This guarranties to bring smells and disease and vermin to your house. Think of the smell on a hot July night when it hasn't been picked up for two weeks. Or when a stray dog or racoon or wild cat knocks it over and spreads it all over the street.
This is part of the progressive campaign to turn America into a third world country. They want to spread filth and garbage and disease. Import disgusting illegal immigrants from Syria and Mexico and Whatthefuckistan and give them all the rights of a citizen. Stuff like welfare and SSI and EBT cards. Because.....I don't know why.
They won't be satisified until the hipster's kids in their monster strollers have flies on their eyes like a freaking Sally Struthers commercial.
97 comments:
Heh. New Jersey probably finally ran out of landfill space. I mean, it has to go somewhere.
Composting should be voluntary, rather than mandatory. Provide a premium off taxes for city services if someone wants to take it all to a central processing site. Shit like this with local collection (no pun intended) could work in suburban or stand-alone housing, not in densely populated apartment complexes or duplexes in the five boroughs.
So de Blaisio must be getting a hell of a kickback on the sales of the containers.
What a disgusting idea in such a large, closely packed city. Simply gross. Imagine the extra amount of poisons in the water supply, used to kill insects and rats.
Where will it be composted?
At the end of the day, most of that shit goes right into the landfill with the rest of the stuff.
We have brown-bin compost pick up every-other week. I fill that thing with yard waste, used paper towels, coffee grounds, and fruits and veggies that I buy and let rot on the counter.
Composting makes the most sense if they actually turn it into compost-dirt that can be re-used. In our case, they re-sell it. Fine whatever.
It really is about what they do with the compostable material.
I have my doubts that single-stream recycling actually works as promised. It's probably highly organized garbage, but I recycle anyway.
Deborah asks the big Q. Where will it be composted?
That is the question.
Also, like recycling, you are relying on people to partake in it properly. There are whole lists of items that should not be thrown in a compost bin. Like a chicken carcass, or any plastic.
What a waste. It's all biodeburnable anyway.
You compost April? I am shocked.
You know who composts? People who live in communes.
You know who lives in communes? Communists!
I am a true blue American.
I want to throw my garbage out and make an Indian cry!
That's a casino Indian not a dot head Indian.
Donald Trumo doesn't compost. He wouldn't make real Americans compost.
Do you think there are going to be these brown cans at Trump Tower?
You know who compost?
Bernie Sanders.
In the summer, I recycle a large green can of lawn waste each week. The City of Oceanside composts everybody's green waste and lets you pick up the finished product free of charge.
This is the composter we used back when we were able to have a garden. But some douchebags from Florida built a vacation home that they occupy about three weeks a year. They want to look at deer during those three weeks they invade our neighborhood, so they put up an automatic feeder, and pay their lawn guy to fill it. Now we're overrun with those monsters, so nobody can have a garden. Deer are rats with antlers. They eat everything they can. Other neighbors used to have a garden that was about 1/4 of an acre. The deer stripped it of everything.
You just reminded me of Dr.Fred trying to figure out a way to make an automatic apple feeder for visiting deer.
More of an apple deliverer.
His idea was to have like a roof rain gutter start at his patio door and go out of the house and down a hill directly to the deer. So he could feed them without scaring them or even humanizing them. Just deliver them apples one at a time when they come on his property and sniff around. A fool's errand, that's just inviting the entire family Cervidae into his yard. He was already overrun with hummingbirds and bats.
Then Fred died and there went that plan.
Troop - you found me out. I'm a communist all the way!
with coffee.
Troop - it gets better.... or worse...
Boulder, like many communities these days, has a summer farmer's market. All sorts of delicious food vendors line up and sell their nibbles. In order to be permitted into the farmer's market, one of the conditions is you must agree to provide plates, dinnerware, cups, and utensils made from compostable/bio-degradable materials. The cups and utensils are made from corn, the plates are all paper-based... After you are finished eating Savory Saigon, you toss the entire thing into a compost collection bag. It's a zero waste event.
Your head would explode. Me? I like it. I think it's a great idea.
Yes - but he's our curmudgeon.
