The Wisconsin Congressman has been looking into the problem of upward economic mobility and how effective federal programs are in combatting poverty. Appearing on Bill Bennett's radio program, Mr. Ryan observed that antipoverty assistance can often create "incentives not to work and to stay where you are, that's not what we want in society. . . . There are a lot of people slipping through the cracks in America that are not reaching their potential and we as conservatives should have something to say about that."
He also mused: "We have got this tailspin of culture, in our inner cities in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work, so there's a cultural problem that has to be dealt with." (bold emphasis added)
The liberal online organ Think Progress led with the headline "Paul Ryan Blames Poverty On Lazy 'Inner City' Men," and it was off to the races. California Democrat Barbara Lee denounced his "thinly veiled racial attack," adding, "Let's be clear, when Mr. Ryan says 'inner city,' when he says 'culture,' these are simply code words for what he really means: 'black.'" Others were less charitable about his imagined neo-Confederate sympathies.
Mr. Ryan put out a statement saying he had been "inarticulate" but reiterated his point that "the predictable result" of the poverty trap for society at large has been "multi-generational poverty and little opportunity."
But don't take his word for it. "We know young black men are twice as likely as young white men to be 'disconnected'—not in school, not working. We've got to reconnect them. We've got to give more of these young men access to mentors. We've got to continue to encourage responsible fatherhood. We've got to provide more pathways to apply to college or find a job. We can keep them from falling through the cracks." (bold emphasis added)
Those were the words of President Obama, speaking less than a month ago about his "My Brother's Keeper" project to help "groups who've seen fewer opportunities that have spanned generations," especially boys and young men of color. "It's going to take time. We're dealing with complicated issues that run deep in our history, run deep in our society, and are entrenched in our minds." READ MORE
When it comes to issues of race, gender and inequality, politicians are judged not by their actions, nor the content of their words, but by the letter of party affiliation.
323 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 323 of 323Hence, your admiration for the flamed-out joke of a presidential campaign led by Don Trump. But hey - at least he had style, right?
Huh? I'm in the dark here.
What's in it for you to be such a complete asshole, Ritmo?
Do you just not know how to let go of it?
Those here who are not wrapped up in ranting will be interested in this article about Paul Ryan written by the man who organized meetings with community activists for Paul Ryan.
Or to put it another way...
Is your life so bereft of any kind of compelling drama and action that this shit is the best you can do?
Those here who are not wrapped up in ranting will be interested in this article about Paul Ryan written by the man who organized meetings with community activists for Paul Ryan.
Is it about his sincerity as a person and the improbability of his being a racist given his history and the nature of his character? I really don't have a problem accepting that. I accepted his apology and his explanation.
The real problem, imo, is with those Republicans who are saying it wasn't a sincere apology.
phx,
I can't make anything out of your comment above.
So, it's really important whether you think somebody is a "racist?"
It sure as hell isn't of any importance to me.
The real problem, phi is, blacks killing one another, landing in prison, failing in school and suffering from family deprivation.
The election thing that has you so tied in knots is kinda stupid.
Did Obama misspeak when he said the same thing but in terms that were even more blaming of Blacks in particular. No of course not. He was being courageous despite the fact that everyone knows he won't be called out on it by the same people who attack Ryan. To call these people "disingenuous" is insufficient. Dishonest and hypocritical is more accurate.
But his quote does sound pretty close to saying that he thinks there's a problem with the black culture that's creating all these problems
If you assume that inner city demographics consists of exclusively black,then you might think he has a problem with black culture of people who live in the INNER CITY.
I would assume that there is a black culture of people who live in rural areas that is different from inner city scum: just as there is a difference in white culture inner city people as opposed to suburban or extremely rural etc.
What Ryan said was true. Inner city culture...if other people who want to call racism because THEY assume that everyone in the Inner City (whatever that means) is black....well....isn't that rather racist.
You see Obama and Ryan said similar things about this issue, but although some people will say they want both sides to work together, they immediately chose to attack the one with the R after his name. Dishonest posing and nothing more.
Dishonest posing and nothing more.
If it's all just dishonest posing, then wtf was Ryan's apology and explanation?
