Donald--I generally hesitate to speak for others but I feel safe in making the following claim: the vast majority of any ill-will you are seeing directed at the Meadhouse entity has very little to do with any lingering resentment regarding our eviction from her site and very much to do with Meade's unmannerly, aggressive, insulting and manipulative behavior at THIS site. A lot of that nonsense has been buried in long threads and you may have missed it.
Back in 1908 the Times (UK) asked several writers:
What's wrong with the world?
The Times received the usual big-think pieces you get when you ask smart people interesting, open-ended questions, but there was one notable exception from Christian writer, G.K. Chesteron:
Dear Sirs,
I am.
Sincerely yours, G.K. Chesterton
I love that.
There's something to Lem's heartfelt concern earlier. We are all responsible for the world as it is.
But you can go too far with that approach as my mother's confessor, Fr. Donnelly, would say and warn her of "scrupulosity."
I hear what you are saying. I'm not trying to excuse Meade's conduct here, which I would agree has often been indistinguishable from the commenters he has responded to.
I am saying that I think Meade is better than that. If you look at it from his perspective, he is defending the most important person in his life from some very vicious and personal attacks. And there is no denying that - the comment threads are full of them. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it understandable.
Some of those are probably just bad people saying bad things. But I think a lot of it is people lashing out because they are angry and hurt, and that has generated a similar kind of response from A&M. I've been a silent part of the Althouse community for a long time. Meade has always come off to me as a smart, witty, and good natured fellow. And I would say the same thing of a lot of the commenters. That is precisely why I enjoyed the commenting community at Althouse and why it pains me to see where this has gone and where it is heading (or perhaps has already headed).
People say things they don't mean. And Meade, as well as the Althouse commenters, are people. If reconciliation is going to happen (and I put aside, here, the question of re-opening comments -- I am talking about reconciliation of relationships), people have to realize this -- and begin to say and do things that heal rather than saying and doing things that hurt (often because they are feeling hurt). D.GOOCH
Fen, apologies are not something you do for other people. Apologies are a gift to yourself. Apologies are freedom. Freedom from resentment, anger, and exhausting self-righteousness.
There is nothing quite so ridiculous as a forced apology. What would it mean?
Again, I'm not trying to go all Depak on you here. I don't think A&M are free and clear of any blame. In fact, I've said the opposite. If for nothing else, they are guilty of handling this situation badly. They might even admit that in a moment of candor.
But there isn't red in only one side of the ledger here. There's plenty of blame to go around. Acknowledging that, which I believe is precisely what Lem was doing, is a good first step to putting that in the rear view mirror.
I have harbored a lot of resentments in my life. Indulged righteous indignation and asserted the moral high-ground. Indicted people in my life for their horrible choices and accused them of shameful character flaws that lead to them doing me harm.
And I have never once regretted letting that go, showing some humility, and acknowledging my own part in those bad situations and my understanding that their actions, however hurtful, were not the deep-black motivations I had ascribed to them. It was, instead, in every one of those situations, a wonderful relief. Even when it was not reciprocated. D.GOOCH
Donald Gooch ... you certainly seem to paint "commenters" with a wide brush of condemnation. This board is doing fine, with representative contributions, worthwhile ones, and an acknowledged new way of looking at comments. No spite pops up until usual suspects pop up spiteful. Do you wonder why that might be?
One more thing...probably just me again, oddball that I am:
What is this vague resentment hurt, and angst I am supposed to "lash out" about? At least if I fit the model you've contrived for the "bad commenters?" I have lashed out at egregious remarks here, made by someone from TOP for example, but show me where I've said anything venal about Althouse per se. How can I resent her taking what is hers to do with as she pleases? I wrote to Ann, saying I thought it was a mistake, etc., and she posted my remark, herself, on the earlier thread with 3 or 4 others, not the longer "why" thread.
Enough with the arm chair psychoanalysis. Shit happens, It did. We move on. Somebody visits to disparage here, some of us get angry.n shit happens, We move on. It has nothing what-so-ever to do with TOP per se. That's done.
222 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 222 of 222It's so good to see Lem refusing to be a beta male.
That you use that analogy just shows that you have failed to remember that A&M are human. They are not monsters.
Donald--I generally hesitate to speak for others but I feel safe in making the following claim: the vast majority of any ill-will you are seeing directed at the Meadhouse entity has very little to do with any lingering resentment regarding our eviction from her site and very much to do with Meade's unmannerly, aggressive, insulting and manipulative behavior at THIS site. A lot of that nonsense has been buried in long threads and you may have missed it.
Ditto what Misplaced Pants said.
Back in 1908 the Times (UK) asked several writers:
What's wrong with the world?
