I'm not saying "Just say no." is easy, but it is what you need to do. The rest is just elaborate ways of getting there, and often fooling people into believing there is some other way around it, but there is not. You will be faced with the decision, and you will either say "no" or you won't. The sooner an addict gets to the place where they understand that, and accept the responsibility, the better.
Just say no begins with just not buying whatever you are addicted to...from cigarettes to heroin. Sounds simple. It isn't. But it is simple minded to think there is any other way to quit anything.
The biggest, tallest, most fantastic high that has ever been, Lemmy was not on it.
Just saying...
But, that's not the high the interview is referring to. Didn't mean to play with the names there ;) The interview refers to a more earthly bond high. A solo high.
Not the "surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God" high.
I don't mean to fuss over this, but now that I'm on it. and we have more relaxed rules of engagement...
I looked up why the LEM (Lunar Excursion Module) was changed to LM (Lunar Module)
Wikipedia says ...
Over the course of its development, the name was officially changed to Lunar Module (LM), eliminating the word "excursion". According to George Low, Manager of the Apollo Spacecraft Program Office, this was because NASA was afraid that the word "excursion" might lend a frivolous note to Apollo.[5] After the name change from "LEM" to "LM", the pronunciation of the abbreviation did not change, as the habit became ingrained among engineers, the astronauts, and the media to universally pronounce "LM" as "lem" which is easier than saying the letters individually.
What does that have to do with hard drugs?
I suppose I would have to engage in some experimentation to make sure I'm speaking like I know what I'm talking about. And not in speculative scholarly? form.
Other than the play... it is a good topic for discussion.
It has all the elements of how to live beyond the means necessary for survival.
Its a sign of some progress, if you will.
While some people have to, or choose to, worry about the more mundane preoccupations of job, not the one from the bible, job, the one that I hinted at this morning, and raising children, some people have chosen not to worry themselves with those things.
That kind of progress.
I know this because there was some discussion about this just recently toping the charts.
I'm not saying "Just say no." is easy, but it is what you need to do. The rest is just elaborate ways of getting there...
"Just say no" is certainly the bottom line, but some of the other stuff makes it much easier to get there. Number one being, don't hang out with people who like to do drugs.
basta! writes: And if one wants to talk about massive tolls, one really should include that legal drug, booze.
OK, talk about it. We have a long history of curtailing alcohol in this country. New laws are enacted to restrict it -- not to enable it -- unless you favor Prohibition. But here we're talking about easing restrictions on something akin to alcohol. Your entire argument is -- look, we already have something deleterious -- alcohol; why can't we add one more thing? Just one more thing?
And for the record, drug use can feel like shit, and I mean during. I got busted up badly in a car accident when I was 20. I spent the first day after surgery getting injections of morphine. I had VERY bad trips. Switched to Demerol injections on day two. Still didn't like it, but better than morphine. Switched to Demerol pills(?) on day three. By day four, I'd only take them to try and sleep through the night. But mostly the first few days it was a toss-up on whether it was better feeling the pain of a shattered leg and broken back and other related injuries or taking the pain meds and all the crappy feelings that came with that.
By week two I was down to taking other stuff for the pain, and only when it was bad and I needed to sleep. Ugh, that felt terrible.
It made me question why anyone would do that to make themselves feel better. And then, one night about three months later, I woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat and all I wanted was morphine.
THAT scared the shit out of me, and I was happy I didn't have any opiates with me at the time. I've never had that sensation since then, but damn it was scary powerful.
El Pollo, no, that's not an argument I was making, but I guess I wasn't clear. I was disagreeing with Methadras' assertion that illegal drug use is always a downward spiral that takes a massive toll --- and suggesting that he include booze if he was going to talk about drugs that can sometimes have devastating effects.
Ice, when I was a kid I had some shit happen and needed morphine (among other things) and I loved it. Fucking loved it. Warmest sweetest softest wave ever.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it.
But even 25 years later or more--I still remember it and still sort of pine for it.
I've had a few vicodins and so forth since then for various maladies. Same thing, same sensation. Opiates are my friends. My evil, evil friends.
Your entire argument is -- look, we already have something deleterious -- alcohol; why can't we add one more thing? Just one more thing?
Deleterious drinking... there is a nipple joke in there somewhere. But because I haven't touched the stuff in so long I'm having trouble spelling it out.
Can we call this the Nancy Reagan thread. This sounds like a bunch of WW2 guys sitting in the Legion Hall, shitfaced, talking about how bad drugs are. Then they go out and kill someone in their car, or beat up their wife and/or kids if they make it home.
Damn, people have been altering their minds since way before Christ. How about minimizing the damage instead of looking for a perfect world? Because believe me, there isn't a motherfucking perfect world to be had. There is NOTHING inherently wrong in altering your consciousness.
How about minimizing the damage instead of looking for a perfect world?
Are you saying there is some other strategy that results in less damage than just saying no?
