Anil Dash's Ten Rules of Internet are getting a fair amount of attention recently.
I find Rule #6 and the second bonus rule particularly interesting in light of recent events. Applicable? Maybe.
What happens if a person breaks a rule? The internet will count to ten?
577 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 577 Newer› Newest»Not too long ago I had to replace the gas valve on our water heater.
While I was at it, I figured I might as well swap out the original aluminum anode rod with a magnesium anode rod I'd been saving.
I removed the aluminum anode rod and was surprised to find that it had hardly corroded at all, even though it was two years old. Still, sometimes the hot water would smell a little bit like sulfur so I installed the magnesium rod, anyway.
No more smell.
Oh, and I removed the expansion tank and reset the air pressure. When I went to put the expansion tank back into it's threaded fitting, I didn't have the strength to tighten it enough. It leaked just the tiniest little bit.
I asked for advice and the guy at Home Depot said to leave it alone for a while and see if the threads don't conform themselves after a day or two.
He was right. The leak stopped all by itself without any further tightening.
You toe the party line on everything else, why should I think you feel any differently than directed this time?
You think you know me and you don't know me.
I'll bet you don't know a lot of things you think you do.
One of those guys.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
I've been on opposite sides of a comment argument/debate with PHX but I dont' believe that I've ever called him/her names nor do I remember that someone called him/her names.
There were a couple of trolls that went that route, but IIRC phx wasn't one of them.
madawaskan said...
I just heard from Pollo via email.
He was involved in a sailboat accident with his daughter and a neighbor (capsized).
****
Oh holy ...
Glad El Pollo is okay.
Holy crap that is scary.
Second that. Glad everybody's OK.
Derek: [at the diving competition] You know what you almost never see? Somebody heckling a diver.
[blows an air horn just as a diver is going into his dive]
(Back to School, 1986)
Read my comment at 1:57. Then come back.
Okay ...
I didn't say any of you owed it to me, or had a responsibility to say something. I just said as decent people you might have recognized I would have appreciated not feeling like you all were good with someone calling me that.
Done.
By this standard, everyone that has bad comments made about them should have everyone else stand up for them. Who are you standing for, phx? Have you?
I didn't see those comments, probably because of pro-active skimming of comments on my part. I'm not going to read every comment on a blog I don't run just looking for an opportunity to be offended on someone else's behalf. And I'm sure as Hell not going to ask everyone else to do so on my behalf, as you have done.
And yes, that is what you have done, because you are trying to shame others into feeling bad for not coming to your defense.
Eileen, did anyone here call Methadras out on his abusive language toward the commenter Inga@ 1:44 PM, besides myself? Did Phx? Did Eileen? No matter how dislikable a person may be to some or all, they are human beings. Do we not as a society have rules and laws that we use to keep our society from becoming an anarchy? Or perhaps a jungle, with big bad ass bugs. Or ass-bugs?
Consider me your conscience. I'll be here nudging until I'm deleted.
My friends, may in offer a suggestion? And it's just that - a suggestion.
Stop responding to Fiona. Just ignore what he or she posts. He or she merely wants to ruin the good thing that is growing here. To engage with him or her furthers that purpose, and then before long Lem's will look like the last days of Althouse.
We don't want that.
Don't poke the snake no matter how hard it hisses at you.
Well said Michael Haz.
Bagoh, just don't leave them in your pocket or on the nightstand. My mind thanks you.
By this standard, everyone that has bad comments made about them should have everyone else stand up for them. Who are you standing for, phx? Have you?
By your standard no one should be allowed to make a plea for human decency until they can prove they would themselves be decent in a similar situation.
Do you see how ridiculous and untenable that is? At least think about it.
"Why should we intervene to help those victims of the Boston bombing? How do we know they would do the same for us?"
By this standard, everyone that has bad comments made about them should have everyone else stand up for them.
This is actually an interesting conversational point. What responsibility do other commenters have to defend each other from other commenters? Do we have any?
Is there a level of bad commenting and/or attacking below which we can say to ourselves..."He/she is a big/boy or girl and can handle it." And a level above which we can decide that "This is far enough"? Might that line between the two depend on the commenter and how that person has handled themselves in the past?
She who will not be named was always playing that game. Make comments that caused others to attack back either reasonably or sometimes a bit more vituperatively. Once the bait had been taken then she would plead the bully card and expect people to come to the rescue.
Others were perceived by the commentariat as being unfairly picked upon through no fault of their own or were ganged up on by a group of others. (Just like junior high ....sigh. Thought I left that eons ago.) At that point some people did ride to rescue.
But the question remains do we as a group of people who are interacting in an unreal environment have a duty to police the comment section ourselves? And if so to what level or to what triggers?
I never felt that I was looking into the dark heart of humanity when reading the comments at Althouse. Every so often Cedarford would say something genuinely evil, but the insults were mostly innocuous, or so it seemed to me. Some people have a real flair for insults. That's their literary genre. I didn't especially agree with Shouting Thomas but his insults were funny........we're all pixels in cyberspace. I just don't think it's possible to inflict any real wounds in such an environment. ....Conflict attracts interest. I see nothing wrong with insulting people as long as it's done with sufficient malice and wit. I thought some of the criticism of Inga was over the top and unfair, but she gave as good as she got. I don't think educher made her cry into her pillow at night. All life is high school except when it's lived on the Internet.
El Pollo Raylan said...
Someone needs to step in between Althouse and Ann when these fights break out in her writing.
Althouse strongly believes in the motto "live freely through writing."
The German translation is Schreiben Macht Frei
July 18, 2013 at 2:52 PM
**********
Hey El Pollo!
And there you are.
I don't know why reading that in German makes me laugh.
Comment tu dit--"rudderless" en Allemand?
