"
Today’s Dariano v. Morgan Hill Unified School Dist. (9th Cir. Feb. 27, 2014) upholds a California high school’s decision to forbid students from wearing American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo. (See
here and
here for more on this case.)"
The court points out that the rights of students in public high schools are limited — under the Supreme Court’s decision in Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Comm. School Dist. (1969), student speech could be restricted if “school authorities [can reasonably] forecast substantial disruption of or material interference with school activities” stemming from the speech...
After citing the relevant cases, which I left out here, Volokh expands on what the decision means and it's possible ramifications.
This is a classic “heckler’s veto” — thugs threatening to attack the speaker, and government officials suppressing the speech to prevent such violence. “Heckler’s vetoes” are generally not allowed under First Amendment law; the government should generally protect the speaker and threaten to arrest the thugs, not suppress the speaker’s speech...
The 9th Circuit decision may thus be a faithful application of Tinker, and it might be that Tinker sets forth the correct constitutional rule here...
Yet even if the judges are right, the situation in the school seems very bad. Somehow, we’ve reached the point that students can’t safely display the American flag in an American school, because of a fear that other students will attack them for it — and the school feels unable to prevent such attacks (by punishing the threateners and the attackers, and by teaching students tolerance for other students’ speech). Something is badly wrong, whether such an incident happens on May 5 or any other day.
And this is especially so because behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated.
WAPO, via an Iowa hawk tweet of Instapundit.
110 comments:
I remember the old story of Texas sending one Ranger to deal with a Mexican mob.
When the townsfolk asked, "they sent only one?", the Ranger answered, "You've only got one mob".
Of course, we are talking the 9th Circus and CA.
CA wussed out after Joaquin Murrieta was shot.
I can think of no better way to show respect for the flag than to drip mustard on it accidentally at lunch and then wad it up and toss it in with your jeans and underwear when you get home.
(and no, the kids shouldn't be banned from doing it, but sheesh -- show a little class, kids)
I agree that the school has a responsibility to prevent violence that can be reasonably expected, including by restricting speech, but they have no right to do it so selectively, especially with speech that is so innocuous. I assume no other nation's flag was banned.
This is the state of our culture of political correctness today where only the traditional, the American, the White, and the Christian is repressed. If you happen to be all those things, you are truly a group being discriminated against by your own society, which is mostly run by a group of similar-thinking, narrow-minded cowards who never miss a chance to foment hatred and conflict rather than foster tolerance and community.
They could have taken great efforts to make American, Mexican, and any other flags welcome, and to have fostered the peaceful and perfectly natural side by side appearance of them as is common everyday in places all around this nation. Instead they alienated a large number of people and rubbed salt in a wound they could have healed. They didn't even try to make it better, but took the lazy and cowardly route of insulting the group least likely to get violent. They should find easier work in some other field. They are not educator material.
Why in the fuck should Mexican flags or Mexican holidays be allowed in American schools? You want to live here, learn English, become an American. Otherwise, go the fuck home.
I know. Why the fuck do we have that St. Patty's Day anyway? Go the fuck home.
At least the Irish learned to speak English when they got here.
But, as always, phx, you are on the side of destruction, so keep tearing things down.
Now, now phx you wouldn't have been born if it weren't for St. Paddy's day.
Don't you remember that photo of your Dad holding your Mom's hair while she puked outside the Blarney Stone.
Have a little respect dude.
At least the Irish learned to speak English when they got here.
Right, I get it. No to Cinco de Mayo. Yes to St. Patty's day.
Irish good, Mex bad.
Don't pay me any mind. I'm clearly on the side of "destruction" and "tearing things down."
The Irish didn't get pissed if you wore a Mexican flag shirt on St Paddy's Day. In fact a famous Irish Battalion fought on the side of the Mexicans against the United States. So the Mexicans and the Irish get along famously.
On the other hand you can't wear Orange on Paddy's day you fucking dirty Prod bastards if you don't want to catch a beating.