You could certainly argue that there are benefits to drug use, and that we should minimize the cost/benefit ratio. But that is a different strategy than minimizing the damage.
"Can we call this the Nancy Reagan thread. This sounds like a bunch of WW2 guys sitting in the Legion Hall, shitfaced, talking about how bad drugs are."
And your comment makes you sound like some dreary 60 year old Boomer.
Drugs are bad period. Want to get high, become an alcoholic.
The best feeling I ever got from a drug was before a surgery for an inguinal hernia. This happened a little over a year after the car accident in question.
It was an out patient procedure. While lying in the waiting area they put an IV in me. After a few minutes of feeling nothing, I asked of they had given me anything.
"Oh no, that's just fluid. You'll know when we give you stuff."
A few minutes later they injected SOMETHING into the IV. I don't know what it was, and I don't want to know. It made me feel slightly drowsy at first, and then it hit.
WHOOOOSH! All the tension in my muscles just went away. And then I turned to water and flowed off the table and then I was out. When I woke up I discovered that I no longer had the hernia, but couldn't even wiggle my fingers without my balls hurting. That was no fun.
Nor was it fun when I got home and my mother gave me a copy of Bob Eucker's "Catcher in the Wry". A horrible buck for someone recovering from an inguinal hernia operation. Riotously funny, and every laugh was pure agony.
I'll never think of lawn chairs the same way again.
Creeley23 said: If Lemmy's bottom line is "Just say no,' say so. It's not a long or complicated or new thought at all.
It's not his point. The line I did quote contrasts nicely with his overall message. That's why I put both the quite and the video up. I transcribed the quote from the video which already took some work to get right and didn't have time to transcribe the whole thing.
I have rules about things. Call them "Haz's Rules" for the purposes of this conversation.
One of them is a one-drink limit if I am somewhere that requires I drive home. And that drops to a zero-drink limit if my mode of transport is a motorcycle.
The second rule is to avoid prescription pain relief meds at all costs, but keep a small supply stashed for the Saturday night when I break a tooth and my buddy the dentist is three states away.
I had cancer surgeries three times, and heart surgery once. After the second surgery, when I had blissfully befriended morphine and several of its cousins, I had a hellish two weeks of withdrawal. After that, I developed a high pain tolerance and used just enough to take the hard edge off, and for as short a while as I could tolerate.
Life it too short to add addiction to the list of shit to deal with.
El Pollo, no, that's not an argument I was making, but I guess I wasn't clear. I was disagreeing with Methadras' assertion that illegal drug use is always a downward spiral that takes a massive toll --- and suggesting that he include booze if he was going to talk about drugs that can sometimes have devastating effects.
I think it goes without saying that alcoholism and large alcohol consumption is never a good thing. Personally, I've never seen a continual use drug or alcohol user ever do well. It never ends well. To each their own I guess, but that would be naive, shortsighted, and almost never occurs in a vacuum.
And if one wants to talk about massive tolls, one really should include that legal drug, booze.
I think in some very remote cases, you might be right, where people have such great control and will power that they can manage their drug use to such a degree that it may not be life altering as many others experience. However, I've never seen that and I don't know anyone live(s)(d) like that. I'd like to know who if you can say because that to me would be a great person to examine on what makes them tick in this way.
Haz, I had no idea about your medical challenges. Your attitude is why you got through it. I have always had a lot of respect for you, it just went up.
I have a close family member who is an opiate addict. They are a scourge. Our country uses opiates @ a rate that is scandalous. Docs are FINALLY using sense in watching abuse. As you said on the other thread, our law enforcement and educational resources should be focused on heroin and other hard drugs. Heroin has made a disturbing comeback the last few years. Crystal meth is in many respects worse than heroin, and that is tough to police. Different demographics are more @ risk for alcohol, prescription drugs, crack, heroin and crystal meth.
Ice, when I was a kid I had some shit happen and needed morphine (among other things) and I loved it. Fucking loved it. Warmest sweetest softest wave ever.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it.
But even 25 years later or more--I still remember it and still sort of pine for it.
I've had a few vicodins and so forth since then for various maladies. Same thing, same sensation. Opiates are my friends. My evil, evil friends.
LOL
Years ago I had a septoplasty. I've had my nose broken so many times from fighting and playing sports that years of setting my nose and basically doing my own shaping took a toll on my septum. It basically grew into the back of my nasal cavity and hooked itself into kind of a coiled corkscrew. Caused me all kinds of problems. So I took care of it and had some cosmetic work done to get my nose back into normal shape. Well, after that surgery and coming out of anesthesia, the pain was beyond anything I anticipated and I have a very high threshold to pain. It felt like someone was clobbering me with a baseball bat on my whole head. So the post-op nurse asked me if I wanted something, I said anything to just kill the edge of the pain, so I get a shot of Morphine. Nothing. Didn't even feel it. An hour later she comes back with Demerol. Nothing. Then she says, let's try hydrocodone. BAM.
