"Delivering a rare speech for a Republican at this bastion of liberalism, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul on Wednesday was given multiple standing ovations by the left-wing audience after railing against government surveillance and warning the students: “Your right to privacy is under assault.”
“I am here to tell you that if you own a cell phone, you’re under surveillance,” he told the crowd.
Paul’s address at the Berkeley Forum on the campus of the University of California at Berkeley focused on the National Security Agency’s collection of telephone metadata and the debate over privacy.
During his remarks, the potential 2016 Republican candidate discussed California Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s claim that the CIA had spied on her congressional staff, and announced that he plans to call for a special committee on Capitol Hill to investigate the domestic spying by government agencies .
“No one should be allowed to invade your privacy,” Paul said. “That’s why I’m announcing today that when I return to Washington, I will push for a select committee styled after the Church Committee that investigated the abuses of power of the intelligence committee in the 70s. It should be bipartisan. It should be independent, and wide reaching. It should have full power to investigate and reform those who spy on us in the name of protecting us.”
Added Paul: “It should watch the watchers.”
Meanwhile, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has been lying (apparently) about his knowledge of the NSA domestic spying programs.
Last week, Mark Zuckerberg made headlines by posting about how he called President Barack Obama to express outrage and shock about the government’s spying activities. Of course, anyone familiar with Facebook and what is going on generally between private tech behemoths and U.S. intelligence agencies knew right away that his statement was one gigantic heap of stinking bullshit. Well now we have the proof.
Earlier today, the senior lawyer for the NSA made it completely clear that U.S. tech companies were fully aware of all the spying going on, including the PRISM program (on that note read my recent post: The Most Evil and Disturbing NSA Spy Practices To-Date Have Just Been Revealed).
So stop the acting all of you Silicon Valley CEOs. We know you are fully on board with extraordinary violations of your fellow citizens’ civil liberties. We know full well that you have been too cowardly to stand up for the values this country was founded on. We know you and your companies are compromised. Stop pretending, stop bullshitting. You’ve done enough harm.
66 comments:
The description of Paul's audience as left wing... I'm dubious about that.
Kids always rebel against the adults. Mom and Dad are left wingers. Faculty and admin are left wingers.
A new rebellion is brewing! At of all places, Berkeley!
Figures.
Anyone who uses facebook with the expectation of privacy isn't real bright. Even without the spying angle, facebook is a joke where privacy is concerned.
Facebook was tailor made to be spied on.
It's all over now, Baby Blue.
All those Berkeley red diaper babies applauding a Republican! Earthquake changes acomin'.
The left's representatives are an embarrassment: Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
We can all find common ground with that fact.
Leftist groupthink will prevail, regardless of a momentary anomaly at Berkeley.
Don't kid yourselves - those students are thoroughly indoctrinated and will march in lockstep into government positions and they are ready to crush anyone they oppose or who opposes them on their quest for domination. Their hatred of individual human rights for Americans cannot be overcome. They are the future.
I gotta go with Sixty at 10:32 am. I know, kids are kids, but they are dumber than at any time since the founding of this country.
If Pelosi had stood in front of the same crowd, and stated: "We are recording all of the conversations between right-wingers." The crowd would have exploded in applause.
Probably true, Sixty. However, there are cracks in the wall. Big government authoritarian neo-fascism isn't bringing the utopia. Sure, they still hold out hope. Big brother spying on them is a red line. Esp when the spying is on them. (Cognitive dissonance aside.)
These are the same people who were certain George W Bush was hiding in the basement listening to their phone calls.
They don't like it. and now it's real.
I think April has it right. They are pissed because the government is spying on "them." Not some right wing religious nuts. The government is listening to their conversation and that they can not abide.
Paul can ride that for a lot of votes.
With the added bonus that he is utterly and completely right.
His platform of privacy rights, getting us out of wars overseas and intelligent tax reform can go a long way.
There are really 2 Berkeleys - the Arts side is Lefty as Hell, very pie-in-the-sky.
