"Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [I want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."That is the best part. It's all you're having of the trash talk so no point in clicking over to espn.go for more of that, there isn't any more trash talk over there, but there is more on the suspension and how the story surfaced and multiple sources and such.
Richie, where are you?
Over here.
Oh. Didn't recognize you.
That's because I'm Escondito.
65 comments:
Um, so what's the problem here again?
Gone in 60 seconds.
Incognito is a jerk, been widely known for a long time. I'm only annoyed by all the faux-outrage over these revelations.
Sports media has turned into one big fake outragefest. "How could so and so call Troy Aikman a queer?!?!?! Outrageous!" Suddenly all the East Coast media Elite have forgotten that most of these professional athletes come from a very different place than they did.
Brave words, Troop.
True words phx.
We beat them like a drum the last few times we played them.
I think the Giants might run the table and sneak into the playoffs.
That ain't shit. This was a grown man talking to a another huge and grown man. Alec Baldwin talks like that to his young daughter and he gets TV shows afterward. And Baldwin's job is to be thoughtful, funny and entertaining. Incognito's job is to hurt people with great physical violence. I don't get the outrage, or even why it's any of my business what a grown man says to another in private.
Wait I thought this was the Green Bay thread.
What is he a pussy?
Incognito plays right beside Martin on the line. It would be very easy for Incognito to 'accidentally' fall into Martin's legs and damage his legs and career.
And it isn't like gang-like behavior isn't uncommon in the league. Mike Pouncy is also being investigated for being a part of this, as well as his potential involvement in smuggling guns for Aaron Hernandez.
This isn't the usual hazing stuff, it goes beyond that. And for those saying that he should handle it himself: How many of you are willing to stand up to three hundred plus pounds of muscle and brain damage? How many are willing to stand up to 650 or 700 pounds of it? More? (Incognito's father has apparently been running sock puppets to attack Martin on various Dolphin message boards. A charming family.) How many are willing to put their families at risk?
The problem is that team atmospheres have conflicting rules. You're supposed to do things for the betterment of your team and teammates, and you are supposed to keep your mouth shut about anything that goes wrong. Add to this the need to establish hierarchies (rookies must submit to veterans, veterans must submit to team leaders, etc.) and you're really asking for trouble. Thus you end up with cheating scandals at places like West Point, or situations like this in locker rooms.
It's easily predictable that things like this will happen. Figuring out where they will happen and how to prevent them is another matter entirely.
And the Hell of it is, these kinds of things actually do work to create well-functioning teams under adverse circumstances - if the internal conflicts of the underlying philosophy can be well-managed. If not you get things like this, or officers getting fragged by their own men in combat. No shock to people following the Dolphins in recent years that they can't seem to manage it well.
This whole thing is a sick joke. If a football player can't stand up to hazing and abuse then he doesn't belong in the league.
That is what is for.
This is just another attempt at the continuing feminization of America.
What's next? Every team will have to be half female to meet some affirmative action quota?
Enough already. This guy is just a pussy who should not be in the league.
Icepick got it.
He has to stand up for himself. He doesn't have to get in a fight. He can just laugh it off and go about his business. Thousands of players have done it through the years.
I mean look at Aaron Rodgers. He gets teased all the time because he is going to gay marry Ryan Braun. And he still is out there getting hurt and losing games.
Trooper, if you could switch bodies with Martin, I'd still take Martin in a fight, you with his hulking body, he with your damaged heart and soft, older body. He plays a very violent gang for a living.
And Martin isn't the only person on the Dolphins that has been damaged by Incognito and his gang. They've sucked a lot of money out of players at the bottom of the wage scale in the last couple of years. This isn't hazing, this is gang activity.
Once we surrender football to the liberal pussies that run this country then it is all over.
Change the names of the teams so they don't offend anybody. Stop hazing the rookies. Stop hitting and just tap people like in flag football.
When will ever stop?
It's a coworker calling another coworker at home off the clock to leave threats in a poisoned message. Of course he's fired.
I have to disagree. Listen there have always been out and out criminals and thugs in the NFL. This is nothing new. Criminals make the best players. You have to dope them up and send them out to play.
The best running back the Dolphins ever had is a convicted dope dealer.