Like I was never there. Warm, fuzzy, and just felt like I was in the bosom of Christ himself. Not a care in the universe. WOW. I'll never forget that, but man, when it was over, it was over. The next day when they pulled the 8 inch tampons outta each side of my nostrils/nasal cavities, they asked me if I wanted more and I said, no way. It would have ended badly. I could see it.
Any discussion on addiction needs to be based in science and facts. Of all the current mind altering substances used in our culture, cannabis has the lowest addiction rate, and the less harm on the person addicted and society in general.
There is NOTHING inherently wrong in altering your consciousness.
No, not at all. If people want to do that great. Just do it somewhere safe where you aren't a danger to others. I have thought about opening up a chain of high end Dens of Drug Use Iniquity to cater to these peoples with special rooms, but they would have to be medically examined as being sober so they can sign the contract that says, hey, you can use this place, but if you OD, it's on you, not on us and then charge them a shitload of money by the hour.
I'm wondering how I will know I'm in the downward spiral and when exactly the massive toll hits. I've been waiting for decades, and things just keep getting better. I'm afraid if I just say no now, it will all go to shit. A lot of people depend on me, and that would be irresponsible. What a dilemma.
Methadras, Your experience is more common than you might think. And, some people get little or no relief from opiates. It all depends on brain chemistry and the different pain receptors functionality. I have chronic pain and use, among other drugs, gabapentin. It is for seizures. However, for some people, it works on nerve pain. Studies have shown it to be effective, but it is not yet known why. Gabapentin is not addictive, there's no high to it. I call them "stupid pills" because they do effect your memory a bit.
Nick - Thank you. Two of the cancer surgeries were when I was 19 and thought I was bulletproof.
Had no idea about how sick I was until years later when my old man gave me the medical authorization he had signed to have one of my legs amputated at the hip. Wasn't needed, but it was a damn close call. And I was oblivious to it all.
I'm not so much bulletproof any more, but some days I'm pretty sure I'm 100% Kevlar. Some things never change.
It's more dangerous to go fishing than getting high. Now fishing, that's a downward spiral with a massive toll, and I don't think anything positive has ever come from a bunch of guys getting in a boat for fun.
From what I can tell the majority of American adults use alcohol and/or marijuana recreationally with few problems for their entire lives.
Some manage to use heroin in a stable fashion. Cocaine is iffier. Amphetamines are much worse. Psychedelics are self-limiting -- few people want to keep tripping on a regular basis. Ecstasy seems self-limiting too, though overuse may cause permanent brain damage -- as may prozac-type antidepressants BTW.
To me it's a question of where you draw the lines for which drugs under what situations. It's a drag to have to think these things out, but that's the way reality usually works.
To me it's a question of where you draw the lines for which drugs under what situations. It's a drag to have to think these things out, but that's the way reality usually works.
Agreed, so let's keep it simple for now. The announced changes are good. Keep everything else in place with the exception of marijuana. Let's legalize that. Only marijuana for now, and we'll see how that goes.
EPR: I'd be surprised if Lemmy can't be paraphrased easily in three sentences, probably in dozen words, and I'll bet the summary is not impressive.
You don't have to click my links. I always include enough information when I add a link that it's extra credit or a cite for support.
But here we're talking about easing restrictions on something akin to alcohol. Your entire argument is -- look, we already have something deleterious -- alcohol; why can't we add one more thing? Just one more thing?
Why not just scrap the Constitution and reasoned debate and hang "Everything not permitted is forbidden" signs everywhere, because, you know, there are plenty of deleterious things already.
There are good reasonable arguments for legalizing marijuana. They should be heard -- aging heavy metal rock stars notwithstanding.
Is there really something to back this up? Meh... the gateway "theory" seems pretty well debunked at this point. For a guy as talkative as Lemme, in whom every word leads to another word and every sentence to another sentence, it's logical that he'd have to come up with something like this to say, just to fill the air after his last thought.
But it's safe to say that plenty of people do either tobacco, caffeine, ethanol or cannabis (or a combination) and leave it at just that. I really do think the gateway "theory" just stems from people's need to identify a way to catch their would-be heroin-abusing kid before they die. It's wishful thinking emanating from a desire to find a way to punish, deter or warn before it gets to that point. But that step is called simply "curiosity" and "lack of discretion/reasonableness/boundaries" and if your kid has either of those things then there's no telling what would come next. And the first of those is a good thing anyway.
And isn't it safe to say that if you'd smoke something as foul, as poisonous (containing formaldehyde and ammonia) and as pharmacologically demeaning as cigarettes (seeing as its MOA is the same as drugs for Alzheimers), then your self-preservation instinct is pretty close to nil anyway?
We're talking about a drug that people will stand outside in the middle of winter to do and whose users are widely recognized as having no concern for even keeping their toxin out of others' bodies.
And caffeine is just speed "light", isn't it? I always wondered about the comment made by a society that couldn't get out of bed in the morning without drugging itself into action.
