Remember Lem you don't have to show them your papers even if they ask you. You can still get back over the border in the trunk of the Chevy. No sweat mi amigo.
I don't know if The Quick and the Dead is supposed to be an homage or theft.
Anyway, whether spaghetti or not, a western is at its root a morality play - there are good guys and there are bad guys, even if they are struggling to determine which they are, as well as good and evil, sin and redemption. The gunman is either on the downslope of evil and sin, or seeking to redeem himself, or feeling drawn to do good despite wanting to be amoral or drawn to do some evil despite a vow to be good.
Of course, this is not always apparent, the spaghetti westerns being made during the 60s and 70s, when many were struggling with morality, but they were also made in Italy and Spain (primarily) where the people still were reeling from the effects of some really bad guys (Mussolini and Hitler) and so there was always the audience's desire to see the bad guys get it, rather than win the day.
The Quick and the Dead was a sort of Western fantasy, which is okay. A great film...no. It is not as good as Tombstone, but it had a few decent scenes and I have watched it more than once.
Lem, the canooks would not let you park unless you drank or played slots? So drink and play some slots! Or did you want to go out and look at that waterfall thing?
With all due respect to Kirby York, who made a great many classics, I'm undecided as to whether the greatest western ever is Eastwood's Unforgiven or Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West.
Fort Apache, where the Indians were the good guys and the white man, both the government agent and Col. Thursday, were the bad guys. Actually, Thursday more arrogant and foolish than bad (perhaps like Custer himself).
The problem with Eastwood is that after the much deserved praise for Unforgiven he became a living icon and much too solemn for my taste. He lost his crazy sense of fun that he had earlier in his career.
I've seen too many film retrospectives on The Searchers which put their own political spin on it (like Scorcese's), which kind of spoils it for me. John Wayne's character is a lot more sophisticated than the out-and-out racist that some make him out to be.
I agree with you Bender. First of all the Searchers is a great story. It has been copied many times. You could remake it today in the modern day with the story of the young girl who was just kidnapped and family killed who was rescued today.
One of my best friends and my partner in one of my businesses is a Texan. Put himself through grad school punching cows in a feed lot (literally too...), the whole bit. We sponsor a rodeo in his little town. His favorite movie of all time was The Cowboys...the John Wayne movie with all the little kids.
About Indian fights -- I'd put the northeastern guys of "Last of the Mohicans" and "Black Robe" up against those southwestern desert/plains teepee dwellers any day.
Western movies in of themselves is a big category. You could break it down into subsets.
My Top Ten.
10. She Wore A Yellow Ribbon 9. My Darling Clementine. 8. Johnny Guitar 7. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance 6. The Long Riders 5. Unforgiven 4. Red River 3. The Gunfight at OK Corral 2. The Magnificent Seven 1. The Searchers
Honorable Mention: Rio Grande,Fort Apache, The Gunfighter, Tombstone, The Big Sky, Cheyenne Autumn, The Angel and The Bad Man, The War Wagon, The Daybreakers, Ride the High Country, Will Penny, The Alamo (the one with the Duke of course), Destry Rides Again, The Star Packer, The Tall Horseman, Duel in the Sun, They Died with their Boots On, Drums Along the Mohawk, Rancho Notorious, Major Dundee, Broken Arrow, Lonely are the Brave, The Way West.
Costner was good in it. I was shocked. I held off seeing it for a long time despite Robert Duvall.
Then someone reminded me that I really liked The Untouchables with Costner. I pointed out that there was Connery and Andy Garcia and that little guy with the glasses...and it was pointed out to me that Robert Duvall was equal to the 3 of them.
And the remake they made of it with Robert Mitchum in the Dino role.
I didn't like Liberty Valance. I know...I hate myself for it, I just couldn't get into it. Maybe I should try again. I've started to warm up to James Stewart more over the years.
Really liked him in that murder trial movie that I can never remember the name. That was a great film.
Bender talk about your political bullshit movies!!!
High Noon is a commie classic. It is up there with the all time worst movies ever made.
The concept was total bullshit. Western towns were not treed by some bullshit outlaws. The people in town would grab their guns and shoot the shit out of them like they did to the James Gang in Northfield or the Dalton gang.
Check out Walter Hill's very underrated classic "The Long Riders" to see what a town did to outlaws who came to take over a town.
High Noon was liberal pussy crying over Joe McCarthy. What a load of hooey.