Yeah, that was wrong of me to suggest that - you are in favor of expanding government and budget deficits and meddling and oversight and snooping and corruption, so you do favor building up the power of the state to crush human individualism. Now go drink some more tequila, you traitorous bastard.
I assume no other nation's flag was banned.
Your assumption was wrong. Read the opinion.
Most of those Irishman were hung by the neck until they were dead after the Mexicans lost the war.
If you say so, but I would just go with traitor.
If you say so, but I would just go with traitor.
I must like Mexicans. Dirty tequila drinkers.
They're not as good as you are.
Ease off on phx, gents. It's not like he's a German nurse or anything.
I believe that instance was the largest public execution of soldiers by the US in our entire history. More Micks were lynched in that one incident then all of Crack's relatives in the history of reconstruction. Just sayn'.
When you add in the guineas who were lynched in New Orleans after that Police Chief got shot then it is definitely more than any person with a darker skin than Harry Belafonte.
As a half Irish half Italian descendant of those poor men I demand reparations. RIGTH NOW!
"I assume no other nation's flag was banned."
"Your assumption was wrong. Read the opinion."
I assumed they had at least some appreciation for multiculturalism, but I guess their real preference for totalitarianism overwhelmed that too. They will decide what gets respected and when. A great lesson for the yungins.
PHX, I didn't see anything about other flags being banned. It says: "Today’s Dariano v. Morgan Hill Unified School Dist. (9th Cir. Feb. 27, 2014) upholds a California high school’s decision to forbid students from wearing American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo."
Did I miss something?
WTF is a race traitor? Who does phx think she is coming here and advocating race war or something even more vile?
How sad that so many government run schools are such a pit of despair.
Instead of fostering acceptance and tolerance, the illiberal multi-cultists caved to base tribalism, and, in so doing, promote more division and base tribalism.
The left are really getting scary. Add this to the pile.
From the opinion:
"For another, officials did not enforce a blanket ban on American flag apparel, but instead allowed two students to return to class when it became clear that their shirts were unlikely to make them targets of violence. The school distinguished among the students based on the perceived threat level, and did not embargo all flag-related clothing."
"A group of Mexican students asked Rodriguez [the Vice Principal] why the Caucasian students "get to wear their flag out when we [sic] don’t get to wear our [sic] flag?"
bagoh20 said...
"Today’s Dariano v. Morgan Hill Unified School Dist. (9th Cir. Feb. 27, 2014) upholds a California high school’s decision to forbid students from wearing American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo."
Since the reason for this action was to avoid potential conflicts then the entire thing should have been cancelled until such time as everyone had figured out how to behave. No flags for anyone. It's a school not a public square.
ARM I don't know if that would be any better - it would be like the other side of the "heckler's veto," wouldn't it?
It doesn't seem like an ideal lesson for students either.
I doesn't rise to the level of scary radical leftwing absurdity like Harry Reid(D) standing on the senate floor and railing against 2 American citizens, threatening them, blaming them as the root of all evil,(like Hitler did the Jews) and then demanding they be silenced.
They don't have flag-banning problem. They have a gang problem.
phx said...
Since the reason for this action was to avoid potential conflicts then the entire thing should have been cancelled until such time as everyone had figured out how to behave. No flags for anyone. It's a school not a public square.
That is entirely reasonable. I agree with ARM. Of course, the school itself should still be allowed to fly the Stars and Stripes.
phx, when it comes to discipline schools should have more in common with the military than anything else. The military has figured out how to make a very diverse population coexist and it doesn't involve celebrating Cinco do Mayo. There is too much BS that goes on in schools. They should be miserable places where you go to learn hard shit that generally makes you feel completely inadequate cause 9 chances out of 10 you probably are fucking inadequate. Any school not doing this is not doing its job. I would also eliminate sports and fucking snow days.
Oops, ARM said that, not phx. I was projecting, hoping that phx wasn't such a bleeding heart through and through.
Of course, the school itself should still be allowed to fly the Stars and Stripes.
Dude listen to yourself. A school will be "allowed" to fly the Stars and Stripes. "Allowed." Something is very wrong with your thinking my friend. Please re-think this. I think you misstated that.
