"From my email and appreciated. Now one might not agree with every word. One might find fault with certain statistics. One might, rightly in my opinion, point out that not mentioning God explicitly makes the idea of an "arc of justice" absurd. (In his defense, he is addressing a TED audience, probably not a crowd particularly receptive to God talk though I'd have appreciated it if he'd tried.) However, listening past any faults or disagreements, there's much that is important there."
Freeman Hunt
44 comments:
Oh, God help me! You really want Crack over here?
This subject has been beaten to death 24/7, 365 days a year throughout my life and I'm 64!
Everybody needs to shut up about this bullshit. Nobody has anything new to say. The subject produces clicks and gets people pissed off.
Other than that, it's a waste of time.
It won't play for me.
re: it won't play, I had to go to youtube
It is an interesting speech and there are some good points, but the suggestion that the death penalty conviction rate is 1:10 error rate is simply not true.
I agree the high rates of conviction over the war on drugs (where drugs alone are the sole reason for conviction) is a mistake. High rates of conviction over violent crime is not a mistake (but warranted).
As for felons getting their voting rights back, I am for them petitioning for them say 10 years after their sentence is served.
I guess we don't need to, but the ability to address it honestly and calmly, without anxiety, means that we're mature enough to speak about things that are an important part of at least our history, if not our current reality.
I agree that depriving people of voting rights in perpetuity on the basis of criminality is a bad idea, and indicates a government that distrusts its own people to the point of being tempted to imprison enough of them as a pretext for electorally significant disenfranchisement. It's no less dishonest than people who would try to (allegedly) swing elections by giving votes to non-citizens.
Do you really believe the black community is filled with hopelessness? Here's a partial list of cities that are under black political control:
Newark
Baltimore
Philadelphia
Detroit
Atlanta
New Orleans
St. Louis
Indianapolis
Cleveland
Washington
Chicago
What does this mean? It means that the black aristocracy, what used to be called the talented tenth, is living the life of Riley on YOUR tax dollars. They're the ones who OWN those cities and a whole lot of other cities. They WON. And who do you think "works" in the loosest sense of that term in those byzantine dens of sloth and corruption? Blacks. The slightly less than talented next three or four tenths. The under-class? The hopeless community? They KNOW that just for having been born they will never go hungry, never lack for a roof over their heads, never be without an Obama phone, a wall size color TV and many pairs of three hundred dollar sneakers. All courtesy YOU.
Hopeless. Ha.
For someone who claims to be as unconcerned with race as you, Thomas, you seem awfully focused on what you think black men are or are not supposedly doing right. Just sayn'
Ok, now for a real car wash. This time. For real. Hasta.
Or, to state it in the opposite.
Restoring family and traditional religious values is the answer for the black community.
Self-reliance, not the government tit.
Fat chance of that happening.
Read Sultan Knish's bit today.
@Ritmo
I was house organist in a black Baptist church in Jersey for several years.
I'm only relating the concerns of the elders of that church. They were desperately trying to get their young men to attend church, and they knew that was the only way to keep them out of trouble.
Adult men and women and female children were just about the only regular attendees at church.
And, the dysfunction that reliance on government handouts creates is spreading like a venereal disease to the white community.
R&B, dishonest? It is not dishonest. It is right there. But I find both parties positions on improving their own chances at the ballot box gamesmanship. I would have no problem with a political solution that required voters to prove their identity with photo id (as if that was something crazy), with not giving those who come illegally the voter franchise until they formally and appropriately become citizens, and with giving felons the chance to regain their voting rights after they prove they paid their price for their transgressions.
As for talking about injustice, we do that all the time. But what goes hand in hand with that is personal responsibility.
I agree...we don't NEED to talk about race. But if we do, we NEED to have civil and logical discussions. Throwing around names, getting all emotional, calling people racist who don't disagree with your premises is not conducive to talking.
Didn't watch the whole thing. Too long.
As to felons not being able to vote: That depends on the State you live in. In Calif a felon who has served his/her sentence is not precluded from voting. There are also many levels of felony. White collar academic types of crime to horrific murdering. If you have served your time, and are a functioning member of society, no longer a criminal, then you should not be denied the right to vote.
Black men are committing a hell of a lot of crime. The solution is for them to cease. And, the way to do that is to cease creating social policy that results in dismantling family and religious tradition.
That there are more, proportionally, black men incarcerated is not proof of any kind of targeting or discrimination. If your group, ethnicity, race, whatever, is committing more crimes, then you WILL have more people incarcerated. It is math and probability.
If you don't want to go to jail....don't commit illegal acts.
In this weeks episode of "Justified" Raylan Givens has to deal with this idiot that had really screwed up his life. He had run out on his family and was being chased by this guy who he stole money from. He lost his son to the guy and Raylan was going with him to exchange the money for the kid.
