Thursday, May 22, 2014

Althouse: At some point the taking of offense itself becomes offensive.

Althouse takes on the 9/11 memorial offended...
Maybe out of respect for the dead, no one who still walks the face of the earth should ever laugh or take pleasure in anything every (ever?) again. More than 100 billion human beings have died, perhaps right where you are standing/sitting/reclining right now. How dare you ever do anything? Look out your window and visualize the ghosts of all the human beings who, over the course of history and prehistory, died within that view. Will you mourn for them... ceaselessly... until you are one of them? If they could look back and see you mourning for them... ceaselessly... until the day you join them, what would they think of you? If they saw you enjoying a grilled cheese sandwich, would they think: How dare you!?
Is that safe?


68 comments:

Shouting Thomas said...

Althouse is only against this kind of offense mongering if the issue is not one that offends her.

Synova said...

If she's talking about the "Omg they're gonna have a restaurant" thing... along with the gift shop...

Well, most museums do. Granted, only an idiot eats there because it's always overpriced, but the gift shops sometimes have something interesting and affordable...

But you know... I bet they *also* have toilets.

How offensive it that?

Sh*t is way more offensive than food.

Icepick said...

Read more

Are you threatening me?

ricpic said...

The argument that life goes on and therefore allowances must be made for life going on - as eating, as consumption - everywhere, that is a shallow argument. There are to be no sacred spaces? That's what a memorial does: it sacralizes an event or an individual. Would Althouse be okay with a gift shop and a cafeteria at the Lincoln Memorial or the Jefferson Memorial? On the actual battlefield at Gettysburg? Almost certainly not. Then what's going on? What's going on is "Get over it, folks. The country deserved 9/11." Ask Schmendrik, he'll telly a.

Icepick said...

Ricpic, I thought there was a gift shop in the Lincoln Memorial.

There's definitely one in the Capital Building. You can even buy congressmen or senators if you've got enough moolah. But maybe that's not the same thing.

chickelit said...

[Putting this comment here instead of there]

There certainly is a bookstore at the visitor center at the USS Arizona, within sight of where the boats leave for the Memorial. I know because I had the audacity to search through it for a copy of the video they show there. There's also a large food court over towards where the USS Bowfin is docked. There are bathrooms there too. Horrors of convenience.

Unknown said...

You people can't stop talking about Althouse and Meade, now can you?

edutcher said...

Yeah, but we know what happened there and how those people died.

That's the issue.

ndspinelli said...

We can't stop talking about the sad duo. We are very scatological.

Unknown said...

Our obsession with trinkets and souvenirs is ridiculous. Sure, dead people are everywhere, but do we need a souvenir shop on top of everything?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I think the real issue is ...the hypocrisy. People went on and on and on about the sacred nature of the World Trade Towers. Those, on the left, who were against Bush because they have an ax to grind and decided to make a point over the bodies of the dead. Those on the right who want to make a statement about how we should be strong, vigilant and whatever on terrorism and it should never happen again. Those who wanted to truly honor those who were murdered in a terrorist action and lost family and friends.

Everyone has an ax to grind.

However.... there is a certain level of circumspection that people should hold themselves to. Do we have gift shops at Auschwitz? Fancy luncheons and souvenirs? GOD... I would hope not.

This is the site of a mass murder. Murder of innocent people for a political reason. To turn it into a Disneyland is to make it trivial.

The point is that you can't make a big effing horrific deal about something and then sell balloons, hats and coffee cups to celebrate the event.

Make up you minds!!! Is this a horrible thing, or is it a circus where people died.

The time frame between the event and the circus is the objectionable issue. People died in the Coliseum at Rome... lots of them... but it was not immediate or present. So....(therefore) selling souvenirs at the Coliseum isn't offensive. Selling souvenirs over the still not composted bodies at the World Trade Center....IS.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Well, that's the narcissist's view, anyway.

The point of remembering them is to remember the senselessness of it, and that they didn't have to die. Unless you think a world of constant building bombardments, halted air traffic, exploding financial centers and thousands dead each day is worth living in, then Althouse can go stuff herself - and her damn lawn jockey.

Lem said...

