THE DEBATE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE: At Ricochet, Jon Gabriel looks back of a summer of Trumpian silliness and wistfully writes, “The 2016 election was the grand battle conservatives had been hoping for since Ronald Reagan left the Oval Office. The roster of candidates was to be a who’s-who of smart, proven, center-right leadership:”
We aren’t discussing America’s $18.4 trillion national debt and our insolvent social programs. The stagnant economy and an expansionist China, Russia, and Islamic State. Burning cities at home and burning countries abroad.
Instead we’re trading GIFs of a reality show star on “The Tonight Show,” giggling about menstruation, and wondering if the most impressive GOP field in a generation are a bunch of “dummies” or if they’re a bunch of “losers.”
These are serious times. We are not a serious people.
Well, the American people chose a reality show candidate in 2008 — the comic book superhero “Lightworker,” who could be seen on comic book covers and in the form of plastic action figure replicas, when not appearing on professional wrestling TV shows asking, “Do you smell what Barack’s cooking,” and who modestly pledged that by merely besting Hillary Clinton to win the Democrat nomination, “this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”
Of course voters want more of the same in 2016.
36 comments:
OT and BTW - not heard in the hack media: A cop killer had a photo of Obama in a cape on his facebook page.
Imagine if a cop killer had a photo of Sarah Palin?
That's what I've been saying, but at least Trump has done something besides just get elected. Obama never successfully managed anything before being elected President. Obama also had a history of being far left that was ignored. Trump has a center-left history, that supporters are ignoring. He's promising to spend lots of money, which he knows how to do. I don't think we need a more luxurious government. There is no conservatism in the man. I just hope he teaches the rest of the field that they don't have to apologize for being conservative or human.
You know who Trump reminds me of?
Andrew Jackson.
What Jon Gabriel and others like him don't get is that a very big part of the GOP base (and some centrist democrats) are so damn sick and tired of being lied to over and over again that they will not support ANY conventional politician.
The idolatry isn't there and you don't see those God-awful "Hitler is our Savior" videos with a bunch of kids.
People seem to be quite level-headed about him and what he might do.
BTW, if you go back far enough, The Donald's views in the Reagan-Bush years seemed to be a bit more Conservative. I'm wondering if this is a guy who tends to go with the prevailing winds (not the best thing) and, as we really aren't all Socialists now, may be inclined to shift Right.
YMMV
Trooper York said...
You know who Trump reminds me of?
Andrew Jackson.
Interesting.
That, of course can be a good or bad thing, but, yeah, maybe a President for the Common Man is what we need.
Lord knows, he's no aristocrat, Tidewater or otherwise.
What Haz said.
Trump throws sand in the media gearbox. If he can keep that up for four years, the soap opera narrative news will be over.
There's your recovery.
Obama also got elected because he was so unlike other politicians of the past - at least he talked like it. He seemed to be someone who would do things differently. Just go back and watch his campaign speeches. He promised all kinds of new ideas that were anti-status quo. He lied about every single one.
The only way to judge a man with any confidence is by his history. Bankruptcy is a broken promise - a serious one, and Trump is a serial offender. What I hear him saying is that he will spend lots of money on stuff. That I believe. It's what he does. Just think about the speeches he gave investors in those projects that he later failed at and bailed out on. I bet they sounded very similar to what you are hearing from him now.
There are some very good people running: accomplished, smart, reasoned. It does not matter who someone says they are or what they say they will do. It matters who they actually are and they all have histories to compare.
I have no idea how Trump would perform as President, but his defenders, sound exactly like the Obama fanboys of the past. They don't care about who he might be or how unlikely his promises are. They just like the sound of it. Would you hire this man to manage and safeguard your valuable assets?
"the soap opera narrative news will be over."
I'd love that, but the narrative exists because it has an audience. That audience is not gonna suddenly gonna get serious. The people who run that media are good at it, and they won't be leaving either. Trump is one of them. He's a walking, talking soap opera. He's an insider in the unserious bullshit market. I'm in favor of what we think he's doing, but he's not really doing it.
No but I wouldn't hire any of these other mental midgets either. Sure Trump took full advantage of every loophole and every sleazy trick to get his way and make his dough. So what? That's business. I would much rather have him cheating and swindling the Iranians and the Russki's.
We need to blow it up. The Republican leadership can't even get a vote on the Iran deal with a majority in the Senate. They can't defund Planned Parenthood that is chopping up babies for parts. They can't do nuthin with a majority in the Congress. Who is going to change that? Marco Ricky Ricardo? Jeb Gonzalez Lopez Martinez Bush? Carly with the Laughing Face? Bobby Slurpee? Scott Cheeseball? Who is going to break the logjam?
Look Trump will do a bunch of messed up stuff. So what? If he just cracks down on immigration and swindles some of our enemies I will be happy. I have very low expectations.
Trump might be bad but he can't be worse.
You can't talk about honesty and decency anymore bags. That ship has sailed. You have to fight fire with fire. You think Hillary is honest and decent? You think the Democrats will stop at anything to win? Lying? Cheating? Stealing the Election? You want to elect someone of high morals and impeccable honor to the Presidency?