The Times received the usual big-think pieces you get when you ask smart people interesting, open-ended questions, but there was one notable exception from Christian writer, G.K. Chesteron:
Dear Sirs,
I am.
Sincerely yours,
G.K. Chesterton
I love that.
There's something to Lem's heartfelt concern earlier. We are all responsible for the world as it is.
But you can go too far with that approach as my mother's confessor, Fr. Donnelly, would say and warn her of "scrupulosity."
There's a word we don't hear much these days.
Lem: Thanks for the Open Thread.
I think Methadras and I have a new seeking forgiveness policy. My Bad Park and all that...
No one says that anymore, A dog.
No one says that anymore, A dog.
Who is no one? Where might that "no one" be? Discuss. Or whatever.
"Who is no one?"
By no one I mean no one who reads above a third grade level or who isn't a guest on Oprah.
By no one I mean no one who reads above a third grade level or who isn't a guest on Oprah.
Why bless your heart. You mean lily white academics in Madison, Wisconsin, that hotbed of diversity.
That's good! You gonna be here all week?
"That you use that analogy just shows that you have failed to remember that..."
Suck harder.
There's really no need to over-analyze this. Its not like the fricken Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact fell apart or something. Geez.
Ann Althouse & Meade Althouse behaved like douchebags. They need to apologize if they expect people to move on. Its that simple.
IHMMP,
I hear what you are saying. I'm not trying to excuse Meade's conduct here, which I would agree has often been indistinguishable from the commenters he has responded to.
I am saying that I think Meade is better than that. If you look at it from his perspective, he is defending the most important person in his life from some very vicious and personal attacks. And there is no denying that - the comment threads are full of them. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it understandable.
Some of those are probably just bad people saying bad things. But I think a lot of it is people lashing out because they are angry and hurt, and that has generated a similar kind of response from A&M. I've been a silent part of the Althouse community for a long time. Meade has always come off to me as a smart, witty, and good natured fellow. And I would say the same thing of a lot of the commenters. That is precisely why I enjoyed the commenting community at Althouse and why it pains me to see where this has gone and where it is heading (or perhaps has already headed).
People say things they don't mean. And Meade, as well as the Althouse commenters, are people. If reconciliation is going to happen (and I put aside, here, the question of re-opening comments -- I am talking about reconciliation of relationships), people have to realize this -- and begin to say and do things that heal rather than saying and doing things that hurt (often because they are feeling hurt). D.GOOCH
Fen, apologies are not something you do for other people. Apologies are a gift to yourself. Apologies are freedom. Freedom from resentment, anger, and exhausting self-righteousness.
There is nothing quite so ridiculous as a forced apology. What would it mean?
Again, I'm not trying to go all Depak on you here. I don't think A&M are free and clear of any blame. In fact, I've said the opposite. If for nothing else, they are guilty of handling this situation badly. They might even admit that in a moment of candor.
But there isn't red in only one side of the ledger here. There's plenty of blame to go around. Acknowledging that, which I believe is precisely what Lem was doing, is a good first step to putting that in the rear view mirror.
I have harbored a lot of resentments in my life. Indulged righteous indignation and asserted the moral high-ground. Indicted people in my life for their horrible choices and accused them of shameful character flaws that lead to them doing me harm.
And I have never once regretted letting that go, showing some humility, and acknowledging my own part in those bad situations and my understanding that their actions, however hurtful, were not the deep-black motivations I had ascribed to them. It was, instead, in every one of those situations, a wonderful relief. Even when it was not reciprocated. D.GOOCH
Donald Gooch ... you certainly seem to paint "commenters" with a wide brush of condemnation. This board is doing fine, with representative contributions, worthwhile ones, and an acknowledged new way of looking at comments. No spite pops up until usual suspects pop up spiteful. Do you wonder why that might be?
One more thing...probably just me again, oddball that I am:
What is this vague resentment hurt, and angst I am supposed to "lash out" about? At least if I fit the model you've contrived for the "bad commenters?" I have lashed out at egregious remarks here, made by someone from TOP for example, but show me where I've said anything venal about Althouse per se. How can I resent her taking what is hers to do with as she pleases? I wrote to Ann, saying I thought it was a mistake, etc., and she posted my remark, herself, on the earlier thread with 3 or 4 others, not the longer "why" thread.
Enough with the arm chair psychoanalysis. Shit happens, It did. We move on. Somebody visits to disparage here, some of us get angry.n shit happens, We move on. It has nothing what-so-ever to do with TOP per se. That's done.
“Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.”
Oscar Wilde
Inga, you're a beautiful person and I love you.
Not that way. The other way.
CEO, thanks ... I think.
You betcha.
Airdog, I don't "seem" to be doing anything of the sort. Mostly because...I didn't do anything of the sort. D.GOOCH
Inga - Bingo.
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