Wednesday, November 13, 2013

Going to Iran


At RCP George Friedman of Stratfor recounts the reason we went to China (to counterbalance Soviet aggression), and why it is important we go to Iran.  Although they consider us the Great Satan who staged a 1953 coup against them, and we consider them religious extremists who have worked with other countries to thwart us, he brings home the point that pragmatism trumps ideology saying, "In the early days of the Islamic republic, whenever Tehran was confronted with  American interests, it would pull closer to the Soviet Union, an atheistic country...a counterweight to the United States and put ideology aside, even in its earliest, most radical days."

Concerning the recent breakdown in nuclear talks, he believes the actual goal of the talks will be restructuring the balance of power:
The real negotiations will come after the nuclear and sanctions issues are addressed. They will pertain to U.S.-Iranian relations more broadly. Each side will use the other to its advantage. The Iranians will use the United States to repair its economy, and the Americans will use the Iranians to create a balance of power with Sunni states. This will create indirect benefits for both sides. Iran's financial woes will be an opportunity for American companies to invest. The Americans' need for a balance of power will give Iran weight against its own enemies, even after the collapse of its strategy. 
The region will of course look different but not dramatically so. The balance of power idea does not mean a rupture with Saudi Arabia or Israel. The balance of power only works if the United States maintains strong relationships on all sides. The Saudis and Israelis will not like American rebalancing. Their choices in the matter are limited, but they can take comfort from the fact that a strictly pro-Iranian policy is impossible for the United States. The American strategy with China in the 1970s was to try to become the power that balanced the Soviet Union and China. After meeting with the Chinese, Henry Kissinger went to Moscow. Thus, in terms of bilateral relationships, U.S.-Saudi and U.S.-Israeli relations can stay the same. But it now creates another relationship and option for the United States. In the end, Iran is still a secondary power and the United States is the primary power. Iran will take advantage of the relationship, and the United States will manage it. 
The U.S., Iran, Israel, Russia, China, and Europe all have problems with Sunni radical extremism, and as Saudi Arabia is a large exporter of it, this shifting of power will likely be of great benefit. 

26 comments:

Trooper York said...

What a load of bullshit.

This is just a fig leaf on Obama's quest to empower radical Muslim groups. He has done nothing but empower the Muslim brotherhood in almost every country that had a stable government in the Middle East. His outreach to Iran does not have all this fancy calculation behind it. It is just another way to stick his thumb in the eye of Israel.

What a bunch of crap!

Known Unknown said...

BALM BALM BALM
BALM BALM IRAN!

Trooper York said...

This isn't the fucking Game of Thrones and Obama is no where as smart and experienced as Nixon.

Obama couldn't negotiate a blow job in a whorehouse.

Trooper York said...

Israel doesn't care how they look.
They have to survive not look good.

Obama is like most black people...anti-Semitic at heart. They know that. He has demonstrated that over and over again. The Israeli's are not going to wait for a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.

Never again.

Who could blame them?

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

For Israel it is a balancing act between it's own security needs on the one hand and the political ramifications for the allies the United States and western Europe.

It becomes a lot harder for Israel to justify a strike once the president of the United States is talking to that country.

But then in the other hand can they afford to wait 4 more years until a new US president comes along? by then it might be too late, and, Iran will have acquired the weapon.

edutcher said...

The Russkies don't seem to be killing themselves to make kissy face with the crazies.

The bipolar world of 40 years ago is gone and using that as the big reason to "pursue" Iran sounds like another one of Lurch's pipe dreams.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

For all the talk about how bad NK is at least they keep it within their borders.

Iran, within the last 40 years, has gone to war with neighbors, taken American hostages or allowed their citizens to taken them, changed their pro-western leaders for religious zealots influencing if not controlling the whole country.

Iran with nukes would be a disaster waiting to happen.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Lem said...
Iran, within the last 40 years, has gone to war with neighbors,


... been attacked by Iraq

changed their pro-western leaders

... overthrown a dictator

ricpic said...

For Israel it's existential.

It'll only be existential for us after Iran has smuggled a bomb across our ever so porous border to a waiting jihad cell almost anywhere in the USofA and the bomb has been exploded and THEN IT WILL BE REAL!

But not till then.

ricpic said...

ARM can always be counted on. The absolute enemy within.

test said...

ricpic said...
ARM can always be counted on. The absolute enemy within.