You don't see the Right attacking Obama for pointing out the obvious on this. They agree with him, but even agreeing with Obama makes you a racist if you are the wrong person. You disagree with him and you are a racist, and if you agree? Well, then you are just being a sneaky racist.
"wtf was Ryan's apology and explanation? "
Protecting his face from the stone throwers. Republicans are notorious pussies from being called racist on a daily basis. That's the whole reason the left does it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are only pretending to not know that.
If it's all just dishonest posing, then wtf was Ryan's apology and explanation?
The apology is just the pro forma response to the stupid Who's a Racist? game.
Why does the Who's a Racist BS have so much appeal to you? I'm trying to understand.
I get that it's a weapon the press uses against candidates you want to see defeated.
Anything beyond that?
The "dishonest posing" is the left attacking the same thing Obama said just because Ryan said it. Do I really have to spell this out?
Do I really have to spell this out?
No, I have to spell it out apparently. If it's all just dishonest posing, then Ryan's apology is just dishonest posing.
"I think you're complaining because a lot of people don't believe the Republicans and Democrats are "equal" when it comes to talking about race.
I say too bad. If you want to change that perception try accepting at least part of the responsibility for that."
So... it's okay to unfairly demand control of other people's language and to "hear" all sorts of code words and dog whistles because... those people deserve it?
No.
What you're suggesting is to punish someone like Paul Ryan, when he hasn't said or meant anything untoward, at all, for not somehow making reparations for other people's sins... and that is more important than the misery of humans in generational poverty.
And if he *doesn't* make those reparations, and grovel a bit, that it's his fault for not accepting his personal responsibility for the fact that Republicans have been unjustly and opportunistically accused of racism for a very long time.
"So you're saying that his apology for being "inarticulate" was insincere?"
He was being polite and restated his message. I think he was *sincerely* being polite and offering a good-faith clarification to people who were not operating in good faith. I wish he had not agreed that he was inarticulate, not even to be polite... but do YOU think that he really thinks he said something wrong?
What you're suggesting is to punish someone like Paul Ryan, when he hasn't said or meant anything untoward
I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. He apologized, I accepted his apology and I'm ready to move on. It's you guys who are insisting he was treated unfairly. According to you he either wasn't sincere in his apology or he's wrong about race issues.
YOU think that he really thinks he said something wrong?
Without evidence of anything to the contrary, I accept it exactly as he characterized it. He was inarticulate. I think I said it was a dumb thing to say, which it was. Move on.
Where is Obama's apology? Or is he an unapologetic racist?
If he was crossing his fingers behind his back then screw him.
Obama's Black half deserves an apology from his White half.
Where is Obama's apology?
I guess that's between you and Obama. But we both know you will ALWAYS believe Obama is a racist, no matter what.
I suspect that he has put the word "culture" on a "banned" list and will remind himself not to use it until the ever searching sorts discover what he replaced it with and attack him again.
Playing the game other people insist on isn't dishonest. It might be unwise, but it's not dishonest.
And I'm not willing to move on because this will happen again and again and again... because it words so very well.
As for the Republican Party and their historical guilt... two words...
Robert.
Byrd.
Historical guilt is as politically opportunistic as people's ability to hear into the ultrasonic.
@phx,
Again...
Why is this Who's a Racist thing so compelling to you?
Blacks are going to vote Republican if Republicans apologize?
You'll notice that only the Righties here have expressed any real concern for the actual problem Ryan and Obama both described. The lefties only want to continue the attack on just one of the messengers. That says it all right there.
Playing the game other people insist on isn't dishonest. It might be unwise, but it's not dishonest.
Let's be clear about what I believe. Lying about your beliefs for personal gain is dishonest, period.
I choose to believe Paul Ryan made a sincere apology. End of story.
Lying about your beliefs for personal gain is dishonest, period.
So, where does carping about racism, when your real motive is maintaining a block black vote by retaining blacks as welfare clients, fall in that manner of looking at things?
Tacit lies are OK, but pro forma apologies are poison?
"But we both know you will ALWAYS believe Obama is a racist, no matter what. "
Quite the contrary, as I already said. I don't think the very true statements are racist no matter who said them. Obama was right, and so was Ryan, but in direct opposition to your posing about wanting cooperation, you only find fault with the Republican. You are the exact problem you claim to rise above. You have not.
