"The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor, according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources." (read more)
Reaction...
Blogger :
"Let me just say here and now that this shit really pisses me off."
Twitter @Fenway_Nation :
"I wish @BarackObama cared half as much about our veterans as he did a gay #NFL draft pick"
84 comments:
This pisses me off too. I mentioned it here the other day in the thread about the EPA porno guy.
But where's the evidence that this is Obama's fault? Are people just going to use these veterans to score political points?
"I blamed Obama for it, we can move on."
It's become too much of a running joke to say: "It's for the children."
No we should not move on.
Our Vets are treated like crap. right now there is an American citizen in jail in Cuba and where is Obama? We're just asking.
I don't blame him for it, but I do blame him if he stands by and does nothing.
one more time!
The blame here isn't for Obama and the dems alone. The treatment of our Vets in VA hospitals and outside VA hospitals is appalling and to my understanding has been deteriorating for some time. Finally a "news" network exposes the truth. (Which I find extraordinary considering the sad state of our news media.)
Now is the time for Obama and all of our political leaders, in both parties, to step up.
Will it be crickets?
We have plenty of money to burn on failed policies, failed government sponsored web sites (both nationally and in many states), Six billion lost at State Dept, failed green energy boondoggles and IRS raises and bonuses, etc... Nothing in there for our Vets?
"I wish @BarackObama cared half as much about our veterans as he did a gay #NFL draft pick"
Money talks...loudly...and gets a bite of POTUS ear. Veterans, who are poor, not so much.
But April is right. This isn't just an Obama problem. and isn't going away with the expiration of his term. It's a Democrat priority problem. Their answer is "let's just not have an more vets or any more wars." It's also the Rand Paul solution.
But where's the evidence that this is Obama's fault? Are people just going to use these veterans to score political points?
"I blamed Obama for it, we can move on."
The politics of the day...or decade. I blame (name of president/political party).
Rather than any critical self-examination by politcos, or critical examination by the media.
But where's the evidence that this is Obama's fault? Are people just going to use these veterans to score political points?
"I blamed Obama for it, we can move on."
The politics of the day...or decade. I blame (name of president/political party).
Rather than any critical self-examination by politcos, or critical examination by the media.
I've been treated well by the VA, as have most vets, but the demands on it have increased greatly in recent years. I'm surprised they do as well as they have with the deluge of vets wanting treatment. Where else can they go to get treated and have somebody else pay for it?
As a non-combatant in Vietnam I never felt like I deserved that kind of a deal but it was too good to pass up. When my cataracts developed the VA hospital, which brings in a local ophthalmologist on contract, took care of me, along with a bunch of other geezer vets. The waiting period, as I recall, was only a couple months.
So the VA can be great if you can get into it, but I wonder if it will get sucked into the ACA eventually. Or maybe Obama's citizen army will displace military vets and take over those facilities. Who the hell knows?
Now is the time for Obama and all of our political leaders, in both parties, to step up.
Will it be crickets?
No. They can hold up little white cards with some hashtag hashery statement on it and take pictures of themselves with sad pouty looking faces. Post it all over the internet.
There.....problem fixed. Right?
Appointing Shinseki was a clear statement of intent and a slap in the face.
It also smacks of Miss sarah's death panels.
phx said...
But where's the evidence that this is Obama's fault?
Shinseki is his man. And it's his business (and, dare I say, his job) to know and correct it.
If it were Dubya, would you still say that?
If it were Dubya, would you still say that?
You're always free to point it out when I uphold double standards. It will be more convincing to provide a real-time example than just asserting that's what I do.
Appointing Shinseki was a clear statement of intent and a slap in the face.
Why was appointing this four-star medaled General with his long list of medals, awards and citations a slap in the face? Other than serve his country admirably what had he done wrong that you considered his appointment a slap in the face?
I don't think you want a solution to veterans problems. You want a political scalp.
I use the VA. When I'm sitting in the waiting room, there are two pictures, one of Obama and the other of Shinseki.
When I'm sitting in the waiting room, there are two pictures, one of Obama and the other of Shinseki.
I'm so surprised they aren't pictures of Lenin and Marx.
Imagine though, in the VA waiting room. A picture of the commander-in-chief and another of the Secty of Veterans Affairs.
Kind of says everything, doesn't it?
phx said...
Appointing Shinseki was a clear statement of intent and a slap in the face.