At one point Raylan turns to him and said. "You are a loser. For once in your life lose with a little dignity."
At the 17:35 mark he says: "I had a client who was 14 years old, a young, poor black kid. And I started working on this motion, and the head of the motion was: 'Motion to try my poor, 14-year-old black male client like a privileged, white 75-year-old corporate executive'."
Too bad he missed the chance to rise a bit above race and put O. J. Simpson in there with that 75-year-old rich white person. Especially since he makes a big point in the talk about how wealth distorts our justice system.
Tell me about the religion of your homeworld, Usel.
What? No… what? I'm not talking about religion. Isn't about religion. I'm afiest. Stop saying that. It's nonsense. There is no religion here.
Tell me more of your catechism. I'm very interested in all that.
Stop saying that! This is regular humanity, not religion!
I'm interested in comparative religions. Please do go on.
I did that hug thing to my dog. She was nine months old and regarded me kidnapper imprisoner. Did I mention this? Stop me if you heard this. With a friend visiting, I called, here little doggy and grabbed her and smashed her to bits while whispering sweet doggy nothings into her ear, demonstrating my overwhelming strength and tenderness simultaneously, slowly releasing , at the point she realized escape is possible she flew out of my arms in a blur, spun in mid air, and landed in "challenge the menacing devil" position. My friend cracked up laughing. I said, "She'll be flying into my arms in a week."
With her it took less that that, just a few days.
I picked a spot in the house for our spot. Our power spot. A place at the edge where house turns to porch, remodeled to interior space, where I go to pour on affection and talk to her directly. I got the idea from television. A program said human children do not get five minutes personal direction from their parent each day. Less than that as measured, and I thought, Jeeze, I can do better than that with my dog. So I did. Ten minutes a day direct personal attention a day was the new resolution. All I have to do is go to the spot and the dog comes flying from wherever she is, she monitors me continuously, so if I sit there BLAM she flies like a cannonball into my chest, actually tucks in for the furball and bone impact.
That my religion. It amount to grace extended all around even to dogs and to fish. It's Sunday innit. I could tell by the sermon, review and rote repetition in nature. My favorite part is where the guy thought himself special but was not. But is, the janitor confirms. So does the appreciative audience.
Standing ovation. ROAR from those hearing such things the first time. As if.
While approaching justice through legal channels, others approach justice by living it, by addressing obvious challenges directly. This sermon/dissertation from a legal perspective mentioned Mama, mentioned Grandma, must I listen again for Papa and Grandpa. Am I to assume they're in jail by the facts as presented? They never had a chance because they were arrested as children and marked early and consumed by three strikes? It was all against them, and only against them singularly? They suffer punishment singularly along racial lines, and were it not for that racially slanted punishment justice would prevail?
YouTube [Richard Pryor jail] Worst thing about jail.
THAT'S OBSCENE!!!1!11!11!11!!11
And not it all. Sorry. Wrong video.
Okay, forget that.
All of that is boring and you guys are fun. This is what you will like. Another video offered next to it on YouTube. Short, quite good. Wilder says in improve don't try to outdo, don't try to be clever, rather, say the thing natural in that situation. Wilder appears quite old.
And that's what comes out funny as heck when viewed from the outside, the ease of subverting reality, physics, natural law, with the same ease of simply being personable, going along.
You notice two men talking, one explaining something, but not that great a communicator, not delivering a spiel, they repeat each other, often line for line. It's actually comical. It works for them. It's slow, and it goes, agree, agree, agree, agree, agree, because the same sentence is repeated call/response style. A skit can be done of that.
We don't need a national dialogue about race.
We need a national monologue.
Somebody should stand up and simply say:
"Shut the fuck up and go get a job and obey the law. Period."
But nobody has the balls to say that these days.
You would get crucified.
And be a father for your kids.
Very powerful. Thank you Freeman, thank Lem.
BTW the quote "The moral arc of the universe is long but it bends towards justice" comes from Martin Luther King, a very Godly man.
What needs to be discussed is current reality.
What is our current reality and how do we live in it?
In 1853, the controversial abolitionist Theodore Parker preached these words: "I do not pretend to understand the moral universe; the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways; I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. And from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice."
A century later a young black preacher famously took up this refrain in his sermons and speeches; perhaps most famously on the steps of the State Capitol in Montgomery, Alabama in 1965 when he answered the question how long African Americans must wait for full equality and justice in America, "How long?" Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. asked, "Not long, because the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."
That there are more, proportionally, black men incarcerated is not proof of any kind of targeting or discrimination. If your group, ethnicity, race, whatever, is committing more crimes, then you WILL have more people incarcerated. It is math and probability.