"I think I said it was a dumb thing to say, which it was. Move on."
It was a dumb thing to say only because it gave ammunition to people... like "binders full of women" was a dumb thing to say.
I haven't forgotten that you think it's okay to judge what Republicans say by a different standard than what Democrats say because it's somehow okay to have different standards...
... which is an interesting new twist to explaining how what Ryan said was so obviously wrong and what Obama said was completely different.
And incidentally admits, explicitly, that there ARE different rules for R and D and that the dog whistle and hearing it depends on R and D.
Why is this Who's a Racist thing so compelling to you?
It's compelling to a lot of people. Insult them all you want, but being dismissive of racially insensitive behavior is not a popular way to be. No matter how much that enrages you.
Paul Ryan's problem is that whites who do this run the huge risk of coming across as condescending.
But even if it weren't about race, Paul Ryan has that sort of a credibility problem generally. He said government intervention was always bad, but took the SSI that would have gone to his dad upon his death.
These are just the problems of inconsistency that plague certain people.
Now watch someone here have an aneurysm over that - esp. the first part. Even though no other explanation makes logical sense.
It was a dumb thing to say only because it gave ammunition to people...
I don't agree. I think it sounds like he's saying the problem is with black people's culture. I think that would be a dumb thing to say. I think that's why he proffered his apology because he could wrongly be interpreted that way. I think probably the majority of Republicans think this is the reasonable stand to take.
You hardliners are the problem with the GOP.
"Let's be clear about what I believe. Lying about your beliefs for personal gain is dishonest, period."
Show me where Ryan said, "Using the word "culture" is a racist dog whistle that I used to appeal to racist Republican voters. I'm abjectly sorry for using it."
Something to the tune of "I shouldn't have used that word" or "I should have explained differently" is DISHONESTLY jumped upon as vindication... which is why he shouldn't have done it... even though all it *says* is that he should have used some other words. Saying you were inarticulate is nothing more than saying that you weren't understood.
But since people took the opportunity to pretend he said something wrong, took the opportunity to pretend that the fact he politely accepted a charge of being inarticulate to mean that he said something very wrong, they will certainly decide that if none of that is true, that at least he's a liar about what he really believes.
You hardliners are the problem with the GOP.
I don't give a shit about the GOP.
Again, what is this obsession with elections with you?
I haven't forgotten that you think it's okay to judge what Republicans say by a different standard than what Democrats say because it's somehow okay to have different standards...
You must think we all have some sort of obligation to evaluate as equally credible the same statements out of the mouths of anyone who utters them. I assure you I don't subscribe to that kind of thinking either.
Again, what is this obsession with elections with you?
I'm interested in elections. If you aren't take me off your dance card, okay?
In any case Paul Ryan Obama did not from what I can tell make the same statement.
When Bill Cosby speaks about these matters, he's treated more like Paul Ryan than Barack Obama, so I submit that the problem is less racial than purely political.
Leftist really hate anyone who challenges their dogma whether they be black or white.
OK, so you're interested in elections.
How does playing the "Who's a Racist?" game change a single black vote to Republican?
Answer. It doesn't.
Republicans would be well advised to find a completely different strategy, one that drives the entire debate out of the arena, than to play the "Who's a Racist?" game.
There's nothing in that game, not even the apologies, that changes a single vote.
Plenty of Blacks also think that there is a problem with Black culture in this regard, including Barack Obama according to Barack Obama. So is what Obama said a dumb thing to say too?
So what did Obama say? What was his quote?
But it's not condescending from a man who is half-white, who's black ancestors never experienced racism or poverty in the U.S., who grew up in a privileged White home and attended the best schools in America and is a very wealthy powerful man.
Apparently not. But I don't make the rules.
But I can surmise an explanation for them. If you're interested in that, call me. Or instead rage on about them like someone else here. But you've always been more level-headed than that.
You don't see the racism inherent in the hypocrisy of that double standard?
Again. Possibly so possibly not. If you're curious as to why the difference, I'm sure it's not too hard to come up with explanations. If one is capable of accepting (or at least hypothetically, for the sake of argument tolerating) them.
What does it say if you see racism as acceptable only when it works for you?
