Wednesday, August 13, 2014

What men want

"Fifty Shades" allows women, if only in their fantasies, to finally surrender control. It gives them permission to let a man call the shots, and to learn that not only can this be an aphrodisiac..."grants women access to the deepest parts of a man’s soul. And that’s what most women want.

Is access to the deepest part of a man's soul what most women want?

"Indeed, the dominance/submission theme of "Fifty Shades of Grey" makes the perfect backdrop for the ongoing debate about gender equality. What does this phrase even mean? In any relationship, the man and the woman have equal value. But they can’t both drive the same car—it won’t move. One must lead, and the other must follow. It doesn’t always have to be the man who leads. But more often than not, that’s what works.
 The truth is, the battle of the sexes isn’t about equality—it’s about who’s going to surrender to whom. Those are two different things. When a woman stops trying to be in charge of everything, which in reality is making her nuts, she finds she’s more satisfied than ever. She feels lighter. She feels cared for.
She feels empowered.

"The battle of the sexes isn't about equality---it's about who is going to surrender to whom." I'm not up to speed on philosophy, is this a tautology?


This is an entirely new idea. Decades of feminist propaganda have insisted that empowerment means being in control at all times. That is how a woman proves her worth. But it’s one thing to take control of your own life and quite another to control your man. The latter never works. What does work in love is deference. Respect. Trust.
 Of course, that means being vulnerable, which women don’t like—they associate it with being weak. Because of this, many women have their dukes up rather than their guards down. 
But in "Fifty Shades," women are shown that letting one’s guard down is, in fact, the answer. Being deferential toward your man doesn’t mean you don’t have a voice. It means you respect him and are willing to yield to his judgment. Not all the time, perhaps, but much of it. In doing so, a woman finds a man opening up to her in a way he otherwise wouldn’t. And that’s where love can be found.


This is not at entirely new idea. Christian writers have been stressing the idea of wifely submission to husbands for a long time. And using same language; a ship can't have two captains, etc. Which is fine. 

But I get the sense this is another angle on the diminution of the male in the form of the soft bigotry of low expectations. Give them not what is their due, but what will bolster their egos. 

This article is written by Suzanne Venker, founder of Women for Men, a men's rights advocate group.

25 comments:

ricpic said...

There's a C&W song, I think the title is Let's Talk About Me or I Wanna Talk About Me in which the guy laments that he can hardly get a word in edgewise. I don't think his gal cares about his soul at all, never mind plumbing its depths.

bagoh20 said...

Sex is best when nobody is in control. The man may appear to be in control, but if it's good sex, he can't stop it, slow it down or even steer it. He's just riding the bus too. I like my sex bus with the steering wheel missing and a brick on the gas pedal.

Women are not really into driving the bus. They do it to please their man, and to change things up a little which is great. It's definitely hot when they take the wheel for a while, and really hot if they drive all the way home, but usually they just like to sit on the driver's lap for a few miles before jumping off and letting someone with a passion for driving take it home and park that beast with the tires still smoking and the radiator boiling over.

MamaM said...

Dedicated to ricpic, poetry style, though the song has a sound of its own.

"I Wanna Talk About Me"

We talk about your work how your boss is a jerk
We talk about your church and your head when it hurts
We talk about the troubles you've been having with your brother
About your daddy and your mother and your crazy ex-lover
We talk about your friends and the places that you've been
We talk about your skin and the dimples on your chin
The polish on your toes and the run in your hose
And God knows we're gonna talk about your clothes
You know talking about you makes me smile
But every once in awhile

I wanna talk about me
Wanna talk about I
Wanna talk about number one
Oh my me my
What I think, what I like, what I know, what I want, what I see
I like talking about you, usually, but occassionally
I wanna talk about me
I wanna talk about me

We talk about your dreams and we talk about your schemes
your high school team and your moisturizer creme
We talk about your nanna up in Muncie, Indiana
We talk about your grandma down in Alabama
We talk about your guys of every shape and size
The ones that you despise and the ones you idolize
We talk about your heart, about your brains and your smarts
And your medical charts and where you start
You know talking about you makes me grin
But every now and then

I wanna talk about me
Wanna talk about I
Wanna talk about number one
Oh my me my
What I think, what I like, what I know, what I want, what I see
I like talking about you, usually, but occassionally
I wanna talk about me
I wanna talk about me

You you you you you you you you youyouyouyouyou
I wanna talk about me

Anonymous said...

"Pop quiz, hotshot. There's a bomb on a bus. Once the bus goes 50 miles an hour, the bomb is armed. If it drops below 50, it blows up. What do you do? What do you do?"