The Science side is more down-to-earth.
Sixty may be right, but the country is overdue for a revolution - 50 years since the 60s, after all.
PS Those overseas wars sometimes are necessary (we tried isolationism and it didn't work) and, if it's time to disengage from one, Choom's way ain't the way to do it.
Yea, I'm skeptical. The average young voter today can be swayed by a viral kitten video to vote themselves into slavery.
That's not complaetly fair. Many young people I know are pretty skeptical. They have no respect for Democratic leaders either, but they are very susceptible to ideas like the "first black President" or the "first woman President" or anyone offering free stuff. Everybody loves free stuff.
You're absolutely right bags. But running a campaign to stop the government from spying on your cell phone will resonate beyond any other possible issue. These young whippersnappers are totally obsessed and dependent on their phones. Not a minute goes by that they are not tweeting or twatting or facebooking away. You touch that and they will be pissed off big time.
The doddering political class like Reid, Pelosi, Clinton, Bush, Ryan, Romney and McCain have no freaking idea the cultural dominance of the cellphone.
It could be the ultimate wedge issue.
Young people, the ones under 30 that I interact with in California, are more "libertarian" than you expect and even more conservative in surprising ways.
If you want to get their attention, Rand is doing it right. They are concerned with the economy and their dim economic future. Obamacare is a joke and they know that they were played for dupes. Spying and the Internet control is a HUGE HUGE deal for them. They live and die by their electronic devices and are very concerned about the spying and control. Climate change is not even on their radar although they are concerned with the general ecology and pollution.
If you want to turn them off: start spouting off about gay marriage, rant against marijuana, abortion and a whole host of other Social Issues. Beat the drum of military intervention around the world. They know just who is going to be cannon fodder.
Rand has it exactly right to appeal to the young voters, stress these things. Economic Conservatism, Job Growth. Small non intrusive government. Strong defensive military but not invasive actions. Stop the spying. Keep the government out of the Internet. Local control. Libertarianism with a small "L". Freedom of choice!! Obamacare was crafted to ride on the backs of the young....and many of them know it. Now.
As tempting as it is to say "I told you so and You voted for this crap sandwich eat it"....we need to not be the triumphant scolding parent but rather get them involved in changing the problems.
Illegal immigration. I'm flummoxed on what they think or should be done about that.
Everyone does love free stuff. Indeed. Even if the free is total crap.
I'm emptying my aunt's 10'x15' storage locker. It's filled with crap. We calculated She spent $20,000 dollars over that last 11 years storing worthless items.
That is a majorly stupid economic decision. (did I mention she's a big time lefty dem?) Some young girl was milling around the storage units and she managed to find out the stuff inside is going to be hauled off. ooo - hey - can I have it? It's free, right?!? Freeeee!
I gave her a few things to stuff into her already full car. Then I kindly hinted that she needed to leave us alone.
Hoarding, indeed collecting, is a mental illness...
...says the guy who has enough wood on hand to keep me busy if I live to be 90. But it's future products! And profit! Who doesn't like profit?
Well, other than Occupy, college students, government, leftists in general and many commenters here.
On the other hand, if worse comes to worse, I can use it to keep me warm.
DBQ has it exactly right. Even though I am the biggest social conservative who posts here I would sign on to someone who would run on the issues that Rand Paul espouses.
One perfect example. He talked about Egypt. How we spend billions of dollars to go from one corrupt regime to another. For what? Who gives a fuck? That money would be well spent somewhere else. Or even better we can keep it in the taxpayers pockets. Fuck those sand monkeys. Give Israel enough bombs and bullets and they can take care of themselves and we don't have to concern ourselves with their bullshit.
Sixty you only have all that wood because of your comprehensive collection of "Jugs" magazine.
Hoarding, indeed collecting, is a mental illness.
Absolutely a mental illness....unless it is yarn, fabric, acrylic and oil paints, Fiestaware, art deco California pottery, crystal glassware and .....um......nevermind.