Why was appointing this four-star medaled General with his long list of medals, awards and citations a slap in the face? Other than serve his country admirably what had he done wrong that you considered his appointment a slap in the face?
To start with, ask a Ranger.
After that, take a long look at his tenure as COS. Not the most competent guy around.
But he was a minority from a Democrat state, wasn't he?
But he was a minority from a Democrat state, wasn't he?
Nice of you to slap a veteran with innuendo because you don't like his political party affiliation.
phx said...
Imagine though, in the VA waiting room. A picture of the commander-in-chief and another of the Secty of Veterans Affairs.
Kind of says everything, doesn't it?
It's a statement of who is in charge.
AllenS I understand your point and I have no problem holding the Secretary accountable for what happens on his watch.
I misunderstood your point I think.
The VA was like this when I was a kid and my Dad and grandad used it. It's not the current administration's fault alone, but it is the fault of the philosophy the current administration, who want to use this top down government managed approach to everything. There is a reason you hear so many of these horror stories about the old Soviet health care, and China's, and Cuba's, and the NHS in Briton. Government bureaucracy as a function of it's very design and implementation fosters and creates such apathy, indifference, incompetence, cover up and evil. It just does. It's bad enough that we need to run the government via government which manages to make the cesspool that is Congress. Ask yourself why would you put that system and those people and their picks in charge of anything you cared about if you had a choice.
phx said...
But he was a minority from a Democrat state, wasn't he?
Nice of you to slap a veteran with innuendo because you don't like his political party affiliation.
Oh, spare me. Shinseki was being pushed as Inouye's replacement in the Senate before this came along.
And, lest's face it, it's the way the Democrat Party's operated for 80 years.
PS Your whining about Shinseki's being a veteran and, therefore, is beyond the pale is Ritmoesque in its desperation to duck the issue.
If it were Dubya, would you still say that?
You're always free to point it out when I uphold double standards. It will be more convincing to provide a real-time example than just asserting that's what I do.
The prosecution rests.
Hey, all I did was ask a question.
Money isn't the problem. Priorities are the problem.
The IRS, The EPA, The VA, The State Dept., etc.
It seems that the primary products of government agencies today are scandals, and waste, embarrassment, lawlessness, and harm to or failure to citizens.
Another.
Except possibly for Treasury, is there a cabinet department in the Administration that isn't mired in incompetence and/or scandal?
This is the type of radical dementia we have running our nation.
None of the waste and corruption matter. Hillary and Obama have big fundraisers to attend.
I can't believe this story. I mean, during the last election season all sorts of people--including a Noble laureate--explained how MItt Romney was a foolish ideologue for wanting to partially privatize VA hospitals:
What Mr. Romney and everyone else should know is that the V.H.A. is a huge policy success story, which offers important lessons for future health reform.
But I'm sure that VHA officials felt no pressure at all to deliver good numbers, whatever the actual level of care may have been. Nope, none at all.
Just as I'm sure that all that IRS attention on conservative groups was entirely the work of a couple of rogue agents.
And Evil Video Guy really, really was believed to be the cause of the Benghazi attack.
Yes, I'm quite sure of that. There's no culture of dishonesty in this administration. Just ask Jay Carney if you don't believe me.
edutcher said...
Except possibly for Treasury, is there a cabinet department in the Administration that isn't mired in incompetence and/or scandal?
Uh, you are aware that the IRS is part of the Treasury Department? Right? No scandal?
Chip S. said...
I can't believe this story. I mean, during the last election season all sorts of people--including a Noble laureate--explained how MItt Romney was a foolish ideologue for wanting to partially privatize VA hospitals:
What is the basis for the assumption that privatizing the health care for an unusually sick population with unusual health care needs and generally limited funds would be either desirable or successful? Neither insurance firms nor hospitals have been anxious to take on this population in the past.
The only thing keeping the dems afloat is their sycophant media and talk show hosts like Conannana Obrien.
If the truth about this administration's colossal ineptitude and malfeasance was investigated and delivered by an honest curious press, in an honest -just-the-facts-please- manner, they'd be sunk.
Not that I take joy in saying that. We need a healthy political system. We don't have one. No -leftists, it has nothing to do with the tea party. This is all on you. The democrats are free to drop their radical behavior, their radical devotion to failed 19th century ideologies, their obsession with division and creating more of it, their blaming the victim, their non-stop obsession with non-stop fund-raising.