Palladian, you misunderstand. In order for a community to survive and thrive they need to identify what destroyed communities that came before theirs
I believe I have identified it: jealousy.
The German translation is Schreiben Macht Frei
Hehehe, that's nasty, chickelit....
I think the best rule of commenting is "Don't be an asshole." Now, we all fail that from time to time, so maybe it should be modified to "Don't consistently be an asshole."
But, some people are just assholes. Don't engage them.
Of course that's easy for me to say. No one was calling me a pedophile.
I saw his hyperbole, yes. I took it for what it was.
You see targeted abuse. I see anger from someone who expresses himself in a particular way. (In this instance, the anger appeared to be directed to you, by the way, not Inga.) Do I find it offputting? Sure. That's why I just kept walking. If Lem doesn't want people expressing themselves that way, I expect he'll take care of it.
The particular commenter you want to defend, as far as I ever saw, never, ever made a substantive contribution. She struck me as a consummate flame thrower. I didn't know why *she* was allowed to participate in that way; it just invited and nurtured the ugliness. In the end, I figured it must be because she accurately reflected what althouse herself was unwilling to say. In the last couple of posts, it seemed to me that althouse was beginning to adopt exactly that tone.
I found *that* to be exceptionally disappointing.
It's human nature, we don't like correction, especially when it's aimed at ourselves. We see ourselves as above the fray. We never recognize our own part in it. It hurts to self examine without anesthesia.
But insects don't feel pain, do they?
Probably my mixed British heritage, but I have an inherent inability to deal with people who are being rude. I try not to be rude myself and that stiff upper lip or what have you has me becoming more distant when people are rude.
I ignore people who are rude to me, for the most part. And, insults on the internet are almost always a way of baiting people, a cheap technique that is juvenile. How does one respond to that? Defend the person as though there really was something to the insult that needs rebuttal?
There's also the reality that insulting others isn't the only detriment to a community, commenting or otherwise. There's also the instigators, or the Alinsky rule maker-keepers. They don't get their hands dirty, but they like to play people off one another, or go off to tell on each other, whispering, "Are you going to take that? Did you hear what they said?!"
I remember someone, I forget who, reporting some casual comment of mine back to Trooper a while ago. We had a good exchange and I had no ulterior or underlying motives, just making a joke, if I remember. But whoever had to go and whisper to Trooper, "Paddy is causing you grief," that's a Loki-like innocence that dances in the drama.
Some trolls are evil looking, some trolls are nicely dressed with pretty bows in their hair. Both are destructive.
Not engaging in insults to begin with, from either side, is a good step. Unless it's funny of course. Most trolls, or responses to them, aren't funny.
I believe I have identified it: jealousy.
July 18, 2013 at 3:13 PM
************
Caste systems/
phx said...
they can prove they would themselves be decent in a similar situation.
The accurate comparison would be "if they have already proven they would not do the same".
This is actually an interesting conversational point. What responsibility do other commenters have to defend each other from other commenters? Do we have any?
I speak only for myself: nobody has a responsibility to defend me. I don't have a responsibility to defend anyone else. I may choose to do so because I believe it makes me human, because I believe a moral and graceful life is more worth living.
oops, Michael, I just saw your exceptionally good advice. I'll do my best to follow it from here on out.
I think I've made it pretty clear where I stand with all of this, anyway.
By your standard no one should be allowed to make a plea for human decency until they can prove they would themselves be decent in a similar situation.
That is it exactly. Don't YOU tell ME I need to go out of my way to tell a third party to play nice on YOUR behalf if you haven't already done something similar yourself. Otherwise you are just a scold. "You'd better play nice, or I'll tell Icepick [Methadra/Bagoh/Yule Brenner/etc.]!" Crimminy.
Asking others to live up to standards that you yourself won't live up to first _and_ independently is appallingly bad form.
If you Google something like this:
phx pedophile site:althouse.blogspot.com
you'll find someone called "Jay" throwing the insult in a long and tedious I challenged you to a debate - first answer my question exchange.
Meh. It's no fun getting called names, and the imperfect anonymity of Google allows people to type things they'd never dare say to your face.
If you like arguing that much, it comes with the territory, I guess. But I prefer to not engage with the unpleasant, crude and obnoxious. No offense, of course. (See what I did there?) In real life, I've come to the conclusion that the need to always be right can be an unpleasant personality trait, even separated from the need to let everybody around you know that you're always right.
Am I right?
That is it exactly. Don't YOU tell ME I need to go out of my way to tell a third party to play nice on YOUR behalf
I never told you that. If you keep posting things about me and my positions that are wrong again and again, I'm going to start calling you out for the dummy you appear to be.
So Eileen, are you stating it is acceptable to verbally abuse someone you don't like and if you witness it you are correct in simply walking away?
Is it humane to just walk away from witnessing a stranger who may not be attractive to you in many ways, being abused? I don't think that is an admirable quality.
But hey, it's just me, a voice in the wildnerness in which there are trees being eaten by insects.
Palladian - as often is the case - succint, direct, and correct.
If you like arguing that much, it comes with the territory, I guess. But I prefer to not engage with the unpleasant, crude and obnoxious.
That's why I left and never went back.
Succinct... I hate my stupid phone.
"Why should we intervene to help those victims of the Boston bombing? How do we know they would do the same for us?"
Oh, please. What ridiculous bullshit. We're not talking about blowing people up, we're talking about manners.
You goons on the left have no sense of proportion whatsoever.
I would certainly oppose a standard that says no name-calling or insulting ever. I grew up in an environment similar to what you see between Walt and his barber in Grand Torino.
But for that to work, the insults have to be thoughtful, creative, and interesting. Libtard and Rethuglican should have been retired long ago. So should She-Wolf. Pedophile is pretty harsh, but could be okay in context, and used once. Repeated use is clearly abusive.
Just my thoughts.