@ Trooper. Thanks.
The social conservative issues should be a State's rights issue. Not a Federal one. If Mass. wants to legalize gay marriage and North Dakota doesn't it is only the business of each electorate in that state.....IMHO.
Running a Federal campaign and stressing social, religious issues is not going to gain votes and will alienate people over issues that the Federal government doesn't or shouldn't have any control.
Anyone who uses facebook with the expectation of privacy isn't real bright. Even without the spying angle, facebook is a joke where privacy is concerned.
Yah, not just Facebook but Google, Yahoo, just using the internet gets you tagged and tracked. It's the government and it's corporations. And when they start working togther...Look the f*$% out. Well, I guess they are already.
Your private life will explode.
Very true phx but that is you putting your information out there for them to mine for nuggets. Your phone is a different matter. The government should not be monitoring your cell phone calls or your internet browsing on your phone.
The excuse of national security is bullshit. It is the same excuse Nixon and J Edgar Hoover used and how did that work out for them?
I don't see why what is being done today is any different than the government tapping your phone, or spying in and video taping through your windows, which nobody would stand for. The internet is just as necessary a part of life today as windows and phones have been. It's not really choosing to put your info out there anymore than making a call is or having windows is. The internet is how we live now, and it's near impossible to not use it. It's not simply a choice like joining a club or or holding up a sign on the street. The Gladys Kravitz and petty tyrants of our time have simply taken advantage of our lazy apathy and false security of being part of a herd. If the wolves pick you out, the herd will not help you.
Here is your chance to mock me...am I strange because I do not care if anyone is watching me, listening to me, what-the flip-ever?
It's when you come at me that I will resist, and I will resit you lethally. That is a promise. I may go down, but so will many of those "watching." Been there, done that...and I KNOW others here have been there done that too.
WTF are we afraid of? Time comes just stomp the shit out of the opposition. Or go down trying. Seriously.
This atmosphere of "fear" of this or that, from some omniscient power, just hacks me off.
Zuckerberg: You will embrace this rebellion. Support it from our lands in the north. I will gain English favor by condemning it and ordering opposed from our lands in the south.
It's when you come at me that I will resist, and I will resit you lethally.
And I'm not so much worried about them watching me and maybe they'll come at and maybe they won't, but for sure they are manipulating everybody in ways we never dreamed of, and that scares the snot out of me.
How dost one twat?
I don't think it's a verb.
But here is the very essence of twat for you lonely boys.
This is what we are up against!
Odd response to this piece of news from Jay Nordlinger over at NRO.
I would have been more impressed if he had gone in there and said something about abortion.
If Rand Paul does win the nomination it ain't goin' to be easy.
Aridog, History is littered with martyrs that failed to help. The danger is that not resting when it can make a difference leaves you no other option but martydom. You're appeasing a la Neville Chamberlain. I don't want you or any of us to go down fighting when all we have to do is say now: "That's far enough there little tyrant. You are not coming up in my shit now or later." They depend entirely on apathy to take over. "All that's required for evil to succeed..." is a very well worn lesson in history.
The problem with this government info gathering is that the government has taken or been given through regulation too much power to grant you your rights now. Legal, peaceful means of fighting back can be taken away. The IRS thwarting conservative groups from participating in the political process is a perfect example. They can collect info on you that may seem innocuous, but tells some bureaucrat that you do not help their agenda, so your approval to operate legally will be withheld. So much of what we do today requires some approval by a government official through licenses, taxes, registration and all kinds of regulations that there is just an endless array of tools at their discretion to shut you down, if the right person doesn't like your profile. As we have seen, even when this is illegal nobody gets punished or even stopped from doing it.
For me, someone who is constantly required to get government approval for most everything I do whether business, charity, or personal, I don't think it's paranoid to be worried about everything I say or do online or phone being accessed. Remember, everyone of us breaks a number of laws daily without even thinking about it. Much of what you say on line or on the phone can be construed as conspiracy if the need is there.
