Thus the "bad lipreading" videos popular presently that parody context amusingly. I actually do not find those things all that funny because they comport too well with my own frustrating experience. They are just not that funny to me.
I notice the cartoons are becoming very good at showing character's tongue to coincide with the sound of "L", it is cute as can be, and shape the mouth for the sound of "O" and squeeze the lips for "E" and all the sounds that end with it. They purse the lips for "P" and "B" and sometimes show teeth for "V", the tongue showing between teeth for "TH". The two cartoons that caught my attention with this are "Adventure Time" and "The Ordinary Show" It appears to me the cartoonists take great care in having mouth movement coincide with sound. Impressive, as the cartoons are made over a period of several months in Taiwan. In the case of Ordinary Show the main character's mouth is a bluebird's beak. They are very clever at matching mouth and beak to sounds. From my point of view it contributes tremendously to the humor and the enjoyment of watching.
I concentrate on people's lips while conversing to the point of becoming self-conscious of making the speaker self-concious about their own mouths. I have to tell myself to look at their eyes and knock it off with the concentrated lipreading all the time. It is a habit. Some people are very easy to lipread and others are not. The woman above appears to be exaggerating, at least she is extremely clear. Some people simply give no mouth movement at all, almost as if they are being ventriloquist. It is frustrating.
Try it. This site is for teaching lipreading, and I have to wonder why they used this thin-lipped woman, she is maddeningly difficult to lipread. Similar to a previous girlfriend. Pleasantly attractive face, she shows no tongue at all for her "L" and "TH" sounds, and I rely on that to distinguish between similar words. She speaks demurely. It seems to me she is trying to confound lip readers and not assist newbies.
lipreading.org
I did okay on the game, but I did not score 100. After decades of concentrating on people's lips, and I mean concentrating, I still perform poorly for someone so practiced.
There is a lot of room for misunderstanding. More room for misunderstanding than there is room for understanding. Thus the signs to back all that up. The signs are merely enhanced situational gesticulation. As to sign language, coming from hearing, first you learn finger spelling so now you can say anything you want, then you learns signs so that you don't have to finger spell so much, as you concentrate on lipreading so all that drops to background. Try the test and see for yourself how well or how poorly you do. Experts do not do much better than you.
Now, with that out of the way, here is this video of Michelle Obama saying "All this for just a flag."
Others insist they see "All this for a fucking flag."
Others insist they see "All this for a damn flag."
I see, "All this for a flag." Then Barak, "Uh huh."
How hip.
That is what I see on my own without any help or suggestion, removed from context. It appears quite clear. And that is with realizing all the related phrases that are possible and knowing the phonemes are similar. Some people are easy, and some people are not, and Michelle Obama is easy. And I see that because I held the same sentiment myself, that is my context, not because I was told. Because I shared the same sentiment with Michelle Obama. When I was ten. I did ask what is all the fuss about folding and care for a flag? Why all the somber ritual of folding, the bagpipes, the marching, the taps? Come on, it's just a piece of cloth! I could not comprehend all the reverence centering on piece of fabric. I could not get off the idea of the flag being the focus and not all that is behind the solemnity of the event being closed. The whole representational show seemed overwrought, and tremendously boring besides. My parents were shocked by my childish uncomprehending attitude, they acted as if they were shocked. I saw my dad struggle to muster the patience to not hit me, to convey to his thick-headed lad the reverence is for what the flag symbolizes. But then I was stuck with pondering reverence for symbols. I just was not feeling it. It was a very long time, I can be quite thick about sensitive things, before I accepted the flag as symbol for all that goes into patriotic impulse and the action motivated by patriotic feelings, the bravery and suffering the flag represents, all the wars that get boiled down to "the flag was still there."
And now I'm a sobbing mess. All it takes is a good rendition of the National Anthem a picture of a flag and I am reduced to a contorted tear-streaked face unable to speak.
It is clear that Michelle Obama holds my ten-year old attitude. Even to the point of being wife to president of United States, and it is clear too her husband shares the same aloof sentiment. There is a huge gulf between us. I honestly believe the flag means to these two people their ticket to a luxurious life and that is all that it means to them. For the president of the United States to chew gum at 70th anniversary of D-Day shows that point again and proves it to the people there subjected to his prepubescent insouciance amid their solemnity and reverence. He, like me at ten, just flatly does not understand, does not feel it. He feels something else. Boredom most likely. He and she have failed to internalize what all that means. It means nothing to them. Just boring ritual.