[Putting this comment here instead of there]

I find that highly offensive ;)

Synova said...

Well, I sort of doubt they're going to sell "falling stockbroker" plushies.

A post card or a book about that day wouldn't seem out of place or disrespectful.

I'm fully open to being offended if it's all Disneyland, just like I was offended when it was supposed to be a tribute to "Peace" and have a bunch of stuff about how bad America is.

I'm not offended, though, about the *fact* of having a gift shop or food. It matters what is done with it.

Lem said...

...on top of everything?

Ha!

You are not going to get away with it.

Leland said...

Sing it Ann, sing it to the mirror!

Lydia said...

At the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., there's a cafe but it's not in the museum proper, it's in an adjacent building. And no food at all can be brought into or consumed in the museum itself.

Would it have killed the developers of the 9/11 museum to have done the same thing?

Lydia said...

The USS Arizona Memorial also know how to do it right:

--Atmosphere on the Memorials
Visitors to the USS Arizona Memorial, the USS Oklahoma Memorial and the USS Utah Memorial should remember that these memorials commemorate those who died as a part of the December 7, 1941 attack. These memorials are places of honor, inspiration, reflection, and quiet contemplation. Visitors are asked to assist in maintaining an atmosphere of decorum.

--Refreshments
We encourage you to plan ahead for your hydration and nutritional needs. While only bottled water is permitted on the actual tour, you are welcome to bring your own food and drinks into the Pearl Harbor Visitor Center. Concessions are available for purchase on-site as well.

--Recommended Dress
Civilian visitors are reminded that they are visiting a site of tremendous loss of life in service to our country. Sandals are permissible, but bathing suits or profane T-shirts are discouraged.

Lem said...

Would it have killed the developers of the 9/11 museum to have done the same thing?

Arrg!

Unknown said...

Lem - you caught my top!

electronic. excellent.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

I agree with DBQ. My thoughts exactly - is there a tacky souvenir shop at Auschwitz? I hope not.

Lem said...

Dude, that was like 10 years ago.

That's not what Althouse is saying, let me be clear!... I just thought I throw that in for my own amusement.

It doesn't get old.

Which is my serious point... the offense in a way is about some people making the memorial about them. Taking ownership as it were.

A balance has to be struck... there is a fine line there somewhere between respect and zealotry. I don't know where it is myself, but, is good to be at least aware of it.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself... or something like that.

Lem said...

Makes me wish we could bottled it and serve it to the guys and gals at treasury.

All that debt with abandon we are accumulating, could use some tempering for the sake of the living and the yet to be alive.

Not to make a sermon out of it.

ndspinelli said...

She and Meade are agitating on threads to get their numbers up. We are SO INSIDE THEIR HEADS! LOL.

Michael Haz said...

Is this the gift shop?

Titus said...

lets not focus on althouse fellow pubes but rather on holiday plans.

the hubby is demanding we head to the vineyard so the vineyard we go. but i hate the vineyard during holiday weekends but i will comply.

where are r u going whores?

for those of you in flyover states you will love the vineyard and all the "touristy" shit. thankfully we are renting a cottage away from the trash in grossie states marveling at the new england charm.

tits and happy holidays!

Titus said...

next weekend I am so looking forward to Truro though. As PTown is touristy, Truro is noncommercial but a bike ride away from the action.

have any of your loser whores been to the outer cape? If not, totally sorry but run don't don't walk to fabulousness!

Ptown is Rupaul and Michael Cunningham and Margaret Cho and Tennesee Williams and Sully while Truro is only fab peeps who won't disclose their names-I am totally Truro this summer.

What r u this summer?

Trooper York said...

Lem you really disapoint me.

Why would you desecrate your own blog like this?

Lem said...

It's soap opera, and then meta soap opera on top of it... rh

The cream rises to the top ;)

Lem said...

Why would you desecrate your own blog like this?

I figured the healing process had been given sufficient time.

I guess some people need more time.

Chip S. said...

Japanese culture is so refined compared to the US.

rcommal said...

Sh*t is way more offensive than food.

Is it? Doesn't that depend, these days? (Or, hell, in other days, as well?)

Premises, premises.

rcommal said...

