Friday, January 22, 2016

Is it easier to know who and what you don't like?

Conservative magazine National Review is publishing a special edition called "Against Trump". They enlisted over a dozen notable conservatives to write it. Here are some excerpts from their online introduction to the edition, not from the special edition itself.


[T]rump’s politics are those of an averagely well-informed businessman: Washington is full of problems; I am a problem-solver; let me at them. But if you have no familiarity with the relevant details and the levers of power, and no clear principles to guide you, you will, like most tenderfeet, get rolled. Especially if you are, at least by all outward indications, the most poll-obsessed politician in all of American history. Trump has shown no interest in limiting government, in reforming entitlements, or in the Constitution. He floats the idea of massive new taxes on imported goods and threatens to retaliate against companies that do too much manufacturing overseas for his taste. His obsession is with “winning,” regardless of the means — a spirit that is anathema to the ordered liberty that conservatives hold dear and that depends for its preservation on limits on government power. The Tea Party represented a revival of an understanding of American greatness in these terms, an understanding to which Trump is tone-deaf at best and implicitly hostile at worst. He appears to believe that the administrative state merely needs a new master, rather than a new dispensation that cuts it down to size and curtails its power.
It is unpopular to say in the year of the “outsider,” but it is not a recommendation that Trump has never held public office. Since 1984, when Jesse Jackson ran for president with no credential other than a great flow of words, both parties have been infested by candidates who have treated the presidency as an entry-level position. They are the excrescences of instant-hit media culture. The burdens and intricacies of leadership are special; experience in other fields is not transferable. That is why all American presidents have been politicians, or generals. Any candidate can promise the moon. But politicians have records of success, failure, or plain backsliding by which their promises may be judged. Trump can try to make his blankness a virtue by calling it a kind of innocence. But he is like a man with no credit history applying for a mortgage — or, in this case, applying to manage a $3.8 trillion budget and the most fearsome military on earth.
Trump’s record as a businessman is hardly a recommendation for the highest office in the land. For all his success, Trump inherited a real-estate fortune from his father. Few of us will ever have the experience, as Trump did, of having Daddy-O bail out our struggling enterprise with an illegal loan in the form of casino chips. Trump’s primary work long ago became less about building anything than about branding himself and tending to his celebrity through a variety of entertainment ventures, from WWE to his reality-TV show, The Apprentice. His business record reflects the often dubious norms of the milieu: using eminent domain to condemn the property of others; buying the good graces of politicians — including many Democrats — with donations.
Trump has gotten far in the GOP race on a brash manner, buffed over decades in New York tabloid culture. His refusal to back down from any gaffe, no matter how grotesque, suggests a healthy impertinence in the face of postmodern PC (although the insults he hurls at anyone who crosses him also speak to a pettiness and lack of basic civility). His promise to make America great again recalls the populism of Andrew Jackson. But Jackson was an actual warrior; and President Jackson made many mistakes. Without Jackson’s scars, what is Trump’s rhetoric but show and strut? If Trump were to become the president, the Republican nominee, or even a failed candidate with strong conservative support, what would that say about conservatives? The movement that ground down the Soviet Union and took the shine, at least temporarily, off socialism would have fallen in behind a huckster. The movement concerned with such “permanent things” as constitutional government, marriage, and the right to life would have become a claque for a Twitter feed.
Trump nevertheless offers a valuable warning for the Republican party. If responsible men irresponsibly ignore an issue as important as immigration, it will be taken up by the reckless. If they cannot explain their Beltway maneuvers — worse, if their maneuvering is indefensible — they will be rejected by their own voters. If they cannot advance a compelling working-class agenda, the legitimate anxieties and discontents of blue-collar voters will be exploited by demagogues. We sympathize with many of the complaints of Trump supporters about the GOP, but that doesn’t make the mogul any less flawed a vessel for them. Some conservatives have made it their business to make excuses for Trump and duly get pats on the head from him. Count us out. Donald Trump is a menace to American conservatism who would take the work of generations and trample it underfoot in behalf of a populism as heedless and crude as the Donald himself.

79 comments:

AllenS said...

Panic sets in.

bagoh20 said...