Yule Brenner?
What the fuck?
In the interest of a better environment here than the envirnoment at Althouse turned out to be I'm putting Icepick on ignore.
It's best to ignore obnoxious comments. They're just words on the page, after all. It isn't as if someone is sitting there in front of you right in your face saying nasty things. (Even then, it's best to walk away most of the time.)
It has always seemed to me that the worst flame throwers were just doing it for attention. Don't give it to them. They dry up without it.
But I'll argue with good will with grownups of average-to-better intelligence.
fionamcgee said...
Eileen, did anyone here call Methadras out on his abusive language toward the commenter Inga@ 1:44 PM, besides myself?
Don't remember you there, but I do remember bag being very specific about calling a King's X on the rough language.
And it got results.
Unless you're bag in drag, you, whomever you may be, didn't say a word.
Peter Martin: You talk too much.
Robot Gunslinger: You say something, boy?
Peter Martin: I said you talk too much.
Robot Gunslinger: Try to make me shut up.
(Westworld, 1973)
It has always seemed to me that the worst flame throwers were just doing it for attention. Don't give it to them. They dry up without it.
Good advise.
I like the biting criticism, and as one of the "lonely" ones along with phx, I know that I dished out as much as I got back. A lot of the times though looking back, wit dissolved into just insult, and that's what I want to avoid in my internet exchanges from here on out.
Another point is that, cliche though it be, ignoring really DOES work. I, like phx, tried to respond to Jay several times. That was stupid on my part. What sort of response did I expect to get back, anyways?
Freeman Hunt said...
Heh. I'm pretty sure I know who fiona is, and I figured it out a long time ago. I've seen no one guess it. I assume that's owing to current events and Althouse still looming large in imaginations.
In any case, I don't see why anyone needs to worry about it.
******
Probably because they haven't cared to.
There's more interesting things to do here, no?
I'm putting Icepick on ignore.
That's too bad, phx, because he actually just made a point worth taking.
"You, know, the King of Siam, who went down into Mexico after Moses parted the Rio Grande."
Wait a minute!
Yule Brenner went down on Mexico? He was gay?
Jeeez another illusion shattered.
I can never watch "The Magnificent Seven" again without finding a subtext in it.
Thanks a lot ed.
Probably because they haven't cared to.
People have been guessing that poster's identity continuously. I'm only referring to those people.
I don't know Eileen, he's pretty thoroughly misrepresented my points of view so I don't see why I should tend him any mind.
Got ya.
Oops--I was talking to Freeman.
Yes, Eileen, I agree. Perhaps phx missed it because it was prefaced the "you goons...", but definitely a valid point.
Doesn't sound like a parlor game that I would encourage.
Ritmo!!!
What do I win?
Chris: [Chris has discovered Lee waiting for him in his room] Thought you were looking for the Johnson brothers? Or at least one Johnson.
(The Magnificent Seven, 1960)
@phx
I remember the pedophile stuff.
My non-response to that was because Althouse herself warned us that they'd delete shit like that and the responses to it.
But it did not get deleted.
Other flame wars were deleted, seemingly at random.
So I get your being flummoxed by other not calling out an asshole. I ignored them out of respect for the direction to ignore them.
It was not because anyone enjoyed seeing that crap printed. Quite the opposite.
but I'm glad you're here, despite our differences of opinion.
Stop putting up with insults, you insects! If you do not defend each other, I will demean you again!
What responsibility do other commenters have to defend each other from other commenters? Do we have any?
How about: I have a responsibility to not attempt to make others feel guilty for not being offended on my behalf about things they haven't seen.
I don't feel at all responsible about not seeing comments made on a blog I don't run that may have hurt phx's feelings, and I certainly don't appreciate his trying to make me feel guilty about it now.
I don't read everything on every blog I frequent, and I don't expect anyone else to, except maybe the person/persons running the blog. (And on large blogs, such as THIS ONE, I can even forgive that.)
And I certainly don't expect everyone to get offended on my behalf when my sensibilities get bruised, or someone calls me a bad name. I've been called a Nazi often enough over the years*, as well as a racist and a Kloset Klansman. I don't expect everyone to come to my defense when it happens. If some want to, fine. But mostly such comments richly deserve to be ignored.
And in any event I certainly wouldn't expect some tool like phx to do so, as he'd probably be there cheering the other party on. (Experience is a bitter teacher, but one that tends to tell the truth over time.)
IF you can't handle that kind of vitriol coming your way from time to time, you should probably not comment anywhere, or not read comments anywhere. Stick to Facebook, and choose your friends with care. That's just the way it is.
I appreciate that a lot Pogo. I always most appreciate the guys you've fought most bitterly with reaching out a hand.
Thanks.
Pogo, yes she was very inconsistent.
phx said...
In the interest of a better environment here than the envirnoment at Althouse turned out to be I'm putting Icepick on ignore.
phx said...
But I'll argue with good will with grownups of average-to-better intelligence.
Snide insults while posing as reasonable. It's the hypocrisy I find objectionable.
Vin: You know the first time I took a job as a hired gun, fellow told me, "Vin, you can't afford to care." There's your problem.
Chris: One thing I don't need is somebody telling me my problem.
Vin: Like I said before, that's your problem. You got involved in this village and the people in it.
Chris: Do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? By the way did you ever see a grown man naked?
(The Magnificent Seven, 1960)
But the question remains do we as a group of people who are interacting in an unreal environment have a duty to police the comment section ourselves? And if so to what level or to what triggers?
Ultimately, that can only be done by one person. And they may well be an asshole about it. Razib Khan*, proprietor of various iterations of the Gene Expresion blogs (among others) is a complete master and bully over his comment sections: If you are not adding value, he will hammer you. He will ban people pretty quickly as well. And it works very well for what he is doing. That wouldn't work here, but it is something to consider.