Why not just scrap the Constitution and reasoned debate and hang "Everything not permitted is forbidden" signs everywhere, because, you know, there are plenty of deleterious things already.
No, what I'm saying is don't rely on the argument that there are worse things already permitted so why not just one more...instead, get out there and sing the praises -- be an Owsley! Sing the praises of drug-enhanced masturbation or something! Or "deeper" understandings of things, man! Rely on something positive instead of couching it in a negative!
And isn't it safe to say that if you'd smoke something as foul, as poisonous (containing formaldehyde and ammonia) and as pharmacologically demeaning as cigarettes (seeing as its MOA is the same as drugs for Alzheimers), then your self-preservation instinct is pretty close to nil anyway?
We're talking about a drug that people will stand outside in the middle of winter to do and whose users are widely recognized as having no concern for even keeping their toxin out of others' bodies.
And caffeine is just speed "light", isn't it? I always wondered about the comment made by a society that couldn't get out of bed in the morning without drugging itself into action.
I never understood why rehabs allow people to smoke cigarettes while they are in there to kick their opiate addictions. Nick-O-Teen is worse than all of them. You might as well let them smoke heroine rather than cigarettes.
No, what I'm saying is don't rely on the argument that there are worse things already permitted so why not just one more
Your sentiment notwithstanding, the argument that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol works for me.
Being for the legalization of marijuana does not require singing its praises, although of course many have and do, just as alcohol has been widely romanticized.
I'm still not getting your point or maybe you don't have one and this was just a topic you intended as humor.
I never understood why rehabs allow people to smoke cigarettes while they are in there to kick their opiate addictions. Nick-O-Teen is worse than all of them. You might as well let them smoke heroine rather than cigarettes.
The goal of rehabilitation is to get people's lives back to some semblance of workability rather than restore them to a pristine non-addicted state. If addicts and alcoholics could chip a bit or drink a bit and be OK, then the rehab folks would allow that, but addicts and alcoholics can't, so they don't.
You'll note that methadone is an addictive opioid but they give it as treatment to junkies for complicated reasons. They are still addicts but it is a more manageable addiction or so the theory goes.
Smokers may get lung cancer but other than that and the high cost of tobacco, smokers live basically normal lives.
I'm still not getting your point or maybe you don't have one and this was just a topic you intended as humor.
That's because you pointedly refused to watch the video I posted, and then made a excuse for doing so, even while erroneously second guessing what was in it.
Most members of my family were multiple substance abusers (alcohol, heroin, cocaine, and amphetamines) plus I was a hippie back in the day, so I've seen a lot of drug behavior and drug consequences close-up.
No doubt about it -- drugs present very thorny problems. However, I haven't heard much that has made sense to me.
By nature I tend towards libertarianism. The anti-marijuana campaign from those who support alcohol strikes me as nothing more than hypocrisy and intellectual laziness.
Speed is something else entirely. I have no enlightened plans for speed. It is just so horrible. Japan dealt with its amphetamine problem after WWII by summary execution of dealers and users. It worked. I don't advocate that but sadly, I understand.
Yep. (been there) Totally understand where the addiction comes in. It's awesome when you need it. But the idea of needing to take it day in and day out just to function. No thanks.
64 comments:
Like lookin' for that perfect wave.
I actually think "Just say no." was the best advice I've heard on drugs.
If you never want use them, then it's the only thing you need to do.
If you want to quit, or even not do them today, then it's the only thing that works. All the rest is window dressing.
I'm not saying "Just say no." is easy, but it is what you need to do. The rest is just elaborate ways of getting there, and often fooling people into believing there is some other way around it, but there is not. You will be faced with the decision, and you will either say "no" or you won't. The sooner an addict gets to the place where they understand that, and accept the responsibility, the better.
To this day, I can't justify any useful benefit from illicit drug use. It's always a downward spiral and takes a massive toll over time.
The straight people are always right. It's the hip withits that make the world caca and then tell us we're smelling perfume.
LEMMY!
Now we're just getting silly here.
Just say no begins with just not buying whatever you are addicted to...from cigarettes to heroin. Sounds simple. It isn't. But it is simple minded to think there is any other way to quit anything.
Yep. Lemmy's exactly the right guy to make the case that alcohol, drugs and wanton sex will ruin your life.
Line up, kids!
Trooper York said...
Many sad and dysfunctional woman became nuns back in the day. They did not socialize well and could not get along with anyone.
So they put them in charge of children.
August 11, 2013 at 12:54 PM
The biggest, tallest, most fantastic high that has ever been, Lemmy was not on it.
Just saying...
But, that's not the high the interview is referring to. Didn't mean to play with the names there ;)
The interview refers to a more earthly bond high. A solo high.
Not the "surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God" high.
I don't mean to fuss over this, but now that I'm on it. and we have more relaxed rules of engagement...