You must have misspoken or something.
Is it too early to think about asking some of you guys over for the Fourth this year? We'll have some beers, throw a few flags on the fire.
You go get him Troop. As soon as he's down I'll plant my boot to him.
The little worm.
""For another, officials did not enforce a blanket ban on American flag apparel, but instead allowed two students to return to class when it became clear that their shirts were unlikely to make them targets of violence."
Again, only American flags were banned, not all flags. Other national flags were not ever banned in any form, as I correctly assumed, and you misunderstood.
Why do you hate the American flag anyway? I get the impression you would have made the same call if in charge of the school. Ban just one flag, the most widely respected, and then expect that to encourage tolerance. A really dumb decision. Probably the worst call of all the possible ones, like voting for Obama twice.
phx said...
Is it too early to think about asking some of you guys over for the Fourth this year?
Another fucking day they get off school. Education is going to hell in a hand basket.
I am so offended....I am in a state of constant offendivnish....mostly because I am old, unemployable, my hood has changed, I am white, fat, unfuckable, ugly, and doughy.
My country has left me.
winter has cum...even to Arizona.
Why do you hate the American flag anyway?
Don't make me call you a moron.
Again, only American flags were banned, not all flags.
Do you know there were 32 anti-American riots last year, and only four pro-American riots. What kind of world are we living in?
I tell you, patriots! Things must change. Vote for me, Bagho20...
Troop, Here's a video at Cinco de Mayo at my kids' high school. link. Not an American flag in sight. It's a little late in the game.
You think that is funny.
Absolutely not. I'm serious.
He is a worm.
Titus said...
I am so offended....I am in a state of constant offendivnish....mostly because I am old, unemployable, my hood has changed, I am white, fat, unfuckable, ugly, and doughy.
Are you looking in the mirror, Titus?
@Titus: I'm sympathetic with you being a genetic dead end, but you need not take it out on the world.
chickenlittle said...
Troop, Here's a video at Cinco de Mayo at my kids' high school. link. Not an American flag in sight. It's a little late in the game.
This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. I would ship the lot of them off to Korea including the teachers, No fucking dancing there, just maths and exams. So much pressure you are literally willing to kill yourself just to make it stop. Those fuckers know how to run an education system.
phx said...
Absolutely not. I'm serious.
He is a worm.
@Troop: I think phx meant me being the worm. At least that's how I read the thread.
It's a long story.
"
Do you know there were 32 anti-American riots last year..."
And that was just the ones in the White House cafeteria.
@Titus: Perhaps you should volunteer to do something with kids sometime -- you know, to make things better?
I think the proper response would be:
"I guess you are right, Bagoh20. I must have misread it."
@Titus: But I'm still grateful to you for linking that "Lenny's Inferno" link the other day. That was some cool shit back in the day, eh?
There is nothing wrong with celebrating you heritage. Especially if it is your American Heritage.
I hope those kids display the flag during the Cinco bullshit.
But I doubt it. They would probably be convicted of bullying for saying the Pledge of Allegiance.
For another, officials did not enforce a blanket ban
Dammit, my ancestors swam to America just for the blankets. And now they're almost banned??
Bastards.
They should have given those blankets to the Mexicans. Infected with smallpox.
Back in the day the Americans knew how to do things.
But I doubt it. They would probably be convicted of bullying for saying the Pledge of Allegiance.
I go to my share of school events there. I watch things closely. I wrote in detail of such an event in the TOP comments but I can't find it now.
The Pledge is always recited before events. The cool thing is that all of the kids participate but very few parents of the Mexican persuasion do. So if the kids are learning disrespect, it's not from each other nor the school.
HERE is the flagpole situation at the nearby Mission San Luis Rey de Franca (founded in 1798 -- TV "Zorro" episodes were filmed there). This a Catholic mission (Franciscan) and is still quite active.
Note the equal heights of the American, Mexican, and (gasp!) Spanish flags.
The only applause you will hear are from the liberal enablers of their behavior with the corporate scum bags who profit off of their cheap labor.