I don't hate all drivers. I am good friends with my Bengali cab drivers. But I don't want live in fermenting fucking garbage rotting in my doorway for some stupid fucking kumbaya bullshit. If I wanted to wallow in waste and live in the third world then I would move to Bengladesh!
I hate people who ride bikes. That's more stupid hipster bullshit. The only good thing is the smile I get when one of them gets squashed like a bug by a delivery truck.
Trooper hates me. 100% I ride bikes and I compost. I hate me, too.
So let me get this straight. The government gets to dictate what kind of plates and cups you can use and you think that is a good thing?
You really are a commie April. What's next? Only Che t-shirts and Mao jackets allowed. My satin Starter Yankee Jacket and Merle Haggard concert T's are banned!
Do we still live in America or did we turn into freaking Sweden all of a sudden?
The horror of all horrors are those damn hippie hipster doofus bike paths.
dont worry April. Trump is going to fix it. He is going to fix it. He is going to eliminate bike lanes and institute limo lanes.
It's gonna be uuggeee!
The government gets to dictate what kind of plates and cups you can use and you think that is a good thing?
Che shirt - lol. I'd sooner scoop my eyes out with a corn fork.
Well, it's a local thing, not a fed thing. If you want to sell stuff at the farmer's market, in this town, you can comply with the rules. or don't and go someplace else. mildly commie, but still in line with federalism.
Bike paths in the park are fine. You should be with the rest of the perverts and mos that hang out in the park. But why does there have to be a bike path on Court Street that interferes with the beer delivery?
That's commie crapola right there.
There is no such thing as mildly commie. You give them an inch and the next thing you know they are inspecting your freaking garbage.
You are freaking me out April. You might have to change your name to Mayday.
Let me ask you something. Do you now or have you ever owned Birkenstock sandals?
That will tell the tale.
Trooper York said...
I hate people who ride bikes.
I bike to work sometimes on busy streets with no bike lanes and without a helmet.
Let me ask you something. Do you now or have you ever owned Birkenstock sandals?
In Europe I wore Birkenstocks with socks in the winter. It was the thing to do.
Well that's ok Chip. No helmet makes it American. Lots of dudes with DUI's have to do that. You get a pass.
I think composting is great! I'm sorry to hear you dislike it, Trooper. I still find your comments on the subject amusing.
Like any 'good' idea (depending on who you ask), it should not be a government mandate. Decomposable items (no meat, glass, metal, or plastic) separated would really cut down on garbage volume. This is a real recycling which is already a natural process so the compost company doesn't need to spend ridiculous amounts on a facility. All you need is land. I say let people who want to do it, and don't force anyone. I believe the benefits would be a net plus.
I've got one of those Compost tumblers. It is great. There is no huge wafting smell as it is mostly enclosed with small breathing holes. If compost is done right with the correct live stuff to dead stuff ratio, it smells really sweet after a few days.
But you don't get a pass for the Berkinstocks. I am afraid that labels you my friend. You are a lesbian.
Do you now or have you ever owned Birkenstock sandals?
*Whew* NO!
Birkenstock are on my Plantar Fasciitis list of approved footwear from my foot doc. I just cannot do it. I wear Naots-- Made in Israel.
Steg - excellent post. Which reminds me, we are not obliged or forced to compost. The bins are offered and they collect every-other week, but it's not mandatory.
Trooper York said...
But you don't get a pass for the Berkinstocks. I am afraid that labels you my friend. You are a lesbian.
That's OK Troop. I'll happily call myself a lesbian. We're into the same thing if you know what I mean.
Seriously?
You like bad haircuts and flannel?
You like bad haircuts and flannel?
When I go to the barber I ask for a "number 8." That's the setting on the clippers. I do like flannel.
I fear for your carpet.
I love flannel sheets. Cotton and soft.
NYC should build a plasma torch power plant and just incinerate the stuff in there. Then they can sell the black glass at the bottom as a novelty for jewelry makers if they want.
Limo lanes.
Trooper, you are on a real roll on this thread...I can't stop laughing.
AllenS said...
