According to the New York Post: He’s not a war hero,” Trump told an audience of Iowa conservatives on Saturday. “He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured. He also called McCain a “loser.”
Now I am not of a fan of John McCain the politician. He is the epitome of the Rhino. Of the guy who runs as a conservative but legislates as a liberal. Who is always ready to compromise with the Democrats and trashes conservatives and conservative values on every Sunday morning talk show that will put him on to give the "conservative viewpoint."
It is way out of line to criticize his service as a pilot. I mean so he was last in his class or whatever. So was Custer. He served honorably and suffered at the hands of America's enemies. He should be honored for his service. Trump needs to shut up and worry about Joan Rivers and Geraldo Rivera and the other assholes on the Celebrity Apprentice.
Call out McCain on his record as the worst Rhino in Congress. Not on his military service. What a moron.
46 comments:
That's a common. Along the lines of McCain is famous for screwing up. He trashed a plane before being captured, I think, that killed another airman. I'm recalling something about a fire on carrier deck.
Today I read "he was a pilot in the Air Force."
Inside, I go, "huh?"
Then, "He's a hero not because he he was shot down, not because he was prisoner, but because he refused early release when it was offered to him by the North Vietnamese. His father was Admiral, you know."
Yeah, Air Force is lousy with those.
And that's a very big thing, refusing early release. The term Hotel Hilton is the bleak black humor euphemism that military show such a knack for representing the most horrible things imaginable and that sometimes tricks people too young to know, or too slow on the uptake or Democrat into imagining an actual hotel or maybe something akin to a modern American federal prison.
Proving again that he's actually liberal-saturated -- aren't we all? -- and probably playing FOX guest writ large.
FWIW, those who want to grind an axe against McCain's service record, may have more justification than they might otherwise think.
Much of the furor right now has less to do with his service, honorable or not, than the fact he's one of Chuckie Schumer's most loyal Republicans.
For myself, his conduct toward, and the fact he allowed his staff to shaft, Miss Sarah put him beyond the pale as far as I was concerned.
YMMV
Oy, serious mistake by The Donald. Let's see what happens to his momentum.
His politics are fair game ed. I agree with you he was disgraceful in his treatment of Palin as well as his treatment of all conservatives. I just think it is not right to attack his war record. In fact it is stupid.
McCain drives me nutz, but you don't go there. McCain is a war hero. Period.
Donald Trump is a spoiled POS for saying such a stupid thing.
Well said, Trooper.
Lem linked to this the other day. Opened my eyes to the short and opportunistic attention span of The Donald.
Plus - It's Jonah G and he's a delight to read.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421045/donald-trump-fraud
If I were compiling a list of elected Imperial City politicos who have run the county into the ground over the last 25-30 years I would include McCain with Orrin Hatch, Kerry, McConnell, Biden, Feinstein, Boehner, Pelosi, both Bushes, Bill and Hillary Clinton.
But Trump was an idiot to say this about McCain. He just let all the wind out of his sails.
"Trump condemned Mitt Romney as an immigration hardliner in 2012 and favored comprehensive immigration reform.
Trump told Bill O’Reilly he was in favor of a “path to citizenship” for 30 million illegal immigrants:
Trump: "You have to give them a path. You have 20 million, 30 million, nobody knows what it is. It used to be 11 million. Now, today I hear it’s 11, but I don’t think it’s 11. I actually heard you probably have 30 million. You have to give them a path, and you have to make it possible for them to succeed. You have to do that."
Trumps past love and adoration of Hillary gives me pause too. I'm glad he is revealing the fact that Americans are tired of our open-border. If he can force the GOP elite to wake up, then good.
I served in Viet Nam, and received 2 Purple Hearts. McCain served in the area of Viet Nam and received a Purple Heart, and was captured.
Neither of us are HEROES.
John Kerry... enough said.
I think people are tired of McCain and his supporters playing the "But he's a war hero" card.