Bagoh20...I have no idea how you compare me to Neville
chamberlain...I am the polar opposite. No one will threaten me without a lethal response. Ever.
What is so hard to grasp about that? I'm not imagining, I am relating what is reality. WTF?
bagoh20 said...
Aridog, History is littered with martyrs that failed to help.
I will never be a martyr, ever. Whatever I do will leave a mark. Or I will just say fuck it and walk away. Martyrdom is for morons, nothing more.
...running a campaign to stop the government from spying on your cell phone will resonate beyond any other possible issue
Even more than abortion? I think his view on that puts him at odds with most young voters. From a Democratic "communications strategist":
"Rand Paul is against my civil liberties, and those of every woman in America. He believes big government should be making our most private, personal decisions for us. Rand Paul is not only anti-choice, he embraces 'personhood,' the far end of the extremist spectrum on opposing reproductive rights."
This is interesting. I would not have expected that any Republican could set foot on the UC campus, much less speak and be applauded several times.
DBQ makes good points above. I'll add that Rand benefits form his father's kookiness, plus Rand's recent statement about social items that maybe we just have to shake hands, agree to disagree, and work together to solve the issues we have in common.
NSA spying would be one of those issues. Lack of jobs is another. High taxes when one finally finds a job is a third. ObamaCare is a fourth.
There will always be liberal students, and they will never vote Republican, but someone like Rand could peel off enough of them to change the campaign dynamic. Especially male students who are tired of having the war on women rammed down their throats.
Aridog, I'm referring to the mindset that we don't have to worry about it until they come after us as individuals. I'm saying that's a mistake, because once they have their Poland, the remedy is bad for everyone, and I believe they are already using the information against innocent citizens' interests. If you let it get to point of requiring violence, then they will just use that to prove how spying on you was justified. This is a case of the frog in the warming water. We need to bitch about this loud and often until they are the ones feeling the heat.
Even more than abortion? I think his view on that puts him at odds with most young voters. From a Democratic "communications strategist":
Yes. Not everyone, especially young men, interested in the topic or are going to have an abortion. All of them have cell phones and use the internet. All of them are subject to Obamacare mandates.
The smart thing for Rand Paul to do is to just shut up about abortion or gay marriage or any of those other idiotic social issue distractions that the Democrats what him to get high centered on. Just refuse to discuss them. Don't answer. Do not discuss. Or better yet.....make them a State's rights issue not a Federal Government issue.
There is ZERO point to discussing things over which you have no jurisdiction or control.
"There will always be liberal students, and they will never vote Republican, but someone like Rand could peel off enough of them to change the campaign dynamic."
What does "Peel Off" mean in this context, since they will "never vote Republican"?
"The smart thing for Rand Paul to do is to just shut up about abortion or gay marriage or any of those other idiotic social issue distractions that the Democrats what him to get high centered on."
Really? That's not going to stop the Democrats and MSM from bringing up Abortion and Gay marriage and painting Paul as a member of the Religious Right. Meanwhile, all the conservative, social issues variety, will be disheartened and not show up and vote.
Its amazing how Democrats/liberals NEVER pull this "we shouldn't talk about X just Y" nonsense. They talk about everything. They are attacking constantly on all fronts.
Rand Paul can dangle the fear of spying in front of those Berkeley types all he wants, but they will never vote for a guy whose co-author on a book was a neo-Confederate or who had a campaign staffer who liked to dress up in KKK togs. Or who has a waffling, confused stand on the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
Besides I don't remember Dole, McCain, Bush I in 1992, or Ford talking about "social issues" - and they all lost.
Bush I WON in 1988 by painting Dukais as a "Card carrying member of the ACLU" - and running Willie Horton ads.
This is interesting. I would not have expected that any Republican could set foot on the UC campus, much less speak and be applauded several times.
Less ideology. More pragmatism.