Get real. Set a thief to catch a thief.
Plus America is about to go bankrupt and nobody knows more about how to do that then Donald Trump.
Don't you want him to swindle the Chinamen that are holding our notes?
With all due respect (I don't believe I just wrote that) bags, Trump and his supporters (I'm one) are not comparable to the Obama phenomenon. Trump has identified several (not just the invasion) problems and will do much more than make speeches about them. He's helpless in that regard. Why? Because he's a doer, the most basic kind of doer, a builder. I fully expect him to renegotiate trade deals with China, Mexico, Japan, etc. I fully expect him to rebuild the military. I fully expect him to reorganize the Veterans Administration, by his own words the single most corrupt government department. And of course Trump will build a wall. I don't expect he'll do much about the horrible Obamacare because he shows no particular passion in that area. But the man's a dynamo and on the things he is passionate about he'll be active, very active. Ivanka for Veep!
"Sure Trump took full advantage of every loophole and every sleazy trick to get his way and make his dough. So what? That's business."
That's failed and corrupt business. What you are describing is exactly what you hate. It's Clintonian. In successful business, everyone wins except the competition. Promises are kept, commitments met. He had to use bankruptcy because he failed at what he promised to do. He made sure to keep himself whole at the expense of those he talked into the deal. That will be you, not China. He didn't damage his competition, he damaged his own investors. I'm just saying that if you use my criteria (his record), he will fail at these promises and he will leave us holding the bag. That's his M.O.
When he pushes single payer health care, tax hikes, and sweet deals for friends, you won't be too happy about him telling his detractors to fuck off. We have that exact kind of leader now. Obama's supporters don't like what they are getting either, and he keeps giving it to them anyway. The idea of Trump being the right wing's Obama is valid, except he's not even right wing.
Trump's boldness, is like Obama's Blackness. It makes some just not care about anything else. It will quickly wear out, and then what do you have? A center-left President who won't let things like the Press, public opinion, or the constitution get in his way. Sound familiar?
Character matters, unless we're winning?
Trump has a lot to prove. But he's got a lot of time to do that so we'll see.
One of things that Trump does so well is talk over the media. Made a mistake? Whatever! It's the best mistake! It's and Awesomely Yooooooge mistake, unlike the sad mistakes the rest of these deflated wallflowers make! Trump for Prezzie!! Yeah.
People hate the media and the constant obvious media manipulations and congratulating themselves on their manipulations, like being the fourth branch of the government is a Good Thing. So one way to NOT impress a potential voter is to try to "nudge" them to like Trump. It's obvious. Stop it.
The people supporting Trump don't think of him as a savior. We're not the same pathetic noodles as the Obama worshippers. We think he MIGHT make government slightly less unresponsive to all us benighted bitter clingers. That's all. There is no illusion about government as salvation or even as central to making or not making a good life, that's up to the individual, me, the great ricpic.
Bags I respect you as an honorable man. You have the highest ideals and sense of honor.
You know what? Most other businesses in fact a sizable majority do not. They do whatever they have to do to produce the bottom line. I constantly lament that I do not do what other disreputable in my business do. It would be smarter and a lot more profitable to do it the sleazy way. The Trump way. It ain't pretty but it is effective. Here we are eeking out a living and he is living large with a mansion and a yacht.
Look I know there is a lot of stuff he would do that I don't like. So what? The current crop of GOP losers will not do what I want either. Just like the current crop of GOP congressional losers with a majority in both houses won't do jack shit. And not pay a price. If Trump gets a handle on the border then it is enough for me. If he just makes the illegals who aren't here already afraid and stops the influx of terrorists from the Middle East then I will settle for that. If you think any of these other guys are even going to give us that then I think you are sadly mistaken. They are just going to give us another episode of failure theater.
Trump is not a failed businessman. How is that right? He makes deals left and right and leaves the other mooks holding the bag. Every year he has a bigger yacht and a bigger plane.
Wouldn't you want him to flim flam Putin and out deal the rug merchants from Iran? Why do I want someone like Jeb Jose Jimenez Bush be the guy at the table. I mean seriously?
Yachts are overrated. All boats are a pain in the pupick.
The two front runners are Trump and Carson, two men who could not be more different. And yet they have two important things in common.
First, each man is being himself. Trump is the loud showman; Carson is the quiet, studious, brilliant surgeon. The voters like both, nearly identically.
Second, neither man is a professional politician in a contest where Americans have started to fully hate politicians.
The other candidates, most of 'em, are still trying to invent who they are for this election. And that is the exact reason why they are falling behind. This isn't a marketing game; it's the future of the country that's at risk.
Side note: Notice that there is a black man running for POTUS. Now notice how the Democrats are not the least bit interested in that fact. Interesting, innit? Apparently having a black man as president isn't important anymore.
I think this the first time a black man and an orange man were the two top contenders.
Of course Trump can say that orange is the new black. Or something.