Katie Elder needs to be on the list somewhere for no other reason than Duke made it about 3 months after having one of his lungs hacked out of his chest and he did all his own stunts.
Now there was a man for you, Jeremiah Johnson.
Speaking of which--Jeremiah Johnson should be on the list.
Along with Josey Wales, Pale Rider and the other one.
Rio Bravo should be on the list for Angie Dickinson alone. My bad.
As someone who'd only ever seen Angie Dickinson post Police Woman--when I saw that movie (I was in college) I had a hard time believing it was her. Holy, holy hotness.
Trooper York said: The concept was total bullshit. Western towns were not treed by some bullshit outlaws. The people in town would grab their guns and shoot the shit out of them like they did to the James Gang in Northfield or the Dalton gang.
I see the same notion in "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" (except for Tom). Also, a western town was terrorized by a asingle outlaw in Stephen Crane's "The Bride Comes To Yellow Sky." It seems pretty stock in trade to me.
I thought Katie Elder was just a sub par effort along with other films the Duke made like "The Undefeated" with Roman Gabriel and "The Train Robbers" with Ann Margaret or "Chisum." Not his best work and best left off the list.
I also left "The Wild Bunch" off the list because I just don't care for it and think it was very overrated.
High Noon is only a commie movie if you bothered to listen to critics and the film makers who said it was.
Don't let them poison your mind.
It is about the rugged individualist who does the right thing, even when everyone abandons him and refuse to do the right thing (as the history of mankind shows that people do). That is about as conservative as them come.
The people in town would grab their guns and shoot the shit out of them like . . .
Only in fiction. In real life history, people are worms and are more likely to embrace thugs and despots. Why do you think there have been so many dictators in human history?
Bender in real life when outlaws went to rob the bank in places like Northfield the people in town shot the shit out of them. The James gang was destroyed as was the Bass gang in Texas and the Dalton's in Missouri. The fact of the matter is most gunfights happened on the bad side of town among the sporting crowd and most people didn't give a shit. Equivalent to the gangbangers shooting it out in Chicago.
Most western towns were filled with Civil War vets who were not afraid to shoot it out when they had to do it.
I wonder how many are aware that High Noon was a deeply subversive film? I wasn't aware of that when I saw it as a kid. But if you remember, in the very last scene of the film, after having saved the town from the returning outlaw almost single handedly, as the townsfolk come out of hiding and gather round him the marshall takes off his marshal's star and throws it to the ground. This was a true shocker coming at that time in our history, when reverence for law enforcement and the symbols of law enforcement was the norm. There were actually protests against the film, which were of course drowned out by the liberal praise machine. The signal had been sent. And was received by the whole horrible crew that brought us the glorious '60's. Ya know, Montana Urban Schmendrick's antecedents.
You do realize that westerns don't represent dusty towns of the 1800s, which are now dead and buried, but instead are supposed to be timeless microcosms of the entire world and life itself?
Henry Fonda was a great actor but he really lost out when he got in a fight with John Ford and stopped making movies with him. His run with Ford was unbelievable.
His Owen Thursday in Fort Apache was a classic and his young Abe Lincoln is how most Americans should think Abe Lincoln really was and not the Speilberg commie version.
You do realize that westerns don't represent dusty towns of the 1800s, which are now dead and buried, but instead are supposed to be timeless microcosms of the entire world and life itself?
Even today we have gone through an extended period where folks have demanded that, instead of people looking out for each other, they should simply stay in their truck, mind their own business, and leave possible bad guys alone.
There have been claims -- by the film maker himself -- that Starship Troopers was supposed to be about the nazi-like dangers of right wing governments, or something like that.
Funny when the people who make the films don't have a clue as to what they have made.
The best Indian fights were in "Fort Apache" or "Hondo" or "The Battle at Apache Pass" or even "The Last of the Mohicans."
"The Searchers" did it with implication and subtlety which is something that escapes you my good man.
Then you obviously never saw it - and the one in "Hondo" is a joke, the Indians would have destroyed the wagons piecemeal.
Give you the finale in "Fort Apache" and a piece of "Mohicans" (a tad too martial artsy).
But, to let Troop know what he's missing, I'll just say what Ford did in that vignette in "The Searchers" is go inside every isolated cabin in every Indian war and give us a glimpse of what those people were thinking.
Then "The Unforgiven" takes you through the fight - very realistically. If you have the guts, watch it and tell me it's got any of the fights in "The Searchers" (and that's what I was addressing) hands down.