That's the game.
Martin isn't getting taped to the goal post and having his head shaved. He's not being asked to pick up a check for a few guys eating beer and steak at The Outback, or even Shula's. He has someone with gang connections threatening to kill him and his family, threatening to end his career, extorting money from him and others (sticking rookies for a $30,000 night out is extreme, unless the rookie has an Alex Smith sized rookie deal, and no one has those any more. Hell, that would be extreme even if the rookie had an Alex Smith sized rookie deal.)
This isn't the usual run of the mill stuff, any more than what Vick was doing was placing small bets at the local dog racing track to see which grey hound was going to get closest to catching the electronic rabbit.
The only criteria is if the player can help you win.
See Taylor, Lawrence.
See Tatum, Jack.
See Lewis, Ray.
And on and on and on.
Yes, clearly Incognito was helping the Ds win. I think they won every fourth game.
Guys like that are not very good for team sports.
Trooper, I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to act like a retard with brain damage, which is what you're doing. Hazing is making a guy stand on the table and sing for his supper with his dick out. It's not threatening to kill the guy, or dive into his knees and end his career, or rape his dog and kill his mother.
Oh, none of the stuff currently being discussed about Martin specifically counts as rookie hazing, as this has all happened after Martin's first year in the league was over.
If he isn't helping he would be cut. That's called capitalism.
Maybe they if they thought this shrinking violet is better for their team they would have accommodate his gentle trusting ways.
Interesting series of posts. No wonder I stopped watching football, college or pro, since that little revelation in College Station, PA, in 2011. A decade of butt fucking pedophilia and no one in college football knew, no one in the pros either? Right. Sure. It's just one of those guy locker room things. F' that.
Q is will Martin go back?
I think this may be gay bashing. Just a hunch.
It's called hazing. A rite of passage that strengthens group solidarity. How? The veteran hazing the rookie was once a rookie himself who had to endure abuse. Next year the rookie, having graduated to veteran status, will haze next year's rookies. That's the bond -- having endured abuse.
Listen to tell you the truth I am not really defending what wen on. It if truly as bad as this guy claims then he has actionable things that he can have these guys arrested. I just don't believe it.
Time will tell.
But criminals and thugs are what the NFL is built on. If you don't realize that then you don't know the history of the league.
Look up Conrad Dobler or Deacon Jones and tell me about going after somebodies legs.
I think you might be right Nick..
Plus everyone knows Dolphins are rapists. Just sayn'
It if truly as bad as this guy claims then he has actionable things that he can have these guys arrested.
Heh. Probably the "actionable things" are more lucrative if they're civil actions brought against Miami Dolphins Inc. as well as Richie Incognito.
But we'll see.
Some serious rage issues... geez.
Incognito and Rob Ford whining about the pussies who can't take a joke, smokin' a crack pipe together.
I kind of agree with Trooper on this one, which is why I rarely watch football any more, other than the super bowl.
Trooper doesn't even agree with Trooper on this one.
Look I think phx and Icepick are just racists because if they want to keep criminals and gangbangers out of the league then there would be no black or Latin players in the league. Just sayn'
On the other hand I am happy to have criminal minorities in the league if they can help my team win.
I think Trooper's point is that football is an inherently violent, borderline criminal activity and attempts to 'reform' it are doomed to failure. I agree with this. I anticipate football will gradually die, much like boxing.
But criminals and thugs are what the NFL is built on. If you don't realize that then you don't know the history of the league.
Spare me. I grew up watching football in the South. I know who plays the game, and why, and how much gets forgiven. This is beyond the pale by those standards too.
True story: Among the many charmers Steve Spurrier had on his UF teams was a guy that on one occasion got upset with his pregnant girlfriend, and so he hung her out a third or fourth story window and threatened to srop her for several minutes. (I don't think people have any idea how strong these guys are if they haven't worked out with them, or played against them. I've done the former, and would be scared to do that latter.)
End result? The guy got suspended for one game, I believe against some school like Vanderbilt, which at that time wasn't as tough as the intramural squad from Our Sisters of Perpetual Sorrow Nunnery.
Later that year, on the team trip to (I believe) the Sugar Bowl, two players got into a fight with each other during a team dinner.