I'm beyond seeing how it would work "for me". I just come into these conversations any longer because I find it incredible how much the people outraged by them are missing or intentionally ignoring.
The "rage" thing is just another paranoid projection on your part, Ritmo.
These little glimpses into your psyche are quite revealing in a way that isn't flattering to you.
You are really jealous of my success in life. Your strategy, in that little King Lear scenario, is to attempt to demand that I justify myself.
My success justifies itself. And, you are wallowing in the common and stupid belief of the young that my demise will be to your benefit. It's the standard parricide fantasy of young men.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
Its a game. Don't play.
@Ritmo: I just found that quote of yours (noted by Fen on Althouse) where you admited that you troll for sport.
Were you joking then?
"I think that's why he proffered his apology because he could wrongly be interpreted that way."
I think you're right about why he did it.
Also... read what you wrote and contemplate a standard where what is "wrong" is based on "could be wrongly interpreted"... anything can be wrongly interpreted given motivation to do so. A standard of never allowing yourself to be wrongly interpreted and when you are, then acting like YOU are the one responsible for it... is simply outrageous.
"I think probably the majority of Republicans think this is the reasonable stand to take."
And they keep being reasonable, and they keep getting accused of awful things just because someone could do it and jerk their chains and make them apologize again.
"You hardliners are the problem with the GOP."
No... pointing out the truth, the habitual lying games, the toxic demand that people are responsible for the slander of the opposition, that any *ability* to slander them as Racist is as bad as racism and ALL THEIR FAULT...
None of that is a *problem* with the GOP.
No GOP moderate, certainly not Paul Ryan, will ever be moderate enough not to be a target of this tactic. No GOP moderate is going to get rewarded for accepting her lashes and groveling to the offended. They might think so, and they've been doing it for a long time... but it hasn't worked yet and it never will.
PHX, this post quotes him. The double standard is the main point of this post, yet you never addressed that double standard the whole time, because you have an agenda, and it's to attack Republicans, period.
The notion that people are "outraged" is another projection on your part, Ritmo.
As always, I assume you are speaking for and about yourself.
Were you joking then?
Yes. I just dislike bad arguers. And the perpetually outraged tend to be really bad arguers.
The irony here, in this case - that is, the topic of the post - is that there is perpetual outrage over perpetual outrage. In situations like that the only hope for stability is acknowledging that there might be legitimate roots to both sides' outrage.
Who here is doing that?
Very few. Very few.
"When Bill Cosby speaks about these matters, he's treated more like Paul Ryan than Barack Obama, so I submit that the problem is less racial than purely political."
Good observation.
PHX, this post quotes him.
"We're dealing with complicated issues that run deep in our history, run deep in our society, and are entrenched in our minds."
That was Obama quoted in this post. "Our society, our history, deep in OUR minds." Paul Ryan just makes it sound like a problem with blacks.
And that was why he rightfully apologized, because presumably that's not what he meant. He meant more what Obama said.
"If you're interested in that, call me. "
I'm straight ... this month.
Your strategy, in that little King Lear scenario, is to attempt to demand that I justify myself.
No. Just that you justify the whacked-out things you say. I could give a rat's ass who you are.
Why are you bringing the conversation back to you, again? Can't you help not doing that?
Another post by Ritmo that describes himself quite accurately.
You could solve the problem you describe by shutting up and listening to people who are wiser, older and have more decency than you.
That's the best solution.
I could give a rat's ass who you are.
You are quite obsessed with who I am, Ritmo.
Obsessed with jealousy.
You are quite beset by demons that you imagine inhabit other people, Ritmo.
The notion that people are "outraged" is another projection on your part, Ritmo.
I think it's fair to say that you get outraged over accusations of racism.
You've never offered a persuasive reason for why that is. Instead you just demand that everyone accept your reaction and agree with it.
Life doesn't work that way.
Three rapid-fire posts that illustrate one's self-obsession. Is anyone surprised?
Looks like someone can't stand not being the center of attention.
But let's look to him to solve America's race relations issues. Hahahahahha.aa.aaaa.aha
Hahahahahhaha.
ANd more.
I couldn't read all this shit. It's like everyone is even drunker than I. Not possible.
