I had an exchange with ace commenter Amartel. I said:
If Trump is going to write off anybody it should be the far right conservative intelligentsia and the neocons. There are plenty of hard right alt cons like me or guys like Sixty who will support him.
The Mark Levins and Glen Becks will never warm to him because they can not deal with the fans following somebody before them. They think they are God and that Trump is a false idol that Edward G Robinson whipped up to fool the masses that they have been feeding off of all of these years.
The pivot he is making in the general will get him a lot more votes than kowtowing to the hard right. The hard right people will follow him. The hard right opinion makers will be crying in their beer."
Levin and Rush and Beck and Coutler and O'Reilly and Hannity and Savage are basically hucksters. They are selling a product. Books, radio shows or tv shows. Some of them are more honest about it than others. Rush is by far the smartest of them. He knows that it foolish to dis Trump and pick him as the hill to die on. He recognizes a huckster with a great rap. I don't deny that Mark Levin is a principled guy at times but he is also ultimately a media huckster just like all the rest. He knows what Trump is and he recognizes elements of himself in it. If he doesn't he is foolish. I don't think he is a fool.
As Michael Jordon famously said "Even Republicans buy sneakers." You don't need to insult and denigrate your audience or a large segment of your potential audience. That is what the fools at NRO and the Weekly Standard are doing. Same with RedState and HotAir and Ace of Spades. Trump is a phenomena. A shooting star. He might go all the way. He might not. But you shouldn't stake everything on defeating him. Because you sure didn't do that on defeating Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. Why is that?
It is because Trump is a threat to your rice bowl. To your audience. Hillary is not. You make money off of Hillary. Trump steals your fans and turns them against you. It is that simple.
Listen my eyes are wide open about Trump. That is why I call him a douche bag. But you know what. Ted Cruz is an even bigger douche bag. A dishonest lying lawyer. He has done shady stuff over and over in this campaign. Pretty much everyone who has to work with him has a visceral loathing for him. So to think he can appeal to enough people to get elected is a joke.
You can certainly feel Trump will be a horrible President. Fair enough. I think Teddy would be much worse. I didn't think that before I got to know him. Like DBQ said I said I would vote for him if Trump lost. But he has squandered that goodwill. At least with me. He did it with most Trump supporters. I don't think he comes back from that.
18 comments:
Troop, I know you mean well. But a lot of us see Trump as a train wreck. If it makes you feel better to say everyone opposed to him are just sell out hucksters, okay. Some are. But you are mostly wrong. Most actually believe what they are saying.
Do I think Trump will be trounced in the general? Who knows for sure, but probably. He has alienated too many voters to be a shoe in. The only hope is Hillary has alienated almost as many.
I am not a #NeverTrump. I am a #NeverHillary.
Hey, if Trump wins and turns out to be great, I will be pleasantly surprised. My guess is Trump (assuming he won) would pander for approval and his opinions will shift as public opinion shifts. Better than Hillary? A bit. But if he appoints a few more moderate justices to the supreme court, what difference does it make? Reagan knew what he wanted and knew what being a conservative was all about. GWB didn't and as a result missed a hell of a lot of opportunities.
The GOPe have written this election off. They will wait for 2020. They hate the Cruz wing, so they will make sure Donald takes the nomination (and to be fair if he goes into the convention with momentum it will be difficult to stop him). Then he will start building what support he can and take on Hillary. If he loses, no big deal. They dodged a full riot and wait for 2020.
Always an inducement.
The issue of either the disenfranchised and the dispossessed get some kind of attention or Trump is the last peaceful attempt at restoring the country is probably for real.
There's a lot of anger out in the country from people who were raised to think there would be a decent job available for them to feed and house their family and a good education for their kids and a stable, moral society in which to live. The Uni-Party has given them none of that.
Now Cruz' big selling point has been not that he will win or can win, but that he is the One True Conservative; the idea apparently being it's better to lose with a True Conservative and a guy who talks a good game than to win with a pragmatist who will fight back. This I have never been able to comprehend.
The issue of his being an outsider has been shot to Hell, but people still seem to push it and, deny though some here do, I really do believe they do see him as some sort of Messiah whop will usher in the kind of world they want. Rabel and DBQ have picked up on this idea he's running for Preacher In Chief who will cleanse us of our sins. sounds like somebody else, don't it? One of the reasons I was always a little skeptical of him.
And, no, I really don't buy the idea Donald Trump is a douchebag. I think he is smart enough to understand that people don't want a lot of high-flown nonsense, but they'll appreciate it if somebody addresses them in plain language and tells them exactly what he'll do. And they like somebody who fights back when he's wronged.
And, yeah, I think he's more of a Conservative than a lot of people think and I think he's one Hell of a lot better Conservative than Cruz.
This will be another of the bones of contention I have with Troop (like the ending of "The Searchers" (don't ask)), but what I think we have is somebody who's been able to rise as high as he could in this country and appreciates it and he wants to give something back.