Come on. Do you know what proportion of those are non-violent drug "offenses" from using crystal versus more expensive (white man) powder cocaine? Not all "crime" is crime but seeing it that way helps us legislate (and incarcerate) along arbitrary racial lines.
I think your first mistake is assuming that incarceration disparities represent serious crime disparities, when in reality the non-violent vice crime laws we use to create these disparities were probably created for the most paternalistic, big-brother reasons. The government's locking up non-violent drug users because it "cares" about them and the black community affected by one particular drug.* But wait, now there's one parent less to care for an actual family and kid. What a crock.
*But not the meth that's destroying rural white communities.
I stand corrected. The quote comes from the abolitionist Theodore Parker.
I agree "The opposite of poverty is justice."
I stand corrected. The quote comes from the abolitionist Theodore Parker.
The quote as posted, phx, comes from Martin Luther King. The person who provided the thoughts King used to form the famous quote was Theodore Parker.
There are those within the human race who stand out as points of light, reflecting a commitment to justice and mercy that flows from within, defines their lives and offers opportunity to others. It's not a black or white thing, any more than those are one man's words or another's.
Truth never yet fell dead in the streets; it has such affinity with the soul of man, the seed however broadcast will catch somewhere and produce its hundredfold. Theodore Parker
Wisconsin leads the way.
Dane County takes the point. (page 11)
Words are never really as important as actions. I mentioned that were from MLK because FH seemed to believe they sounded not so powerful in a secular context.
I've never heard of Theordore Parker before this. That's another beautiful quote.
We don't need to talk about race.
We need to talk about how the Lefties have to lie to get what they want.
I know where the words are from. That's why I noted that I think they lack power in a purely secular context.
I see.
We do way too much looking backwards so we fail to fix our future.
MLK invoked God all the time.
A Godly man. He was more everything than I am.
"I would agree with St. Augustine that 'an unjust law is no law at all.' Now, what is the difference between the two? How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God."
" Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to be co workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right. Now is the time to make real the promise of democracy and transform our pending national elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood. Now is the time to lift our national policy from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of human dignity."
"So I have not said to my people: "Get rid of your discontent." Rather, I have tried to say that this normal and healthy discontent can be channeled into the creative outlet of nonviolent direct action. And now this approach is being termed extremist. But though I was initially disappointed at being categorized as an extremist, as I continued to think about the matter I gradually gained a measure of satisfaction from the label. Was not Jesus an extremist for love: "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Was not Amos an extremist for justice: "Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever flowing stream." Was not Paul an extremist for the Christian gospel: "I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus." Was not Martin Luther an extremist: "Here I stand; I cannot do otherwise, so help me God." And John Bunyan: "I will stay in jail to the end of my days before I make a butchery of my conscience." And Abraham Lincoln: "This nation cannot survive half slave and half free." And Thomas Jefferson: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal . . ." So the question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of extremists we will be. Will we be extremists for hate or for love? Will we be extremists for the preservation of injustice or for the extension of justice? In that dramatic scene on Calvary's hill three men were crucified. We must never forget that all three were crucified for the same crime--the crime of extremism. Two were extremists for immorality, and thus fell below their environment. The other, Jesus Christ, was an extremist for love, truth and goodness, and thereby rose above his environment. Perhaps the South, the nation and the world are in dire need of creative extremists."
"We will win our freedom because the sacred heritage of our nation and the eternal will of God are embodied in our echoing demands."
-- all from MLK's "Letter from Birmingham Jail"
Why is apparently an issue at all to dismiss, discredit by context, or otherwise diminish the origin of a metaphor made famous by another?
This I do not understand. I think it's valuable to trace such things. I try to do this all the time -- in science history and in music history.
CL, I'm dim.
Thus didn't understand your first sentence here.
Would you please give me a little help.
You're not dim, XRay. So I'll leave you to figure it out.
Someone said a metaphor lacked power.
I was going to say, cheap way out. Then I realized it makes no difference. As metaphor is not life, though it may have power.
Why is apparently an issue at all to dismiss, discredit by context, or otherwise diminish the origin of a metaphor made famous by another?
I don't follow either. Who did that? Me?
I'm also not following you, Chick. Who did what?
With or without specific mention of "God", truth and grace have the power to enlighten, create, motivate and heal.
The broadcast seeds that were scattered and produced 100 fold were Parker's words made real in life and action. Integrity is result of words and actions functioning in concert together.
Like ChipAhoy's picture of the Egyptian writing pen, when heart and mind connect to give voice to something larger than one man's words or life, resonation is the result, with additional seeds being broadcast and discussed even to this very day.
The broadcast seeds that were scattered and produced 100 fold were Parker's words made real in life and action. Integrity is result of words and actions functioning in concert together.
We can also know that MLK was wise enough to amplify and resonate something which the collective "we" had forgotten.
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