerning gentleman:

Bag's For Skin: When a good tip is all you need.

Rhythm and Balls said...

So you're telling me that you put snake oil all over the tip of your pee-pee, basically.

chickelit said...

That could be a ladies' facial cream, bags.

bagoh20 said...

"$10,000 <<<<<<<<<< $49,060 < $50,456 < $56,015."

But your claim was that Obama discouraged immigration by being tough, and I suggested it was more a weakness in the job market. It may surprise you, but illegal immigrants don't often make 50 grand when they cross the border. They get those trickle down jobs from others doing well. You know, the economics you don't believe actually happen.

William said...

In Tim Coogan's "History of Ireland in the 20 Century", he points out that if you joined the IRA during "the troubles", you were six times more likely to kill another IRA member as a Black and Tan. It was a faction of the IRA that killed Michael Collins. The Irish theory of history is that it's all England's fault, and, for sure, the blokes have done their share, but the Irish are a resourceful enough people to inflict quite a lot of misery on each other. The English had nothing to do with the Magdalene laundries...........That's what people do. Hurt each other. England was never colonized, but the working class there still felt resentful. As they should. They were despised by the proper folk and screwed over in quite a number of ways.....The first culture war happened in Bismarck's Germany. It wasn't between hippies and bikers......When I was growing up, there was still some conflict in the Italian neighborhoods between the Calabrese, the Sicilians, and the Neapolitans......If there were no non whites in America, I'm not betting the country would be all that peaceful.

bagoh20 said...

"That could be a ladies' facial cream, bags."

I see your internet skills clearly have taken you far and wide to forbidden lands.

I gotta go now, my ol'lady thinks I'm talking to some hot chick. Little does she know it's much much worse.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Yeah, you "suggested". Because you don't know a fucking fact to save your life and just make up shit instead. Like somehow America's five times greater per capita wealth was suddenly so much comparatively worse than Mexico's. I guess you figured that one out by noting how many Americans were moving to Mexico for the better opportunity.

You just don't make sense or have a fucking clue. You lie to yourself like only someone with no soul can do. I wonder if competitively telling the biggest lie you could get away with would provide you the sort of rush that others would only get from a large dose of heroin.

You just seem to get pleasure from lying.

bagoh20 said...

" there was still some conflict in the Italian neighborhoods between the Calabrese, the Sicilians, and the Neapolitans..."

Wine, Bread, and Ice Cream? I'd expect a party to break out.

bagoh20 said...

Ritmo, you're adorable when you get all fussy and start throwing stuff. It's funny how you get confused about who you are from website to website, and month to month. Just fucking adorable. Cute as a button.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Yep, change the subject when you get called out. How about all them 'Muricans moving to Mexico for the incredible economic opportunity?

It's midnight locally. I reckon you start concocting more lies the later it gets in the evening, just out of habit. So you have lies at the ready to say to the lady laying next to you in the morning.

Rhythm and Balls said...

The dog is a man's best friend. No barking about what a liar he is.

Bags prefers animals to people, you know. Because they don't speak enough English to pick up on all his lies.

And people prefer animals to Bags. It's mutual.

chickelit said...

I see your internet skills clearly have taken you far and wide to forbidden lands.

Hey, I'm just trying to lighten my load (unlike you).

'Night

Guildofcannonballs said...

"The fact is that is how the spoils are divided these days."

Yeah the progressive whites have suffered so because Obama gave those trillions to his black tribes. I hear Clarence Thomas is Obama's favorite Justice too. You know how THOSE people think in simplistic idiotic antiquated terms, unlike us whites.

Are gays doing well?

What conclusion can be drawn about Obama from this?

In truth, as Marion Barry liked to show, it was racist white lib/leftists that discriminated against blacks by not treating them as equals in divvying up the spoils of crony-ism, but to act as though crony-ism is a tribal thing is proven wrong every moment of every day myriad wayswise.

My God, the Democratic Party is made up of groups that hate each other because of their tribalism YET STILL FORM A CARTEL STRONG ENOUGH TO WIN.

They trust each other, NAMBLA and SPLC, to donate to the same people when otherwise they would be at war. Very inter-tribal.

Gays and Lesbians traditionally have been separate tribes: they are now one.

The deeper you look the more profound the reconciliation has been among the Left tribes when labeling by other than ideology.

Guildofcannonballs said...

":..you get confused about who you are from website to website, and month to month."

I am that way, not happy about it, but trying to accept and mitigate my expectations that it should be different.

Of course shutting my keyboard down would help to stop proving myself a fool, but at what cost? Is my mere ego worth potentially forgoing a better alternative? What if a type of learning that could lead to wisdom is fulfilled when saying things later to be revealed as naive or bigoted or unskilled, such as making/watching shitty movies like Reefer Madness?

What if my only online fundamental is all is NOT vanity concluding in multitudes of confused, blotched bullshit trying to prove the null set?

deborah said...

"My tribe thinks your tribe is too tribal."

A mere tribiality.

The natives were restless last night. Ritmo accusing Bago of being a fake, Bago sounding like Chip at one point. Then there was the time Ritmo sounded like Titus. AM I THE ONLY REAL PERSON HERE?!?

Trooper York said...

No debbie. You are as fake as they come.

Sorry. The truth hurts I know.

But the truth shall set you free.

deborah said...

That will leave a mark.