And/or a perfect illustration of how the ship has taken on so much water that further sailing is an impossibility. The forehands taking on water for balance while the aft hands are bailing as fast as they can. All while the old tub slowly sinks due to lack of communication, as even though immense chatter is happening, it is of little substance.
I'm not outraged by anything you suggest, Ritmo.
Outrage is something I reserve for things that deserve it. I've buried two wives. I watched 2,000 people die in NYC on 9/11. I'm pretty clear on what deserves outrage.
I'm tired of assholes like you playing the Who's a Racist? game.
I'm trying to shame assholes like you out of behaving this way. There's some part of you that isn't entirely, balefully, incredibly stupid, although you work hard at concealing it. You do know how to use language.
I not holding out much hope that you will cease the worthless asshole routine, but I give it a try once in a while.
I feel your pain, XRay.
Unfortunately, the chatter overwhelming any attempts at communication are coming mostly from one guy who's most insecure about said communication occurring.
Also... read what you wrote and contemplate a standard where what is "wrong" is based on "could be wrongly interpreted"... anything can be wrongly interpreted given motivation to do so. A standard of never allowing yourself to be wrongly interpreted and when you are, then acting like YOU are the one responsible for it... is simply outrageous.
Paul Ryan's statement, IMO, could be reasonably interpreted to be laying the blame for inner city problems on the culture of black people.
You don't think so, okay. We disagree. Pay the fine and move on.
PHX, The line above that part is Obama too. Go read his speech at the link, the whole thing is about what's wrong in the Black community. Ryan never said Blacks. Obama only talked about Blacks. But do you really care more about elections than dishonesty in our discourse and continuing problems for Blacks?
@XRay
If you aren't drunk, reading Ritmo's rants will certainly lead one to crack the bottle.
You are interesting in a very negative way, Ritmo.
Really, why does this asshole act seem so... I can't even find a word for it... so clever to you?
I play with a lot of young people who are hungry for the knowledge of old, white men.
You are, too. Just too fucking stupid to admit it and ask.
Thomas:
If you are sincere and really feel you do have something worth listening to then you might try to avoid telling people that you're better than them and deserve to be obeyed. No one believes that "shaming" people for its own sake is persuasive discourse. No one.
I play with a lot of young people who are hungry for the knowledge of old, white men.
Um, see. This is just too insane a statement to take seriously. It begs to question the sanity of the person stating it.
But do you really care more about elections than dishonesty in our discourse and continuing problems for Blacks?
Until you learn to listen to each other you won't fix these problems.
And didn't I get enough of your dishonesty today?
"There's some part of you that isn't entirely, balefully, incredibly stupid..."
You will need to show your work on this conclusion. I'm not seeing this.
Just kidding Ritmo... kinda.
@Ritmo
Young men ask old white guys nicely for their wisdom.
Your stupid lectures are part of your problem.
I haven't suggested that I'm better than anybody or that I should be obeyed.
We are all destined for the grave, whether or not we are better. Obedience is owed only to God.
We are all destined for the grave, whether or not we are better.
That is wise indeed.
"Until you learn to listen to each other you won't fix these problems."
Who is not listening - the people agreeing with the President or the ones calling just the Republican messenger a racist? You know damned well that's just a way to shut one side up, even when they agree with the President.
You clearly just intend to do your normal shuck and jive avoidance dance. As it always is.
Young men ask old white guys nicely for their wisdom.
Do you honestly not think this is a condescending thing to say?
Do you honestly think that it doesn't ask for something other than a worthwhile conversation, and instead asks for some type of weird relationship dynamic that has nothing to do with conversation?
Don't you feel any reason to ask yourself why you feel so needful of whatever else that "something" is?
This is the internet. No one cares about your age. No one.
"No one believes that "shaming" people for its own sake is persuasive discourse. No one. "
Tell that to the ones attacking Ryan.
"We are all destined for the grave, whether or not we are better."
That is wise indeed.
I'm imagining Thomas in a grave right now, arguing with the younger corpse about how that corpse has not shown him enough deference. How that corpse has not been respectful enough of his older corpse's wisdom. ;-)
ST is definitely right on with at least one thing:
Everybody wants us old white guys. We got it going on. Secure, capable, wise, free, and incredibly hot in bed.
You clearly just intend to do your normal shuck and jive avoidance dance. As it always is.