What would you expect?
No less. But its heartening to see the dynamics of how kids Americanize.
It's actually a step better than the days when the California liberals thought it a good idea to have all Spanish language schools. Sure that would have meant instant job opportunities for Spanish-only speaking reconquistadors, and would have alienated many members of the teachers' unions.
FTR, I am totally on the side of immigrants learning English as their primary language. I say that as someone who knows a couple few languages and is married to a European immigrant.
I am totally on the side of immigrants who come to this country and want to be Americans. Proud of their heritage but proud to be Americans.
If not I would give them two behind the ear and ship them back to where they came from.
Why are American flags bad, shouldn't it be French flags that are banned that day?
How about shirts celebrating San Jacinto?
I agree with ARM about a no message-tshirts policy. This sort of thing is one of many reasons why school have uniforms.
And about the "pledge of allegiance." Sorry, but I don't like it. I'll recite it, and don't think it's a federal case, but...
It's worded all wrong. Why should we focus on the flag?
How about this?
"I pledge allegiance to the Republic, over which this honorable banner flies: one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all."
This is what
goes on in government run schools.
Evi @12:20
Why are American flags bad, shouldn't it be French flags that are banned that day?
Most government run schools don't exactly teach history.
Eugene Volokh sums it up perfectly:
"This is a classic “heckler’s veto” — thugs threatening to attack the speaker, and government officials suppressing the speech to prevent such violence. “Heckler’s vetoes” are generally not allowed under First Amendment law; the government should generally protect the speaker and threaten to arrest the thugs, not suppress the speaker’s speech. But under Tinker‘s “forecast substantial disruption” test, such a heckler’s veto is indeed allowed.
The 9th Circuit decision may thus be a faithful application of Tinker, and it might be that Tinker sets forth the correct constitutional rule here. Schools have special responsibilities to educate their students and to protect them both against violence and against disruption of their educations. A school might thus have the discretion to decide that it will prevent disruption even at the cost of letting thugs suppress speech.
Yet even if the judges are right, the situation in the school seems very bad. Somehow, we’ve reached the point that students can’t safely display the American flag in an American school, because of a fear that other students will attack them for it — and the school feels unable to prevent such attacks (by punishing the threateners and the attackers, and by teaching students tolerance for other students’ speech). Something is badly wrong, whether such an incident happens on May 5 or any other day.
And this is especially so because behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated. The school taught its students a simple lesson: If you dislike speech and want it suppressed, then you can get what you want by threatening violence against the speakers. The school will cave in, the speakers will be shut up, and you and your ideology will win. When thuggery pays, the result is more thuggery. Is that the education we want our students to be getting?"
The menaces of our time: charter schools, flag t-shirts, devoutly Christian bakers.
ARM said ...
I would ship the lot of them off to Korea including the teachers, No fucking dancing there, just maths and exams. So much pressure you are literally willing to kill yourself just to make it stop. Those fuckers know how to run an education system.
It is going to be a great day. I agree with you. Lived in Korea for about 3 years and your description of education mentality there is on the money. And it works.
chickenlittle said...
HERE is the flagpole situation at the nearby Mission ... Note the equal heights of the American, Mexican, and (gasp!) Spanish flags.
Pedantry alert! Level of flags, on top, when flown in a horizontal array is not important, the fact the American Flag is flown on the left pole, on top, (when facing the poles) is correct protocol. I live in a neighborhood where multiple flags get flown and most abide the protocol, especially the refugees.
In short the mIssion display is respectful of its location in the USA.
Fr Martin Fox said...
I agree with ARM about a no message-tshirts policy
With all due respect father there is a difference between a pro-Obama t-shirt and one that celebrates the American flag. I will wager a million dollars that the teachers in this high school would have no problem with a Che t-shirt.
My grandmother came over from Italy in 1902. I am old enough to know actual immigrants from Italy and Ireland and Poland and Russia and Germany who came to this country in search of freedom. They loved their new home. They sent their sons to war to die to defend it. They proudly and reverently flew their American flags.