But is it true? I think it mostly is. The fake conservative establishment is now moving to him just to be a "winner", like they do, but real conservatives, sticking to the principles that the establishment has abandoned, can only hope the electorate won't be played again with emotional appeals, but maybe that's too much to expect. There is little to respect about the popular in our modern culture, but being a democracy, that's what rules the day.


bagoh20 said...

I'm a little lost on what exactly Trump boosters are expecting him to do as President that's different considering he's a pragmatist who loves to make deals always with the goal of making himself look good. Does anyone deny that what he is?

AllenS said...

I dunno, bags, maybe not be a politician. I could name other stuff, but not being a politician would be a nice start.

chickelit said...

I think NR's position negates American politics. I wish them ill.

bagoh20 said...

He's changed most of his positions 180 degrees to win this, including the ones people are so enamored with. Why won't he change them again after he no longer needs them. It's clear he's not a true believer. I think that's what we hate about politicians on the right these days.

chickelit said...

I imagine a Trump presidency as one being led by a real executive. Trump is going to assemble teams as he would a large corporation. It will celebrate competence. Trump isn't going to micromanage this like Obama tries to do.

Trump would be one of the most closely watched and scrutinized Presidents ever. He will reawaken the press (as already shown) who will hold him accountable. What he most likely will do is start holding unelected federal employees accountable. There may be a few dramatic "you're fired" moments (which I gather people expect from his reality TV persona).

Lem said...

As much as I would like to I can't trust a Casino guy.

Listen to Bags people.

ricpic said...

Trump is an unapologetic nationalist. The establishment conservative crowd, NR, Will, Krauthammer, are EMBARRASSED by unapologetic love of ones own country and ones own people and HORRIFIED at putting America's interests FIRST, above the interests of some bullshit mythical "humanity." I mean what could be more déclassé than looking out for the folks at home?!

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllenS said...

And what are the others going to do? What they are saying now? Or, what they've said previously?

chickelit said...

chickelit said...

Like I tweeted Haz: NR would rather be governed by Harvard graduates than by a Manhattan resident.

AllenS said...

How about, Jeb Bush? Did either George Herbert Walker Bush, or his son George live up to the expectations that they projected to get elected?

There is always going to be a lot of unknown unknowns.

Lem said...

The only thing Trump has said that made me sit up and take notice of him was the border security. That's it.

chickelit said...

Lem said...The only thing Trump has said that made me sit up and take notice of him was the border security. That's it.

Well Lem, at least your priorities are right.

bagoh20 said...

I'd be careful about projecting things on Trump. Ask yourself: is this really what he does, is that what he really values, or am I assuming it because I want to believe it, and he said said it will be great, so it will. I hope you Trumpettes are right, but the closer he gets - the more I feel like Kevin Bacon.

virgil xenophon said...

"The only thing...................................................was border security."

Yeah, Lem, when have any of the true blue, dyed-in-the-wool "principled" conservatives done anything about THAT?? And w.o. that all else is merely re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If we don't fix THAT, it's like the title of Coulters latest book says: "ADIOS AMERICA!" So if that's the ONLY thing Trump accomplishes it will be MORE than enough..

Rabel said...

They fired Coulter, they fired Derbyshire, and they ran off Steyn all for being politically incorrect while giving us regular lectures on the evils of political correctness and liberal fascism.

Their gang rape of Trump pushes me in his direction.

bagoh20 said...

"It's easier to know who and what you don't like.?"

That's definitely the case with me. I like something about every Republican candidate, and I hate something too. I'm not satisfied with the choice at all. They have all changed positions, mostly due to Trump beating them to it by changing all of his first and loudest, and then them seeing that work so well. My ideal candidate would be Trump's Trumpity instincts and experience with Cruz's ideology, intellect, and commitment. I wish Vice President was a more important job.

It looks to me like if Hillary wins the Nom. that Bernie is gonna be mandatory as a running mate if she wants to win, but I'm not so sure about the reverse for Bernie, although she would probably accept it, hoping he dies, and he better watch his back.

bagoh20 said...

Immigration is in decline with more leaving than coming right now. I heard it on MSNBC today, so it must be true. But, if it is, and we are actually having a net outflow of immigrants, does that change the Trumpmania?

I think the wall won't happen, but I also think that changing the incentives is all you have to do - just change some laws. If you can't get anything once you are here, they won't come, and the outflow would be a flood out the door.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I'm really really sick and tired of these self elected know-it- alls who feel that they have some magical litmus test of who is and who is not a conservative.