Dems are free to heal their party, and also, in so doing, help we the people. WE are sinking too.
I guess that's why we get non-stop vilification of certain types of billionaires. from Harry Reid. It's all a distraction. Of course Harry Reid has selective billionaire outrage. Do you leftists who look up to this guy agree with this? Really? How embarrassing and sad.
Sorry, ARM, but veterans are no more sicker or unusual than other persons seeking treatment in a hospital.
You just think that we are unusual.
And, just for the record, more Americans are shot and wounded in the big cities of this country than in any current war.
@ARM--Do you know what a voucher is, or how it works?
Understand something about the Veterans Administration and the VHA: At one time, in the 1960's and early 1970's, the VHA was promised as health care for ALL veterans. You were told that when you were drafted and upon separation. Worse, you were told that upon enlistment (is that a "contract" or what?) that you'd have VA health care for life.
Reality Check in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's...you get no or very little VA health care unless: 1.) you have a Purple Heart on your record AND 2.) You have a designated percentage disability on your record...minimum is 60% to receive anything but the most cursory care.
I am grateful that the VA at least does that for the veterans who were seriously wounded, sometimes multiple times. Guys like me who came home walking and talking without disabling injury usually found work that provided health care benefits. A disabled vet might not have been so fortunate due to the pre-existing condition thing...it varied. IMO anyone 50% or more disabled by competent measurement is entitled to VA health care in perpetuity. They paid the price, they damn sure should get the benefit. The rest of us can get by without it...even though it was PROMISED...just another fucking government lie, of course.
This scandal now makes me think that the VHA doesn't even want to provide for the veterans who paid that price in some measure.
WTF is up with that?
And no, Obama didn't make it so, he just left it so...he's a retarded little dolt who believes in narcissistic fairy tales. He doesn't "run" shit, the institutionalized ass licking bureaucrats do. His predecessors paid little attention to VA matters either, both parties...fuck them all.
I already relayed this story - oh about a month ago. I met a painter and his crew at the Steelyards in Boulder. He and his men were working hard painting deteriorated front doors on the complex - and a mighty fine job with only one day to remove, scrape, prime and paint and re-hang. anyway - He told me he works with some of the older vets WWII and Vietnam and they are warehoused in horrible conditions in Denver. They get good benefits from SS and such, but the government takes that money and then provides them with minimal housing options with horrible care. He said many of these vets have horrible unchecked dental issues and often these men are kept on morphine.
Aridog said...
Except possibly for Treasury, is there a cabinet department in the Administration that isn't mired in incompetence and/or scandal?
Uh, you are aware that the IRS is part of the Treasury Department? Right? No scandal?
Some days, it's hard to tell Who's On First?
AllenS said...
Sorry, ARM, but veterans are no more sicker or unusual than other persons seeking treatment in a hospital.
You just think that we are unusual.
This is bullshit on both counts. As Aridog's post makes very clear the VA deals with a medical population that has been seriously injured in US conflicts. Military injuries are different in nature to those found in the general population although there is of course some overlap. It makes sense to create centers that specialize in war injuries and develop the specialized technology for treating those injuries. And, as Aridog points out, before Obamacare most of these veterans would not have been covered by normal insurance because of pre-existing conditions even if they could have found someone competent to treat them.
The VA is not perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
ARM - Your party is a mess.
The VA is not perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative
Death?
Because that is what the Veterans are getting from the VA.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
The VA is not perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative
Death?
These attacks on the VA are really a disgrace. Again, no organization is perfect, but the people who work at the VA, a large fraction of whom are themselves veterans, are doing God's work. Most medical staff avoid Vets like the plague.
This is why this stuff never gets fixed. Someone points out a huge serious problem, and defenders of the status quo (progressives, Ha!) tell us how wonderful the organization is, and the dedication of it's people, like that isn't true of every organization at some level. There are always good people in the trenches, but the people in charge here are the issue.
Then the faux outrage, calls of racism or sexism or some such bullshit and nothing gets fixed. Everything going wrong (and there is a shitload of it) is staying wrong because people on the left have the first instinct to cover their ass, deflect, distract, deny, and attack the messenger. The only thing they really want to fix is elections.
bagoh20 said...
Then the faux outrage, calls of racism or sexism or some such bullshit and nothing gets fixed.
