Mike Rowe on the very same topic, sort of: link
'Today, skilled trades are in demand. In fact, there are 3 million jobs out there that companies are having a hard time filling. So we thought that skilled trades could do with a PR campaign,' he said with a smile. 'So we took the same idea, went ahead and vandalized it. Work smart AND hard.'What Rowe is saying is that the 4-year college degree is not for everyone. I was halfway through high school when I saw my father lose his job as union printer at Madison Newspapers, Inc. That was over 35 years ago -- right at the beginning of the 40-year period Rowe puts his finger on. My reaction then was to buck up and actually get into college -- the first one in my family -- which is something that you only hear minorities touting these days. That move worked for a long time. But things have changed, especially for young people and older (50+) people. We face unprecedented changes, and nobody has a long term solution.
28 comments:
“Don’t rule out working with your hands. It does not preclude using your head.” Andy Rooney
Not only is a four year degree not for everyone, but for some people it will seriously cut into your potential. Let's face it, what you get is not that useful for a smart person with ambition. You lose 4 years, plus the time paying back the loan, plus the time working for someone, because that's what it teaches you to do, then you have to start all over again if you have the potential to do more. Today it really is 2 years of high school and 2 years of specific learning that you could probably get better in a job or teaching yourself. People need to learn how to educate themselves.
Universities used to house the information and expertise, but they don't have that exclusive anymore. They are like an expensive gym membership where you pay to get something you can get for free, unless the paperwork with the signatures is what you're after.
It really is like a gym, where most people would just not do the work without the structure, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's damned expensive.
(1) Link's broken. Fixing it sounds like it might be a dirty job.
(2) If I could have gotten a job out of high school that paid a living wage I never would have gone to college.
(3) I like Mike Rowe. I find him entertaining and I'm glad someone prominent is getting that message out but working in the trades isn't for everyone, either.
You have to offer a service or skill some is willing to pay money for. Plus fifty professionals are doing just fine, from a working career of skill building.
Entry level sucks. Colleges, with the exception of technical education (engineering, computer science, hard sciences, etc.) do not train you to do much. A liberal arts degree is fine, but not if it puts you $150K or more in debt (which is the point Mike Rowe is making).
A young ambitious person could do better being an entrepreneur as a contractor. But that requires being smart about that too. Construction is high reward but high risk.
The trades are not for everyone, but there are a lot of boys falling through the gaps in high school education, who would be perfect in technical trades. But they need to be shown that being successful as a plumber, contractor, electrician, etc. is really no different than being successful as a doctor or lawyer.
Fixed the link. Thanks Fruit Bat.
There are a lot of states that allow you to earn an AA in high school, then complete your bachelor degree in two years at a state school. That is a smart way to go, especially if you focus your classes on useful skills such as business.
Provided of course you do not get this guy as your professor.
The long term solution is a skill that is always in demand: plumber; electrician; auto mechanic; carpenter; etc., etc.
" but working in the trades isn't for everyone, either."
Of course, and we need highly educated people, but the message everywhere for young people is that you are a failure unless you go to college. It's just false, and it hurts people.
BTW, the guy I hired a while back with the BA in Business didn't work out. He applied to be a janitor, but we gave him an opportunity to learn Computer aided design and machine programming hands on with great potential, but he just didn't want it bad enough. He had been sold a bill of goods about his degree, and it's not working out. He now has a debt and no job, and he's not an exception. All that time and money wasted.
Also like a gym, the university really is dedicated to getting your membership fee, not your success. That and having a nice place to show off to potential future members: nice showers, new equipment, juice bar, impressive decorating, advertising and celebrity testimonials to get top dollar. That's all fine, but as a customer you have to consider what you are paying for and whether it's of value to you.
Going to a university is about signaling. The better the university you got to, the better signal you send. "I'm one of you! Hire me!" Other than get the degree, what you do at the university is largely of secondary consequence.
And don't make any mistake. There are more people out of work with college degrees these days. But that starts at the bottom and works its way up. I doubt those with degrees from Harvard and Yale are suffering much, because their degrees still send the strongest signals.
You need a reason to go to college - like acquiring specific knowledge and skills that you can use to work and earn your way through life in your chosen profession, whatever that might be.
Don't borrow money to go there on the expectation that good things are going to happen to you after graduation just because you have a college degree of some kind.
Also note that these days plumbers, etc., need to be quite knowledgeable and skillful in handling cash flow, reporting and paying taxes due - Fed., State, and local - choosing medical insurance plans (!), etc. and so forth, forever and ever.
If colleges will not teach these things at a reasonable price, you still have to acquire the knowledge and skills somewhere.
