Sunday, April 27, 2014

Why no Wonder Woman movie?

It can easily be argued that Wonder Woman was overtly feminist in design... she was an Amazon and came from a culture and place that excluded men.   It would be appropriate that she (if she had an origin movie set in 2015) spend a great deal of time experiencing culture shock and under-estimating the ability of men to be competent at anything... which only works if she's wrong about the men.   In other words, Diana isn't feminist... she's sexist.

Which is likely the biggest reason that we haven't gotten a Wonder Woman movie.  -- They need me to write it. :P --  Because what people pushing for a Wonder Woman movie want is a ode to feminism... and that wouldn't be right.  For all that Wonder Woman could be used to frame an exploration of gender roles and preconceptions, it doesn't work to do that flipping of perception unless the thing that Diana learns is that men are every bit as real as women are real.

Make Wonder Woman a female Captain America, as parochial and "Boy Scout-ish", as set in her ways and misconceptions and unwilling to easily get over what she knows is true... and we could have something rather amazing.

It's not going to happen... partly because the idea is pushed by people who think that Thelma and Louise portrayed "strong" women.  And who think, not that a Wonder Woman movie would be awesome, but that a Wonder Woman movie ought to be viewed as a moral need.

(I think this guy sells posters... )

63 comments:

TrooperYork said...

It would be entirely possible to do a Wonder Woman movie if it were not for the fact that DC comics suck.

That is why the Marvel Comic Superheroes lend themselves to better storylines. Better origin stories. Better movies overall.

TrooperYork said...

It took a long time for computer technology to catch up to the comics. Now they can create places like Asgard or showcase the superpowers of various comic book characters in a way that is believable and not camp.

edutcher said...

DeviantArt isn't deviant and most of the people there sell their work.

Synova said...

Since I borrowed the artwork I figured I should plug the artist...

Rabel said...

"DeviantArt isn't deviant"

Dig a little deeper.

Synova said...

Batman doesn't suck... but I can't disagree about DC in general. Even before they started with all the movies, and I was a teenager, it was Marvel that caught my interest.

Trooper York said...

Batman is the exception that proves the rule. Even so most of the Batman movies sucked.

George Clooney?

I mean really.

Trooper York said...

Look at the other DC movies.

Green Lantern?

Catwoman?

Green Hornet?

I mean that is some steaming piles of crapola.

Synova said...

As amazing as it seems... there were worse Batman choices than George Clooney.

Trooper York said...

I do agree that they can do a great Wonder Woman movie.

But they have to think outside of the box.

What if they did a Wonder Woman movie that stood all of the feminist cant on it's head. A female hero who is so capable that she doesn't need affirmative action. Someone who succeeds because of her girl power.

(Preferably with tits like Lynda Carter)

Paddy O said...

"DC comics suck."

DC comics sucks as a business too. They have the properties that could pull something good off. And have. The original Superman movies were groundbreaking, as was Tim Burton's first Batman. Christopher Nolan's Batmans changed superhero movies entirely.

The trouble is the studio control of the properties. The recent Superman wasn't very good. Green Lantern was bad. But so was Fantastic Four, both of them, the second worse than the first.

With the Avengers storylines, Marvel has had complete control, and brings in their comic book writers and keeps the themes consistent.

Joss Whedon ties this all together. The Avengers is one of the most successful movies of all time. He wrote the script and directed. He had also written storylines for Marvel comics and his work has long featured ensemble casts with strong woman characters.

He penned a Wonder Woman script years ago, post-Firefly, that got nixed by the studio.

Trooper York said...

Hah. That is true.

How about this this dude?

Is that a moose knuckle or are you just happy to see your teenage ward?

Paddy O said...

Trooper, what do you think of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Trooper York said...

The disputes between fans of Marvel and DC are much worse than that between Republicans and Democrats.

Paddy O said...

"the disputes between fans of Marvel and DC are much worse.."

But for the same reasons. DC fans are all racists, just like all Democrats.

Fr Martin Fox said...

I never bought Wonder Woman comics, but then I never bought DC comics. None of my friends did; so I'm unclear who the audience was.

When I was a boy, comics seem to have been much more idealistic and much less dark. And I assumed most of the action comics were bought by boys. But I don't really know; and it's not a subject I've thought much about since.

Trooper York said...

I think Agents of Shield is a horrible mistake. First of all they went off track when they made Nick Fury a black guy.

I understand political correctness and all that bullshit but seriously?

Nick Fury originated in World War 2 with the Howling Commandos. The papered that over in the Captain America movies when they used Dum Dum Dugan and the French guy.

I mean it would be like making Sam Wilson a white guy. It is just not kosher.

Trooper York said...

The TV show is just your generic science fiction show. Not enjoyable in my book. Shield always had elements of James Bond type scenarios.