At the end of the day, most of that shit goes right into the landfill with the rest of the stuff.
I suspect that is very true.
AprilApple said...
The horror of all horrors are those damn hippie hipster doofus bike paths.
Your day to get "beat up" :-) I'll settle for all those bike paths where I live (Michigan) once the bikers start paying for them instead of using motorist highway funds & taxes.
Like Chickelit said...you CAN legally ride on regular streets without a special path just for special ole you...so those who wish to, man up and ride on...just watch out for the drunk drivers and distracted delivery trucks. That's free, right? I have wondered for a while now why Michigan made riding a bike with the flow of traffic mandatory instead of carefully against it (so you can see WTF is coming, hey!) as the law & rules of the road here used to be?
Trooper York said...
I fear for your carpet.
Well, there's carpet and then there's bare floors. We ditched a lot of carpet a couple years back (except in the bedrooms) and went for the hardwood look.
If Troop went this crazy over voluntary composting or non-landfill destined utensils at local markets, imagine what he'd say about composting toilets! His head would explode.
The cool thing is, apparently there's no smell. You line these things with wood chips, etc., and a ventilator removes any problem. Within a few months, you can enrich your own soil better than the hundreds of thousands of butts in Brooklyn can do for New Jersey!
But what do they care? Just a decade ago or so they were flushing it all into the Hudson or East Rivers, to intolerable stench, or floating it on a homeless barge with no destination. And then there was (and still is) the medical waste that beautifies the New Jersey coastline.
I think on issues of waste management we can safely say that New York is not leading the nation. And neither is New Jersey, as much as Tony Soprano might disagree.
We ditched carpet for hardwood and tile some time ago...except, again, for the bedrooms and my office. It was to slow down our frolicking 90 lb puppies if you will...a couple skid outs on sharp turns and they learned to slow down a bit...no more cross body (legs) blocks by the little charmers :-) when you didn't expect it.
Plus recycling is a big scam. You know they throw all that stuff in the same hole in the ground. You know why they do that? Because it is freaking garbage.
Haha. And yet, it's still special garbage if the Atlanta airport and other Southern collection schemes are to be believed. There they actually advertise to you how "convenient" it is to not separate any of the recyclables, including any garbage along with it, because they hire people to sort through it for you! (Did we need to take any more pride in being that lazy? I mean, this is the South, but I repeat myself. Yeah, immigration debates galore in 2015 and we really assume that garbage-sorting jobs is the way to employ Americans. Great).
Either way, I've got to second Steg's post. If you add cedar to it, it comes out great. New York would realize this if it didn't harbor an unnatural fear of plants and soil. Composting gets you some really great, high-quality soil - and yes it smells wonderful. Even though all soil comes (in part) from poop. If nothing else, it's poop from earthworms, at least.
Space for land is shrinking. As Tony Soprano said, "Buy land. God's not making any more of it." (As Trump knows). If we've gotten to the point where even IBM, etc., hire all these whizbang "futurists" to take out advertorials explaining how agriculture is coming to cities in specially designed high-rises for crops, I think it's time we to stop pretending that a medium-sized glass box for everyone that's completely disconnected from the natural environment is an ideal we can live with it, let alone strive for.
I thought it wasn't about sustainability any more, anyway. Not that long ago the Tea Party was telling me that if we don't stock up on canned goods, ammo, self-generated power and (obviously) sewage and other systems then we'd be that much easier to for the coming tyranny to round up.
Composting toilets? You first R & B....since you used the word "apparently" I presume you've done so yet. :-)
I've not sent any waste to the NYC East River or NJ either...we reserve ours for Toledo and Cleveland....and they for the rest of the lucky folks in the Ohio River drainage.
I am all for environmental efforts to preserve a clean environment...but not convinced yet that cities have the answer with compost pots in your house to put out bi-weekly. As it is here now, we'd have to write new rules for "recycling" which is mandatory with a 350 gallon outdoor container as well as another 350 gallon number for "regular" waste. My "recycling" container is full bi-weekly, while the "regular" waste" drum (food garbage, etc.) is less than 1/4 full...we do sort our waste, but composting by edict would be another matter. At present, no thanks. That stinky "regular" waste hamper smells bad enough and its right under the kitchen window. Even our dogs avoided it. Bad ju-ju or something.