* For the record, Razib is in my opinion one of the all-time great bloggers, and his comment sections have much more light than heat. It really works for him, and what he is doing.
Please don't bite my head off Paddy O. I hear you say some terrific prayers in your line of work, oh preying mantis.
I was attempting to buzz out a funny.
How about: I have a responsibility to not attempt to make others feel guilty for not being offended on my behalf about things they haven't seen.
Okay Icepick, with good will, I will reach out and explain this - man to man, nonpatronizingly.
IMO nobody can make you feel guilty - if you feel guilty that's on you. That's what accepting personal responsiblity for yourself is all about from where I stand.
I certainly idn't say anyone who wasn't there should have said or done anything.
All I said was if someone was there I would have appreciated them having the decency to stand up and say "this is in bad taste." Or "yuck" or something.
If someone was there and they feel guilty because of what I just said, too freaking bad. That's not on me. That's their personal responsibility for feeling the way they do.
Conflict attracts interest. I see nothing wrong with insulting people as long as it's done with sufficient malice and wit.
Yeah, sez you. You've never had Trooper York compare you unfavorably to Vanilla Ice. I'm getting all teary just thinking about it....
I believe I have identified it: jealousy.
Jealousy or envy?
Lee: Insults swallowed - none. Enemies - none.
Chris Adams: No enemies?
Lee: ...alive...
Chris Adams: Well lets talk about that swallowing again.
(The Magnificent Seven, 1960)
Snide insults while posing as reasonable. It's the hypocrisy I find objectionable.
And Marshal, I never said I would NEVER insult someone, or that nobody should EVER insult anyone or me. Never. Ever.
Try to figure this stuff out on your own, will you? It requires thinking carefully, I agree, but you should have had a clue by now.
Eileen Lurker said...
Ritmo!!!
What do I win?
July 18, 2013 at 3:41 PM
****
LOL!
El Pollo linked to an inspiration for the William F. Bucko bit--and there was Ritmo calling himself--
"Rhythm and Balls"
lmao
Trooper reminds me of my little brother; devastatingly accurate insults, and both are good guys.
Freems sets another puzzle...will you tell us if we guess your guess? I mean if our guess matches your guess?
Icepick, I adore Razib. Need to read his blog; I've mainly seen him on Bloggingheads.
Some of you conservatives should understand personal responsibility better. It's the foundation of your philosophy. And it's one of the things that I admire more about your side frankly.
Shame if you don't understand it.
Yule Brenner went down on Mexico? He was gay?
Does Mexico anthropomorphize as a man? Hmm, Hetalia is no help, apparently there aren't any country-characters in North America other than Canada (male), America (male) and Cuba (male). Huh, that's odd, Europe's full of small feminized countries...
I remember someone, I forget who, reporting some casual comment of mine back to Trooper a while ago. We had a good exchange and I had no ulterior or underlying motives, just making a joke, if I remember. But whoever had to go and whisper to Trooper, "Paddy is causing you grief," that's a Loki-like innocence that dances in the drama.
Wadda'ya do? Accuse him of being a SOX fan?
Not Ritmo. I had a flash of MamaM a few minutes ago, but didn't think she'd have the patience to mess.
Icepick said...
How about: I have a responsibility to not attempt to make others feel guilty for not being offended on my behalf about things they haven't seen.
Icepick- I think you had a good point with regards to phx when you started. At this point, you are getting obnoxious. Think about what you are writing. Will it do any good, either with phx or anyone else? Will it do any harm, either with phx or anyone else?
Just something to consider.
Yule Brenner?
What the fuck?
Just trying to see who is paying attention.
Freems sets another puzzle...will you tell us if we guess your guess? I mean if our guess matches your guess?
***********
That would be one way to put the kabosh on it.
Some of you conservatives should understand personal responsibility better. It's the foundation of your philosophy. And it's one of the things that I admire more about your side frankly.
Shame if you don't understand it.
I was with you until you turned into a sanctimonious scold doing the forefinger rub and chanting shame shame shame at us.
Yabut, I want to know what Freeman came up with!
"Yule Brenner is the bald guy that climbs down your chimney on Christmas day. Yul Brynner is the Siamese,Egyptian,Mexican,Russian bald guy that died from smoking."
Oh so he's the guy who only comes once a year and that's down a chimney. What a relief.
I love "The Magnificent Seven" and I don't want to be watching it for any gay subtext.
Next thing you know you are going to tell me that "Johnny Guitar" has something to do with fish tacos or something. Jeez.
Obviously it could be Mary.
Another point is that, cliche though it be, ignoring really DOES work.
Precisely. These insults phx is whining about came from Jay? Seriously? I don't understand how anyone would bother reading those comments at all. I also don't understand how anyone would take them to heart.
Theo, Palladian, Titus...anyone!
You, know, the King of Siam, who went down into Mexico after Moses parted the Rio Grande.
Heheh.
So all it took for phx to turn nasty was asking that standards be upheld by both left and right.
Amazing.
That's too bad, phx, because he actually just made a point worth taking.
That's alright. I don't particularly care for him either. But this is a new site and I'm going to have to develop new filters. I plan on ignoring him as well. (He'll go into the fmg pile with the red bird and shiloh and whatever other riff-raff shows up.)
In the end, everyone will be happier for it.
So all it took for phx to turn nasty was asking that standards be upheld by both left and right.
Sanctimonious /= Nasty
I want to become a sanctimonious scold myself.
Is there a simple reference guide?
I need to expand beyond self-satisfied but washed up middle-aged wanker.
If it involves tattoos, chiropractic, or actually talking to live people, i'm out.
I'm responsible for my standards. You're responsible for your standards. You've never understood this simple message, Marshal.
But I'll argue with good will with grownups of average-to-better intelligence".