Washington Times
The video is a few years old. The 10th anniversary of 9-11. Time enough for these two to have grown up, even if it takes the office of Presidency for the growing to occur. I dare say this same or similar immature attitude is broadly shared by their supporters. They deny it, of course, they must. But here it is on her lips, go ahead and remove 70%, it is still right there to see, and on his arrogant gesticulated concurrence.
49 comments:
You mean Love is NOT all around at the countless flag waving events these two have been?
Love IS all around but not in them... maybe.
Have you heard there are none so blind as those that will not see?
If they are not feeling it... are they posing it? are they faking it?
Is faking good enough for government work?
Maybe the first lady was tired that day.
People say awful things when tired
I just mouthed the words - "I cannot wait until Jane and Peter Fonda are no longer here on planet earth. The air will be sweater, and our days will be filled with joy."
I confess I don't see that. I can't discern anything in her lip movements.
I've noticed some of my patients move their lips along with mine when I am talking to them. Are they reading my lips? They don't seem to have any trouble hearing.
To me it looks like Michelle is saying exactly that. Poor thing. No time to respect old glory? Perhaps she would appreciate this flag. or this one. or this one.
Cool Chip. I scored well on beginning lip reading.
Sydney -My aunt used to do that. She also often finished my sentences.
Off to watch Philomena.
How was the race Lem?
I was wondering if you could shed some light on the deletions of posts from the thread last night, specifically from the half hour preceding when you shut down the thread.
Did you delete posts, and if so why?
April Apple,
I haven't seen Philomena, but from what I've read the nuns in the movie are, well, less than sympathetic characters. Anyway, here's something worth reading about it: Nuns accuse Philomena filmmakers of fabrication
Recently I was going into Walmart and was asked to buy a crepe paper poppy in support of the veterans. It was an older couple, and the man was chatting with me. Among other things he said that Jane Fonda was at an event in Virginia (I think) and a veteran spit in her face. I said good and you can't fix stupid.
Geof is pronounced "Jeff" right? I think so. Then the site is pronounced Deaf Jeff, and that reminds me of my best friend.
Did I mention the time I encountered Jeff at the back of a very crowded club on hot summer evening. At one time we were best friends then I changed to work the day shift and Jeff continued night shift to have the days with his horses. We didn't see each since. He flipped out upon seeing me there, just appear in the crowd. I was still in fairly bad shape, and I mean flipped. Visibly flipped right the fuck out. Nearly pissed himself right there. He had heard rumors after I caught pneumonia that I was dead and accepted all that as fact for at least a year. All the deaf kids thought that same thing. From his perspective he was seeing me come back to life. Or seeing a ghost. He kept saying, "I thought you were dead. I thought you were dead. I thought you were dead" then he covered his face in his hands and turned completely red and wet and squeezed me like I'm a lime and juice would come squirting out of me. Neither of us drink, so Cokes it was for us while everyone around us became drunk. The people who took me there broke off because they couldn't intrude or participate in something that deeply personal and I couldn't interpret all that, and we caught up again later to leave. It was the best reunion type thing ever. And I haven't seen him since.
Sweet story, Chip. I wish I could see you sign.
"All this for a flag." If those are the words that came out of her mouth, it's my hope they will someday return to her, her daughters or grandchildren with deeper meaning. Unless there is a serious change in protocol, the likelihood of one of them being asked to accept on behalf of a grateful nation the carefully folded flag used to cover the casket of the 44th President of the United States, is very great. Not only that, the 44th and wife will probably be expected to attend the services for the 39th, 41st, 42nd, 43rd, if any of them go first. That's a lot of ceremonial honoring and grateful nationing to be enduring and much closer to home. Hopefully she'll have some gum in her purse.