Who the h3ll do they think they are that they can tell us/me what I should think and decide whether I fit into their narrow category of "conservative"??

Is there some sort of check list or test that if I don't fill in all the correct boxes I am evicted from the inner circle of the good ole boys conservative club?

F*ck em! I don't want to belong to your club anyway and I think I'll join the rival gang that wants to burn down your fancy scmancy elitist stuck up club house. :-)

G Joubert said...

The way eRethuglicans and eDummycrats react to Trump is like deja vu all over again. This same cohort hated Reagan back in the day and said terrible things about him too. Just like Trump, they even made fun of his hair. And then following that, some of them, mostly the eRethuglicans, spent the next 8 years pretending that they never said those things. Just like you guys will do down the road when we have President Trump.

bagoh20 said...

"I think I'll join the rival gang that wants to burn down your fancy scmancy elitist stuck up club house. :-)

I agree completely, but who is that candidate who will burn things down?

Trump: “Let’s get to be a little establishment. We’ve got to get things done folks, OK?”

bagoh20 said...

You know who else hated Reagan?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@ Bagho

Well, if you want to burn down or to be less radical change the establishment it is always easier when you have "inside" people.

Might as well take over the Republican party.....they don't seem to be using it very much lately anyway. It is more cost effective and efficient to do a corporate take over than to start a new corporation from scratch.

rcocean said...

So, they're against Trump.

WHO ARE THEY FOR? Christie? Bush? Rubio? Kasich?

NR didn't run massive attacks on McCain, Romney or Dole. Where's all they bile and hate for McConnell and Ryan?

Yeah, Trump is so awful. Lets just keep things the way they are = NR Conservatism.

rcocean said...

IMO, Cruz/Trump and 100x then the rest of the losers. Rubio is a liar. Bush is a joke. Christie is fat joke. Kasich is a liberal. Carson is a zero.

Maybe NR can get McCain to run again.

Lem said...

NR left out Rush and Levin. Not included in the collection of conservatives they asked to contribute.

Rabel said...

Can we at least agree on who should be the next First Lady.

AllenS said...

Nice, Rabel, real nice.

bagoh20 said...

This is the overarching problem I have with Trump. Ask yourself this:

Would Trump hesitate for a second to be a hero of the left if he thought that was the best play right now?

Or would Trump do whatever it takes to be a winner of any kind. Think reality TV, Casinos, eminent domain, and bankruptcy for a Conservative, a Christian, a Republican.

I think Trump is a Republican right now because it's what he sees as the winning play for Trump. I simply don't think I can can count on him any more than the other candidates, who at least have no history of Clinton support, single payer support, Obama support, etc, etc. He may actually be a conservative now, and would do the right things in power, but you guys would not believe that for a second if he didn't spit in the right faces for you, which is a brand new development. The only thing that makes him a conservative is that he says he is now. This article is mostly correct no matter who wrote it. I don't care if you support Trump, I may have to myself, but do it with open eyes.



bagoh20 said...

Rabel, Yes! No argument.

Lem said...

Iowa and New Hampshire are going to tell us if the Trump phenomenon is real or not.

The word on twitter is that a lot of people who show up to Trump rallies are not even registered voters.

Acid test.

Lem said...

I want to believe. But I need to see something first.

Lem said...

Something more substantial than a trophy wife... no disrespect.

bagoh20 said...

I think Trump will be the nominee, but any other Republican would have a cake walk in the general, because a huge number of Independents and even Dems don't want Hillary or Bernie. What this article says is that a lot of Republican voters don't want Trump either. This election is gonna be fascinating. The big unknowns are who will vote? Who will cross over?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

See....the desire to label people and exclude people is strong.

I don't care about labels. If Trump is a Republican now or he was a Democrat in the past or is or is not a true blue blooded Conservative. All of those labels mean doo squat because people change. People who have been labeled "conservatives" have been stabbing us in the back or worse laying down like whipped puppies when challenged. (freaking wimps)

Label a rock as a piece of granite and it is not likely to change into a diamond, but people do change and they SHOULD change. If you don't change when you get new information or when circumstances have changed then you are dead. Brain dead or really dead.