This is also bullshit. The VA is, for all effective purposes, an extension of the military, with the good and bad that entails. Like any medical operation there can be lapses that have serious outcomes. I was listening to the radio the other day and Geraldo Rivera started talking about his experiences at the Hospital for Special Surgery. It is a private hospital, very expensive, that is the top ranked New York hospital for orthopedics. They had completely fucked up his back operation so that he can no longer feel his foot and now has a prominent limp. I took my son there for a knee operation, which did not go well, and he has had problems ever since. Simply saying we should privatize veteran medical care is, in my humble opinion, stupid. There is no money in it and the patient base presents complications that most medical staff prefer not to have to deal with. This is reality, not ideologically driven bullshit.
Like any medical operation there can be lapses that have serious outcomes.
Deflect. Deny. Derail. SOP for Dems.
Take another look at the post you're commenting on, AUM. Or even just the header. It's not about the general risks of surgery. It's about the fact that waiting times for treatment have been falsified, thereby making it less likely that any problems will be fixed.
My limited experience involves seeing the Sioux Falls VA Hospital begin actively recruiting veterans about 2001. I got a nice letter from them telling me that they "wanted to be my health care provider". I was skeptical, but it worked out fine for me.
My previous experienc with the VA was in San Francisco about 1973-74. During the course of my visit there were black vets coming into the waiting room,seeing the long line, getting angry, loud, and pushing their way to the front of the line. It was about an 8 hour wait to see an unfriendly doctor so I never went back.
Chip S. said...
It's not about the general risks of surgery. It's about the fact that waiting times for treatment have been falsified,
If you actually read what I wrote I am responding to the suggestions posted here. Administrators at private institutions don't lie? How did those mortgage backed securities get AAA ratings? The responses are ideological without much or any knowledge of the constraints within which the organization operates.
A Reasonable Man ...I don't think you understood what I said. Or you bent it to fit your narrative. I was backing AllenS, not contradicting him in any way. The sources of some injury conditions may differ, but the people are the same. Shit I came home after half my head was caved in but the Army doctors fixed it nearly perfectly...and I damn sure can't complain. THAT is meaning of the comment I made.
The point is, we as veterans are NOT different...just that many people think we are....we can't help that. That the VA & VHA have reneged on their promises made upon enlistment contract, well...you tell me what that is...I call it bullshit.
Your citation of the ACA as a prior condition remedy is silly, plain and simple...a much easier and less complex plan has always been available to solve that dilemma, but Obama and minions expressly choose to ignore it entirely...even though a liberal Democrat proposed it in 2004.
Get me right, understand me, I worked, as a "fed" under Clinton, Bush, and Obama (and I still consult periodically) and I will tell you that all their shit stinks. First liar among them stands no chance. Obama has coasted on the fuck ups of his predecessors, so he's an even bigger fuck up. He has fixed nothing.
I listened and watched CSPAN for the entire 3-4 hour Senate Armed service Committee hearing with the entire JCS present. Other than the Navy CNO and his Marine Corp equivalent, the entire collection of chiefs sucked big time...whimpering dolts. I felt like hurling chunks half way through.
I am a verbose asshole...AllenS is a concise man...but we speak the same language with the same understanding. Don't mistake either of us as opposed to each other.
A R M said ...
The VA is, for all effective purposes, an extension of the military, ...
Jesus H Christ, I give up, man. You just do not know what you are talking about.
Having differences of opinion is one thing, posing nonsense is another. WTF.
Aridog said...
The sources of some injury conditions may differ, but the people are the same.
The point is, we as veterans are NOT different...just that many people think we are....we can't help that.
I am not saying the people are different and never suggested that, despite what AllenS may think. But, seriously injured combat veterans present a set of medical problems that are different from the general population. This is inarguable.
Administrators at private institutions don't lie? How did those mortgage backed securities get AAA ratings?
Awesome. Those are some garage mahal-quality squirrels right there.
But since you asked, those MBS's were rated by Moody's on the basis of a model that failed to correctly specify the geographical pattern of housing defaults.
Which has absolutely nothing to do w/the VHA's lies.
Aridog said...
Jesus H Christ, I give up, man. You just do not know what you are talking about.
Having differences of opinion is one thing, posing nonsense is another. WTF.