My bet is that BOTH go to the land fill, as AllenS said, and it's all political otherwise. Been to the city waste place and I saw no separation there...recyclable or garbage, otherwise. One big heap. Loaded in to big trucks and hauled to the landfill.
Buy land. God's not making any more of it.
Except in places like Hawaii. But any new land created there belongs to the state. Talk about eminent domain.
R & B ... the "recyclable" stuff here really is sorted by humans with garden rakes over conveyor belts. That I've witnessed. My concern is what happens to it next....to the land fill is my guess. So why bother? I've never seen the sorted recyclable stuff hauled to users of the products. Just big trucks to the land fills. Presumably some land fills are cleaner than others? Maybe it'll get better, when politicians get better.
My grandmother had an outdoor composting toilet when I was a kid. They used to be very common. Hers was just yards away from the grindstone I wrote about here. I don't remember any bad smells. The ground was very soft and squishy around the base of the structure though. We were afraid that the ground might give way and we'd fall in.
R & B ... the "recyclable" stuff here really is sorted by humans with garden rakes over conveyor belts. That I've witnessed.
Yes, I know. That much I'm aware of. It's actually a really cool process, and I just saw a video on that I should post. What I was describing was instead Atlanta's (and who knows who else's) directive to go ahead and throw some trash in with the recyclables. I think that's retarded.
My concern is what happens to it next....to the land fill is my guess. So why bother?
That's why I want to find the video. It explains how, out of those seven or so categories of plastic plus glass, paper and aluminum, some streams get very heavy interest for resale and re-use, and others we're still working on. Styrofoam, for instance (i.e. polystyrene - Hi Chickelit!) or category "6". For a while I thought it was awesome how I could put these cups in the bin at work and detract from straight-up degradation of one of the more toxic plastics. Then I saw that it wasn't much in demand at all or useful for the recycling centers. Oh well, paper cups are good and probably even Solo cups would be a more useful material.
HERE it is. Man, are those Hank/John Green brothers informative!
I watched a documentary last night about Ed Gein. He lived alone on a farm in house that had never been wired for electricity nor plumbed with water. That means that he had an outdoor composting toilet.
PS: I was mildly amused by Ed Gein's "look" and how he reminded me a bit of Meade. I mean the hat, the dimples, the way of dressing, the hayseed demeanor. Nothing else implied.
Styrofoam, for instance (i.e. polystyrene - Hi Chickelit!) or category "6".
I actually like the smell of styrene monomer. It's hard to work with and polymerizes just by looking at it. The name comes from the Greek for a type of tree. Many chemical names are derived from natural products first found in wood. I have a theory that most of this occurred because people were wont to put spirits in wooden barrels and then the ethanol would extract the wood (SWIDT?). Over time, the extracts were distilled, isolated and named.
Ritmo you missed the point. This is not voluntary. It is mandated by government. It is another tax in the fines they are going to collect if they find a potato peel in your garbage. Who is going to pay? Middle class homeownwers. You think Trump and the people on park Avenue are going to recycle? Or Monesha in Bedford Stuyvesant? It is hard enough keeping her from throwing her fucking baby out the window.
Homey don't compost!
This is just a way to write tickets to people who have to pay or lose their house to the government in fines and penalties.
Old outdoor composting toilets are treasure troves for historians because of what else people threw in them or what might have fallen in out of pockets. There they are, dotting the whole American landscape, just waiting to be searched like a Wisconsin PI might do.
When I was in Pompeii years and years ago, I remember the excitement over researcher's searching the contents of old Roman latrines.
Don't summon the Demon chickie. I don't have time to delete today.
Well, extracts originally were the way things were isolated back in the day. Extract of this, oil of that. So much richer than nowadays when we just stick with one chemical and leave it at that.
When I was in Pompeii years and years ago, I remember the excitement over researcher's searching the contents of old Roman latrines.