Oh so now I'm not good enough to talk to? We have standards and litmus tests now. You know, an IQ of 89 is average in some places, and even above average in a few, so don't you judge me, you moonbat. I cut your grass, and clean you pool, and your wife is staring at me like I'm a bacon-wrapped twinkie, so mind your manners.
July 18, 2013 at 4:07 PM
Freeman Hunt said...
Heh. I'm pretty sure I know who fiona is, and I figured it out a long time ago.
If you're thinking the "contrary one," you need to explain the tag teaming with Meade from the get-go.
"Guess my name Rapunzel!"
Well sure. A white guy who tries to be a rapper has no shame. Right Ice, Ice Baby!
bagoh20 you too smart by half. You're also funnier than I am. Sometimes anyway.
And I'm usually the funniest person on here...er, Althouse...was.
@ Pogo
You have to hold your mouth in a certain way. Think Dana Carvey as the Church Lady.
It is always curious when someone complains "You called me X" when no one else remembers him being called X and this is the first time hearing about it. And then he goes on and on
"You called me X"
"You called me X"
"You called me X"
"You called me X"
After a while, from all of these accusations being pointed directly back at himself, you begin to wonder if maybe there is some truth to it.
Oh, yeah.
Is it ....SATAN??
I hate when I fix a typo and make the whole comment worse, by dropping the html, and adding a new typo. Still it's not because of my IQ, which is among the highest in animal kingdom.
deborah said...
Yabut, I want to know what Freeman came up with!
July 18, 2013 at 4:00 PM
************
Ya--I agree--I guess I should translate--
"Put the kabosh on it" as "out with it."
Ha.
Anyhoo Chip Ahoy has a fresh thread and a kind of eery subject.
Al Czervik: Last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it.
(Caddyshack, 1980)
Yes, Eileen, I agree. Perhaps phx missed it because it was prefaced the "you goons...", but definitely a valid point.
What, I didn't write "you leftist goons"? That's what I get for being in a hurry.
Pogo said...
Oh, yeah.
Is it ....SATAN??
July 18, 2013 at 4:11 PM
*************
I know you are probably one of those guys that hates LMAO..
But ^ pffffttttt.
"Pogo said...
Oh, yeah.
Is it ....SATAN??"
Wait are we still guessing who that Fiona chick is?
I thought it was Shrek's girlfriend.
Eileen Lurker said...
So is fiona some kind of "comments mother" here or something, so that when she speaks we all must listen, and when she snaps her fingers we obey?
Look, fiona, I mean no disrespect, but your attempts to boss everyone around here seem oddly out of place. You could be 100% right in everything you say, and still I would find your comment style kind of icky.
Fiona or this is what this particular entity is calling herself is attempting to manipulate the conversations. If you can't see it, then you can't be helped. You can feel the resistance coming off of what it is saying and trying to use me as the foil for it. Hopefully people won't fall for its particular brand of psychological manipulation for I suspect it has been doing it for a long time and getting away with it.
Chris: Do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? By the way did you ever see a grown man naked?
Uh, I don't remember that.
The problem over at the crash site was with people, quite often the blogger herself, who would start with the attacks and insults, often in a passive-aggressive way, or in some way where someone would insist that she really could not be serious, she is just being provocative to stimulate the discussion, and then she would whine and cry when people would actually take exception and fire back, usually quite vehemently.
A good part of that is, I believe, that many leftists do not even recognize how hate-filled and contemptuous they are of other people. They can say the most repugnant things and it never occurs to them that people might object.
And truth be told, the leftist never stopped being a lefty, even after she recognized the intellectual bankruptcy of the left, because her contempt and animosity for people of the right has always been paramount.
Yes, conservatives over there could get quite harsh, but they were usually counter-attacks, not first strikes.
Icepick, I adore Razib. Need to read his blog; I've mainly seen him on Bloggingheads.
He's hardcore. He scares me!
Gotcha, Mads.
One more thing...when rh's vid went up, fiona was congratulatory on the choice of 'contributor.' Sincerely, I assumed, but maybe not.
IMHO (and sorry to egg this on), he/she could be one of three Althouse regulars. Either way, if I hadn't lost my iPhone, I'd chirbit voice cast her as Mercedes MccCambrige in"The Exorcist."
Our bully has returned. Now I must revert back to being a scold. I'm on it, don't any of you worry.
Glad you survived and all are well, Pollo!
They call that the Eddie Curry play.
You know currying favor while molesting the Limo guy.
Ugh. Still working on the filters. It takes time.
Some of you conservatives should understand personal responsibility better. It's the foundation of your philosophy. And it's one of the things that I admire more about your side frankly.
Shame if you don't understand it.
So, I need to be responsible for comments I didn't even read? (I skipped comments by Jay like they were snukes.) Please. At least this isn't as ridiculous as your earlier comparisons between bombings and internet manners....
Thanks Pogo! We'll live to sail another day. If you still have a pass to TY, there's a full account over there.
I don't know libs looks to a member of the majority here...but here's how cons look to a member of the minority. If you don't have at least a small sense of humor you should at least have some occasional good will. If you're a con without humor or amicability, you're a real PITA.
Now you can tell me the problems with libs.
bagoh20 said...
This room smells like Inga, and I should know. My Doberman is wearing her panties as we speak.
I hope you guys realize that if she actually sent me them, you would never hear of it. Or maybe that's just what I would say to cover it up.
EWW, EWW, and FUCKING EWW!!!
I rebuke thee Methadras, get out in the name of all that is holy!
@ madawaskan
I'm being a bit thick, but I missed your message in that reply!
Pardon the interruption, but I have one little comment to post here, found in an Althouse thread:
Chip S. said...
And I will say that I don't think phx is a pedophile.
6/3/13, 8:32 PM
Ciao, phx.