Evi L. Bloggerlady said...
Do I think Trump will be trounced in the general? Who knows for sure, but probably. He has alienated too many voters to be a shoe in.
Most people aren't even paying attention yet. It's April, not October.
Hey, if Trump wins and turns out to be great, I will be pleasantly surprised. My guess is Trump (assuming he won) would pander for approval and his opinions will shift as public opinion shifts. Better than Hillary? A bit.
But if he appoints a few more moderate justices to the supreme court, what difference does it make? Reagan knew what he wanted and knew what being a conservative was all about.
He did, huh?
He gave us Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy.
The GOPe have written this election off
Hardly. They can't, control of the Senate is on the line (maybe the House, depending on how things go in Cleveland). Losing control of either house means they probably don't get it back for quite a while, given how they've betrayed people's trust. And that's where the goodies are.
They're scared to death Trump will run like a third party candidate and will cut them adrift the way Barry did 4 years ago. And now they know they can't trust Cruz. A Whig candidate would mean the dissolution of the party the way the Whigs did 160 years ago (portentous, huh?).
Some of the old geezers remember how long it was between 1932 and 1994 (or '80 if we're talking Senate) and those are the stakes. They've tried everything and none of it has worked. Now comes the deal with Trump.
It should be interesting.
I think Trump is about Trump. That does not mean he is a total douchebag, say like Hillary is. He has demonstrated he can be a douchebag, but he has also demonstrated some admirable qualities.
I do not get ed's thing about Cruz. Cruz certainly has douche qualities too, but he is a conservative. I know what Cruz is about politically. But if you think Trump is the pragmatist who will fight back, ok. Let's see it. I am realistic to recognize that either Trump or Cruz have a hell of a hill to climb to unify the party to fight back in the general.
Rush is trying to rationalize the steal. He's trying to get his audience of millions to accept the unacceptable: that the delegates take priority over the voters in deciding who the nominee will be. But why is he doing this? It's a softening up operation. He knows there will be an uproar when the actual steal goes down at the convention. His whole purpose in defending the insiders' corrupt delegate game is to sow enough doubt in Trump supporters - "We wuz robbed but it wasn't REALLY robbery" - that after a period of outrage they will come to their senses, return to the GOP and support whoever it foists on them because WE MUST STOP HILLARY!
In other words Rush's longterm goal is anyone but Hillary. Plus, he doesn't like Trump.
I happen to think he's dead wrong and a steal will not only not be forgiven it will be the death of the GOP. But I've been plenty wrong about politics before....so who knows?
Churchill said that he was wrong about half of the stuff he thought he knew, but the trouble was he didn't know which half. There are those who would say that the percentage of his wrong decisions was much higher than half, but it's a sure thing that it was a lower percentage than such contemporaries as Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini.......The question isn't whether Trump is right about most things. The question is whether he's right about more things than Cruz. I'd pick Trump over Cruz even though Trump has said some stupid and obnoxious things.......Trump has succeeded in the NY real estate market. As a general rule, that's not an area where the developmentally challenged succeed. Trump is a lot smarter than he looks. Cruz looks plenty smart, and he knows how to score debating points, but he's less successful than he looks. Plus there's something off putting about his personality. Even when Trump is being obnoxious he's more likable than Cruz.....I'd choose Trump over Cruz, but he's not a safe choice. Trump will screw a lot of things up, but less than Hillary or Cruz. Anyway, his mishaps will be more entertaining to watch than those of Hillary or Cruz.
Evi L. Bloggerlady said...
I think Trump is about Trump. That does not mean he is a total douchebag, say like Hillary is. He has demonstrated he can be a douchebag, but he has also demonstrated some admirable qualities.
OK, we'll assume you're right about Trump. The guy's turning 70 this year. Maybe part of being about Trump is he'd like to be remembered for something, y'know - legacy.
What would be better than going down in history as the second Reagan? Lots of guys have been wooed by the same thing.
And to really be the idol of millions, the guy who brought America back?
I do not get ed's thing about Cruz. Cruz certainly has douche qualities too, but he is a conservative. I know what Cruz is about politically.
I don't think so. I looked at his first year voting record. I read the rationales.
And they just don't ring true. There's also the manner of how he showboated his way through the last 2 years. A lot of that stuff was for the benefit of the media IMO. Guys who were more effective and every bit as Conservative (more, really) didn't make a point of alienating everybody in the Senate - Conservatives included.
Saw a piece that said Cruz was out as the Senate Conservatives' choice for SCUS. Now they'd rather Mike Lee. I think They've had enough of him and they're the people who know him best.
William said...
I'd choose Trump over Cruz, but he's not a safe choice
Safe was Bush 41 because Reagan had gotten the country back on track.
these are not safe times.
Trump will win the general going away. Hillary stands no chance. Everybody hates her, even the Democrat base, which will migrate to Trump in a heartbeat.