Yes, Johnny McCain was a hero in Vietnam - but that was 40 years ago. And for the past 35 years he's been THE MAVERICK and publicly insulting anyone who disagreed with him - especially if they Republicans or Conservatives.
He's called his fellow Republicans "Wacko Birds" "Clowns" "Crazies" "Racists" "Bigots" "Agents of Hate and Intolerance" and "Corrupt Pols".
So, the Donald was wrong to criticize him in public on his war record. Bad Politics, bad manners. But I feel little sympathy for the McCrazy.
And yes he was a Naval Aviator, not an " AF Pilot" - And Never call a Marine "soldier" either.
Allen, you served a greater cause and risked your life for your nation. You are a hero to me. Sure, not a super! hero like Superman. But gosh darn close ;)
AprilApple said...
McCain is a war hero.
If what those guys said was true (assuming you looked at the link), then he was not a hero.
Keep in mind, a similar whitewash of David Hackworth was done when the Army was ready to court-martial him.
I agree, it seems The Donald is once again activating his mouth before engaging his brain, but he did it on a Saturday in the middle of summer, so it's going to be interesting to see the fallout. You can bet the media will try to play it up for all it's worth.
Problem is, a lot of people hate John McCain for what he's done and this won't cut any ice.
I hear Trump has already refused to apologize, so he's following Uncle Saul's playbook.--
If somebody wants me to paste in the relevant paragraphs and a link to the original piece, say so; otherwise, I figure you're all tech-savvy enough to follow a link.
John Kerry was there for 4 months and brought a camera.
OT: It is pouring rain here. *Turn around and go to Californicationia!*
Alan you and Ari and McCain and everyone who went in harms way to protect America are heroes to me. Even John Kerry to a degree.
I watched it. Trump was rolling along with his ego out in front leading the way when he tried to get smart with a comeback about McCain calling his supporters "crazies" and he proceeded to stick his foot down his throat. I think I saw his toe coming out the other end. Dumbass.
The two of them deserve each other.
Benedict Arnold was a American War Hero.
John Kerry is just following in his foot steps.
I can't stand McCain but I respect his service. This comment is oblivious, Ignorant, arrogant, and inexcusable. Trump will say anything for attention.
The exact sort of thing a progressive pol would do. Or a reality show contestant.
One problem with calling McCain a "war hero" is it sorta cheapens it. If a guy gets shot down and captured is a "war Hero" than what do we call a guy who won the Congressional Medal of Honor?
Where do you draw the line? We had 15 million serve in WW2. Should we call them all heroes? 120,000 were captured should we have call them all heroes?
Kerry is a perfect example. IRC, he didn't volunteer for the Swift boats he just got assigned there. And according to his fellow officers he was a bit of a incompetent and a guy who faked some Purple hearts and tried to get out as soon as he could.
So, 'war hero' or no?
I feel that we can legitimately call anyone who served a hero. They put their lives on the line for us. The cook and the clerk just as much as the rifleman. A modest guy like AllanS can claim he is not a hero but to a lot of us he is indeed a hero. We honor his service. I honor John McCains service.
I just want him impeached and frog marched out of the Senate.
It does nothing to tarnish his service.
George Washington was a prisoner of war. He surrendered to the French in the French and Indian Wars.
Is George not a hero?
Trump didn't get that $10B worrying about what people think of him. It could be that he's just glib enough to talk his way out of anything that he's ever done or said. At some point somebody will have to appear on a TV screen opposite Hill or Bernie. I'm guessing it will be a cage fight. Most Republicans would put on their same old boxing gloves, get thrown on their ass, and have to suffer Hillary's bad breath as she chokes them into submission. Probably wouldn't happen that way with Trump.
Doesn't mean I want to see him in the White House. I heard him say once that Oprah would make a great vice president! What do you do? I don't know....
Just because you served, doesn't mean you have a handle on carte blanche.