If they can accept someone who was an acolyte of Bill Ayers and the racist Reverend Wright they can accept Paul. He just has to be able to fight the main steam media. Which he can do by marginalizing them. Refuse to bow down to them and talk over their heads.
Nobody is more anti-abortion than me but I don't think Rand Paul has to accept what they will put on him. They are going to do it anyway. So it doesn't matter what they say. He has to fight the battle on his terms not theirs. Refuse to accept the parameters they set. Take the battle to them. Play offense not defense.
"The smart thing for Rand Paul to do is to just shut up about abortion or gay marriage or any of those other idiotic social issue distractions that the Democrats what him to get high centered on."
Really? That's not going to stop the Democrats and MSM from bringing up Abortion and Gay marriage and painting Paul as a member of the Religious Right
I guess I mean more like...don't engage them and answer questions that are meant to put you into a box and only to generate sound bites that can be used against you. Don't engage.
They want to get candidates that they don't like to dive into the minutia and itty details of issues like abortion or gay marriage. The more detailed you get on some issues the more you leave yourself open to being misquoted.
These are issues that have little to no relevance to the position being sought. The President doesn't MAKE laws.....or least he didn't used to. These issues are for the States to decide, the Courts and the Congress to decide. The elected official is bound by the laws of the State or Federal Government and can (until now) only act within the power of his/her office.
Avoid the trap and pitfall of discussing his PERSONAL views and stick to the position. Keep all discussions to a higher level.
Nothing is going to stop the Dems and MSM from spinning lying and distorting. Just do not engage with them on this, deflect and don't give them ammunition.
If questioned about abortion, Paul needs to say: "I'm all for aborting you." Then, he pulls his pistol from his pocket...
[Paul]who has a waffling, confused stand on the 1964 Civil Rights Act
I don't see anything waffling or confused about his stand on the civil rights act Because YOU are confused, maybe don't agree with him or because the Washington post wants to put words into his mouth....there is nothing confusing about it. It is a Libertarian (with a large L) position. One that I agree with as well to some extent.
The ramifications of the act are what he, and many other question.
the ramifications beyond race, and I have been concerned about the ramifications of certain portions of the Civil Rights Act beyond race, as they are now being applied to smoking, menus, listing calories and things on menus, and guns. And so I do question some of the ramifications and the extensions but I never questioned the Civil Rights Act and never came out in opposition to the Civil Rights Act or ever introduced anything to alter the Civil Rights Act."
This is pretty clear and not confused at all.
Why not call the Civil Rights Act what it is and was intended to be by the Left, the End of Freedom of Association Act.
Bagoh20 asaid ...
If you let it get to point of requiring violence, ...
I agree with you...but I am already at the point where violence is the only response I can muster. I hate it but it is what it is where I live. A .45 ACP is the only solution for morons with philosophical issues. SAB.
I am really damn tired of making nice...I've lived all over the world and have been "nice" in every place I have been, and what I find in my own country is you really need killing, dudes, really...unlike the people I have met elsewhere...you HAVE NO EXCUSE!
I am one sick puppy, most would say...but I am what I am.
AllenS says...
Then, he pulls his pistol from his pocket...
Exactly.
Post birth abortion ... I am for it.
I guess I mean more like...don't engage them and answer questions that are meant to put you into a box and only to generate sound bites that can be used against you. Don't engage.
Lol. The new Republicanism: Nevermind the unpopular views! You'll never know what I REALLY think!
Aye you guys are really giving this stuff a lot of thought - and in some cases, emotion. Apparently the prospect of a candidate with a pulse is really revving things up.
It's cute watching all the strategizing. ;-)
This is interesting. I would not have expected that any Republican could set foot on the UC campus, much less speak and be applauded several times.
Amazing what making nice with others and not assuming so many countrymen to be some kind of "enemy" will do, eh? ;-)
Illegal immigration. I'm flummoxed on what they think or should be done about that.