Regarding the policing of Althouse comments, I had another thought. Yes, there was vituperation. But shortly after I started reading the blog Ann adopted this policy of deleting what she deemed as 'clutter'.
To be honest, I think that helped Godwin the threads much faster because commenters felt they had to be brutally on point or else their comment would get zapped. In the process, I think the comment threads became colder because saying hi or some other non sequitur wasn't really condoned in the 'no-clutter' policy.
One thing that lends a more relaxed air to the threads here at Lem & Co. is that commenters are free to use pleasantries. Makes for a more comfortable starting point and wards off the vituperation. Ann's threads became more lecture hall/classroom sessions, whereas this blog is more of a comfortable lounge.
My dos pesos.
Think about what you are writing. Will it do any good.....
It's the internet. It won't do a damned thing except fill up servers at the NSA and Google.
At least this isn't as ridiculous as your earlier comparisons between bombings and internet manners....
I could repair the analogy to make it more apt so then perhaps even you could see how stupid your idea of "equal standards" really is.
ChipS!~
"If you still have a pass to TY"
I missed the cut-off.
Always a day late and a dullard short.
You really went out on a limb there, Chip S.
Lem, Meth, Edutcher, Madawaskan, Haz, Mitch, Mitchell, Jimi, & Hendrix: Thanks for the well wishes.
deborah too!
But yes, thanks to Chip S for saying the decent thing. I always had an interesting relationship with him that's not entirely negative.
We've been bitter but I'm okay with you Chip S.
Methadras
A certain psychological type will never "see" it.
You'll end up feeling like you are the crazy one.
There is a group dynamic entre NPD, sycophants and les autres.
The sycophants will allow themselves to be used to make the others feel--other if you get that.
There's some discussion that is a sin which I resist because I think they are benign and unconscious of it.
Then there is a personality that is moon to sun--I really can't explain it better right now but they are told they sparkle more and they can't believe anything bad about the sun that shines on them.
I'm out.
FWIW--I'm moving away from the benign interpretation.
I hate when I fix a typo and make the whole comment worse, by dropping the html, and adding a new typo. Still it's not because of my IQ, which is among the highest in animal kingdom.
Wow, that was subtle! I salute you, you magnificent, bacon-wrapped Twinkie!
Bender said...
And truth be told, the leftist never stopped being a lefty, even after she recognized the intellectual bankruptcy of the left, because her contempt and animosity for people of the right has always been paramount.
I don't want to make it seem like I disliked Althouse. In addition to integrity being an outstanding virtue in itself the left is so intellectually bankrupt an honest lefty is effectively an ally to the right (except on a small number of issues). But it was always clear she held the vast majority of her right-commentariat in disdain - and not just for the nastiness.
It made the commenting blowup hard for me to understand. But it was tremendously amusing when left-leaning blogs and media referred to her and her blog as conservative. There's nothing that proves you are insanely left as much as claiming a firm liberal is a conservative. Or, of course, that you're simply clueless.
El Pollo Raylan said...
Lem, Meth, Edutcher, Madawaskan, Haz, Mitch, Mitchell, Jimi, & Hendrix: Thanks for the well wishes.
July 18, 2013 at 4:25 PM
Copy that.
I'm off because I've left something goofy on a thread yet again.
"I was attempting to buzz out a funny."
I was delighting in the irony, nothing more serious than that.
I for one don't mind anything that keeps people talking about how to have civil conversations even on the internest.
Lem, Meth, Edutcher, Madawaskan, Haz, Mitch, Mitchell, Jimi, & Hendrix: Thanks for the well wishes.
What, you didn't appreciate the Gilligan's Island reference? :)
Pollo, glad to see you around.
That must have been a pretty frustrating/scary experience. I took sailing lessons for a number of years and while it never happened to me, I was around when it did to others. Hope everyone got back free from physical or psychological harm.
The thing about the discrepant personality is that it always demands an overwhelming amount of attention. That's the point—it's narcissistic in effect if not in fact.
I'm standing at the bar discussing a topic, probably politics or religion (in fact, I would never do this) with some guy I have a nodding acquaintance with, when said fellow responds to my last point with. "oh one of those people." Now, by the time the word "those" had left his condescending little mouth, said fellow's head would be bouncing off the bar. If he was lucky.
Now what the online equivalent of bouncing a head on the bar is, I'm not sure. But it just may be calling someone a pedophile.
Another point is that, cliche though it be, ignoring really DOES work.
Precisely. These insults phx is whining about came from Jay? Seriously? I don't understand how anyone would bother reading those comments at all. I also don't understand how anyone would take them to heart.
Wait, all this whining is over something that "Jay" wrote?! LOL. Who bothers to read "Jay"?! A few bouts of his lame fag-bashing and one set of
HA HA HA
HA HA HA
HA HA HA
and he was forever assigned "scroll-by" status.
Man up, phx.
There gots to be more than ten rules of the internets.
I mean, I can think of ten that just involve fragrant oils.
phx said...
Now you can tell me the problems with libs.
Sorry, the internet does not have enough bandwidth to accommodate that request. I'd suggest we wait a few years for the internet to catch up, but I'm pretty sure the problems with libs are growing at a faster rate.
Trooper York said...
Yule Brenner?
What the fuck?
So let it be written, so let it be done. Bad-assitude.
If fiona is who I think it is, it's someone I like and who, I'm sure, means well even if I'm not on board with the method. Not anyone affiliated with Althouse. I think that's the point that matters. People are wary of being talked to that way by someone affiliated with her. If people can be assured it isn't Althouse or Meade or anyone closely linked to them, surely fiona's presence cannot be so bothersome. Just another voice in the rec room.
and he was forever assigned "scroll-by" status.
Man up, phx.
Yes, I must say that most of the "not standing up against" isn't "not standing up against;" it's "not reading or thinking worthwhile to address."