To reveal the left's priorities anyway. Iran still has a dictatorship, one far more oppressive to its population. But the left considers it a step forward because the new dictatorship is anti-American.

Trooper York said...

Seriously ARM?

You are defending Iran.

Wow buddy you really surprise me.

Methadras said...

Such crap nonsense. Hitting the reset button with Iran will fail. They will build a nuclear bomb anyway and Israel will basically send them a giant fuck you. Then watch what happens. Urkel and Long Face Lurch really know how to fuck things up don't they?

deborah said...

As far as Israel, they've sold military secrets we've given them, sunk one of our ships, USS Liberty, spied on us, but hey, international relations isn't beanbag.

I don't have a dog in the Israel/rest of the Middle East fight. I'm interested in balancing the power. Remember, the 9/11 bombers were all/almost all Saudis.

Richard Fernandez of Belmont Club is an excellent writer. He has a take on our relations with the Saudis I hadn't seen before:

After 9/11, Bush retaliated against Iraq in order to stick it to Saudi Arabia, who were deeply upset that Sunni Saddam Hussein was being upset, or as Hernandez puts it, "[Operation Iraqi Freedom] can be characterized as an attempt to “kill the Iraqi chicken to scare the Saudi monkey”, an effort to reimpose the dominance of the hegemon on a rebellious regional ally without actually destroying it. It was an effort which the Kingdom strongly resisted."

And he concludes (my emphasis), "Though the Bush idea may have been flawed in execution, it was probably the last [time] Washington viewed itself as the hegemon trying to impose hegemony. In contrast, the policy which replaced it was designed by the same people who gave the world the Obamacare website."

Trooper York said...

Really debbi?

You have no dog in the fight between Israel and radical Islam?

I sincerely think you should re-think that.

deborah said...

I'm more worried about al-Qaeda style radicalism than Irani. My point is to balance them both.

As I said, the US, Israel, Iran, China, Russia, Europe, all have trouble with the Sunni sect. I don't see the point of having Iran the bad guy vis-a-vis Saudi Arabia, whose citizens conducted 9/11 and who fought against us in Iraq.

Trooper York said...

When I was a kid and first stated doing accounting I would work in a lot of joints in the garment center. This was around 1970 to 1975 or so.

There was this one account that I went to where the guy was a furrier. Well that's not right. He made the linings that you put in fur coats. He had an Italian immigrant guy who worked for him who did the actual tailoring. Herman did the hondling and got the business.

His office was in a tiny second floor showroom on 7th Avenue off 32nd St. There was no air conditioning so in the summer it was boiling hot. But Herman never took off his jacket or rolled up his sleeves. One day it was like 110 degrees and we were dying. You see his office was like a cage. He had a metal gate that you had to buzzed into because he had these coats and he had been robbed a couple of times. The windows were crusted over with dirt and filth so it was impossible to open them. The only relief was an ancient metal fan that sounded like a motorboat.

Anyway this day Herman took off his jacket. And rolled up his sleeve. That's when I found out. You see he had this little tattoo on his arm. He got it over in Europe. I asked him about it. At first he refused to talk about it. But gradually he said a little. Over the months and years we would periodically talk about it.

Words are not adequate.

This is where I got my views on this matter.

Never again.

Trooper York said...

I know to people like Barack Obama and John Kerry it is no big deal. Or to Chuck Schumer and Anthony Weiner for that matter. They forget. Or don't believe it ever happened. So they were act in such a way to let it happen again.

There is no excuse for such people. No way to defend their actions. I just hope enough people of good will can combine to stop them in their tracks.

But I don't know. Maybe it was all so long ago and far away.

deborah said...

Trooper, I love Jews. I think they're hot. But I'm talking about practical politics and the balance of power. I do not think Iran will make a move against Israel because it is not in their self-interest.

deborah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

Practical Politics is you stick with your friends. You stick with a democracy. You stand against the people who finance and direct terrorists that kill Americans in America.

You don't cozy up with fanatical enemies of your way of life.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

Here is the kind of thing you get from Obama voters and people of that ilk.

You won't hear from Obama or Deblasio or Sharpton about this.

Why does a stupid half a guinea like me have to point this out all the time?

deborah said...

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Thanks for the talk, Troop.

Trooper York said...

No problem little Debbie. You know I love your tasty snacks.

deborah said...

Right back at you, Twinkie :)