I knew what you posted immediately prior would lead to this! Yes, it's true. Also true (and fascinating) is how much they knew just about the process. What did people wipe their asses with? Some type of brush was the norm. A guy at my work with plenty of backwoods knowledge gave me the summary when they called a beanbag toss a "corn hole" toss. WTF? The whole reason that latter term was pejorative was because people would use kernel-removed corn cobs as toilet paper. No way. Way.
It's kind of hilarious how the Romans used to shit in group sitting situations of dozens of holes on a long stone bench.
I'm more a fan of their water designs for the plumbing that draws water, than how they disposed of it.
They loved water. But we've made some improvements in how it's used since.
I agree Trooper it doesn't seem very well thought-out.
R&B: My father, who grew up and used that outdoor composter, used to joke about corncobs and how he'd always want the fresher white ones instead of the old used brown ones.
I'm more a fan of their water designs for the plumbing that draws water, than how they disposed of it.
Next time you're in Rome, seek out the Cloaca Maxima. It's still in use as a drainage sewer and has a conspicuous opening at the Tiber.
R&B: Oh, I miss remembered his joke! He used to joke about how you'd know if you'd been thorough wiping your ass back in the day. The punchline was something like "if you checked and the corncob was still white."
The cloaca was an ingenious achievement but it's not a compliment to the Romans' attempt at resourcefulness. As with their self-glorified empire itself, these are not sustainable systems. Greatness is found by living within one's means. There is an important historical theory in circulation now that proposes environmental collapse as a major reason for catastrophic social and political upheaval. We are finding more and more ancient societies these days that hunted themselves to death with commodity extinction or resource depletion. Long-term (generational) self-preservation is not a trait that many human societies seem to possess.
The cloaca was an ingenious achievement but it's not a compliment to the Romans' attempt at resourcefulness.
The fact that it's still in use means that it was practical. I assume that it helped the sanitation of the city, even if it contaminated people downstream.
Wasn't much of Rome's tonier development (including the Vatican) upstream from the Cloaca?
Well, the grain of salt is that ancient hygiene methods generally were appalling. But yes, they should have been aware of and concerned with what they were doing to those "downstream". A greater achievement was John Snow's identification of what was causing cholera in the Thames, etc., and the system designed to deal with that. Ancient kitchens had bathrooms that were adjacent to kitchens. Are you seeing a theme here?
Bringing water (and sewage) to the masses was one thing. A concern for not poisoning people was another. But then, we're talking about a society that lacked knowledge of antagonizing lead bound-sulfhydryl group enzymes. Again, that could have been difficult to have figured out, but then, their priorities were glorifying themselves and their Caesars, not keeping the destitute from dying or the wealthy from going insane.
Wasn't much of Rome's tonier development (including the Vatican) upstream from the Cloaca?
I can't remember. And neighborhood real estate values might have changed between 0 AD and 1850.
I can't remember. And neighborhood real estate values might have changed between 0 AD and 1850.
I guess it's related to why Upper West and Upper East side NYC neighborhoods developed where they did.
I guess it's related to why Upper West and Upper East side NYC neighborhoods developed where they did.
That's what bothers me about artificial concrete-jungle worship. Access to good, undeveloped land is a boon. It's valuable to humanity, the local ecology and the economy - and obviously requires some political will to preserve it every now and then. Honestly, Central Park is interesting the way it sits in the middle of a Manhattan street grid that seems to delineate boundaries every 14 blocks north-south and every four avenues east-west. If Central Park extended southward to 56th and east to Fourth (which is, ironically enough "Park Avenue") then the thing would sit entirely symmetrically within grids that have natural size boundaries to them that work for effective urban design (neighborhoods of a quarter mile in radius).
@R&B: This interactive map seems to indicate that the original park boundaries extended further south. And Park Avenue east of the park looks like it used to be a north south rail line.
I used to ride my bicycle to work. We live in the mountains and work was about seven miles away. The hills made it a helluva workout. Dodging the pickup trucks trying to run me into the ditch added to the excitement. I wanted to get a t-shirt that read "I'm not a granola head, I'm jut a fat guy trying to lose weight" to see if I became less of a target.