Is Donald Trump out for himself? Maybe. Maybe he is truly a patriot and loves the country that has made him rich.

My take on it is that Trump does believe the things he says and wants America to do well, instead of sliding down the sh*thole as it is now. When America does well, economically and is a strong secure country. Trump does well, his family does well.....and so do we all. A rising tide lifts all boats. So if someone has a bigger boat than mine, I'm not going to bitch about it as long as all of us rise with a stronger country.

I know that the alternatives that we have been offered in the past were just plain losers. The alternatives that we have now, with a few exceptions are also lying losers as well. The alternatives that have been foisted upon us, have actually not been alternative at all, just more of the same old pablum repackaged and re-labeled.

I'm ready for something new even if it doesn't fit the purity test of the National Review or other self anointed "conservatives". I want something that WORKS. It may not be Donald Trump, but I sure don't see any other alternate choices.

Seriously.....after Obama and with Hillary .... and ISIS...looming in the future....how much worse could it possibly be?

AllenS said...

bags are you worried that Trump when he becomes the POTUS will say: "If you like you're doctor, you can keep your doctor." or "Read my lips, no new taxes."

It's impossible to project what he will do, as with any of them.

Unfortunately, that's the way it is, and always will be.

AllenS said...

Again, let me say this, I want someone this time who isn't a politician. I will accept the consequences of that decision, because a lot about life is nothing but a coin flip.

G Joubert said...

Trump pwns the MSM. That's the most important thing he brings, and no one else can do it. We need that more than anything else right now.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

This election is gonna be fascinating. The big unknowns are who will vote? Who will cross over?

Agreed. The big unknowns instead of the same dosey doe, two step rehearsed dance that we have always had.

The BIG unknowns are what makes people grow and are the challenges we must face. Without the "big unknowns" and people willing to face them, we would all still be huddling in Europe. The west of the US would never have been explored. Man would not have walked on the moon or explored the depths of the oceans.

Every advancement is because people faced the unknown. Sometimes we crash and burn, but we learn from facing the unknowns.

When I was deciding to take the big step of leaving a comfortable, secure and safe job to start my own business, be my own boss in a very competitive business with NO security and no assurance of success....I was waffling back and forth.

My husband, who has been self employed most of his life, gave me the best advice ever.

He said. "You are standing on the edge of the cliff. Either take the leap of faith and jump and don't look back. Or step back from the cliff and stay where you are. DECIDE." I jumped, soared off the cliff and never regretted it.

This is where we are as a country now. We either need to jump and hopefully soar, or continue on the path of decline that we are on now. Face the big unknown. DECIDE.

Rabel said...

The next President will almost certainly be a failure. It's baked in. All those cans Obama has been kicking down the road, his disastrous foreign policies, the economy and the rising deficit, the racial situation he has exacerbated, and the justifiably increasing distrust and hatred of our disgusting political class, Republican and Democrat, make a Reaganesque success almost impossible regardless of which candidate we elect.

The viable choices seem to be Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Clinton and Sanders. I don't think Cruz can win the general unless Clinton is indicted after winning the primaries. He's been demonized by the left and the establishment and to be honest he just doesn't appeal emotionally to a lot of people. Appearances matter. What's left - Rubio and his amnesty or Trump and his troubling political history?

If Trump does win then National Review has done the country a great disservice by poisoning the well.

deborah said...

Once Trump is nominated what will the MSM unleash?

rcocean said...

It'd be funny if after all this drama, Trump gets beaten in SC, NH, and Iowa.

And drops out.

Even Funnier if Jeb then became the nominee.

Leland said...

NR and I have a mutual agreement. They don't listen to me, and I don't listen to them.

Third Coast said...

Bags, I get where you're coming from regarding things Trump has said in the past. My loosely based assumption is that a lot of his statements were Trump saying things he thought he had to say in order to grease the skids in NYC and DC. Mark Steyn has a piece up that I think gets to the heart of what us Trumpkins are feeling and is worth a read.

In contrast to the ebb and flow of eternally shifting multiparty systems, America has a rigid, inflexible two-party choice:

One party is supposed to be the party of big government, the other the party of small government. When the Big Government Party is in power, the government gets bigger, and, when the Small Government Party is in power, the government gets bigger.