Premature Speed

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

These frigid dykes don't need a stupid book to surrender "control". I'll let them do that without it. But then, I'm usually not into frigid dykes.

The idea that control should take a backseat to pleasure is what leads to things like Robin Williams killing himself.

Seriously, fucking enjoy life. All you mainstream control freaks remind me of an argument Bill Maher got into with a religious nut. She talked about one's body/sexual physicality being like a car, and how important it is to take good care of it and not take risks with it. Maher raised his voice and reminded the bitch that maybe the point was to actually drive it now and then.

Women who lack for passion in their lives age demonstrably much worse. Proven fact. And by anecdote. Ice queens have less blood pumping through their veins, and are less attractive as a result. American men are too stupid to get this but I know better!

Eric the Fruit Bat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Hey! Your time is valuable and I'll not waste it!

Let's get it right!!!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Being deferential toward your man doesn’t mean you don’t have a voice. It means you respect him and are willing to yield to his judgment. Not all the time, perhaps, but much of it.

Yes...And the same goes if the genders are reversed. Deferring to your partner is not losing "control". Sometimes my husband defers to my wishes/desires/judgement. Other times I defer to his. This is part of being a team. A marriage or relationship. Give and take. Ebb and flow. This goes for sex as well as all other aspects of life.

A ship can't have two captains.

Maybe not, but you can take turns being the captain for a while. Doing what each person does best for the circumstance.

As to sex and the 50 Shades of Grey philosophy giving yourself over to submission....If you are constantly worried about being in control, losing control, who is winning, who is losing.....you just aren't living your life. Relax. Stop thinking so much. Do whatever feels right at the time. No wonder feminists are such tight-assed, humorless prunes, obsessing over orgasms and whether they are getting their fair share.

Synova said...

I think this is a ridiculous stretch. Ugh.

I read a lot of romance... normal romances she's all excited to know that she makes him a little crazy. It's power. It's always going to do a guy good to be a little aggressive.

But that is not the sub-dom thing and, yes, it's a thing in a lot of romance and no, sorry, not healthy.

And I'm a "submit to your husband" person.

There's 50 Shades, there's untold "vampire" romances where the tortured monster mesmerizes the human women and has sex with her... totally rapey and gross... but she falls in love with him. Yes, her agency has been entirely removed and yes, some women *obviously* like this fantasy.

It is not, however, anything remotely like deciding that your husband is "head of the house" and supporting him in that role.

About the last straw in one novel that met the wall (as in, thrown, with force) was when the woman was all... I was real-raped once and it's a problem but I'm totally willing to let you pretend-rape me since you like that sort of thing...

OH GAWD. No, sorry... no one should be framing this as some sort of "women supporting men" philosophical development.

Michael Haz said...

Giving up all control during sex is immensely erotic and deeply satisfying. Wasn't that the point of the book? Stop trying to be "equal"; stop keeping score. Trust your lover enough to fully give over control.

Titus said...

icky

Titus said...

I just watched Lars Von Trier's Nympho 1 and 2 on NetFlix-amazing!!!!!

tits and euro cocks everywhere!

Charlotte Gainsburg-tour de force.

bagoh20 said...

"icky"

That's what we been telling you, and you call us homophobes for it. Try doing it correctly and it's really cool.

chickelit said...

"But they can’t both drive the same car—it won’t move."

Tira piu’ un pelo di figa che un carro di buoi
~Italian proverb, shorn of its relevance.

Sir Archy said...

To Deborah.

Madam,

As the Ghost of a Gentleman, dead these 265 Years and more, I pray you do not take it amiss if I tell you the Battel of the Sexes is no Novelty; but, to claim some small Advantage over this Modern Age, I will not blush to say, ’twere fought with better Spirit and Equipage in my own Day. The Fair Sex hath always known it rules the World, whilst allowing Men their Display of Bluster, Bombast, and Boorishness in preference to much worse. Howsoever secure in their natural Superiority, even solid & sensible Gentlewomen of my Day were not immune to the Blandishments of Tragedy-Writers in shewing Men to a Disadvantage upon the Stage. Addison says a few Words on this in the 40th Number of his Spectator, viz.:–

“I shall here add a Remark, which I am afraid our Tragick Writers may make an ill use of. As our Heroes are generally Lovers, their Swelling and Blustring upon the Stage very much recommends them to the fair Part of their Audience. The Ladies are wonderfully pleased to see a Man insulting Kings, or affronting the Gods, in one Scene, and throwing himself at the Feet of his Mistress in another. Let him behave himself insolently towards the Men, and abjectly towards the Fair One, and it is ten to one but he proves a Favourite of the Boxes. Dryden and Lee, in several of their Tragedies, have practised this Secret with good Success.”