I looked up why the LEM (Lunar Excursion Module) was changed to LM (Lunar Module)
Wikipedia says ...
Over the course of its development, the name was officially changed to Lunar Module (LM), eliminating the word "excursion". According to George Low, Manager of the Apollo Spacecraft Program Office, this was because NASA was afraid that the word "excursion" might lend a frivolous note to Apollo.[5] After the name change from "LEM" to "LM", the pronunciation of the abbreviation did not change, as the habit became ingrained among engineers, the astronauts, and the media to universally pronounce "LM" as "lem" which is easier than saying the letters individually.
What does that have to do with hard drugs?
I suppose I would have to engage in some experimentation to make sure I'm speaking like I know what I'm talking about. And not in speculative scholarly? form.
Halfcocked.
bagoh20 said...
I'm not saying "Just say no." is easy
Never had the slightest problem.
Having seen what booze did to my father, I wanted no part of it.
Other than the play... it is a good topic for discussion.
It has all the elements of how to live beyond the means necessary for survival.
Its a sign of some progress, if you will.
While some people have to, or choose to, worry about the more mundane preoccupations of job, not the one from the bible, job, the one that I hinted at this morning, and raising children, some people have chosen not to worry themselves with those things.
That kind of progress.
I know this because there was some discussion about this just recently toping the charts.
It's always a downward spiral and takes a massive toll over time.
No, that's not the case, not always.
And if one wants to talk about massive tolls, one really should include that legal drug, booze.
bagoh20 said...
I'm not saying "Just say no." is easy, but it is what you need to do. The rest is just elaborate ways of getting there...
"Just say no" is certainly the bottom line, but some of the other stuff makes it much easier to get there. Number one being, don't hang out with people who like to do drugs.
All my friends tell me not to give in to peer pressure.
People do alcohol and drugs to get high because they think it's better than the alternative, at least for them, at least for that particular moment.
What makes it all so sad is they're usually right about that.
Yep. Lemmy's exactly the right guy to make the case that alcohol, drugs and wanton sex will ruin your life.
Come on, it's not like he's Keith Richards or Mick Jagger. Now THOSE two have ruined lives.
... oh, wait, that's not right either ....
basta! writes: And if one wants to talk about massive tolls, one really should include that legal drug, booze.
OK, talk about it. We have a long history of curtailing alcohol in this country. New laws are enacted to restrict it -- not to enable it -- unless you favor Prohibition. But here we're talking about easing restrictions on something akin to alcohol. Your entire argument is -- look, we already have something deleterious -- alcohol; why can't we add one more thing? Just one more thing?
And for the record, drug use can feel like shit, and I mean during. I got busted up badly in a car accident when I was 20. I spent the first day after surgery getting injections of morphine. I had VERY bad trips. Switched to Demerol injections on day two. Still didn't like it, but better than morphine. Switched to Demerol pills(?) on day three. By day four, I'd only take them to try and sleep through the night. But mostly the first few days it was a toss-up on whether it was better feeling the pain of a shattered leg and broken back and other related injuries or taking the pain meds and all the crappy feelings that came with that.
By week two I was down to taking other stuff for the pain, and only when it was bad and I needed to sleep. Ugh, that felt terrible.
It made me question why anyone would do that to make themselves feel better. And then, one night about three months later, I woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat and all I wanted was morphine.
THAT scared the shit out of me, and I was happy I didn't have any opiates with me at the time. I've never had that sensation since then, but damn it was scary powerful.
El Pollo, no, that's not an argument I was making, but I guess I wasn't clear. I was disagreeing with Methadras' assertion that illegal drug use is always a downward spiral that takes a massive toll --- and suggesting that he include booze if he was going to talk about drugs that can sometimes have devastating effects.
Ice, when I was a kid I had some shit happen and needed morphine (among other things) and I loved it. Fucking loved it. Warmest sweetest softest wave ever.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it.
But even 25 years later or more--I still remember it and still sort of pine for it.
I've had a few vicodins and so forth since then for various maladies. Same thing, same sensation. Opiates are my friends. My evil, evil friends.
LOL
Your entire argument is -- look, we already have something deleterious -- alcohol; why can't we add one more thing? Just one more thing?
Deleterious drinking... there is a nipple joke in there somewhere. But because I haven't touched the stuff in so long I'm having trouble spelling it out.
Deleterious drinking? -- I never deleted anything written while drinking.
Can we call this the Nancy Reagan thread. This sounds like a bunch of WW2 guys sitting in the Legion Hall, shitfaced, talking about how bad drugs are. Then they go out and kill someone in their car, or beat up their wife and/or kids if they make it home.
Damn, people have been altering their minds since way before Christ. How about minimizing the damage instead of looking for a perfect world? Because believe me, there isn't a motherfucking perfect world to be had. There is NOTHING inherently wrong in altering your consciousness.
How about minimizing the damage instead of looking for a perfect world?
Are you saying there is some other strategy that results in less damage than just saying no?