Mike Rowe reminds me of my younger brother. Six years younger and the stuff he knows amazes me. Went to plenty of school but not college. Exceedingly capable fellow, resourceful as H-E-double missing global warming data points, and I mean it. The thing is, I know what a klutz he is. And he has seriously cut himself on the table saw that always scared the living piss out of me. So imagining him around or inside serious electrical situations where one careless move means BZZZZZZIT ZAP SNAP really does scare me. He is not careful enough. I do not like him talking about the things he gets up to because of all the dangerous dummkopfery I know about that precedes it. And he's impulsive. Very. I just mentioned the glories of learning hang gliding, the wonders of the beginning steps, and boom he bought a hang glider and took up gliding outside of SF. When I visited he introduced me to his friends, and I go, "Who is this guy?" and James goes, "He's one of my hang gliding buddies." His impulsiveness and apparent carelessness scare me.
Chip, in an earlier age, your brother might well have done something important, or at least interesting, simply by not bothering to think about why it was a bad idea.
Unfortunately, this is not that earlier age. Just don't talk up the glories of tough professions like soldier of fortune, or accountancy.
Hagar wrote:
You need a reason to go to college - like acquiring specific knowledge and skills that you can use to work and earn your way through life in your chosen profession, whatever that might be.
Don't borrow money to go there on the expectation that good things are going to happen to you after graduation just because you have a college degree of some kind.
That's for the rubes. THe connected people know it's all about getting into and out of the right college. You really think Chelsea is some kind of hardcore genius type? Nope. With her degrees I'd be shocked if she remembered how to solve a quadratic equation, much less a differential equation.
But that doesn't matter. She has fabulous degrees, a fabulous name, and fabulous connections. So she will never want for work, and may well start getting elected to reasonably important jobs here soon, regardless of any ability or aptitude, or lack of any real accomplishment in her past resume.
It's time to acknowledge that 21 century America is a completely rigged game, and nothing you can do, save have great connections, can guarantee you even a reasonable job in life.
Most likely, you're going to be one of the serfs, hacking out you car on the side and renting that spare room to God-only-knows-who hoping to make ends meet. It's the future the elites have mapped out for us, and everything is coming to pass as they have foreseen.
Another article on this concept can be found
HERE
I link to a link about the article rather than the article, because Hsu contains a link to a prior piece he had on it, and the conversation will likely be entertaining.
Oh, and "SES" pops up quickly in the comments. That's Socio-Economic Status. Signaling one's SES is what college is really about in our time. Don't be confused by what it used to be.
Also, many of the comments at Sailer's blog (my first link above) are interesting, too.
Longing for long-term solutions is a waste of time.
All we can do is to roll with the punches. Nothing is ever guaranteed.
And, why should it be?
ST, you comment reminds me of something that happened one season on Survivor, I forget which. (I haven't watched it in years.) At the start, the sides were divided into their two tribes. One side sets off and finds a beautiful site to set up camp. It's clear of debris or undergrowth, it's flat and it's sandy. Best of all, it's right next to a small stream, so they won't have to hike up and down the steep slopes on either side of the stream to get their water. I believe there was some concern about hauling the water up the slops once the rainy season started, which would be soon.
Seriously, it was this large, flat, sandy piece of land at a bend in a stream. Perfect!
I won't bother to recount the inevitable. After all, there are no guarantees in life, what could they have done?
" His impulsiveness and apparent carelessness scare me."
Relax. It's not like he went to Harvard and became President of the United States. Being impulsive and careless in that job would be some scary shit.
Impulsive and careless are relative qualities defined by the observer. Being very careful all the time is the most impulsive and knee jerk of reactions, with the terrible side effect of living a long time in that prison yet with no guarantee of safety.
It's like your doctor telling you you will be paralyzed for life, but otherwise you're fine and should live a long time.
I say this mostly to slap myself in the face, and try to rally, because at 55, it's now clear to me that my biggest failing has always been fearfulness and caution, and I just can't shake it no matter how hard I try.
I have very rarely failed at anything, and that should give me great confidence, but it just doesn't. I get more risk averse with every passing year, which seems backward to me, as I have less and less to lose. My balls are shrinking, and I think I need therapy. Now that's a dirty job.
I get more risk averse with every passing year, which seems backward to me, as I have less and less to lose. My balls are shrinking, and I think I need therapy.
We all feel that way.
Chip - You need to send your little brother the "Dumb ways to Die" video.
CHickie - you love all things German so much. Why not learn from them? Kurtzarbeit and actually training for the trades that are finally back in demand here (i.e. with apprenticeships) would go a long way to stabilizing our labor markets. Hell, think of how many government workers you could lay off just by doing those two things! Be creative! Solutions exist for the destructive policies that Republicans long for so you might as well go all in with solutions like these also, no?
Glad I scrolled back up...I thought if was chick saying he had shrinkage and thought he might need therapy.
You don't understand - the water is cold.
Brrrr.
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