Sorry icepick. You too.
Paddy O, thanks. I'm not an experienced sailor by any means and am more comfortable in it than on it.
My daughter laughed about it afterwards as a coping mechanism. There were some amusing aspects: I only salvaged one flip-flop and everyone else's floated away. There was a banana floating forlornly in the flotsam which didn't get rescued and a seagull was already pecking at a floating half-eaten subway sandwich as we waited.
I don't want to make it seem like I disliked Althouse.
I don't think that many people did (or do). Much of the push-back was not insults or attacks because of personal dislike, but because for a long time people actually thought that if they noted their disagreement and presented their position, that she might actually be persuadable. More and more it became clear that she still clings tightly to her ideology.
Same could be said for some of those commenters from the left -- even with the enraged and bigoted Andy the Hat, not many actually disliked him, but just thought what he said was not only wrong, but too often offensive.
Well, fionamcfiddlefaddle got VERY personal toward me, Freem. Out of the blue. I found it bothersome. But today, having taken Eileen's advice, I prayed for her and we're all good on this end.
Well, fionamcfiddlefaddle got VERY personal toward me, Freem.
Oh, that's right. I had forgotten about that. That wasn't very nice. Hopefully there won't be any more of that.
Darcy, of the preying hands. Sees the bugs tearing off other's heads and stands by to say how grateful she is wasn't hers. If recall she actually stated she liked someone named Sixty Grit who has been every bit as vicious as Mary. Why would someone feel they must intercede on the behalf of a vicious bully?
fionamcgee said...
I rebuke thee Methadras, get out in the name of all that is holy!
Hmmm, this coming from the devil itself? High praise indeed.
Darcy's great, so fiona breeds ignore from my CPU.
And Freenman's right about missing the namecalling because no one read that poster's shit usually.
But I read the pedophile one, IIRC, and thought it a pretty evil thing to say.
Ignore is best.
"Man up, phx."
You dirty S.O.B.. How dare you take away a man's victimhood so cavalierly, which I think means while riding a horse, wearing a sash.
The guy needs that, like a blankie. This is the kind of cruelty we just don't need to put up with around here! It's a new day.
I'm feeling all special again. Group hugs.
Pogo email me at trooperyork@hotmail.com and I will send you an invite to join the Trooper York blog.
I would also like to extend invitations to madawaskan, bagho20,Marshall and Eileen Lurker to join as well.
Most everyone else is already a member.
Hi Pogo! Thank you.
Sorry icepick. You too.
No problem. Besides, I screwed it up. I should have linked to some of Trooper's stuff. Wait, that's a dead end for many people anyway.
There's another rule of the internet: Don't link to restricted stuff.
And thank you too, Freeman.
I cannot respect such a person. I have trouble speaking respectfully to those who watch abuse and say nothing. Althouse had a similar response to bullies, she was cruely neutral, until it was her that was unmercifully bullied, if I recall.
Besides, you've got to wonder which member of the crew I think you are. Since I'm being more of an asshole than usual today....
Darcy- please stop by and bully me. Please.
The "pedophile" thing did happen. I saw it. It was repeated, it was stupid, and it should have been ignored or deleted. I'd ban someone who did that. Not the pedophile - the commenter who said it.
Trooper, I emailed you twice, and got nothing. My pillow is soaked now.
How respectful is it to buzz "Fuck You!" to someone Darcy? Did you forget that? How respectful is it to refer to me as fionamcgriddle, fionamccrabapple and the other variations? How easily you reveal your hypocrisy.
Really. Let me check it out buddy. You sure you did trooperyork@hotmail.com?
El Pollo Raylan said...
Lem, Meth, Edutcher, Madawaskan, Haz, Mitch, Mitchell, Jimi, & Hendrix: Thanks for the well wishes.
Anytime dude. Just glad you are all safe. Quick story. I was in Maui years ago and my wife and I went snorkeling and she just feel in love with the Hawaiian Sea Turtles that would come up to this particular rock just below the breakers on this particular beach of the hotel we stayed at in McKenna. Loved the place. Well, I didn't see it, but I ended up stepping on a Sea Urchin and spent the better part of a couple of hours getting the spines pulled out. It felt worse than it looked. Anyway, much to my dismay I hadn't realized that my wife hadn't come back, so I got worried pretty quick. She became so enthralled by this Sea Turtle that she was following him out to sea. Where we were you didn't have to go out very far to get swept up in the currents and sent out to sea. But no one had seen her. So I grabbed my fins and goggles and headed out there. Well, I got lucky and barely saw the top of her snorkel bobbing in the water. She was at least a quarter mile out and I freaked. I swam after her and it took me quite a while, but I finally caught up to her, but when when we both looked back at our distance from the beach, she started to panic. Luckily I told one of the attendants on the beach to have a jet ski ready when he saw my signal and he was out there in 5 minutes.
Those currents are hidden and freaky. I kind of gave her a little talking to about being careful, and she looked at me like a 6 year old and said, "But I love that turtle and we were having so much fun..." that innocence melted me, so I lost my heart to be mad at her for it. A couple of weeks later on the flight back home, we were talking and she kinda got teary eyes for a second and she said, "I could have really been swept out to sea huh?" and I just looked at her and nodded. She shook her head and and kinda chuckled and said, "wow, what an adventure."
There was a banana floating forlornly in the flotsam which didn't get rescued and a seagull was already pecking at a floating half-eaten subway sandwich as we waited.
Titus bait if ever there was any....
Maybe that's the problem. I thought it was at "hotmale.com"
Actually, it was fuck off, but that's neither here nor there - we've group hugged. Let's move on?
I'm off for a beer or two. Cheers, all. :)
No that's Palladian's email.
When I was 8 I woke up in the morning completely under my bedsheets, and I could not find my way out!