End result? Both players were IMMEDIATELY kicked off the team, right there in the dinning room, sent with team officials to pack their bags, put on the first flight back to Gainesville, where they were escorted to their dorm rooms to get their stuff and leave campus immediately.
What's the lesson here? Stuff that tears down the team will not be tolerated. Other things will be tolerated, if you are a good enough player.
So Ray Lewis gets a pass for being an accomplice to murder (at least) because he wasn't hurting the team directly, and he was worth the trouble.
One can argue that Terrell Owens may have been the best wide receiver in the league for his generation. (I don't quite buy it myself, but a credible argument can be made for it.) People put up with a lot of shit from him. But not an indefinite amount, which is why he spent several years bouncing from team to team. The Hell of it was TO wasn't even a truly BAD MAN. He didn't run over anyone with his car. He didn't gamble on games. He didn't run a dog fighting ring, or smuggle guns for his old gang. He was just a prima donna "LOOK AT ME!" guy that caused endless distractions. Bad for the team, but a great player, so he lasted a little longer than he should.
Incognito is bad for his team. The entire left side of the offensive line just vanished. How is that helping? And the starting center could well be the next guy to go for his involvement. How is that helping his team?
And yes, guys have gone after other players legs before. But you haven't mentioned one guy who went after his own teammates legs, or threatened to do so. That also doesn't help the team.
By the standards of the NFL, Incognito should go. Martin isn't likely to get a job anywhere soon either.
And this still has nothing to do with rookie hazing, because Martin wasn't a rookie when these event took place.
And even concerning the rookie hazing: Making guys who make $300,000 a year (before taxes, before agent fees, etc.) pick up $30,000 restaurant tabs also isn't hazing: That's extortion.
What happened to boxing was the fixing got too obvious and too high level. Yet, professional wrestling is wildly popular. I don't understand my fellow man at all.
Bagoh, What happened to boxing is it was taken over by two grifters, Arum and King.
The People rest their case. Damn, Icepick. Well fucking said.
Why you such a knucklehead other times? Ah, never mind. You're all right with me. Any of those fucking libtards start bullying you, you tell me about it. I know how to take care of that shit. Now let me give you a Dutch head rub or Indian arm burn, you little shit.
Trooper's being inflammatory, but he has a point. The idea that the kind of language and attitude coming from Incognito is an isolated incident in the NFL (or NBA or NHL or MLB) is wishful thinking.
There are plenty of others like him.
TO's cancer didn't become a liability until he got older.
Birches you are probably right but I'll bet that's just the way change comes. The winds of doctrine say it's time a make a change, they grab some unlucky malefactor among several who all have their dick out, and they bust him down. It sends a chilling effect through the lines that there's a new sheriff in town. The conservatives all bitch and moan but a change for the better is ultimately made, even if it seems totally unfair to the Icognitos.
Man that's just the life process. Why fight it?
We'll see what happens, phx. I disagree. The Dolphins recognized Incognito as a liability and got rid of him. They bowed to the media maelstrom because it suits their purposes. But where's Riley Cooper these days? The media spent just as much ink on him as Incognito.
Birches said...
Trooper's being inflammatory, but he has a point. The idea that the kind of language and attitude coming from Incognito is an isolated incident in the NFL (or NBA or NHL or MLB) is wishful thinking.
The NBA or MBL do not require the same attitude to play that the NFL requires. The risk of serious physical injury is much less in these sports. This doesn't mean that there aren't thugs in these sports but the aren't an intrinsic element in the way that they are in the NFL or boxing.
Incognito seems to have taken it just a bit too far.
On the other hand, I would be open a hazing ritual for any new commenters at Lem's. I suggest Sixty Grit and Ritmo as team leaders. It would build group morale and let the new guys know that this ain't no pussy ass law professor blog.
phx said...
The conservatives all bitch and moan but a change for the better is ultimately made, even if it seems totally unfair to the Icognitos.
Attempts to reform the sport will inevitably fail. Boxing has never been 'reformed', it doesn't make any sense.
Attempts to reform the sport will inevitably fail. Boxing has never been 'reformed', it doesn't make any sense.