One party is supposed to be the party of social liberalism, the other the party of social conservatism. When the Socially Liberal Party is in power, the country gets more liberal, and, when the Socially Conservative Party is in power, the country gets more liberal.

One party is supposed to be the party of foreign-policy doves, the other the party of foreign-policy hawks. When the doves are in power, America loses wars, and, when the hawks are in power, America loses wars.

So much for American conservatism's three-legged stool. "Mainstream" Republican candidates are essentially reduced to the argument: This time it'll be different, I promise.

deborah said...

Palin was a Bill Kristol discovery.

Leland said...

Would Trump hesitate for a second to be a hero of the left if he thought that was the best play right now?

Do you mean like, join the Gang of 8? Probably so. I'm really banking on, if Trump does ride in to save the day for the leftist agenda, his doing it might actually piss people off.

On the other hand, Cruz stands up to block the left's agenda, and he is despised by the GOP.

Meade said...

Counter-Trump: http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/newsdesk/paul-ryan-becoming-counter-trump

bagoh20 said...

Many of the people who are warning about Trump include people you guys respected until Trump came around. They fought the same fights on your side. The principles you cared about were not up for negotiation until Trump. People's history was relevant until Trump, and still is except for Trump's. Flip flopping was a problem unless it's Trump.

Are you sure you want to flip flop yourself on all that just for him? Are all those lifelong Conservatives stupid, wrong, blind to some truth only Trump possesses. These people have been on the same side of things as you have virtually forever, but along comes the new kid and swoon. Wow, that was easy. It reminds me of raising a daughter, and being careful to teach her values, and then trying to talk her out of dating the bad boy. "But he's so dreamy, and he makes me feel good."

Now DBQ, put down that rolling pin. We're all friends here. I'm just discussing politics. No need for violence. And Allen, please drop the wrench. You don't want to have to hide it in the lake. They always find that stuff.

AllenS said...

Don't force me to go out and buy some beer, bags!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Are all those lifelong Conservatives stupid, wrong, blind to some truth only Trump possesses

Define "conservative". What litmus tests of beliefs and positions do we need to pass to be in the club? Seriously. What IS a conservative?

These people have been on the same side of things as you have virtually forever,

I don't think so.

Third Coast said...

Also, how much damage is Trump doing to his brand by running on his immigration stance? He's already lost a lot of business because of his politically incorrect views that "true" conservatives are afraid to even mention. The PGA has taken a tournament away from one of his courses and the British Open authorities have stated they won't be associated with anything Trump. Apparently all those Middle Eastern Muslim golfers were raising quite a stink.

bagoh20 said...

"Define "conservative". What litmus tests of beliefs and positions do we need to pass to be in the club? Seriously. What IS a conservative?"

Now c'mon. You know who. All the people signing on to this article. All the pundits on TV and in newspapers and magazines who have been rightfully attacking leftist policy and tactics for years. You know who they are, and most of them are not hot on the idea of Trump representing them with Hillary's perfume still on his shirt, and videos of him supporting Obama, Obamacare, partial birth abortion, and most other things that both you and them oppose. Call these people whatever label you want, but they have a history of being on the right side of things, does that suddenly mean nothing. To me it matters when I'm trying to learn and decide whose advice is worth listening to, and it's worthwhile to listen to people when you find yourself smitten. You may still, go with it, but you shouldn't suddenly dismiss people just because they don't tell you what you want to hear.

edutcher said...

FWIW someone observed DC is in the 5th stage of grief* with Trump and the 2nd with Cruz.

Looks like they're still in stage 2 in a lot of places wrt Trump. So is George Soros and a bunch of Hollyweird types, including Jane Fonda.

*1 - Denial

2 - Anger

3 - Bargaining

4 - Depression

5 - Acceptance

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

I will always appreciate Jonah G. Snipped from insty - snipped from NR: Jonah G:

" The idea that National Review should be lumped in with that establishment is the kind of insight one can only discover after successfully inserting your entire cranium past your sphincter. The K-Street/consultant-class Republican establishment is conservative, but their conservatism is secondary to their need to make deals, maintain access and, to be fair, win elections.

That last bit is important. The Republican party is in the election-winning business first and foremost. And that’s largely as it should be. That’s partly why former National Review publisher, the late, great Bill Rusher always used to tell the new hires at NR to be on guard: “Politicians will always disappoint you.”