Esp. if we're talking about CA I don't have it on good evidence but would wager a day's wages that they don't give rat's ass. If they want to pick berries for that wage I'm sure the positions are open. Some would even do it for free just to get extra board and access to organic greens.
The new Republicanism: Nevermind the unpopular views! You'll never know what I REALLY think!
Yup. :-)
Take a page from the Democrats and Obama. Never tell the real truth. Give'em what they want to hear, and then do whatever the fuck you want anyway.
Ritmo's bought into the Republicans will never win another election wiseass thing.
Take my word for it, Ritmo...
Sometime in the near future, the Dems will get their asses handed to them, and the punditry will be equally vocal that Dems are finished for good.
One of the good things about being an Old Dawg is that you see everything happen all over again over time.
Take a page from the Democrats and Obama. Never tell the real truth.
Either that, or just possess the capacity to change one's mind. Obviously that could also be the case here.
Good to know Thomas knows when and how to put himself into the /ignore mode.
One of the good things about being an Old Dawg is that you see everything happen all over again over time.
Lol - you mean, like losing massive numbers of one's own brain cells? That kind of thing?
I will be surprised if Rand Paul can pull off a presidential election, but I think that it would be okay with me if he did.
He proves, very much, that libertarian and libertarian leaning views can find a place on the right, where they simply can not do so on the left. There is no-place on the left to wiggle in a fiscal responsibility message.
The big old conservative bug-a-bear of "legislating morality" is all that the Democrats have to appeal to young people who are very much social liberals and yet also increasingly fiscal conservatives.
Which one is easier to make accomodation with, particularly as no one really wants to keep you from living with and loving who you want? And no one is actually keeping you from easily obtained birth control? Is that really harder to live with than the debt that Democrats expect millenials to spend their entire lives paying for?
Where can a libertarian leaner fit on the left? Obama sold a nice story, but proved to be just as big government oppression, drone killer, NSA evil as anyone on the right ever has been. So, not even privacy... which is supposed to be the big thing with gay marriage and abortion... right? Young people who believe in open source and freedom of information and take for granted their own individual global presence are disillusioned by the broken promises because they, at least, really believed it.
So Rand has some conservative views on abortion... he's a real medical doctor after all. But that's weighed against believable anti-war, anti-drone killing, pro-privacy, freedom and liberty ideals.
And if Rand can't actually win... he still demonstrates that Republicans can *move* that direction. And if he can get young people excited about ideas (and many of them *are* very libertarian) he could be the "entry level drug" that introduces them to "decriminalize pot" Perry, or Cruz or others...
Who's going to be on the Democrat side this time around? Some old lady who let "Vile Rat" die.
So Rand has some conservative views on abortion... he's a real medical doctor after all. But that's weighed against believable anti-war, anti-drone killing, pro-privacy, freedom and liberty ideals.
About those "believable" ideals -- a problem with Paul is that he has seemed to flip-flop at times, when perhaps he just didn't state his position clearly. Like last year when he said during his filibuster against drone use:
“I will speak as long as it takes, until the alarm is sounded from coast to coast that our Constitution is important, that your rights to trial by jury are precious, that no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court."
And then a month later on Neil Cavuto's show on the Fox Business Network, he got into a major pickle with this:
“I’ve never argued against any technology being used when you have an imminent threat, an active crime going on,” Paul told Cavuto, responding to a question about the Boston Marathon manhunt. “If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash, I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him. But it’s different if they want to fly over your hot tub or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities.”
That didn't sit well with libertarians, so I can't see how it would fare well at all with leftists.
Seriously? You think that is a problem when the rest of the field is sucking drone dick and would look up your skirt for terrorists?
If Rand Paul comes out for abolishing the TSA and the IRS he might win by acclamation.
Considering that Obama authorized drone kills of American citizens without trial...
... Rand Paul would have to be far worse than inarticulate while defining the difference between "without trial" and "caught in act of shooting your mother."
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