I should think it quite obvious, but to be clear, just in case, I cannot in any way personally vouch for this firsthand description of tours. However, I found it interesting.

chickelit said...

Trooper York: Why would you desecrate your own blog like this?

I remember somebody asking you that recently.

chickelit said...

rcommal said...
'Sh*t is way more offensive than food.'

Is it? Doesn't that depend, these days? (Or, hell, in other days, as well?)


That doesn't even begin to pass the smell test.

rcommal said...

That doesn't even begin to pass the smell test.

In this, as in many things, I've come to accept that we disagree: and so be it.

rcommal said...

So it is, and thus so be it.

chickelit said...

I'm trying to think of which prepared food -- horrible or otherwise -- replicates the the odor of feces in all its sulfuric glory.

As a simile -- it smells or tastes like shit -- the notion works. But literally?

What synova said made sense.

Maybe it's the term "offensive" which offends? Maybe there's disagreement regarding the proper direction of flow in the alimentary canal?

rcommal said...

Pr[o]mises, Pr[o]mises

rcommal said...

chickelit: You brought up the smell thing (in other words, you "redirected").

I referred to what was written.

rcommal said...

This is the comment of Synova's to which I responded:

aid...

If she's talking about the "Omg they're gonna have a restaurant" thing... along with the gift shop...

Well, most museums do. Granted, only an idiot eats there because it's always overpriced, but the gift shops sometimes have something interesting and affordable...

But you know... I bet they *also* have toilets.

How offensive it that?

Sh*t is way more offensive than food.

May 22, 2014 at 7:25 PM


---

Chip S. said...

I agree w/ rcommal about food vs. sh*t.

People are stuffing their faces in plain sight, leading to mayonnaise dripping down chins, which you've got to admit is pretty nasty. People are sh*tt*ng in private, one hopes.

Also, the use of abbreviations can cause offense inadvertently. Like when the sign over the food court just reads "F* C*t" b/c they ran out of letters.

chickelit said...

People are stuffing their faces in plain sight, leading to mayonnaise dripping down chins, which you've got to admit is pretty nasty.

I know, I've never seen that in public. Maybe I wasn't looking.

People are sh*tt*ng in private, one hopes.

But I see the remains and traces of that all the time in public.

Can you be serious for one moment, Chip?

Why do I hit the same wall every time I cross certain people?

Every fucking time.

Good night.

rcommal said...

Chip S.:

XXOO

Chip S. said...

MWAH!

rcommal said...

chickelit:

you chose to become one of both the "gotcha" and the "mockya" sorts, and as part of that you chose to use info garnered offline--previous to that choice of yours--as ammunition, and this is the essence of the problem that i have with you.

rcommal said...

Indeed, this is a grand and telling song.

rcommal said...

Worry not, however, chickelit: You've got pretty much everyone** we've ever mutually met online on your side. That ought be a good, strong, true comfort to you, as well it should be.

rcommal said...

**including Chip S.

Chip S. said...

Methinks there are only t** of us who've read all 39 comments in a certain earlier thread, rcommal.

sakredkow said...

It would be a pity if something like this ends up further dividing us rather than bringing us closer together.

chickelit said...

r,l wrote:chickelit:

you chose to become one of both the "gotcha" and the "mockya" sorts, and as part of that you chose to use info garnered offline--previous to that choice of yours--as ammunition, and this is the essence of the problem that i have with you.


You've written that few times now r,l and I've been puzzled by it but never bothered to press you for what you meant. I think it's time you gave me more context and or detail regarding what exactly you meant by that so that I can respond to what I consider a serious charge.

@Chip S: I did as much yesterday for phx. :(

Aridog said...

Chickelit asked ...

I'm trying to think of which prepared food -- horrible or otherwise -- replicates the the odor of feces in all its sulfuric glory.

Easy answer...it's Doenjang aka Korean Bean Paste...as it ferments under a loose lid you will think someone took a dump in your kitchen.

chickelit said...

@Ari: On point and sufficient. I had no idea such things existed.

Aridog said...

Now as for the topic of this thread vis a vis Althouse....

Meh. Do. Not. Care.

