They posit that because the water is running "through" private property that the water or the right to float down the river or the right to fish in the river belongs to everyone and people should have the ability to freely use the water as a recreational resource.
Well, they may be correct in that ALL the water flowing through our property, or past our property does not belong to us, the land owners. However, some of that water actually does belong to us in that we have certain water rights to use, for irrigation or consumption some of that water. The rest just passes by down stream to flow through/past the next guy's property. That water doesn't belong to me. OK.
So. We don't own the river, per se. However, we do own the land on either side of the river. We personally own the banks and the land that extends under the water to the MIDDLE of the river. It is our right to keep people from trespassing on our property and have the right to keep people from damaging our property. You may have the right to fish, boat, swim IN the water. You have no right to use my land to do it or damage my land either.
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| View of the river mentioned below our deck in Fall |
Fly fishing is a big deal in this area. People come from all over to fish. It is a good tourist draw and a source of money for the hotels, restaurants, lodges and guides. They also come from all over to recreational boating and kayaking on the waterways and lakes. Sounds mean to prohibit someone from having access to fish or for boating doesn't it? Well.....it isn't mean, it is self preservation by the land owners.
THESE are the real problems and why we don't want you on "our" rivers.
People abuse the access to the river by driving their vehicles over private land, over crop and pasture land. Getting stuck in the soft earth. Leave gates open so that the cattle can escape and create havoc on other people's properties and crops. Creating big ruts that erode the land and banks. They leave garbage. They must think that nature is an amusement park and there are people paid to pick up their trash. They build illegal campfires and damage trees trying to get firewood.
The boats go by at excessive speeds. Lots of fun for the boaters. They create big wakes washing back and forth between the stream banks causing erosion. Over and over until the bank collapse. Boaters who decide to randomly get off their boats to take a nature relief break (shit and piss) trample the fragile embankments and habitat. They leave their (literal) crap everywhere. Garbage again.
Noise. Most fishermen are quietly standing while fishing, however, once the fishing is over....the drinking and partying can commence!
Look...I have no problem with people enjoying the great outdoors, boating, fishing, kayaking, camping. It is what WE love to do. It is something that everyone should be doing. Connecting with nature and getting out of their stilted urban environments.
It isn't the majority of people who are the abusers of the property. Most serious fishermen and nature loving kayakers are respectful. It is the ignorant and disrespectful general public that is the problem. The damage that they do makes it so that we must protect ourselves. Many of the ranchers and private owners, have boat access for people they know and for guides that they know are responsible users.
Open to the general public for everyone? Are you nuts?? Do you want to get shot???
15 comments:
I'm a land owner, but do not have any water on or going through the property. Putting up no trespassing signs seems to draw certain people to the property to "oh, just looking around, but I'm not hunting now" even though they are carrying a rifle or shotgun.
DBQ, how is your family tree coming along? Make sure that you click on the down arrow of your DBQ Family Tree located on the top left side. Then click All hints, then photos. You'd be surprised on what you'll find.
I haven't been out west in a while, but when I was there we used to pack all our stuff out, just as we had packed it in. Take only pictures, leave only footprints were our guidelines.
Times, and people, have changed. I have a fence around my property - I don't even want deer wandering through. Yep, I am that guy.
I remember some German immigrant brothers who owned and farmed land on both sides of the river which they bought cheap because it was prone to flooding. They were some characters. They had a polka band and wore red uniforms when they played. They were fiercely territorial and would shoot at anyone they saw on their river. As long as no one was seriously injured or killed the sheriff, who had just one deputy then, didn't bother with them.
Now they're all dead and much of that land is owned by the DNR. There's enough river land and woods owned by Iowa for the benefit of hunters, fishermen, hikers and dog walkers that there's no excuse for trespassing on private property.
The Guardian is out of Manchester, something of a Commie stronghold in Dear Old England.
You really don't want to go there.
As for water rights, ship 'em a copy of The Big Country.
"They must think that nature is an amusement park and there are people paid to pick up their trash."
If I ruled the world, these people would be shot.
Whenever I see litter or those bags of dog poop people leave all over the place, I want to say to the jerks who leave them "yeah - don't worry, the maid will be along any minute now to clean up after you."
Water rights is a fascinating subset of property rights.
General Rule: Higher population = fewer property rights. The more people, the greater the number of fools who want to play the fool/exception to the rule and ruin the status quo for everyone else. (Exhibit A: Sloppy garbage strewing campers.)
General Rule: Less water, less property rights over water. (Exhibit A: California.) Government sets itself up as an arbiter as between conflicting private rights to water. However (of course), the government is no neutral magistrate in these fights and even manufactures "private rights" in order to back them.
P.S. Your view is beautiful!
P.P.S. The Guardian is a bunch of commies but it's the best go-to for that point of view. Don't waste time on American commies; they just crib from The Guardian.
By and large, most people are pretty considerate and respectful of nature and the property. It is the assholes who ruin it for everyone.
One sided articles like this one really jerk my chain (can you tell?)
:-D
Thanks Amartel.
We love the view. One of our greatest pleasures is to sit on the deck in the warm spring and summer afternoons, drink a cocktail (or two or three) before dinner, watch the birds, the cows, laugh at the dogs trying to herd the cows around in the fields across the river, fish jumping in the water, otters swimming from one side to the other..... just chat about life and whatever.
We sit and remark...THIS is why we work so hard. THIS is the reward. I could never live in the city again. Elbow to elbow with neighbors and then noise. I would really go crazy.
You live in an enviable spot, DBQ.
Once a beautiful spot is discovered, it inevitably gets ruined by the masses. Part of the problem is - the masses. We have way too many people on the planet, but that's another topic.
It depends where you live. If you are in a prior appropriation state (like California and most of the West), the water belongs to those who got it first. In a riparian state (most of the East), then everyone along a river has some reasonable use of it.
As far as navigation of waters go, most rivers that can support boats and kayaks can be navigated on and fished. That is typically a federal right. You definitely don't have a right to trespass on privately owned banks, or cause damage by wakes, or leave trash.
Most fishermen I know (especially fly fishermen) never leave trash. Some fisherman sadly do act like jerks. They spoil it for everyone else.
Exactly, Evi. The prior appropriation states mirror the adverse possession states where property ownership can be transferred from one party who is not using the land to it's highest best use to someone who consistently is doing so. (Usually upon proof of payment of taxes, of course!) The old west only vaguely like the new west. The State of Oregon claims ownership of all rainwater.
Maryland taxed rain water. So there!
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