"Mi Casa Bella" My Beautiful Home. What they called America.
Oh and another thing Father. I had much the same arguments with these type when Andres Serrano decided to put a crucifix in a glass of urine. They said "What's the big deal? It's just a piece of wood with an action figure on it?" That was protected free speech that people like ARM and phx have no problem with at all. But an American flag t-shirt should be banned because it upsets the Mexicans.
Is that what we have come to in this country?
What would George Washington think? Besty Ross? Nathan Hale? Abe Lincoln and all the boys who died at Gettysburg? The sons of immigrants who died at Normandy and Anzio and Iwo Jima?
It is a perfect illustration of where liberals and lawyers and judges heads are at.
To drum-beat and heart-beat,
A soldier marches by:
There is color in his cheek,
There is courage in his eye,
Yet to drum-beat and heart-beat
In a moment he must die.
By starlight and moonlight,
He seeks the Briton's camp;
He hears the rustling flag,
And the armed sentry's tramp;
And the starlight and moonlight
His silent wanderings lamp.
With slow tread and still tread,
He scans the tented line;
And he counts the battery guns
By the gaunt and shadowy pine;
And his slow tread and still tread
Gives no warning sign.
The dark wave, the plumed wave,
It meets his eager glance;
And it sparkles 'neath the stars,
Like the glimmer of a lance--
A dark wave, a plumed wave,
On an emerald expanse.
A sharp clang, a steel clang,
And terror in the sound!
For the sentry, falcon-eyed,
In the camp a spy hath found;
With a sharp clang, a steel clang,
The patriot is bound.
With calm brow, steady brow,
He listens to his doom;
In his look there is no fear,
Nor a shadow-trace of gloom;
But with calm brow and steady brow
He robes him for the tomb.
In the long night, the still night,
He kneels upon the sod;
And the brutal guards withhold
E'en the solemn Word of God!
In the long night, the still night,
He walks where Christ hath trod.
'Neath the blue morn, the sunny morn,
He dies upon the tree;
And he mourns that he can lose
But one life for Liberty;
And in the blue morn, the sunny morn,
His spirit-wings are free.
But his last words, his message-words,
They burn, lest friendly eye
Should read how proud and calm
A patriot could die,
With his last words, his dying words,
A soldier's battle-cry.
From the Fame-leaf and Angel-leaf,
From monument and urn,
The sad of earth, the glad of heaven,
His tragic fate shall learn;
And on Fame-leaf and Angel-leaf
The name of HALE shall burn.
Francis Miles Finch
That Ragged Old Flag will always fly for Real Americans.
So Cinco De Mayo is recognized as an official American holiday now that requires that we suspend free speech of displaying the flag to keep those who celebrate Cinco De Mayo from getting butthurt and preventing racial tensions? Who the fuck all runs this country anymore?
Not patriotic Americans.
It is run by lawyers, liberals and protected classes.
Trooper York said...
That Ragged Old Flag will always fly for Real Americans.
Old thoughts on the flag: link
That was protected free speech that people like ARM and phx have no problem with at all.
This is the problem with people like Trooper. They put words in your mouth you never uttered and then think they've won the debate.
They can't get to first base and they think they've hit a home run.
I think the proper response would be:
"I guess you are right, Bagoh20. I must have misread it."
Again, from the opinion:
"A group of Mexican students asked Rodriguez [the Vice Principal] why the Caucasian students "get to wear their flag out when we [sic] don’t get to wear our [sic] flag?"
This says that at least some students from both groups were told not to wear their flag. We didn't hear about enforcement against the other (Mexican) party because they did not bring the suit. Only the ones with United States flags brought suit.
Now, I think YOUR proper response should be:
"Oh. I guess you are right, phx." but I suspect it will be on the level of what you already said, "Why do you hate the American flag, phx?"
Until a couple of decades ago, the students could have actually been arrested for disrespecting the American flag by making clothing out of it.
Trooper:
I get your distinction between an Obama tshirt and an American flag shirt.