Despite my own bicycling ways, when I see a cyclist, my initial reaction is negative, because most of those guys seem to be sanctimonious assholes who'll ride in the middle of the lane instead of getting out of the way.
Trooper hits the nail on the head pointing out the problem is government mandates. We squabble over who gets to steer this giant ship--Dems or Repubs--when the bigger issue is reducing the size of the ship.
We used to have dumpsters along the roadways years ago. Then, about twenty years back, the county decided to get rid of them and erected four "convenience centers" to collect trash. A friend of mine was tossing stuff away at the new convenience center and the attendant saw what he was putting into the dumpster and said, "Now, Charlie, you know I can't let you throw that away here. You gotta take that stuff to the landfill and dispose of it there." My friend didn't even cut him a look, just kept emptying his truck, and replied, "The question isn't whether you can let me throw this away, it's whether you can stop me from throwing it away." Nothing more was said.
We need more people willing to do that.
@ windbag my initial reaction is negative, because most of those guys seem to be sanctimonious assholes who'll ride in the middle of the lane instead of getting out of the way.
You know why they do that?
It's safer. When there isn't a proper shoulder, cyclists move to the center of the lane out of no other reason that their own safety.
Cyclists may seem like jerks, but they know who will lose in a car v. bicycle crash.
The woman on the bike was wearing birkenstocks and was carrying a recyling bag. And she had a Hillary Clinton sticker on her backpack.
She sped up a lot as I was throwing garbage at her.
I know why they do that. I do that when I'm riding and there isn't any automobile traffic. When they continue to ride two abreast regardless of other traffic they earn their reputation of being assholes. It's not that cyclists seem like jerks, it's that some (note: some) cyclists are jerks.
Paintball gun! Aim for the sticker!
chickelit ... I have to laugh. When I lived in Korea, which had modern facilities in urban areas, the mountain folks just did not understand why anyone would place a "toilet" in their main abode, where they eat and sleep...cracked them up just talking about it. No matter how I tried to explain how a modern toilet worked they just thought I was nuts. However, they'd never had running water so it was perplexing. In my rather rural home I had an outhouse some 50 feet or so from the main building so they could accept that. Wasn't much fun in February however. Gave new meaning to a quick stop.
R & B ... just noticed your comment on plastics. Among them, Styrofoam is not allowed in our local recycling program...it goes in the "rubbish" bin and to the landfill. Other "hard" plastics are okay. Certain glass ware is also not allowed...retail bottles and jars are okay, table ware and drinking glasses and broken mirrors or window panes are not.
I suspect we've a long way to go on this recycling thing. I'm going to become a serial violator if my town demands compost pots in my house. Even a 3rd large container in the yard driveway would be a step too far....I already have 700 gallons capacity for waste that I must sort in the 2 350 gallon dumpsters we've been furnished (lose one and it's $55 for a new one) by the city.
That said, the idea of requiring composting containers (and fines if a sausage or whatever is found in the rubbish or recycling bins...easy to do from addresses on envelopes you toss out) HAS been suggested here...if it ever reaches the Council table I'll be there being a loud obnoxious jerk....that's a promise.
They get the recycling thing more efficient and encompassing, maybe then I'd re-consider. As it is now, no way. I already sort recyclables and rubbish carefully in my kitchen, from all over the house, in to two containers which I dump in to the outside ones when full...75%+ are recyclables. The remaining 25% or less "rubbish" tends to stink after a day, so no thanks on one more stinky pot to fill. The only thing I have that might be a compost deal is the tightly closed stainless steel canister I have in the yard for dog waste (poop patrol)...and so far the city says that goes in the rubbish bin, but double bagged.
BTW...today is my dumpster day...e.g., I wheel the 350 gallon things to the curb for pick up tomorrow ... and all day tomorrow is "no parking" day for the streets on the pick up route. The city patrols diligently for those parking fines I assure you all. Okay by me, since they street h20 spray & sweep on the same days as dumpster pick ups...a nice service.
What will make the NYC composting program especially interesting is the curries and other favored spices of many.
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