I personally knew men, who knew that if they stayed where they were at, they were dead. It's a man who can realize that situation, and can rally the troops to go after the threat. It's a decision that isn't easily made, but one that has to happen. Is that person a hero? Hard to say. But, we've had an large amount of men who were willing to lead in this country, and for that, I'm glad to say that I met and served with some of them.
I had a job, apartment, car and pretty girlfriend, and was drafted into the Army. I lost all of it. I served, and returned home.
It was an experience that I hold dearly to my heart. I met some of the best men, and some of the worst. But, I've never regretted my time in the service.
For those "old" friends that didn't appreciate my time in the service... I found new friends. Not a problem.
I think the English wanted to hang George Washington in 1776. I don't remember anyone in Parliament calling him a "war hero" because of his F & I war service.
McCain is was a POW who was tortured and suffered. He put the interests of his fellow POWs ahead of his own interests. His behavior was heroic. I usually don't agree with his politics, but that is a separate issue.
Donald Trump was a chickenshit rich boy who didn't volunteer to serve. His remark about McCain are fully unwarranted, and call in to question his own lack of military experience. Additionally, if Trump a guy who actually respects the military? Or is it just an act?
Trooper York said...
I feel that we can legitimately call anyone who served a hero.
Have to disagree, on the grounds it cheapens the deeds of those who were truly heroic (this argument has been made by others, probably more eloquently than me).
It's like the trophies they hand out to all the kids at a baseball game, whether they won or lost. The guy who typed forms in triplicate at Ft Dix in WWII served honorably and he did his part, but was his work on the same level as what people like Walt Ehlers or Norman Cota did on Omaha Beach?
You can appreciate the guy at Ft Dix did something useful to help win the war, but that is not heroic, as we usually think of the word, particularly from about 25 years ago on back.
This overuse of the word "hero" seems to have started in the Persian Gulf War, as a kind of mea culpa for how the Vietnam vets were treated and the way the Left media maligned them.
George Washington was a prisoner of war. He surrendered to the French in the French and Indian Wars.
Is George not a hero?
He's a hero, but for his service in the American Revolution and as President, not for getting captured. That was a footnote.
Serious question: Back when we were kids, would our fathers even have entertained such an idea?
I recall, when Bush 41 floated the idea of a POW medal, a lot of people were against it on the grounds you don't decorate somebody for surrendering. Has that changed?
I have to totally disagree with you ed. I would not denigrate anyone who had to surrender. What are you Japanese? Do you think a soldier has to fight until he dies? Would you chop off their heads like the Japs did in World War Two.
I don't think that I have the right to denigrate or make light of anyone who served. I don't have the standing to do that. AllenS does. John McCain does. Even that frenchman Iranina blowing John Kerry does.
I don't like John McCain. I mean I really don't like John McCain. But I think he served very honorable and a scumbag like Trump should keep his name out of his mouth with respect to his service.
"Donald Trump was a chickenshit rich boy who didn't volunteer to serve."
Trump got a medical deferment - could be he wouldn't have passed the physical. Don't know if that's a fact, just putting it out there.
As for McCain, he was son and grandson of an Admiral. He went to Annapolis. He was in effect working in the family business. It probably would've been impossible for him - unless he wanted to humiliate himself and his family -to get out of service in Vietnam even if he'd wished to.
I'm willing to give McCrazy credit but not too much. And he certainly isn't a sacred cow anymore than Kerry is.
One thing I like about Trump is that he knows how to play the media game. Even when he says something impolite he doesn't apologize because he knows that just energizes the critics to keep on attacking. Trump also counter-attacks and never plays defense. Again very smart. This time he counter-attacked against McCain for calling him a "Clown" and said a dumb thing.
The RINO's and MSM are going after Trump because of his comments on Illegals. So anything that can possible be used against him will be publicized and blown out of proportion. He's being given the Palin treatment. They'd be going after Cruz if he had he poll numbers.