I mean they need to step up the Super Villains in the Shield series. They could have used the Red Skull or Baron Zemo or something.

That Baron Zemo was a real nasty character.

Trooper York said...

Plus how can I buy the Chinese doctor from ER as a Super Spy action hero?

Seriously guys? Aren't there some other hot broads you can put in a Spandex suit?

Paddy O said...

"...is a horrible mistake"

I got worried at first, but they've had some good episodes this year.

The one featuring Sif was great, the last few episodes have been top notch in the twists, bouncing off what happened in Winter Soldier.

"like making Sam Wilson a white guy..."

Didya hear about the new Fantastic Four movie? Reed Richards is gay and he marries Johnny Storm, who is black.

Synova said...

The problem with Wonder Woman (and maybe the other DC heroes, too?) is that she's flat. In the way that Superman is flat. Where do you get the character development?

Trooper York said...

You know what they really have to revive?

Classics Illustrated Comics. Those were the comics that told the stories of famous literary works in comic book form. You know. Moby Dick. The Last of the Mohicans. And my personal favorite....Michael Strogoff!

Man that was a bunch of book reports right there let me tell you!

Paddy O said...

"comics seem to have been much more idealistic and much less dark."

The 70s really brought in the cynicism, with the 80s pulling in the PC.

What I like about the Marvel movies is that they are holding on to a balance between idealism and darkness. Captain America is a great character for that.

Synova said...

Whatsherface from Shield was in Street Fighter with Van Damme. She was in ER?

Trooper York said...

You are exactly right Synova. There was never enough of a back story for the DC Comics. Except of course for Batman.

Compare that to the origin stories of characters like Magneto or Captain America or the Hulk. Just doesn't stand up.

Paddy O said...

"Classics Illustrated Comics. Those were the comics that told the stories of famous literary works in comic book form"

My dad taught literacy in juvenile hall using those. Very successfully. Conveys the storyline, while making it approachable.

I had a Bible version (The Picture Bible--with the Action Bible being the updated version with contemporary comics look), that I read over and over when I was younger. I still credit that for giving me a grasp of the big picture narrative stuff, much more than most others I know.

Trooper York said...

Wonder Woman could be a success if they went the route that they did in Thor.

Create an alternate world that is all of a piece. They have to believe in it the way they believe in Asgard with all the accompanying details.

Trooper York said...

Paddy I agree. The only episode I enjoyed is the one with Sif. That's the point. There are literally thousands of characters they can use in the series to introduce to a larger tv audience.

Imagine Doctor Strange being called in for a physic consultation. Or going up against Luke Cage when his hip hop career fails and he is a broken down loser commenting on the internet.

It could be epic!

Shouting Thomas said...

But they have to think outside of the box.

It's always dirty stuff with you, Trooper!

deborah said...

"That Baron Zemo was a real nasty character."

You bet your sweet ass he was.

I'm not into the super hero movies except for the Spiderman. Those were excellent. The two or three I watched.

Iron Man was well done. Only ever saw one Batman...Dark Knight, I think.

Trooper York said...

Ming Na-Wen played Doctor Jing-Mei Chen on ER for about 91 episodes.

She was remarkably unlikeable throughout the run only beating out the bitch from NewsRadio as the actor most likely to make you change the channel.

Trooper York said...

She also played Hop-Sing's daughter as a fetus on Bonanza.

Shouting Thomas said...

I'm thinking inside her box.

Trooper York said...

Shouting Thomas loves his lotus flowers.

Paddy O said...

Some Lady Sif scenes to fill in for lack of Wonder Woman.

Synova said...

Make Diana a demi-goddess similar to Hercules? The goddess Diana was the goddess of the hunt and childbirth.

I don't recall any story about why she left the hidden island were the Amazons lived but there could be something interesting done there.

My feeling, though, is that for whatever reason she came here, character development requires that she grow in some way, or change her ideas in some way and Diana as a feminist icon fails if she shows up hating men and just has her prejudices confirmed.

Trooper York said...

If they wanted to have a Chinese babe as a super spy they should have got Bai Ling.

Seriously.

Lem said...

Tweeted it. Good post Synova.

Icepick said...

I'd rather see a good She-Hulk movie.

Icepick said...

Reed Richards is gay and he marries Johnny Storm, who is black.

Well, Mister Fantastic is a VERY gay super hero nickname. NTTIAWWT

Trooper York said...

Think of the possibilities. They are endless. I mean she could come to earth with her prejudice against men intact and not worry about the opinion of lesser mortals. She would be the ultimate fish out of water trying to stay undercover as the first wave of an infiltration from the Isle of the Amazons which must be abandoned because of a imminent disaster like a volcano or an outbreak of chlamydia or something.