On point, I live encircled by 40,000 Arab Muslims and they do not reflect the opinions of shithead outfits like CAIR et al ad nauseum. They are fully aware, and several have expressed regret even now years later, of just who caused 9/11 in '01 and in '12. The thing to remember is that those who seek to sanitize the memorial from any reference to Islam are doing so to serve those they represent. I'll leave that to you to connect the dots...but I will tell you, from daily experience, that vast majority do not serve the same masters. In time I hope they will crush the noise makers.

It's not about healing or not, regarding Althouse, and Meade in particular, like who cares? It is recalling the hypocrisy and mendacious behavior. I include Meade's periodic visits here, rarely on topic and he rarely reads what a commenter has said before he fires of a snarky bit.

You recall I am a "preening poser" for my stances on horses, right. Spent my life with them, nursed several to health when ill or injured, and have clearly said, repeatedly in that thread, that I object to the youth of race horses and their early starts. Never-the-less Meade implied caring and staying involved was preening and posing...e.g., he never read a word I said. He doesn't like me perhaps and if so the feeling is mutual plus ten.

I recall his antics on this site early on and how he attacked people personally and vindictively. We'd been effectively shut out of Althouse and the time, and some of us choose not to go back. The wonder is why does Meade come here to comment? I'd suggest any "healing" shortfall is in his, and his wife's, court, not ours. I simply no longer care what Ann or Meade say on any topic. I still have my emails thanking me and saying how I was appreciated....but now I file those under the folder "Con Jobs."

Trooper York said...

They do it right at the Arizona. It is a calm and peaceful place and a wonderful memorial. The 911 memorial should study how they do it and copy it as best they can.

There are plenty of places to eat just steps away from Ground Zero. Not to mention that there will be restaurants and food courts in the new buildings at the site for the workers and businesses who rent there. So there is no need for a concession stand.

It ain't the fuckin' Cineplex in the Roosevelt Field mall.

Trooper York said...

Now on the USS Missouri they have a recreation of the galley right on the ship and I enjoyed a great hot dog! It was a lot of fun and appropriate for that venue.

You have to have a sense of what is appropriate.

chickelit said...

Now on the USS Missouri they have a recreation of the galley right on the ship and I enjoyed a great hot dog! It was a lot of fun and appropriate for that venue.

You have to have a sense of what is appropriate.


I don't recall, but I'll bet they don't serve sushi onboard the Mighty Mo.

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

But perhaps they do, given the mix of visitors. And time does heal.

Trooper York said...

The had a bunch of food that was appropriate for the 1940's when the ship was in it's glory.

As I recall they had chipped beef on toast. I ordered it and grossed everyone out. It was pretty good.

But then I like hash. (the corned beef kind not the smoking kind)

Trooper York said...

I told you the story of what happened when I visited the Missouri in Hawaii. The majority of visitors are Americans who served in the Pacific or who had family that did. My Uncle was in the Navy and served on Guam right after it was liberated. The other big contingent was Japanese tourist.

Now they had these big 50 caliber machine guns on a post like on McHale's Navy had on it's PT boats. So I tell the wife to get her camera ready. I see this Japanese family standing at the rail. I say hell and ask if I can take a photo. They say sure. I say "Smile" and point the machine gun at them.

It is one of my favorite photos.

chickelit said...

I posted my two favorite photos from the USS Missouri: This was my attempt to recreate a historical one, and this shows the Missouri watching over the Arizona.

Amartel said...

Ari - don't even worry about such things. I doubt anyone here takes them seriously.

rcommal said...

You've written that few times now r,l and I've been puzzled by it but never bothered to press you for what you meant. I think it's time you gave me more context and or detail regarding what exactly you meant by that so that I can respond to what I consider a serious charge.

I think it's time that you look into your own mirror and figure that out for yourself. You have demanded that of other people countless times (and so I have done, did, that mirror-looking), thanks to you.

Turn-about is fair play, right?

Or, is it not?

rcommal said...

Honestly, at the end the day, there is this, that complication having to do with various lives lived

rcommal said...

Also, and more generally speaking, I think that everyone here ought to step up and require of their own selves what they require of others.

So far, that sort of thing is lacking now and also it has been lacking for a long, reprehensible time.