Does anyone think Obama or Hillary give a damn about Vietnam Vets?
George Washington performed heroically in the French and Indian wars. But he did get captured. He didn't fight to the death.
Famous prisoners of war:
Winston Churchill Boer War.
Kurt Vonnegut Battle of the Bulge WW2
Charles De Gaulle Battle of Verdun
Andrew Jackson Revolutionary War
William Stacy Revolutionary War
Jonathan Wainwright Corrigedor WW2
Pappy Boyington South Pacific WW2
Some of them did great things after their time in captivity. Some of them were horrible. But you can't judge them or condemn them because they surrendered instead of getting killed. At least I can't.
RC I just want to say that I agree with you 100% about why the press and the Rhinos are going after Trump. But he stepped on his dick with this one. He is totally out of line.
Sometimes it is more important to admit you are wrong instead of doubling down. Trump doubles down. That is why he lost all of his casinos.
Of course he is not a serious candidate. Not because of what he says. It is because he will never comply with the financial disclosure that is required of serious candidates. He will make a lot headlines.
I tend to agree with those who claim he is a stalking horse for Hillary.
Trooper York said...
I have to totally disagree with you ed. I would not denigrate anyone who had to surrender.
When, exactly, did I denigrate anyone who surrendered?
All I said was there were people who objected when Bush 41 proposed a medal for POWs on the grounds it rewarded something they thought shouldn't be encouraged.
What I did was question whether that attitude had gone by the boards.
Big difference from what you said.
As an example of the attitude to which I referred, I recall reading how the commander of the 106th Division, having surrendered two of his regiments under attack in the Battle of the Bulge after they'd fired off all their ammunition, being given a Bronx cheer from his own men for giving up.
When a sizable number of Darby's Rangers, having been taken prisoner by the Germans after firing all their ammo (these were new guys), were marched in front of the remaining Rangers trapped in the Anzio beachhead as human shields, Bill Darby said shoot the prisoners if necessary, but don't give up.
All I'm asking is it appears that kind of attitude has been replaced.
PS You don't have to worry about Trump. He was apparently riffing off that peerless satirist, Al Franken, who voiced his opinion in '00 that, as a POW, McCain had sat out the war.
I don't know if he was a good or effective fighter pilot, but he put himself at risk doing it. I also have read that he acted very honorably as a P.O.W. Those things deserve respect, and therefore it was slimey and stupid to attack that part of his bio. Despite those facts, he could still have been a bad, dangerous, or irresponsible pilot or officer otherwise. I don't know about that, and I doubt if Trump does. He has a pretty conservative voting record, but when he screws up, he goes big, and he is very disrespectful of people who disagree with him on the conservative side. I regret that I have dislike a man who did such honorable things in Vietnam, but that's along time ago and and a short period of his record. It was a dumb criticism.
It's getting to where although I like seeing Trump say the politically incorrect things and then not back down, it may be all I really like about him. I do not trust the man, and I don't think he would do much to install conservative policies in office. I guess that would just make him a common Republican though. So far, I would like Walker with Rubio, or Paul, or Fiorino, but I would still expect to be disappointed in the results. Take what you can get. I think those candidates would all do very well in debates against any Dems, especially a Clinton/Sanders ticket, which is very close to a Brezhnev/Jimmy Carter ticket in a lot of ways, although Brezhnev has more sex appeal.
Maybe the most unfortunate thing about Trump's stupidity is that it's drowning out this little dust-up.
Trump is running for president the way he would compete in his television show The Apprentice.
I don't know what to make of it.
bagoh20 said...
I don't know if he was a good or effective fighter pilot, but he put himself at risk doing it. I also have read that he acted very honorably as a P.O.W.
In '08, there was a group Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain, not unlike the Swift Boat guys going after Kerry.
They claimed McCain had collaborated with the enemy and wanted him court martialed after the POWs were returned, but DOD didn't want to do it and would treat all the POWs as heroes.