You could certainly argue that there are benefits to drug use, and that we should minimize the cost/benefit ratio. But that is a different strategy than minimizing the damage.
I can't ever justify clicking a video or audio link just because someone says there's something good several minutes down the line.
If it's that good, type it out.
If Lemmy's bottom line is "Just say no,' say so. It's not a long or complicated or new thought at all.
"Can we call this the Nancy Reagan thread. This sounds like a bunch of WW2 guys sitting in the Legion Hall, shitfaced, talking about how bad drugs are."
And your comment makes you sound like some dreary 60 year old Boomer.
Drugs are bad period. Want to get high, become an alcoholic.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it.
I'm not. I'm sorry I was in the car accident!
The best feeling I ever got from a drug was before a surgery for an inguinal hernia. This happened a little over a year after the car accident in question.
It was an out patient procedure. While lying in the waiting area they put an IV in me. After a few minutes of feeling nothing, I asked of they had given me anything.
"Oh no, that's just fluid. You'll know when we give you stuff."
A few minutes later they injected SOMETHING into the IV. I don't know what it was, and I don't want to know. It made me feel slightly drowsy at first, and then it hit.
WHOOOOSH! All the tension in my muscles just went away. And then I turned to water and flowed off the table and then I was out. When I woke up I discovered that I no longer had the hernia, but couldn't even wiggle my fingers without my balls hurting. That was no fun.
Nor was it fun when I got home and my mother gave me a copy of Bob Eucker's "Catcher in the Wry". A horrible buck for someone recovering from an inguinal hernia operation. Riotously funny, and every laugh was pure agony.
I'll never think of lawn chairs the same way again.
Opiates are my friends. My evil, evil friends.
I got enough of those already.
Creeley23 said: If Lemmy's bottom line is "Just say no,' say so. It's not a long or complicated or new thought at all.
It's not his point. The line I did quote contrasts nicely with his overall message. That's why I put both the quite and the video up. I transcribed the quote from the video which already took some work to get right and didn't have time to transcribe the whole thing.
So shoot me for laziness.
I have rules about things. Call them "Haz's Rules" for the purposes of this conversation.
One of them is a one-drink limit if I am somewhere that requires I drive home. And that drops to a zero-drink limit if my mode of transport is a motorcycle.
The second rule is to avoid prescription pain relief meds at all costs, but keep a small supply stashed for the Saturday night when I break a tooth and my buddy the dentist is three states away.
I had cancer surgeries three times, and heart surgery once. After the second surgery, when I had blissfully befriended morphine and several of its cousins, I had a hellish two weeks of withdrawal. After that, I developed a high pain tolerance and used just enough to take the hard edge off, and for as short a while as I could tolerate.
Life it too short to add addiction to the list of shit to deal with.
That's why I put both the quite and the video up.
Great example of a separable prefix verb.
Deleterious drinking? -- I never deleted anything written while drinking.
I was picturing tits for deleterious... that was just me.
Yours is better.
EPR: So what is his point and your point sans video?
So shoot me for laziness.
More old western movies, less fighting.
Basta! said...
El Pollo, no, that's not an argument I was making, but I guess I wasn't clear. I was disagreeing with Methadras' assertion that illegal drug use is always a downward spiral that takes a massive toll --- and suggesting that he include booze if he was going to talk about drugs that can sometimes have devastating effects.
I think it goes without saying that alcoholism and large alcohol consumption is never a good thing. Personally, I've never seen a continual use drug or alcohol user ever do well. It never ends well. To each their own I guess, but that would be naive, shortsighted, and almost never occurs in a vacuum.
Basta! said...
No, that's not the case, not always.
And if one wants to talk about massive tolls, one really should include that legal drug, booze.
I think in some very remote cases, you might be right, where people have such great control and will power that they can manage their drug use to such a degree that it may not be life altering as many others experience. However, I've never seen that and I don't know anyone live(s)(d) like that. I'd like to know who if you can say because that to me would be a great person to examine on what makes them tick in this way.
Haz, I had no idea about your medical challenges. Your attitude is why you got through it. I have always had a lot of respect for you, it just went up.
I have a close family member who is an opiate addict. They are a scourge. Our country uses opiates @ a rate that is scandalous. Docs are FINALLY using sense in watching abuse. As you said on the other thread, our law enforcement and educational resources should be focused on heroin and other hard drugs. Heroin has made a disturbing comeback the last few years. Crystal meth is in many respects worse than heroin, and that is tough to police. Different demographics are more @ risk for alcohol, prescription drugs, crack, heroin and crystal meth.
CEO-MMP said...
Ice, when I was a kid I had some shit happen and needed morphine (among other things) and I loved it. Fucking loved it. Warmest sweetest softest wave ever.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it.
But even 25 years later or more--I still remember it and still sort of pine for it.
I've had a few vicodins and so forth since then for various maladies. Same thing, same sensation. Opiates are my friends. My evil, evil friends.