You will not find anyone sane who is more conservative than I am. In high school I volunteered to work on Goldwater's campaign. I always go to and for the conservative who is most electable. It isn't Cruz this year. He's not electable. Maybe down the road. This isn't the year for ideological purity tests. We need someone unafraid of and uncowed by the media who will kick butt. That's Trump.
Troop, I rarely make editorial comments about style, but I suggest (insist) that you pull back this post and fix the font/bolding/quotes to more accurately reflect the exchange. As it reads now, it looks like you made a comment and then Amartel responded in full with the rest. I want the record to show who said what. I can help you do this if you can't figure it out.
Someone wrote:
As Michael Jordon famously said "Even Republicans buy sneakers." You don't need to insult and denigrate your audience or a large segment of your potential audience. That is what the fools at NRO and the Weekly Standard are doing. Same with RedState and HotAir and Ace of Spades. Trump is a phenomena. A shooting star. He might go all the way. He might not. But you shouldn't stake everything on defeating him. Because you sure didn't do that on defeating Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. Why is that? It is because Trump is a threat to your rice bowl. To your audience. Hillary is not. You make money off of Hillary. Trump steals your fans and turns them against you. It is that simple.
The part I highlighted is first rate and deserves national discussion right now on its merits. It basically what turned me against #nevertrumpers in a very personal way.
It is my sincere belief that the "#nevertrumper" movement is predicated on the belief that Trump=Hitler meme.
A #NeverHitler political movement is a rational response. A "NeverTrump" response is only rational (especially now) if you believe that Trump is an American populist Hitler. He's not.
/Godwin
@G Joubert: I think your 11:19 comment is spot-on.
ricpic wroye: In other words Rush's longterm goal is anyone but Hillary. Plus, he doesn't like Trump.
I happen to think he's dead wrong and a steal will not only not be forgiven it will be the death of the GOP. But I've been plenty wrong about politics before....so who knows?
To a crossover Dem voter, voting for Trump (and a Trump win) will weaken Limbaugh, Beck, et al.; a vote for Hillary (and a Hillary win) will strengthen Limbaugh, Beck, et al. They should look at it that way.
Evi I respect your opinion. There are many valid reasons to oppose Trump. There are no valid reasons for the vitriol spewed at him and his supporters. You didn't see them do that to Hillary. Not even close.
You see Trump threatens their livelihood. Savage and Hannity decided to ride on the train. Others did not.
You see my cynical New York Values tells me these guys are opportunists for all their protestations of ideological purity or being for the "folks."
If you don't believe ask Megyn Kelly.
It is nice to have a discussion about Trump vs Cruz without all the name calling (Trumpkins etc) and snotty denigrating comments about how stupid anyone who supports Trump must be. I also see the flaws in Trump. No one is perfect. However, I feel that we need a change from the same old same old RINO and GOPe who claim to be on our side but never follow through.
If anyone has more to lose if a Trump administration goes bad than Trump himself, I don't know who it would be. Trump has it all on the line...his businesses, his families futures and along with it the future of America. If America does well, becomes "great again" that rising tide will lift all ships.
People say, but but but....Trump isn't a "real" conservative and Cruz is a true blue conservative. I say so what? What has the conservative movement done to make anything better? Besides....define Conservative. Just throwing the term around means nothing without a definition.
But....let me propose this. IF Cruz is a true blue conservative and is not willing to compromise his conservative-ness, this is a much worse scenario than a person who has some conservative stances but is willing to bend to accomplish the larger goal.
Being a fanatic about anything...political principles or religious principles (and I think that Cruz is a fanatic evangelical about both or at least pretends to be) is counterproductive. It assures that nothing will get done and that people will not be able to work with each other. Mexican stand off....if you will
Trump may be not 100% conservative and that is a GOOD thing. I consider myself conservative....in some things. Laissez-faire about most other things and just don't give a eff about others. You prioritize the things that NEED to get done and sometimes those don't meet the litmus test that the Cruz worshipers want to administer. Trump is a prioritizer, a producer and can make the deals that are important.
So instead of a stalemate or the same caving cowards who want to protect their "rice bowls" I want to see someone get into the temple and kick over the money changer's tables. Because if we don't....we are doomed to just continue to trudge down this path into a third world hell hole of a country and be crushed under an ever more totalitarian government.
If it still doesn't work....well.....at least we do have another recourse or two. I would prefer to try the remedy at the ballot box before we all resort to the ammo box.
Megyn Kelly is all about Megyn Kelly. Ask her first husband about that.
In a lot of ways she is a lot like Trump. I can't believe he is doing an interview with her, but maybe they have an understanding. I doubt it, though.
Roger Simon is saying Trump has this fish in the boat. He may be right if things go big for him today and he has momentum into Indiana and California.
His greatest media triumph...
I think it might be hers. She'll be sitting pretty as teacher's pet if he is elected.
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