How true the charges are, I can't say, but they are very serious.
Here's the link on it
Yes, its an unforced error and a dumb statement. So what? It'll be forgotten in a week. And then the MSM will find another stick to beat Trump with.
IMO, Trump really isn't a stalking horse for Hillary but the Republican establishment. Trump is taking all the oxygen away from Senator Cruz and more credible conservative candidates. By December, to most of the Dumbo Republican voters he'll be the conservative alternative to Bush. At that time Trump, will simply bail and endorse Bush. Result: in the New Hampshire primary it'll be Bush vs. a bunch of guys no one has been paying attention to for 6 months. Why? Because everyone has been talking about Trump.
The Establishment is also behind all these candidates running for the Repub nomination. Does anyone think Lindseed Graham Cracker or Christie has a chance? No, they're just there to flood the zone so when we have the debates you'll have 10 guys babbling for 2 minutes and no one will make an impression.
Result: Bush will have the name recognition and the big donor money for massive TV buys and cruise to victory while 10 nobodies split the rest of the vote.
I think I just read the Trump/McCain comment that appear to have Trump in hot water.
Link
rcocean said...
IMO, Trump really isn't a stalking horse for Hillary but the Republican establishment. Trump is taking all the oxygen away from Senator Cruz and more credible conservative candidates
The one fly in your ointment, however, is that he's getting people fired up over an issue the Whigs would just as soon let lie.
If they are behind this, it seems a plan that's going to come back to bite them.
I'm not sure the country can handle a new two front war right now. I mean, we're fully engaged in re-fighting The War of Northern Aggression, can we deal with re-fighting Vietnam at the same time?
Then there's that Islam War thing and the Race War thing. It's stressful. We've lost the Culture War and the ones on Drugs and Poverty so I guess that could free up some resources if we just go ahead and formally surrender on those, Appomattox like. There's a bright side here somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.
Rabel said...
Then there's that Islam War thing and the Race War thing. It's stressful. We've lost the Culture War and the ones on Drugs and Poverty so I guess that could free up some resources if we just go ahead and formally surrender on those, Appomattox like
You give up too easily. I know a lot of this isn't advertised, but consider
the Race War thing: As of last year, birth rates of non-Hispanic whites and minorities are now equal. and the ones making more babies are white Conservatives.
the Culture War: we won the war on gun control, but the number of blacks who believe firearms are more likely to protect people than to put their safety at risk has doubled - looks like the Demos' unwillingness to protect people in the inner city may be coming back to bite them;
also, according to AP (of all people), a plurality now thinks it's more important for government to protect religious freedom than same sex marriage and support for same sex marriage has begun to drop - looks like the Gaystapo is cutting its own throat as predicted.
the Poverty war: that was lost, probably purposely, by the Demos, not us, although, where the Conservative model is in place, we're winning.
You want bright spots, there they are.
About Trump and Hillary -- did you know that: "he invited her to his 2005 wedding in Florida, where she sat front row, and he's donated at least $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation. He also said in an appearance on the Howard Stern show in the mid-2000s that she was a fantastic senator."
The guy is a bad joke and can only hurt the Republicans in 2016.
Trump sunk his own boat. It was going to happen and here it is. Either Trump knows McCain's military history and doesn't care or he doesn't know it at all and in either case, he's made a fatal mistake. Now, everyone has dropped their Trump banners, turned around, and walked home. This is the process, this is how the fools are weeded out. It works for the most part. Trump is Trumps worst enemy. He may be worth 10 billion, but no one talks about how he's lost his fortunes twice because he was stupid.
McCain is a war hero. He served 5 years as a POW and gave up his ability for release to others before him. He was honorable, he performed his duty, he was heroic in his resistance. Trump doesn't understand hardship which makes him weak and a bombastic dickhead. Sometimes he's not wrong, but you can still be an asshole at the same time. Thanks for the entertainment Donald. Hope it was worth it.
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