LOL
Years ago I had a septoplasty. I've had my nose broken so many times from fighting and playing sports that years of setting my nose and basically doing my own shaping took a toll on my septum. It basically grew into the back of my nasal cavity and hooked itself into kind of a coiled corkscrew. Caused me all kinds of problems. So I took care of it and had some cosmetic work done to get my nose back into normal shape. Well, after that surgery and coming out of anesthesia, the pain was beyond anything I anticipated and I have a very high threshold to pain. It felt like someone was clobbering me with a baseball bat on my whole head. So the post-op nurse asked me if I wanted something, I said anything to just kill the edge of the pain, so I get a shot of Morphine. Nothing. Didn't even feel it. An hour later she comes back with Demerol. Nothing. Then she says, let's try hydrocodone. BAM.
Like I was never there. Warm, fuzzy, and just felt like I was in the bosom of Christ himself. Not a care in the universe. WOW. I'll never forget that, but man, when it was over, it was over. The next day when they pulled the 8 inch tampons outta each side of my nostrils/nasal cavities, they asked me if I wanted more and I said, no way. It would have ended badly. I could see it.
Any discussion on addiction needs to be based in science and facts. Of all the current mind altering substances used in our culture, cannabis has the lowest addiction rate, and the less harm on the person addicted and society in general.
ndspinelli said...
There is NOTHING inherently wrong in altering your consciousness.
No, not at all. If people want to do that great. Just do it somewhere safe where you aren't a danger to others. I have thought about opening up a chain of high end Dens of Drug Use Iniquity to cater to these peoples with special rooms, but they would have to be medically examined as being sober so they can sign the contract that says, hey, you can use this place, but if you OD, it's on you, not on us and then charge them a shitload of money by the hour.
I'm wondering how I will know I'm in the downward spiral and when exactly the massive toll hits. I've been waiting for decades, and things just keep getting better. I'm afraid if I just say no now, it will all go to shit. A lot of people depend on me, and that would be irresponsible. What a dilemma.
Methadras, Your experience is more common than you might think. And, some people get little or no relief from opiates. It all depends on brain chemistry and the different pain receptors functionality. I have chronic pain and use, among other drugs, gabapentin. It is for seizures. However, for some people, it works on nerve pain. Studies have shown it to be effective, but it is not yet known why. Gabapentin is not addictive, there's no high to it. I call them "stupid pills" because they do effect your memory a bit.
Nick - Thank you. Two of the cancer surgeries were when I was 19 and thought I was bulletproof.
Had no idea about how sick I was until years later when my old man gave me the medical authorization he had signed to have one of my legs amputated at the hip. Wasn't needed, but it was a damn close call. And I was oblivious to it all.
I'm not so much bulletproof any more, but some days I'm pretty sure I'm 100% Kevlar. Some things never change.
It's more dangerous to go fishing than getting high. Now fishing, that's a downward spiral with a massive toll, and I don't think anything positive has ever come from a bunch of guys getting in a boat for fun.
From what I can tell the majority of American adults use alcohol and/or marijuana recreationally with few problems for their entire lives.
Some manage to use heroin in a stable fashion. Cocaine is iffier. Amphetamines are much worse. Psychedelics are self-limiting -- few people want to keep tripping on a regular basis. Ecstasy seems self-limiting too, though overuse may cause permanent brain damage -- as may prozac-type antidepressants BTW.
To me it's a question of where you draw the lines for which drugs under what situations. It's a drag to have to think these things out, but that's the way reality usually works.
To me it's a question of where you draw the lines for which drugs under what situations. It's a drag to have to think these things out, but that's the way reality usually works.
Agreed, so let's keep it simple for now. The announced changes are good. Keep everything else in place with the exception of marijuana. Let's legalize that. Only marijuana for now, and we'll see how that goes.
creeley23 said...
PR: So what is his point and your point sans video?
It's a 3.5 minute video for crying out loud--not a 40 minute bloggingheads teat-t-teat someone is asking us to listen to find the pony inside.
I'm not your typist. Sorry if you can't watch YouTube video. Somebody remind me to never to click on a creeley23 link.
EPR: I'd be surprised if Lemmy can't be paraphrased easily in three sentences, probably in dozen words, and I'll bet the summary is not impressive.
You don't have to click my links. I always include enough information when I add a link that it's extra credit or a cite for support.
But here we're talking about easing restrictions on something akin to alcohol. Your entire argument is -- look, we already have something deleterious -- alcohol; why can't we add one more thing? Just one more thing?
Why not just scrap the Constitution and reasoned debate and hang "Everything not permitted is forbidden" signs everywhere, because, you know, there are plenty of deleterious things already.
There are good reasonable arguments for legalizing marijuana. They should be heard -- aging heavy metal rock stars notwithstanding.