The reason politicians will disappoint principled conservatives — and, for that matter, principled liberals and libertarians — is that there is always an inherent tradeoff between the purity of principle and the necessities of electoral politics and the limitations of what can be done via government action. National Review has always recognized this tension, which is immortalized in the rule of thumb that we should support “the most conservative candidate electable.”

Every conservative is supposed to believe that incentives matter. The incentives for the K-street/consultant establishment is keep their influence and their access. The incentives for the ink-and-pixel-stained wretches who run NR are different. I’m open to the complaint that our self-interest has driven us to become too invested in an ideology that too few voters subscribe to. But if that’s the case, the remedy isn’t to abandon all principle and just join the mob. I’d rather go down with my ship, thank you very much."

Leland said...

I like Jonah. However, I heard the "most electable" trope before. Specifically in 2012, when the most electable was David Dewhurst. Besides worrying about his own family interests, Dewhurst was best known for blocking conservative bills, because they would hurt the party in general elections. Texans jettisoned Dewhurst. Conservative bills moved forward. And the party made gains in the state, particularly in down ballot issues.

ampersand said...

I hope they gave T. Coddington Van Voorhees VI his say.

chickelit said...

I’d rather go down with my ship, thank you very much.

I've known the story of Titanic since I was a boy and continually add to my knowledge. I'd prefer not to go down with that ship.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I think self-styled American conservatives fashion their approach on the revolution and rebellion of the founding and can't define themselves in any way other than as a destructive force in government. But Trump actually wants to cut through the bull and get at least some things done, and that's what they find abominable: The idea of a guy who, as president, actually is effective in some way, at some thing. And that's what they can't stand. A guy running on the right who will actually disprove the self-defeating mantra of forcing a belief that the government can only fuck up. What do they think? That his supporters want him to fail at stopping the flow of illegal immigration? That they actually want him to fail at negotiating more favorable deals with other countries?

Sooner or later the right-wing brain-dead trust is going to have to admit that they've sacrificed every last bit of interest in a competent chief executive on the altar of a hatred of government that can only deliver failure. It's a nonsensical ideology that worked its way into power, until ultimately and inevitably bankrupting itself. If you believe that government can only fail, then sooner or later everyone you nominate is going to be transparently destined for failure. And even right-wing voters eventually will find that there's a thing or two that they want even "the government" or chief executive they elect to not fuck up.

Trump's entire theme is competence, and how every one of these clownsticks on the right and a few on the left keep fucking that up. The anti-competence right-wing elite has no choice but to kick and scream itself into fulmination.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Until Trump, the mantra on the right went from expecting incompetence from government, to demanding it. And if that hadn't happened, then you were told to vote for someone who could get into office and implement it. Make that incompetence happen! PROVE that the government has to be incompetent!

Trump is obviously about the opposite approach.

A half-century of a politics based on not caring about results has come back to haunt these guys.

bagoh20 said...

Oh yes, the news is just filled with the competence of government. You might even forget that it's populated mostly by people motivated by the easy undemanding way it hands over other people's money, and for a lifetime regardless of performance, once you get in. You can poison people, for Christ's sake, then blame it on the people who have warned you that maybe government isn't all that competent. Ritmo, it's people spewing the crap you just did above that makes this happen by selling people a complete line of shit. They believe it, and then after they give up their hard earned money, that wonderful government spends it on pay, benefits and pensions for itself, and peels of as much as it can to friends and supporters who recycle it back for ads spewing the same shit again. Very compassionate, and smart, depending who you are.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Oh yes, the news is just filled with the competence of government.

Hey, man. In a democracy, you get the government you vote for. And as far as I can tell, there's currently only one party that's obsessed with telling the people how little to expect from them, which is exactly the same as how much incompetence they intend to deliver. Why do you think Trump's message is resonating - even with people like you?

The Republican, "expect incompetence from the government we're running to implement" message is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't think you get it. These guys work FOR US. They're OUR employees. What other employee would you hire who says that the job is impossible, it might as well not exist, but asks to be hired and paid anyway? (Well, maybe you would hire that person. Not so sure about a normal employer). And yet, that's precisely the position these candidates are in and EXACTLY the message that every establishment GOP candidate ever says. You might be able to fall for it because you're rich. But those right-wing rubes you need to go along with your voting bloc are apparently sick and tired of it. Don't blame that on me, or on them, or on Trump, or on the GOP establishment, or the fact that government necessarily exists, or anything else. Blame it on an illogical message and an illogical idea finally being rejected by the people upon whom you keep insisting on inflicting it.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Oh yes, the news is just filled with the competence of government.