On this site, which looks at urban legends, the writer says it's not true that she said "all this for a damn flag":
"The closest thing to expert testimony we do have comes from the hearing-impaired viewers who took part in a Sep. 2011 discussion about the video on AllDeaf.com. The impression of all concerned was that the First Lady's private comments to President Obama about the flag ceremony were appreciative, not derogatory.
The majority view was that she said, "It's amazing how they fold that flag." Others thought she may have said the words, "I wonder if they flew that flag."
I looked at the video several times, and I go with the “fold that flag” interpretation, especially as the video slows down.
Lydia, thank you for that. I do prefer what you've found. And like I said, with as much practice as I do, and after this long, I'm still not that great at this.
Lydia, those interpretations do not fit her facial expression, which was one of contempt.
Dismissive contempt.
I'm a face reader.
I agree with Pogo.
If despair and contempt is in one's heart, despair and contempt will be detected wherever one looks.
Thanks for the info and link regarding the nun's take. Lydia.
She added the film ..."does not tell the whole truth and in many ways is very misleading."'
I assume I will be told half-truths and shown trumped up emotionalism in any Hollywood production, especially films based on actual events.
It was a good movie. Very sad and depressing, but fairly well done.
The nuns were "not all bad".
My hairdresser told me all about it. Coincidently - she lead me through the story line of the movie in the same manner in which
the character played by Judy Dench told her detective/journalist the cover to cover storyline in her romance novels.
Actually, that's what I find troubling about so many so called intellectuals. They go into Hollywood movies and afterwards they think - - wow I just watched the truth.
All these people who watch "Wolf of Wall street" think that.
Meade, what you say is true. And what Lydia says is the reverse of that and I hope it is true. I do prefer that interpretation.
I do have despair in my heart and I do see it everywhere, and it does shape my interpretation and it shapes others. Read the comments on YouTube, (always so righteous and thoughtful, such a good gauge innit) And also shaded by my own previous childish thoughts, as I said. But Obama has a real problem with military and I think too Michelle.
Linked on Insty this morning. Not just me thinking this, not just despair in my heart, but attitude and relationship between military and executive branch due to Obama's politically motivated actions that affect them directly and us indirectly and other despairing actions also directly (like opening immigration illegally, changing South American countries in the process, unloading busloads of immigrants [children!] onto border states.)
It's falling apart. The consulate at Benghazi, The tepid received speech as West Point stating diplomacy will replace military responses for now on. And now trading 5 top Taliban prisoners directly, for one deserter. The lid is off military silence.
Insty's link: Real Clear Politics.
http://tinyurl.com/khjkqln
Despair in their hearts and seeing it all around, by observable action. And I see it on both of their lips. Even while she's being sort of a ventriloquist about it, and even with tons of area for misinterpretation. It fits their observable documented behavior. To the point that even military top eunuchs are speaking up. In place of enlisted men who cannot.
It's a rule not to speak anything at all political -- a military rule you cannot behave politically. Even say political things, especially against the CIC. Such a shock to see the person you despise as civilian, that person's portrait framed and hovering prominently in military buildings, even visitor centers at Ft. Logan cemetery. It's jolting to see Bush up there, if you hate him, even if you don't hate him, such a shock to see Obama veritably worshiped it seems when you know a guy like that does not deserve the respect, has not earned it. But there you go, he's their boss.
I doubt, or I wonder if Obama's ever saw a flag being folded by a group of stoic men in uniform into a tight triangle so that the stars show.
My brother did that all the time in Boy Scouts, it was one of his favorite things to do. To be the lead guy doing the folding. I did a couple of times, but I was just one of the boys holding. Then the flag itself presented in an impossibly tight, perfectly wrapped triangle fit for presentation case. My father's funeral flag is in the possession of my brother in such a presentation case. He made pens from the bullet casings cast off at Dad's funeral. He takes those things to heart deeply. I doubt seriously Obamas have anything remote to that in their experience. But they do have the reverse in their observable experience. That is the context that determines my and others interpretation. It is apparent on their lips. I would prefer otherwise. But like I said, I'm not that great at lipreading. I am pretty good at reading gesticulations. I realize it's possible I'm wrong. But again you're right. I see despair everywhere.
May I ask, what do you see?
Lectured to by the Heart of Darkness. It has been a Days of Wine and Roses weekend for the dysfunctional couple. It would be Bloody Sunday if it wasn't virtually all sycophants over there now.