I don't think that's how it is. I think I accepted Paul Ryan's apology immediately and was fine as seeing him as wanting to contribute positively to the discourse.
It's you righties who think he Ryan was lying for his apology who are doing the shuck and jive avoidance dance. Did I miss your explanation for that bagho20?
Tell that to the ones attacking Ryan.
I doubt they see it as persuasive discourse, either. But then, they're not interested in discourse.
That doesn't mean it's ineffective. But as to whether it's right is debatable. In that sense, they could be wrong, too.
Stepping outside of the shaming mode is the only thing that works. And in this sense no one can ask of others what they're not prepared to do themselves.
Wouldn't that make Paul Ryan a liar if his apology was not sincere?
" Did I miss your explanation for that bagho20?".
I guess so, because I explained it pretty clearly above, as did a number of other people. The question has been asked and answered half a dozen times here. You however, never answered why it's racist or dumb, or in need of an apology for Ryan to point out the same reality as Obama did.
Everybody wants us old white guys. We got it going on. Secure, capable, wise, free, and incredibly hot in bed.
Obviously.
Nothing else explains the relentless efforts to drag us down.
It's all jealousy.
As I said.
The fact that you keep asking the same question after being answered repeatedly is exactly what I mean about dishonesty and shuck and jive. You don't care about the answers, the discourse, learning. You just want to attack the Republican. Turn up that funk and keep dancing.
You however, never answered why it's racist or dumb, or in need of an apology for Ryan to point out the same reality as Obama did.
I answered that at 10:17 and 10:26.
So if Paul Ryan doesn't believe in the apology he made, wouldn't that make him a liar?
I'm sorry when did you address that?
@bagoh
When the ranting about old white guys gets started, I just think about my friends.
Without exception, they are successful, happy, prosperous, confident... and above all else, good people.
Most have very successful marriages and families.
My 72 year old grandpa lead guitar player is still in incredible demand as a supervisor of heavy machine repairs.
The old white guys that I know are all exceptionally happy, successful people.
Actually, I don't think you have a way to address that conundrum. Or "dissonance" as you Republicans sometimes like to call it.
So, what's the rationale here, phx?
If no white guy ever said anything "racist" that hurt blacks' feelings, that would fix blacks' problems?
Somehow, I doubt that.
Somehow, I doubt that.
Yeah, I don't think that either.
300+ My work here is done.
You'll do better next time, I'm sure.
Nighty-night, you old, sexy, white men.
(Bag's not as old as ST but I'm assuming he's still old and white enough to be sexy).
Unfortunately, young men who can't do math, can't get to work/ school on time every day, can't write a letter, etc are the first fired and the last hired even in a good economy. Unfortunately, the economy is being slowly disassembled by the dumbass Dem regime and that has made things even worse for the aforementioned skills-challenged young men of all races.
Unfortunately, young men who can't do math, can't get to work/ school on time every day, can't write a letter, etc are the first fired and the last hired even in a good economy. Unfortunately, the economy is being slowly disassembled by the dumbass Dem regime and that has made things even worse for the aforementioned skills-challenged young men of all races.
Now that's a good start to an honest argument.
If no white guy ever said anything "racist" that hurt blacks' feelings, that would fix blacks' problems?
Somehow, I doubt that.
Credit where credit's due. ST is totally right when he says this.
"So if Paul Ryan doesn't believe in the apology he made, wouldn't that make him a liar?
I'm sorry when did you address that? "
At 9:33. It's not a lie. It's apologizing if some people misunderstood his language. A lie is something like:
"You can keep you your insurance."
"You can keep your doctor."
"I will publish every law on the internet for 72 hours before I sign it."
"It was a Youtube video."
"I will accept public financing and it's limitation for my campaign."
We will adopt a rescue dog when we move into the White House."
and on, and on, and on....
A lie is something that gets YOUR vote.
When there's this many comments, nobody reads the thread........Buckley said that if crime was a code word for race, could someone please tell him the code word for crime and he would use that.
Mostly a waste of time, really, this thread.
But, has anyone done an algorithm, or even a simple plain field database of grievances, of everyone's point of view. I mean written them down in a coherent manner, point by point.
I haven't. I'm not that smart.
But I do think it would be useful to see such.