But my point remains: a school both has the right to say, no message tshirts, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable policy.
It's not a negative comment on the flag. It's because when you're at school, you don't get to wear the clothes you like. It's sort of like work.
By the way, I'm old enough to remember when it was considered inappropriate to wear the flag as an article of clothing. And I'd apply that to tshirts.
Because the flag, I was taught, was always to be treated with respect. How often do you think those flag tshirts get disposed of, with respect, when they get worn out?
With all due respect Father but if all political speech in the school is banned by wearing uniforms like I used to do in Sacred Hearts then I agree with you. I don't agree with you if only pro-American or Christian t-shirts are banned. Tolerance is way overrated. Because they don't tolerate us. That is what it is all about.
I didn't put words in your mouth phx. I just feel that you don't respect the flag and what it stands for. That is why you are taking the side of the Mexicans. Just like the court. Just like the lawyers.
Do you think the American kids can display the flag on Cinco De Taco or not? Simple question. Or do you think we have to accommodate the sensibilities of illegal aliens. What say you?
It was not just t-shirts. It was the display of the American Flag. Ban all t-shirts. Fine. But American kids can fly the American flag. Every day.
BECAUSE THIS IS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!
IT IS NOT MEXICO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trooper:
Well, I am not advocating a selective ban on only *some* messages. I am advocating, in your words, "Ban all t-shirts."
As far as political speech in schools...
You can't ban kids from talking to each other about politics, nor should they. And I'm all for other opportunities for political speech in school -- particularly high school.
If this had been a school I was in charge of, I'd have been happy to have a Cinco de Mayo, a Vietnamese New Year, and whatever else connected with students in the school. But without the thuggery.
I was in a parish with a school for seven years; we occasionally had a student or two who wasn't from there: one Polish boy for awhile, a couple of Hispanic kids, and, if memory serves, a Vietnamese girl. I urged the principal to see how these kids could introduce the cultures they came from to the rest of the students, because most of our kids didn't know much about the world outside their county and state.
In short, the problem is the attitude.
Are you a Jesuit father because you argue like one?
The question before the congregation is whether or not American kids can bring an American flag and display it on Cinco de Mayo. The court said no. That is wrong in so many ways that it is as hard to measure as how many angels dance on a pinhead like those judges sport. In this school a kid talking about his "American Caucasian" culture would be shouted down by illegal immigrants and the lefty Sandinista union school teachers who enable them.
Flying and displaying an American flag is not political speech in an American school. It is the right of every American. A right that many have fought and died for in all of our countries wars.
Would you throw that away to protect the sensibilities for people who have no respect for our country and it's history that is symbolized by that flag?
I'd be interested in what some Californians think on this subject. My view from a distance is that a large portion of California is already considered land to be returned to Mexico, in the minds of many (not all) Mexican immigrants, legal or otherwise,..e.g. it is Mexican land unjustly taken, yada yada.
I live near a large Mexican community, adjacent actually, and I attend services in a church that is 75%+ Mexican. However, I have not noticed anyone suggesting they'd want to take Detroit back.
Y'all in California are just lucky I guess. :)
The thing is Ari nobody wants Detroit.
Too many black people.
Just sayn'
If Dave Bing were awake he would say that is racist.
I am truly puzzled by how great grand Aztlan is divined to include all of Comancheria as historically Mexican. You got to love history as invented from a void.
Almost as funny as gang banging in Syria
Trooper ... nobody wants "Aztlan" either unless those American flag fliers are still there to make things run and pay for it.
Actually Troop...the problem of late is not enough black people, or people of any hue...everyone with the means, black, white, brown, whatever, has moved out. Can't run much on the jobless remainder. I do notice no one is objecting to the small amounts of "gentrification" that has occurred ... mostly in locations that had no resident people for the past two decades.
Trooper ...this is kind of fun...Dave Bing has retired back to his upscale home in Franklin Village as far as I know. Meanwhile, Detroit has a new mayor, a white Mick named Duggan.