Since she would have no respect for men or their opinions or their worthiness as mates she could work various jobs to make money to develop information for her sisters. She could be a stripper or a porn star or date the owner of the Los Angles Clippers.

The possibilities are endless!

Shouting Thomas said...

So, we've moved on from the Two Minute Hate directed at This Week's Heretic?

Thank you, God.

South Park should do Wonder Woman. I'd go see that.

Icepick said...

The Wonder Woman in that picture looks like she's doing steroids.

Icepick said...

South Park should do Wonder Woman. I'd go see that.

It'd end up being kind of like The Snuke episode, I'd imagine....

Paddy O said...

"going up against Luke Cage"

I hear they're planning on casting Shia LeBeouf as Luke Cage in future movies.

Synova said...

I picked that picture because I liked it best of the ones when I googled "Wonder Woman images".

I like that she's muscular because she ought to at least look like she could manage in a fight. I clicked through to the images he used as models and he actually toned the muscles *down* a bit.

Also, I really like the way he designed her costume. I like the Roman details particularly. And I like that he combined them with the red and blue and kept the stars (though her hands cover most of the stars.)

edutcher said...

Rabel said...

DeviantArt isn't deviant

Dig a little deeper.


Haven't been there in a couple of years, but most of it was pretty good stuff.

PS There's always Terry and the Pirates.

Think what they could do with Dragon Lady and Burma.

Chip Ahoy said...

I saw W.W. on t.v. for the first time yesterday, and I must say, the actress is totes hot, and I mean otallytay othay in regular clothes. I realized then how it could be, the enthusiasm for making that splendid form superhero. But then when she twirls to turn super she looks absurdly girlish.

rhhardin said...

The best scene from Dark Knight Rises (confusing plot, hard to tell characters apart or what's going on, but there was Catwoman and Batman) was the end screenshot, a brief shot referring to an earlier moment in the film.

Working through Anne Hathaway films that look bearable, based on liking her character in Get Smart (2008).

So far only garbled plots.

Love and Other Drugs (2010) was okay, owing to humor. The guy gets the girl scene wasn't as good as Get Smart's, where she did the double yes. Yes, and then yes to that yes.

ndspinelli said...

My old man would not allow us to read comic books, he considered them trash. He was a smart dude. He did encourage us to read the comics in the newspapers and then point out other articles that would interest us individually. So, I have nothing to offer but I think Wonder Woman should be Latina.

ndspinelli said...

J-lo

Synova said...

She could be North African on the theory that this is where the Amazons lived... though I have a vague notion that they also could be placed around the Black Sea area, maybe... didn't the Greek Heracles have a run in...

Unknown said...

They keep remaking Superman, Spiderman, Batman. I lost interest a long time ago. Then I'm not a target audience. I loathe most of Hollywood and generally stay away.

A good wonder woman movie that rejected leftwing feminism would be nice. I agree it won't happen.

Unknown said...

I'd be all in if Synova wrote the script. Paying Customer. Front row with popcorn.

To me, Hollywood is just the same cookie cutter plotline over and over. (sort of like my boring posts)

XRay said...

I was late to the game, early fifties. But I never thought of WW as other than just another person. A "Super" person for sure, but nothing more outrageous than that.

William said...

To rub it in, they're making a movie based on Barbie. Not live action, but like Toy Story. Maybe they could give her a few superpowers to widen the appeal. She'd be really awesome if she had a vagina.

Known Unknown said...

Gal Gadot is playing Wonder Woman in the Man of Steel sequel (Batman vs. Superman)

Pay attention!

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Professor Vandiver says that the ancient Greeks considered the Amazons to be terrible monsters to be conquered or destroyed, if at all possible.

I have no reason to think she's wrong about that.

deborah said...

"To rub it in, they're making a movie based on Barbie. Not live action, but like Toy Story. Maybe they could give her a few superpowers to widen the appeal. She'd be really awesome if she had a vagina."

Firstly, it's scary you know a Pixar Barbie movie is coming out. That's not like you.

Secondly, how has this not already happened?

deborah said...

April:
"A good wonder woman movie that rejected leftwing feminism would be nice. I agree it won't happen."

I don't think it's out of the question. As rh has been saying about Get Smart the movie, Anne Hathaway (99) learns that being a feminist doesn't have to mean rejecting the awesome yumminess and abilities of men.

(Is it just me, or is rh campaigning for an Anne Hathaway WW :)

Paddy O said...

Here's an article on Whedon's take on Wonder Woman.

I think Whedon has a way of portraying strong female characters without depending on conventional feminism.

Which is why I'm sad that Firefly didn't get a chance to explore the characters more.

Aridog said...

Maybe it's just me, but the woman portrayed in the post looks a whole lot like Danica Patrick. Yes, she does.

Aridog said...

Just noticed this...do NOT click on the last link in my post...it converts to a "Fanpop" site...a predator site.