“After reading the transcript of yesterday morning’s interview, it is clear that I was inarticulate about the point I was trying to make. I was not implicating the culture of one community—but of society as a whole. We have allowed our society to isolate or quarantine the poor rather than integrate people into our communities. The predictable result has been multi-generational poverty and little opportunity. I also believe the government’s response has inadvertently created a poverty trap that builds barriers to work. A stable, good-paying job is the best bridge out of poverty.
I don't have a problem with that. What's your beef, Republicans?
You're damn right I missed your 9:33 or I would have mocked you to no end for your hypocrisy.
"The old white guys that I know are all exceptionally happy, successful people."
I'm happier and more successful than I ever dreamed possible, and it gets better every year. I attribute that to not having excuses for anything less.
" What a noble guy you must think he is. No wonder you voted that ticket. "
And yet you think the guy who told you all those lies and a hundred others was the better man. Did he tell you anything that was true? Does that even matter to you?
Yes, I thought Obama was the better man for President than Romney.
It's ironic really. My Paul Ryan is a better man than your Paul Ryan.
"I don't have a problem with that. What's your beef, Republicans?"
My "beef" is that it was easily understandable to any *honest* person who read the transcript or listened to the interview that he was speaking of the culture as a whole. My "beef" is that the liars don't care what they break when they play their little outrage games.
phx... you said that the statement could be taken either way.
The *only* way it could be taken as some sort of slur against black people or black culture is if a person makes not even a minimal attempt to be honest toward another human being but instead chooses to assume, because of their own prejudices or worse, their own political interests, the worst possible interpretation.
People don't want to be responsible for that, and I happen to think it makes them unvirtuous scum-buckets and a rotting puss pile right in the center of our national political dialog.
Paying the fine and moving on is for guilty people.
One big difference between what Obama said and what Ryan said was that Obama's comment was just one part of much fuller remarks*, while Ryan tossed off his comment in a radio chat with a fellow white conservative and made the huge mistake of including a reference to Charles Murray. I haven't read Murray, but I've read enough about his work to know that it is widely perceived to at least imply that black people are intellectually inferior.
I also don't think Ryan was honest about his remark being "inarticulate." I think he meant exactly what he said, that inner city culture -- meaning black culture because that's how most people understand the term -- is to blame for what's gone wrong. He would have been much better served by fessing up to that and then he should have gone on to say a lot more about how that's really far too simplistic a view, that in fact our history is very complicated, with enough blame to spread around to all races/cultures.
Perhaps Ryan isn't the guy to do this, but someone on the Republican side should make an effort to show they're aware of the complexities involved.
The full text of Obama's remarks is here. They were made at the launch of My Brother's Keeper, an "initiative to help young men of color".
Once again, only the left are allowed to help "young men of color". How is that working out?
Grievance theater is such a fucking bore.
As opposed to old white men's problems.
Chris Rock has a piece, Black People vs. Niggaz. I am always reminded of this when Shouting gets involved in a thread - White People vs. Dumbass Crackas.
I can tell you a story about culture.
I had to go to bank to take out a large sum of money. I had to get cash as I had to deposit in another bank as cash so the person whose account I deposited in could get the use of it immediately. I had to jump in a cab from my bank and go down to Montague Street to deposit it.
Anyway while I was doing my transaction three yutes came into the bank. They were loud and boisterous and disrespectful to the families that were there. Dropping the f-bomb here and mfing there. They wore the usual outfit of designer label knockoffs worn hanging off their ass with no belt. One of them had an account and he took a twenty out of the ATM. Then he go on line to get change while his two buddies sold wolf tickets on the sideline.
Now the teller was smart enough to conceal my transaction behind the window as he covered up the money and slid it into an envelope where these mooks couldn't see it. I nodded my thanks to him. He was perceptive to say the least.
As I walked out of the bank I had to be aware. I could have looked like a victim. I mean I might be a big guy but I am walking with a cane right now and look a lot frailer. So these three might have seen me as a payday. I went out and got a cab quickly which didn't give these guys a chance to follow me to a less populated area.
So the sense of danger that was radiated by these yutes just racism? Was it cultural? Would I felt the same if a couple of banjo picking hillbillies from Justified where there in the bank?
I don't know.