Even better, he ran in the primary as a "write-in" candidate and garnered 52% of the primary vote, and later 55% of the election vote...in Detroit!
Troop:
No, I'm not a Jesuit; and I'm not sure if arguing like one is a good or bad thing.
In any case...you won't like this, but -- I'm not really following what you're claiming about the "right" of students to wave flags in school. I'm trying to think through exactly what you're proposing.
A teacher is conducting a lesson on, say, Dicken's "Tale of Two Cities." Does a student in the classroom have a right to wave his flag then? Does she ask to be recognized, or just do it?
I don't really think that's what you're claiming, is it? So just how and when do students exercise this right to carry and wave the American flag at school? During gym? Lunch? Recess (in an elementary school)?
It is quite simple Father. When the illegal immigrants dress up in their serapes and sombero's and walk around waving the Mexican flag and proclaiming that La Raza has reconquered the lands stolen by the Gringos....then American kids can wave their flag and be proud of their nation. Which is exactly what happened here. Ban both demonstrations not just the Americans. I think if I was a student and wanted to make a statement by putting a small American flag on my desk during Cinco De Taco than I should be able to do that. But they should be able to carry the flag at recess which is what this is about right?
Oh and on a side note....do have a tambourine at your folk Mass on Sunday Father? That would explain it. Just sayn'
What the unionized Sandainista school teachers have lost is the certain knowledge that our American culture, values and traditions are far and away superior to any other. ANY OTHER ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME!
All cultures and traditions are not equal. The American one is better. If you don't want to teach that you should be fired. There are too many women studies diversity hires with a degree in comparative sociology that want to teach that other countries and political or economic systems are better. If they feel that than they should move to Sochi and use their toilets. Otherwise they should get fired.
I mean what the fuck is there to admire about Mexico anyway? Drug cartels? Lawless police? A dictatorial government that ignores the law to do what it wants.
Wait a minute? Is that Mexico or the US? Well you get the idea.
Sorry for cursing Father.
I thought this was about wearing shirts that have flags or representations of flags on them. How did it morph into waving flags on the playgrounds?
I bleed red, white and blue, but I also think it reasonable that school officials ban the wearing of all flags when students are in school. It isn't nationalism as much as it is the flag colors morphing into gang colors with the resultant violence, anger, etc., between groups, which does not belong in a school.
Trooper:
I'm not your enemy. And I don't recall advocating the demonstration for La Raza that you describe. What you're describing is a school out of control.
It is a school out of control when an American kid can't wear an t-shirt with an American flag without getting a beatdown from illegal immigrants getting a free education on our dime. Did they ban the display of the Mexican flag and Mexican flag t-shirts? Are Shamrock T-shirts banned on Paddy's day? If that is the case than fair enough. Or is it that the wearing of an American flag t-shirt in an American school on any day of the year should be prohibited? The job of the school is to make it safe for an American to be an American. Not to cater to a vocal and criminal element under threat of violence. That is what we are talking about.
If it cause gang riots to wear an American flag than expel and incarcerate anyone who starts trouble. Period.
When I was in school you got a beat down for stepping out of line. Of course it was the Nuns that did that and they were right. We need a lot more of that if we are ever going to turn it around. Sadly we will not.
I would never consider you an enemy Father. Just misguided. Terribly misguided.
You of course must follow your conscience. Even if means we have tambourines and guitars instead of the organist playing "Ave Maria."
What belongs in the schools is teachers that teach that America is the best and our system of government, constitution and culture is superior to all others. You can study other cultures and political systems all you want. Just as long as you teach that ours is the best. Ever. All the time. Always.
USA,USA,USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trooper:
If you knew even a little about me, you'd realize how ridiculous your reference to "tambourines and guitars" is.
Since you want to argue with someone who is defending the La Raza stuff you're referring to, I'm not your guy. I was attempting to enunciate some general principles.
With this comment I'm disengaging.
Fair enough Father. I don't want to argue either. I was just teasing you with some priestly humor. Sorry if I offended you.
But just to be clear that I hate the guitar Mass. It sounds like you do too. At least on that we can agree.
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