When I go to the local VA hospital I have to pass a military checkpoint. What other hospitals would this be true for? It is true that it primarily treats people after their military career has ended but it's sole purpose is to provide support for military veterans. It has no purpose other than a military one. If the military didn't exist there would be no need for VA hospitals.
So, what is your point, exactly.
Chip S. said...
But since you asked, those MBS's were rated by Moody's on the basis of a model that failed to correctly specify the geographical pattern of housing defaults.
This is a remarkably naive analysis of the situation. It is a view that may not be universally shared by those who have any knowledge about the conflicts of interest involved in running a ratings agency.
(CNN) -- At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, many of whom were placed on a secret waiting list.
The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor, according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources.
For six months, CNN has been reporting on extended delays in health care appointments suffered by veterans across the country and who died while waiting for appointments and care. But the new revelations about the Phoenix VA are perhaps the most disturbing and striking to come to light thus far.
Internal e-mails obtained by CNN show that top management at the VA hospital in Arizona knew about the practice and even defended it.
From the CNN link.
ARM- You're defending that? How very reasonable. You really cannot condemn anything if it's on your team's watch. Noted. Again.
A R M said...
This is inarguable.
Only to someone who has no experience with veterans. You can get similar injuries on most any big city urban street corner. They are NOT unique. Even the bomb injuries are not unique...think Boston.
A veteran is simply a man or woman who volunteered or was conscripted to serve where others preferred not to tread. We don't expect anything for that but that the promise made then be honored now....and they are not in cases like the subject of this thread.
As I said earlier...both parties are fuck ups and could care less. Obama is even more clueless than average ... if he wasn't he'd move heaven and earth to remedy the scandal now, not later. He is POTUS and has the power.
Fucking A...Bush gave us the mother fucking Department of Homeland Security...Obama can damn fucking A sure rectify the VHA in short fucking order.
But he won't.
ARM said...
So, what is your point, exactly. (?)
Simply...that VA and VHA is NOT part of the military. Never has been, never will be.
Aridog said...
Simply...that VA and VHA is NOT part of the military.
And, I never said it was. It is unquestionably part of the support apparatus for the military.
ARM said ...
When I go to the local VA hospital I have to pass a military checkpoint...
Really? Photos please. Or at least a citation. I've been in several of these facilities and no military check point...at best a contract renta-cop operation if the VA is on a military post (such as Fort Harrison in Montana) ...however never ever when entering a VA facility off a military reservation. Shit, they even got rid of the USMC guards at Norfolk, Little Creek/Fort Story, and New London Submarine Base. Renta-cop is it....been to all, seen it all, worked in all of them.
Aridog said...
Even the bomb injuries are not unique...think Boston.
You are really stretching to make your point here. How many IEDs would that be in the US versus the thousands seen by military personnel overseas?
Gotta go, but here's a small contribution to AUM's continuing education:
Because rating agencies often lacked
extensive historical loss experience for innovative
structures or transactions based on untested assets (for example, subprime mortgages), they used different (and sometimes inappropriate) analytical tools and assumptions to determine the risk of default and losses. Their computer-driven simulation models—like those used by investment
banks—were based on market assumptions that
proved to be faulty or incomplete. For example,
there was a failure to appreciate default correlation
within and across pools of assets due to common underlying economic factors such as the housing market or to contemplate declines in housing prices.
But April made the key point @ 4:23.
I give up. VA and VHA are not part or in any way an "extension" of the military. It is an organization that has consistently, over the years, reduced support to veterans. It is a miracle that they don't just say fuck you to all veterans.
Oh, wait...in many places they apparently are saying just that.
Aridog, I get that you are not a big fan of the VA but your primary complaint has very little to do with the VA but with whoever decides on what fraction of the ex-military personnel get VA care. That is a political decision. It has nothing to do with the VA. If the politicians want to hire more doctors and nurses they can then treat a larger fraction of the veteran population.
How many IEDs would that be in the US versus the thousands seen by military personnel overseas?
How many do you think it would take. 1 or 10,000...the result is different? How?
Why do you think veterans are different? What is it about them? About us? You've alluded to going to VA facilities...so are you one of us or not?
... your primary complaint has very little to do with the VA but with whoever decides on what fraction of the ex-military personnel get VA care.
Really now? Nothing to do with the VA per se...just the mother fuckers who run it? I fail to grasp a difference.
As I said, I'm grateful the VA doesn't just declare benefits at an end and just bury people. They are quite capable of that in the class of senior executives you cite.