I do know that no one will get the respect they seem to demand unless they change. Significantly. That's just a fact.
You can blame the Republicans and old white men all you want. Or you can pick up your pants, get a fucking job and stop acting like a knucklehead.
I will not make excuses or apologize for reality. Unlike people who live in an academic bubble I deal with it every day. To make excuses and coddle miscreants is doing them a disservice of the highest order.
I completely understand your story Trooper. I believe I would have had all the immediate feelings that you and the teller did. Similar thing happened to me when I went into a pizza place recently and some bad guys were making a fright fest of the place with their nonsense.
I think the general conclusions we draw from these examples might need some fine tuning though.
Fine tuning is fine in a theoretical context phx. But in real life things are different.
I deal with more black people in one day in Brooklyn than live in the state of Wisconsin. The vast majority of them are good hard working people who are just trying to make a better life for their families. But they are betrayed by the worst actors in their community.
I don't get all aggrieved when Italian Americans get portrayed as Meatheads in stuff like "Jersey Shore" or when some Mafia guy gets pinched. I see them as morons or criminals. Not as the typical Italian and I don't cry racism at the drop of meatball.
The black community needs to do the same thing. They need to grow up and stop the bullshit. Nobody wants to hear it anymore except for the poverty pimps and patent medicine salesmen who make a living off of that shell game. You know. Democrats.
Things will never get better unless we face up to some hard truths and unpleasant realities.
Actually I don't have to face up to it. The people who keep getting dragged down by it need to face up to it and learn from it. Or not. But don't expect pussyfooting and tiptoeing around the problems. That is what Ryan did with his apology. He played the media game. That is why I would not support him for President despite the fact that my good friend Michael Haz vouches for him.
Again he began to teach beside the sea. And a very large crowd gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat in it on the sea; and the whole crowd was beside the sea on the land. 2 And he taught them many things in parables, and in his teaching he said to them: 3 "Listen! A sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it. 5 Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it had not much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil; 6 and when the sun rose it was scorched, and since it had no root it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among thorns and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. 8 And other seeds fell into good soil and brought forth grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold." 9 And he said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased,
And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
This passage which mentions Bethany is one of the many passages that mention one of the "Real Housewives."
I've always believed with Christianity came great responsibilities.
You are thinking of Spiderman.
I deal with more black people in one day in Brooklyn than live in the state of Wisconsin. The vast majority of them are good hard working people who are just trying to make a better life for their families. But they are betrayed by the worst actors in their community.
And that's just Brooklyn. Blacks in NYC have refreshingly much smaller chips on their shoulders than elsewhere. I think it gets better the further north you go. In Atlanta they really think it's slave labor to get to walk at a normal pace through the parking lot you're trying to navigate. They might as well ask for a lemonade while you're/they're at it.
I think the best way to sum it up is how much of a chip on the shoulder people want to keep and for how long. I acknowledge history. I also think the lack of interest among American blacks in self-improvement of any sort is abysmal. It usually depends on my day, my mood and my experience. I also think that if it ever gets to you, you first realize the greatest harm done is to themselves, which is typically their own problem.
And then, you get to meet one or two who's just trying, struggling to seem as semi-competent as civilized commerce requires without going too far. Those types I feel a bit sorry for, but when a more engaged co-worker takes over what they f up you kind of find a funny way of letting them know that giving a shit really would be a nice thing, and not racial at all.
There's a variety of methods for dealing with self-imposed horrible standards. Usually you don't need to focus on the racial angle in your response, and can still be as effective as anyone can expect with it. But sometimes you just want to tell them that they're really just acting like slaves. The attitude itself is a slavish attitude and pounding that home every now and then gets them to question whose benefit their shitty attitude accrues to. Ain't no slave-master to appease, avoid or disengage from any more, so perpetuating an attitude that almost begs to assume that there is one is something they might stand to have pointed out every once in a while.
And that's where the cons have a point. There's always going to be discrimination, imperfection, the burdens of history, etc. But that's on the perpetrators of those things. Retaining a slave's mindset is the voluntary burden of the other side's equation. That's up to them. Point it out every once in a while if you want to let them understand how much they do to demean themselves.
Very cogently put Ritmo.
You are thinking of Spiderman.
They're not the same?
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