Well it's kind of a cool game to watch. There's more financial incentive to reform football than there was boxing - a greater number of smart minds. Boxing never achieved the heights that the NFL has.
On the other hand mebbe you're right. I wouldn't care one way or another. I prefer chess. And don't forget the WCC starts THIS WEEK!
Carlsen and Anand. Now those guys are tough.
"Hazing" and team rivalry, like sports in general, are just more human social rituals that I do not understand and do not care about as long as they don't affect me.
Youse guys have convinced me.
Back to leather helmets and only gentlemen to play football.
What could go wrong?
And you are totally wrong.
I am always stupid.
But never in doubt.
The NFL will stomp on this so hard they should get at least three or four penalty flags for doing so.
And that is if you apply the old rules.
This is a perfect storm of stupidity. Incognito leaves a voice message that embarrasses the league. He is not in trouble for hazing (which is a bunch of BS, but given the veterans all got hazed they want to be able to haze the new guys) but in trouble for being caught. With all the concern about concussions, brain damage, and the future of the league, the last thing they want to deal with is something like this.
Although I suppose Incognito could plead diminished capacity.
"I think you might be right Nick.."
Troop, this reminds me of an old CBS documentary, "The Violent World of Sam Huff", wherein it was revealed that Sammy was fond of silk underwear and was the first NFL player to wear pink.
Course it was a long time ago and my memory ain't what it used to be.
Sports is what warriors used to do between wars. Now we have the two roles separated. Maybe they shouldn't be.
Hemingway said that mountain climbing, bull fighting, and auto racing were sports. Everything else were just games. For it to be a sport, in his mind, you had to risk your life.
Listen I love the sport of kings. Nothing is better than going to the track on a soft summer night and betting a few ducats right on the nose of a noble beast.
But if he takes a shit on track I don't get upset.
That's what animmals do.
Same diff. Get over it.
I'm with Icepick on this. When I first heard the story of some prank in the cafeteria; I thought Martin needs to grow up and deal with it. The reported extortion changed the story for me.
Trooper claims this is capitalism, perhaps he means Karl Marx's version of it. But in free market; Incognito wouldn't be allowed to extort rookies to inflate his salary by making them pay for bullshit bills.
The Dolphin front office should put a stop to that immediately. You can't effectively build contracts with individual players if a team dynamic exists that allows the veterans to make a little extra on the side off their teammates. If that's meerly hazing, then the mob is just a frat. Personally, it looks like extortion to me, and that's criminal.
However, I think Martin is finished. He could have handled this far better.
You know you have persuaded me.
The Dolphins should kiss his boo boo and make it all better.
Welcome to the NFL.
Troop ... I really think you're off base on this one. The game of football is dangerous enough without contrived bullshit added to it. This whole thing reminds of professional wrestling, as does the NFL and NCAA of late.
Who is right or wrong, tough or not, isn't the point. It is the point that this chicken-shit nonsense exists in football at all...it adds nothing to the game. Nothing.
What it adds to the game is not the question.
When an NFL player quits the team because he was being "bullied" then the feminization of our culture is complete. We might as well all give up. It is all over.
If you buy into this nonsense.
Ask yourself this
What would Vince Lombardi do?
Bubba Smith?
Deacon Jones?
Jack Tatum?
Kenny Stabler?
Billy Kilmer?
Earl Morrall?
Johnny U?
Roger Staubach?
Bob Lilly?
Jim Fuckin' Brown?
Would they fold their ball sack up against their legs and tell Mommy that they were being bullied?
Somehow I think not. Just sayn'
Trooper.... I am very familiar with the necessary concept manning up in parts of life that require it, like life and death situations.
Just the fact we're having this conversation tells me that NFL football is a waste of time and money. For those who are fans, good luck with your fantasy world of machismo. You are paying for it, so why not.
Fact is you nor I know precisely everything that was said between Incognito and Martin. We don't know either's motives, nor whether one walked away to avoid worse reaction on his part.
The fact it came up at all tells me the NFL is like romper room on steroids. It is strictly a business and if this fandango seems okay to you, fine. It is still pure entertainment.
In your list of football heros...you missed the only one I admire highly: Pat Tillman.
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