Out here in California, we have arrogant unflinching politicians. They're Democrats comfortable in their total domination at the ballot box. They push crazy shit that pisses people off and often hurts people or even denies them their rights. When attacked over it, they don't back down, they double down, and berate their critics with impunity. I enjoyed seeing it in a "Republican" for a change, but Trump's schtick has already worn off on me. I've seen it in power. If he was a conservative, I'd feel a lot better about it.
Hey I agree. If he does 10% conservative stuff I think we have to accept it and be happy. It is a hell of a lot more than Hillary or Jeb or Marco Rubio would do.
If he can just do what he says he is going to do with immigration I think we have to settle.
He might implode tonight. I don't think so but it is possible.
If the mooks on the stage can't take him out then they have no business running against the Democrats.
Listen to the conservative intelligentsia. Their big idea? Bring back Mitt. Fuck that nose. Fuck that with Carly Farina's face.
Who is going to change that? Marco Ricky Ricardo? Jeb Gonzalez Lopez Martinez Bush? Carly with the Laughing Face? Bobby Slurpee? Scott Cheeseball?
I love to makeup names for everyone, but no one does it as well as Troop.
Well done!
I call my latin friend Juanita Conchita Consequela Cookaracha.
I call her Juana for short.
Bags, you mean like this?
(California High School Exit Exam retroactively removed as a graduation requirement so now people who can't read at the 10th grade level or do 8th grade math can attend college.) No wonder we've got celebrity candidates winning elections.
President Camacho: Now I understand everyone's shit's emotional right now. But I've got a 3 point plan that's going to fix EVERYTHING.
Congressman #1: Break it down, Camacho!
President Camacho: Number 1: We've got this guy Not Sure. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING.
Idiocracy was a documentary.
I think any garden variety reality star would be a better President than most of the people running in the Republican primary.
I mean Carly Farina has the business acumen of Theresa Giudice.
Ben Carson has the soft spoken confidence of Nene Leakes.
Marco Rubio has the enthusiasm and judgment of Snookie.
And Chris Christie? Pick any of the dudes from the Jersey Shore.
Break it down, Camacho!
I don't like the idea of being stuck with the scary, unpredictable, embarrassing candidate in the general election. I think that's easy to beat considering our electorate. And, I think that's how Trump will end up looking to a lot of people by election time. People are entertained now, but fear will set in when it comes down to the wire.
Because, in the end, no matter how bad things are, We fear change.
Interesting conversation (esp. Bags). But respectfully, I don't see how Trump can be hailed as a great businessman when his industry doesn't have competition. His company IS him. What does Trump, the brand, do? It sells Trump. It sells him on buildings, on tie labels, on perfume bottles, on NBC, etc., etc., etc. What was funny was when I heard a re-run of FOX announcing the candidates and their occupations, for Trump it said a "real estate developer". Oh yeah. That's what he technically does, assuming you're thinking of an actual business. The rest of it, the majority of it, is just himself as a brand. A great brand (I suppose), but just a brand. He's the business world's equivalent of a cult of personality. And I don't hate Obama, but Bags is right: This guy is undoubtedly a narcissist who will make his politics a festival of the self.
There are other cults of personality in the world of big billionaire businessmen these days... but can you honestly say that Trump has done anything nearly as worthy of admiration in business (or any other field) as has Steve Jobs or Bill Gates? The guys at GOOGLE? Even Mark Cuban? Does he actually even have the discipline to really understand any actual industries (other than, we presume, real estate)? Does none of this really matter?
Whether you think the Obama campaign analogies are accurate, they certainly apply with this guy. As I heard it said before, the average joe loves him. But people who actually do really well in business, and I count Bags as one of them, know better. Bags' arguments are spot-on to me, but go a step further in giving you the angle that people in business really can see even that much better.
(Although Bags has my sympathies because I now have no idea which candidate if any would satisfy him at all).
Politics goes in cycles. Forty year-long cycles. For Republicans, this is the equivalent of what for the Democrats was the mid 1970s. The left wanted to keep going and keep pushing in ways it could no longer go. I suspect Republicans are now in the same position. But it does make for entertaining politics. Watching them come to certain realizations. I like how Trump says exactly what he wants to, even when he has no idea of the terrain. He makes the facts that work for him. A lot of average people, mostly Republican but not all, applaud. But there is a limit to where this can go. I think Republicans love it because they don't see it... they became so used to winning in the decades before the Obama years that they don't see how something might not be possible. How to come to terms with realities related to immigration, budgeting and the world of violent crazies that we don't need to go anywhere near. I like Troop, and at least he's being humble and technically putting limits on conservative expectations. Perhaps that's a first step, of sorts. As someone who's not much of a conservative, I'd be happy to grant them a win if Trump simply breaks ground on the anti-PC front and convinces people to accept the fact that there are more important things than people's feelings. Which is a heavily ironic accomplishment for a narcissist like Trump to make, but we don't have the luxury to question gifts such as these. He's right, the nation has more to worry about than what names he called Rosie O'Donnell and getting that point across, and accepted, was as much a cultural win for our nation as any. We can go much further from there. I'll take it.
You are right about cycles. The left cycle is over. One way or another.
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