Right. Because it's the news media's job to report on things that work right and turn out smoothly. Of course the things they report on are the things that go wrong. What universe are you living in? Do you assume that perfection should be expected from other organizations or just from the government?

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

You can poison people, for Christ's sake, then blame it on the people who have warned you that maybe government isn't all that competent.

LOL. If THEY'RE the ones who made the decisions that resulting in those poisonings then hell yes they're to be blamed! Duh! THEY RAN ON THE MESSAGE OF TELLING PEOPLE THAT THEY SUCK AT THEIR JOB! WHAT DO YOU EXPECT! People who hate the job generally tend to fuck the job up. Are you so stupid that you can't see that?

New Rule: Any Republican establishment who after 2016 runs on the tired line that the government position he's running for can't do anything competently needs to forego any salary if he should win. There's just no other way to take out that sort of moral hazard. Yes, if someone tells you that the job is impossible to do right, he has no business running for it and no business taking it. At least surely not for pay, in any case.

bagoh20 said...

You simply have no shame - you and the bureaucrats who steal from and refuse to serve the people of this country despite being paid far more than those who pay for it. To have the disrespect to tell them that they just don't appreciate being robbed is so Soviet 5-year plan-ish. Can you crooks just leave one nation free of your greed, just one? If you love that system, there are many places to pick from. How about a little diversity.

Leland said...

In his own words, poisoning people is just a means to an end for ritmo.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Let's hear it for Revenge of the Butthurt. Though that was a perfect description of the typical Republican politician, Baggy.

And tag-team-member Butthurt, Leland - what exactly are you whining about? You said that people in Flint deserved to be poisoned. So why would you bitch if someone turned around and poisoned you?

Oh, that's right. Because you're a whiny, hypocritical, immoral coward.

Chip Ahoy said...

I want the Republican party to die.

All advice prerejected.

This anguished death suits me just fine. Please, spare me the lectures on being serious and being true conservative. Write whatever you will. Get it out your system. It's not getting read. That serious attitude is played. And now the players must go away.

Trumpettes. Fine. These epithets, appellations, sobriquets, intended to offend make no position or candidate attractive. I read it all day long. They just piss me off more. Look, have your fucking ass Republican candidate and vote for whoever you wish. I am sick of both these stinking parties, criminal in intent and in affect. I want them gone. I want them disrupted. I want politicians, pundits, media punished. I want their obsession to HURT them.

From Drudge, Obama Ryan plot next moves.

Sound ominous dunnit?

From the article:

Ryan was offended in April 2011 when Obama disparaged his proposal to overhaul the federal budget while Ryan sat in the front row at a speech. At the time, the president and congressional Republicans were wrangling over strategies to reduce the federal deficit. In a speech at George Washington University, Obama said that a proposal by then-House Budget Committee chairman Ryan was less a fiscal plan than a stab at "changing the basic social compact in America" by cutting programs including Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps and education while reducing top income tax rates.

Ryan was sitting in the front row of the audience.

I don't believe Ryan will be there to deliver the what for. Then Ryan gives the bums everything they asked forxxxxx demanded, so that HE can have a cleared table. I sense only betrayal for that is all that I know. Sorry, Pal, not trusted.

And he held such promise, from within the stinking @ss party, betrayer of its own base, ingratiated now to the vast Washington face hugger smothering the visage of America.

rcommal said...

Who the h3ll do they think they are that they can tell us/me what I should think and decide whether I fit into their narrow category of "conservative"?

Well, not only do I think the same about the very same "they" that you do, I also think that about yet *another* "they," and that "they" includes you, DustBunnyQueen.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Balls, you sound desperate.

Leland said...

You said that people in Flint deserved to be poisoned.

Of course, that is a lie. There is a link, anyone can read it, and they'll never find that claim from anyone but you. As well, they'll find where you hope someone leaches arsenic into my water supply. Psychiatrist call what you do ritmo, projecting.