Michelle shakes her head at the end. Is she disgusted?
Excellent post 9:57, Chip.
I am a professional reader of body language, that is derision on Flotus face.
Everything is awesome for Meade, because he gets to suck at governmental teats for at least $170,000 per anum. AND he gets to look down on anyone with any standards at all as being one of the little people.
No morals save personal whim plus lots of free money = happiness.
Neither Michelle nor hubby show amazement or wonder in their faces. How can lip reading ignore that?
It's quite possible she's a victim of resting bitch face, or whatever it's called. I know I am. Her closed lips and head shake with closed eyes could be one of 'wow, that's really impressive mmm mmm mmm.' And Obama agrees with her and gives a little smile of agreement.
Lem, could you please respond to my question about Meade alleging that you deleted his sexuality based insults on the Cake thread the other day?
He is claiming to not remember whether he deleted his comments or whether you did, and I want to get the truth before deciding what actions to take.
Thanks
That's the most charitable reading, deb, and I can accept that.
Yes Deborah -that would add up as an option.
Sad that we assume so much anti-Americanism coming from the President and his wife.
"Sad that we assume so much anti-Americanism coming from the President and his wife. "
And yet you can't quite seem to stop yourselves from assuming. Why do you think that is?
You didn't click on any of Chip's links, did you, Meade.
Any idea what happened to Obama after he spoke at West Point?
Even fellow democrats cringed.
*Burp*
Why do you think that is?
Because they spent decades listening lovingly to a minister who preached "GOD DAMN America!" Becauee Michelle openly stated that she was never proud of America until she Barack was about to become President. Because Obama grabs his crotch at ceremonies honoring our past, and the sacrifices of our forebears. Because Obama chews gum a a ceremony honoring the dead. Because Obama can't bring himself to learn how to show the simple courtesy of addressing military personnel using proper terminology.
I could go on, but there is no point? You, like the your wife, and like the Obamas, want nothing less than the destruction of this nation and its traditions, particularly if you get to loot the country and rape the corpse afterwards.
"That was the first time I was proud of my country." Words uttered by FLOTUS during the 2008 campaign. That might be germane to this, don't you think??
A key sentence from Barack Obama's "Dreams From My Father" encapsulates Obama's philosophy and guiding principles:
Barack Obama had written that during his brief sojourn in the private sector he felt like "a spy behind enemy lines."
A job in America made Obama feel like a spy behind enemy lines. I wish some enterprising journalist would ask Obama what he meant by that.
"But Obama has a real problem with military and I think too Michelle."
I've been reading about that.
Excellent penultimate comment, April.
Thanks, Chickl. (Though I gotta go look up what penultimate means ;)
)
@Icepick. Because they spent decades listening lovingly to a minister who preached "GOD DAMN America!"
Yes. And we are reminded that we are not allowed to talk about that.
The 2 Obama's looked incredibly uncomfortable @ the Fort Hood memorial. Fishes out of water. These aren't who we hang out with. What's w/ all these flags and saluting. This lip reading does not come in a vacuum. It is consistent w/ prior words and deeds.
@ Lem - Real Clear Politics is pretty even handed. Usually they skew left.It's nice to see actual journalism now and then.
from your link:
Former Navy SEAL Steve Robinson, who works with the P.O.W. Network, says he is personally disgusted that the United States has now negotiated with terrorists, because it sends a signal to the enemy that if they capture an American soldier, the U.S. will eventually bargain with them.
He's equally disgusted to learn that soldiers from Bergdahl's unit were made to sign nondisclosure agreements not to talk about the missing soldier, the incriminating note he left behind or his odd behavior. Now that those agreements have lapsed, we've seen a parade of Bergdahl's colleagues on TV calling him a "deserter," a "traitor" and even a "collaborator."
"Every SEAL I have heard from (believes) this is the worst possible deal that could have been struck," Robinson said. "And five to one? It should have been the other way around," he said in an agitated tone. "The entire lineup of the top five has now been turned back to the bad guys!"
Lem, could you please answer as to whether you deleted Meade's comment where he was using "gayness" as a slur the other night.
Satire.
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