Wishing you may continue to practise your own Secrets with like Success, I am,

Madam,

Your Humble & Obt. Servant,

Sir Archy

Sir Archy said...

To the Publick.

Whilst it remains astonishing to my ghostly Eyes to see Fair Ones before the Bar, or even untertaking Chiurgery in these latter Days, neither of these Professions were unthought of for the Futurity of Womankind in my own. But, what is amazing, is to see a Woman of no little Grace, playing Purcell’s Musick upon a trumpet (of a Sort I knew well) to the Treble Voice of a Man, which you may see and hear at this Location.

Castrati were all the Vogue before they were laugh’d off the Stage by The Beggar’s Opera in my Century. But, the English were famous for training up Boys to sing nearly as high without the dreadful Operation; and so, from remotest Times, they were fitted with Male Warbl’rs in both Church and upon the Stage. Native Trebles were displac’d for a While by Italian Geldings; but, the Publick soon tired of such Artificialities, preferring Song in more natural Tones, at least in the Theatre. The Church hath always giv’n Employment to Men of such Abilities, however, so ’tis not so surprising there remain one or two who can sing Purcell’s glorious Musick even in this World today. But, a Lady Trumpeter is a Sight I never thought to see, and a fine Instance of the Equality of the Sexes in this, your Modern Age.

edutcher said...

In the end, all it means is the battle of the sexes is the real idiot's delight.

ndspinelli said...

The best relationships, be they sexual or otherwise, are between too people who are not control freaks. My observation skills allow me to spot a control freak a mile away. I have learned to eliminate all control freaks from my life. It takes diligence and discipline. But, the effort is well worth it.

deborah said...

I apologize for the late replies...at Mom's again, getting ready to dive into gardening in her/my beloved yard.

Bago nails it, of course, I need a cigarette after reading that :)

deborah said...

DBQ, well said all. Division of labor is a beautiful thing, and it by no means has to be the traditional breakdown of days past, though it often tends to be.

deborah said...

Synova:
"I read a lot of romance... normal romances she's all excited to know that she makes him a little crazy. It's power. It's always going to do a guy good to be a little aggressive.

But that is not the sub-dom thing and, yes, it's a thing in a lot of romance and no, sorry, not healthy.

And I'm a "submit to your husband" person.

There's 50 Shades, there's untold "vampire" romances where the tortured monster mesmerizes the human women and has sex with her... totally rapey and gross... but she falls in love with him. Yes, her agency has been entirely removed and yes, some women *obviously* like this fantasy.

It is not, however, anything remotely like deciding that your husband is "head of the house" and supporting him in that role."

Synova, I was remiss in not bringing up the submission/domination angle as you have. These women at "Women For Men" are railing at the the disrespect thrown at men in the media, at home, and in the courts, while at the same time acting as if sub/dom is something men desire and women should accede to if they desire to be granted "access to the deepest parts of a man’s soul." lol and yuk.

Is is all of a piece with the degrading violence in our society from mean reality shows, first shooter games, outrageously well-made television programs, horrific movies, mass murders, constant war, etc. It seems that as technology advances so does the appreciation of violence and the coarsening of society.

To paraphrase TS Eliot, 'progress' ultimately results in crawling up our own backside.

deborah said...

Haz:
"Giving up all control during sex is immensely erotic and deeply satisfying. Wasn't that the point of the book? Stop trying to be "equal"; stop keeping score. Trust your lover enough to fully give over control."

I confess I didn't read the book, but I think the upshot is the man is always in control, I'm guessing is a possibly scary way?

deborah said...

Chick, what is the translation of that Italian proverb, please?

Sir Archy, two missives in one thread is an honor indeed.

Well said, Ed.



deborah said...

Nick:
"The best relationships, be they sexual or otherwise, are between too people who are not control freaks."

Yeah, pretty much.

"My observation skills allow me to spot a control freak a mile away. I have learned to eliminate all control freaks from my life..."

That's nice, but what about siblings? It's rough, but I'm still learning to rein in my own control issues and to manage her with love and empathy. It's really hard because I'm always right lol.

MamaM said...

It's not only Bago who nails it. The cockroach came out with another piece of creative enlightenment, along with an invitation to sensory experience where spirit, breath and material mined from the earth came together in a delightful way that mimics the back and forth play as well as the oneness that is part of the other creative experience.

That I was unaware until now of a trumpet with holes instead of valves is testimony to my limited exposure. Thank you Sir Archy, for stirring yourself from the dust to offer a note and glimpse of glory.