And, yeah, I do get pissed off when promised X and delivered zot. Now I read that even more of us get zot?
I am somehow supposed to be disinterested?
You really have no idea how this shit angers me. I'm old and no longer count. I get that too.
Aridog, I am not a veteran. I am not suggesting that there is anything inherently different about veterans. I am referring solely to the medical problems of injured combat veterans. I am suggesting that it would be very difficult to privatize this set of medical patients. Private hospitals are not shy about advancing their interests into any new and potentially profitable field. I have not heard them clamoring to get access to the VA patient base.
And, for the record, I am not defending the VA administrators who lied about wait times. This is obviously indefensible. I am suggesting that the knee jerk ideologically driven criticism of the VA is inappropriate since they do important work.
knee jerk ideologically driven criticism of the VA is inappropriate since they do important work.
Yes. And evidently they do it very badly.
What we can't criticize the VA now?
Are they black? Or gay? Or transgendered?
Those are the only ones who are supposed to get a free pass.
The VA guys are all old white men. They are an approved target based on the rules of engagement as promulgated by the current commander in chief. Get with it!
I think we should listen to our Veterans here like Aridog and AllenS.
They have direct contact with the VA. They know what they are talking about.
The rest of us should show some respect and STFU!
So does Congress decide what to fund the VA or does it not? As I understand, it's a wing of HHS. Has the Tea Congress prioritized funding of HHS and its branches?
I have no interest in whatever tussle the devotees have to this. I basically skimmed the thread. I've heard reports of the atrocious state of VAs (or was it Walter Reed) for some time. Let the other pundits beat each other up over this one.
But it's hard to see how it's an issue of anything other than funding.
So, that said: Who funds the VA?
The VHA is a component under the VA, which is a cabinet level department.
WaPo, 2013:
One federal department stands conspicuously protected from the automatic budget cuts falling across the government: the Department of Veterans Affairs with its 300,000 employees and $140 billion budget, a mammoth agency second in size only to the Defense Department.
Apparently it's not so much a funding issue as it is a management issue.
Obama's minions couldn't very well talk about all those cost savings they were going to realize thru the greater efficiency of centralized administration when the VHA is this similar to the British NHS.
VA Inspector General report from 2007:
"While waiting time inaccuracies and omissions from electronic waiting lists can be caused by a lack of training and data entry errors, we also found that schedulers at some facilities were interpreting the guidance from their managers to reduce waiting times as instruction to never put patients on the electronic waiting list. This seems to have resulted in some “gaming” of the scheduling process."
Trooper York said...
I think we should listen to our Veterans here like Aridog and AllenS.
They have direct contact with the VA. They know what they are talking about.
The rest of us should show some respect and STFU!
You are ignoring another veteran, Dad Bones, who said...
"My limited experience involves seeing the Sioux Falls VA Hospital begin actively recruiting veterans about 2001. I got a nice letter from them telling me that they "wanted to be my health care provider". I was skeptical, but it worked out fine for me."
The VA is not perfect but it is a lot better than it used to be and it performs a service that no one else is rushing to perform. Criticism or praise of the VA should not be a partisan issue, if you have any respect for its mission.
I'll admit my view tends to be egocentric. With so many of my friends having no health insurance at all I'm the one they envy, hence I've never taken a critical look at the VA. The injured vets who did the dirty work of war and need care because of it should never be put on a waiting list.
I'm also the wrong guy to raise hell with the VA. I once drove 100 miles for an appointment and discovered they gave it to someone else. I shrugged my shoulders and came back a couple days later.
You sound like a reasonable man. There are too few of them.
You sound like a reasonable man. There are too few of them.
My father was a veteran and trusted the VA system. He died after they performed on a man in his eighties of congestive heart failure. I believe they did this only due to him have great insurance from a former job. His doctor spoke in front of him and us daily telling him he was dying and losing his mind. He was not. His room mate called me when one of the nurses in charge abused him due to his catheter coming loose in middle of night and finally he did die with stage four bed sores due to lack of being turned in the bed. Beware. I am so furious that this proud man died such a humiliating death at the hands of these people and boy do they cover things up. When he died all I got was a survey about his care received. Nothing ever came of it. I supposed it is buried somewhere too. We should have class action suit as those people in these hospitals died because people like my dad gave them a free country. Shame on them all.
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