Me, I take personal responsibility. I don't blame people 1,000 miles away for things that go wrong in my life. I don't want the people a 1,000 miles away making important decisions for me or taking my money. And I'm happier for it. That's the conservative message.

I bet you didn't know that while you were running around blaming people, Ted Cruz purchased cases of water for the people of Flint. Hillary and Bernie were too busy blaming Snyder and fundraising. You were too busy making strawmen and burning them down.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Balls, you sound desperate.

I desperately dislike when Baggy projects the desperate failings of the Republican Party onto me. That was the issue I was talking about, everyone can see it, and most people agree with it. The party's in shambles. If you don't like my explanation for why that is, there's no reason to insult me.

Leland said...

everyone can see it

Nope.

If you don't like my explanation for why that is, there's no reason to insult me.

Once again, advice ritmo will not take.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Of course, that is a lie. There is a link, anyone can read it, and they'll never find that claim from anyone but you.

What they'll find is you being a sneaky weasel and saying that they didn't "exercise personal responsibility," and dismissing the manifest and admitted liability of the public officials who forced these decisions. That's you shifting blame from victims and onto the negligent, which is the same as saying the victims were "deserving" of their fate. You said that lawsuits and prosecution were wrong. Only a massive case of social psychosis would allow you to pretend that there's a difference between that and implying that their fate was deserved.

As well, they'll find where you hope someone leaches arsenic into my water supply. Psychiatrist call what you do ritmo, projecting.

I didn't say I hoped that it happened. I said that if it did happen - and your contempt for a million poisoning victims makes it likely that someone might feel compelled to give you a taste of your own medicine - then "I'll make sure to see if you (still) feel the same way (about them)." Direct quote (plus parentheticals for the obtuse).

Me, I take personal responsibility. I don't blame people 1,000 miles away for things that go wrong in my life.

There you go again - making an issue of negligence (OBVIOUS grounds for civil action) one of "personal responsibility." So which is it? Are they at fault and deserving of their poisonings or are the people charged with the water safety culpable? And they're NOT "1,000 miles away", you illiterate. They're in the same city and/or less than 100 miles or a three hours' drive away in their own state's capitol. The governor apologized. He seemed to cry. What business is it of yours that the MBA and law school-educated governor understood his political and legal AND MORAL culpability, other than that you think it's wrong to make a point out of what he did wrong and what he admitted to doing wrong? You have no understanding of negligence other than in some infinite sense to one's self - which makes anything done to you ipso facto your own fault. You have created a bar too high for anyone else's moral culpability to matter - other than your own.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I don't want the people a 1,000 miles away making important decisions for me or taking my money. And I'm happier for it. That's the conservative message.

Again, with the "thousand miles away" bullcrap. You obviously failed not only English, not only civics, but math.

I bet you didn't know that while you were running around blaming people, Ted Cruz purchased cases of water for the people of Flint.

Good for him for making his disingenuous political sales pitch. But at least it's more than you've done or would ever do.

Hillary and Bernie were too busy blaming Snyder and fundraising.

Ah, right. There's the political point for you to make about a tragedy. You're worse than an ambulance chaser. At least they get paid. You're just an unpaid hack, sitting there convincing yourself of how to make an ideology out of a tragedy and an actionable legal and moral failing. And no one cares or agrees. Not even those responsible.

You were too busy making strawmen and burning them down.

Everything I wrote was a logical conclusion of your stupid refusal to understand that not all "responsibility" is one's own personal responsibility. All contracts involve responsibility between each party of the contract to EACH OTHER - whether in government or private industry or whatever. You don't understand how contracts work, or their inviolability? Fine. Go back to a country that has as little respect for them as you do. Go and ask the Supreme Court to overturn the 1819 precedent in Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward. You really are a complete imbecile in so many ways that it literally requires an abdication of all senses to follow your point to anything even remotely workable.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

"everyone can see it"

Nope.


Dude, you can't see your hand in front of your face. No one needs art appreciation tips from a blind man.

Just get some integrity for once in your life.

Leland said...

Just get some integrity for once in your life.

Almost need a tag "advice Ritmo won't take".

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Whatever you say, Leland.

Go take your "advice tour" on the road to Flint. Get up on a stage in their city hall with a Powerpoint presentation to show on the water fiasco. Let them know irresponsible you think they were.