I started to panic. But I methodically traced the edge seam and was soon free.
Srsly, that's my most exciting story.
Bender said...
I don't think that many people did [dislike Althouse].
I think you're largely correct but some of the things said to her and Meade shocked me. It was a small number of people, but still. I'm not talking about position criticism but personal insults of a type I did not remember ever seeing before even from the banned person. I didn't say anything because she's the one with the bully pulpit (and used it regularly), so who was I to object?
Same could be said for some of those commenters from the left -- even with the enraged and bigoted Andy the Hat, not many actually disliked him, but just thought what he said was not only wrong, but too often offensive.
That's their poor judgment. People intentionally rude to everyone deserve to be disliked.
bagoh20 said...
Trooper, I emailed you twice, and got nothing. My pillow is soaked now.
That is just wrong. WRONG I SAY!!!
I'd ban someone who did that. Not the pedophile - the commenter who said it.
Hahahahaha! Good one bagoh20! You just got that subtle intelligence thing going.
Nothing like humor, intelligence and good character.
Srsly, that's my most exciting story.
You've led a good life, as far as I'm concerned!
Man, Methadras' story freaked me out.
In scariness, number one, like looking up at a park and not seeing your little kid nearby.
And two, realizing that the bulk of my adventures have been entirely cognitive.
I need to go kill a giant bear or run the rapids nekkid or sumpin.
Pogo said...
Man, Methadras' story freaked me out.
In scariness, number one, like looking up at a park and not seeing your little kid nearby.
A couple of weeks ago I lost my 6 year old at the beach for something like 20 minutes. The first ten minutes weren't too bad, the second ten I thought I might have a stroke.
Never told my wife.
@Marshal
That's love, tearing you apart.
(See Joy Division)
I hope I haven't told you kiddies this before, but similar to Methadras's story, I was on one of those snorkeling cruises in Hawaii, which is an awesome thing to do by the way, just beautiful and amazing.
Even though the captain told us not to mess with them, some guy put his hand in a hole where a Moray Eel was chillin, and watching Squidbillies on Adult Swim, like they do. Of course it grabbed his hand and by the time it let go the water was full of blood. About 30 people panicking to get the hell back on that boat ASAP. It was pandemonium!
Me and my friend just floated away until it thinned out some. We were pretty scared too to be in the blood, blood in water, sharks in the water (Farewell and adieu to you, Spanish Ladies...), but we were more afraid of those crawling panicked humans. Anyway nobody else got hurt, and the booze was flowing on the way back in. Another day in paradise. Moral: Don't snorkel when Squidbillies is on the tube.
Something about the way the site is formatted and my iPhone do not agree. Is anyone else experiencing weird things with their phones on this page?
Scary ocean story, since we seem to be sharing.
We were in Acapulco, at the morning beach, I'm about 5 years old (I think this is a family story). We are swimming in the rather placid waters. The Morning beach is where you went....duh...in the morning as opposed to the Afternoon beach which had much nicer waves due to the long gradual sloping of the ground out to the ocean. Better waves for body surfing and regular surfing.
In the 1940s, Acapulco had a Morning Beach (Caleta) and an Afternoon Beach (Hornos), so named because that was how Olympic Gold Medalist swimmer and national hero Apolonio Castilo divided his training regimen.
Sooooo. Here come about 6 or so snakes swimming in across the water right past me. I'm not afraid of snakes and thought is was pretty cool. Everyone, my parents and aunt and her boyfriend. (Alberto ‘Chivo’ Cordova here is a video of him He was my godfather) were freaking out and trying to get me to come to shore and trying to get to me. Chivo swam out and got me. Evidently the snakes were quite poisonous.
I was oblivious to everyone's panic.
Maybe a daily or nightly no-holds-barred smack-fight post would work to give those who revel in insults and attacks a place to vent.
Except for a stab or two at garage (easy pickins) and a few attempts at semi-humorous needles poked at Althouse herself, I think I mostly avoided that sort of stuff.
But I might enjoy dropping my manners temporarily for a little give and take if it was walled off from the general discussions.
Other commenters or admins could tell the fighters to take it there or STFU.
Yeah, I think I would like that.
Cool, we're doing scary ocean stories. I've got a doozie.
So I'm swimming in the surf off the coast of North Carolina on vacation, and up swims phx. And he's high on methamphetamines and amyl nitrate. And he swims right up to me and asks if I've ever played "Put the Eel in the Cave".
We kid because we love you, phx. And for the record, phx has never explicitly propositioned me.
Explicitly.
I believe that whatever fucked up the AA comments section must have gone on in one of those hideously long politico-cultural gay marriage posts that I never had the patience to scroll through. Anything longer than 200 comments, I couldn't be bothered with. Not because there might be something interesting in there, but by the time I ran across it, there was already a hundred comments of Meth and Inga or two somebody elses pissing all over each others' shoeleather. I've never been able to understand that back-and-forth-and-back-and-forth. It just seems like too much emotional work to invest in that sort of thing.
Anyways, let's hear it for Powers Gold Label - nectar of the fucking gods!
Rabels idea is in the hopper.
Rabels idea is really good.
The Daily FU, I like it. It will be just like reading Trooper's blog!
Mitch H. said...
I believe that whatever fucked up the AA comments section must have gone on in one of those hideously long politico-cultural gay marriage posts that I never had the patience to scroll through. Anything longer than 200 comments, I couldn't be bothered with.
No, there hadn't been a same sex marriage post for days.
She just kept snapping at people and then closed it down.
Sad.
Rabels idea is really good.
What could be finer than going back to the Althouse smack down atmosphere? Do you think bad feelings would be contained to those 'isolated threads?' They would infect the comraderie in the rest of this blog that you're trying to bring about.
Boosh!
A little premature there, bago.
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