Is there really something to back this up? Meh... the gateway "theory" seems pretty well debunked at this point. For a guy as talkative as Lemme, in whom every word leads to another word and every sentence to another sentence, it's logical that he'd have to come up with something like this to say, just to fill the air after his last thought.
But it's safe to say that plenty of people do either tobacco, caffeine, ethanol or cannabis (or a combination) and leave it at just that. I really do think the gateway "theory" just stems from people's need to identify a way to catch their would-be heroin-abusing kid before they die. It's wishful thinking emanating from a desire to find a way to punish, deter or warn before it gets to that point. But that step is called simply "curiosity" and "lack of discretion/reasonableness/boundaries" and if your kid has either of those things then there's no telling what would come next. And the first of those is a good thing anyway.
El Pollo, never click on a creeley23 link.
Also? LEMMY! I love me some Motorhead. I'll have to listen to Sacrifice later tonight.
And isn't it safe to say that if you'd smoke something as foul, as poisonous (containing formaldehyde and ammonia) and as pharmacologically demeaning as cigarettes (seeing as its MOA is the same as drugs for Alzheimers), then your self-preservation instinct is pretty close to nil anyway?
We're talking about a drug that people will stand outside in the middle of winter to do and whose users are widely recognized as having no concern for even keeping their toxin out of others' bodies.
And caffeine is just speed "light", isn't it? I always wondered about the comment made by a society that couldn't get out of bed in the morning without drugging itself into action.
Why not just scrap the Constitution and reasoned debate and hang "Everything not permitted is forbidden" signs everywhere, because, you know, there are plenty of deleterious things already.
No, what I'm saying is don't rely on the argument that there are worse things already permitted so why not just one more...instead, get out there and sing the praises -- be an Owsley! Sing the praises of drug-enhanced masturbation or something! Or "deeper" understandings of things, man! Rely on something positive instead of couching it in a negative!
Sing the praises of drug-enhanced masturbation..
There are drugs that enhance masturbation?
Rhythm and Balls said...
And isn't it safe to say that if you'd smoke something as foul, as poisonous (containing formaldehyde and ammonia) and as pharmacologically demeaning as cigarettes (seeing as its MOA is the same as drugs for Alzheimers), then your self-preservation instinct is pretty close to nil anyway?
We're talking about a drug that people will stand outside in the middle of winter to do and whose users are widely recognized as having no concern for even keeping their toxin out of others' bodies.
And caffeine is just speed "light", isn't it? I always wondered about the comment made by a society that couldn't get out of bed in the morning without drugging itself into action.
I never understood why rehabs allow people to smoke cigarettes while they are in there to kick their opiate addictions. Nick-O-Teen is worse than all of them. You might as well let them smoke heroine rather than cigarettes.
No, what I'm saying is don't rely on the argument that there are worse things already permitted so why not just one more
Your sentiment notwithstanding, the argument that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol works for me.
Being for the legalization of marijuana does not require singing its praises, although of course many have and do, just as alcohol has been widely romanticized.
I'm still not getting your point or maybe you don't have one and this was just a topic you intended as humor.
I never understood why rehabs allow people to smoke cigarettes while they are in there to kick their opiate addictions. Nick-O-Teen is worse than all of them. You might as well let them smoke heroine rather than cigarettes.
The goal of rehabilitation is to get people's lives back to some semblance of workability rather than restore them to a pristine non-addicted state. If addicts and alcoholics could chip a bit or drink a bit and be OK, then the rehab folks would allow that, but addicts and alcoholics can't, so they don't.
You'll note that methadone is an addictive opioid but they give it as treatment to junkies for complicated reasons. They are still addicts but it is a more manageable addiction or so the theory goes.
Smokers may get lung cancer but other than that and the high cost of tobacco, smokers live basically normal lives.
I'm still not getting your point or maybe you don't have one and this was just a topic you intended as humor.
That's because you pointedly refused to watch the video I posted, and then made a excuse for doing so, even while erroneously second guessing what was in it.
Who or what crawled up your ass today?
You're a mite testy yourself.
And you've pointedly refused to summarize your point so I'd say you're no improvement.
If your point requires watching a rock star video, I'll take it you have no point worth my attending to.
Forget I asked.
Most members of my family were multiple substance abusers (alcohol, heroin, cocaine, and amphetamines) plus I was a hippie back in the day, so I've seen a lot of drug behavior and drug consequences close-up.
No doubt about it -- drugs present very thorny problems. However, I haven't heard much that has made sense to me.
By nature I tend towards libertarianism. The anti-marijuana campaign from those who support alcohol strikes me as nothing more than hypocrisy and intellectual laziness.
Speed is something else entirely. I have no enlightened plans for speed. It is just so horrible. Japan dealt with its amphetamine problem after WWII by summary execution of dealers and users. It worked. I don't advocate that but sadly, I understand.
Then she says, let's try hydrocodone. BAM.
Yep. (been there) Totally understand where the addiction comes in. It's awesome when you need it. But the idea of needing to take it day in and day out just to function. No thanks.
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