PS Fonda broke up with Ford because of Ford's drinking.
The thing about lefties, including lefty movie makers -- they project.
They project their own evils upon their opponents. So when they make films supposedly about their opponents being the bad guys, they end up making themselves the bad guys. And their opponents end up being the good guys.
There is nothing about Will Kane that suggests any resemblance to any liberal, Democrat, leftist politican in the last 60 years. Rather, they are the Frank Millers of the piece.
The War Wagon is full of piss and vinegar, a great comic treat. Plus a terrific song sung by the inimitable Frankie Laine. Who wrote the musical theme for The War Wagon? That All-American anglo-saxon, Dimitri Tiompkin!
Bender in real life when outlaws went to rob the bank in places like Northfield the people in town shot the shit out of them. The James gang was destroyed as was the Bass gang in Texas and the Dalton's in Missouri.
Not always. Jesse James made a name for himself robbing banks in broad daylight by using Quantrill's guerilla tactics. Witness Liberty MO.
A lot depended on what was going on and how quickly the town reacted. Northfield went bad because too many strangers were noticed lounging around the bank doors and one of the tellers was shot, alerting the townsfolk. The Daltons OTOH were recognized when they tried to hit Coffeyville.
"Hondo" was good clean fun Eddie. Running fights were part of the real world of what went on at the time.
I think you really overstate the appeal of "The Unforgiven" as witnessed by the fact it is basically forgotten today. Plus any Western with Audrey Hepburn in it is just kidding itself. Just sayn'
Update - We had to check into the american side the dame way we checked into canadá. The patrón ask me if i bought any sugeriréis. He had a serios look on his face so i had to be carefull. Some lady with us was not so lucky. She was asked back behind closed doors. She is back on the bus now and we are on our way.
"Hondo" was good clean fun Eddie. Running fights were part of the real world of what went on at the time.
Agree on the fun part (read the novel), but, once the wagons circled, especially with breechloaders and/or repeaters, the Indians didn't have a prayer. Running fights were ahorseback until they could find some cover.
I think you really overstate the appeal of "The Unforgiven" as witnessed by the fact it is basically forgotten today. Plus any Western with Audrey Hepburn in it is just kidding itself. Just sayn'
A lot of good movies are "basically forgotten today", that's got nothing to do with it. As I say, if you have the guts, watch it through to the end - one of the best Indian fights ever.
And as for Miss Golightly, I don't doubt for an instant, she was picked, in addition to her cheekbones, for the same reason Glen Campbell ended up in "True Grit".
Trooper--you left "stagecoach" off your list. And while "treasure of the sierra madre" is not a western, I still watch it. Humphrey Bogart was great in it.
You are right Roger. I had it on my ten best list but recently took it off and didn't include it in honorable mention by oversight.
There are couple of others I left off like "Support Your Local Sheriff", "Hang 'Em High" and "Tall in the Saddle" which surprisingly enough is not about Wilt Chamberlain.
Eddie, eddie, eddie. What's wrong with you dude. "The Searchers" has long been recognized as a great movie. Even the French homos in the Cahiers du Cinema recognized it as a seminal work in the sixties. Get a grip. I know you hate John Ford but you have to give him his due.
"My Darling Clementine" is a minor work after all. "Stagecoach" was the most often ripped off as the archetypes it presented as characters are easily copied. The "bad" good man in Johnny Ringo. The Drunken doctor. The whore with a heart of gold. The dissipated Southern gambler. The greedy banker. All of them appear over and over again.
What a great demonstration of the difference between the west's way of doing things and the east's. And, Trooper, in this case the "east" was NYC. I love Lee J Cobb as the annoyed NY detective. I also like how Eastwood's character, the deputy from Prescott doesn't buy into the bullshit of the fugitive from his jail.
In looks alone, "Stagecoach" is one of the most authentic movies made.
Almost everything in that picture looks real.
PS I agree with much of Troop's list, but there are damn few Westerns after 1965 that are any good.
OTOH, there are some Westerns that are laughable except for some particular feature.
F'rinstance, "The Big Country" is way too overwrought, but it's got what some call the greatest score in movies. And I tend to agree.
The history of "They Died With Their Boots On" is pure Hollywood, but it's got some great lines, as does "El Dorado" (which is what saves it from being a really bad remake of "Rio Bravo").
Eddie, eddie, eddie. What's wrong with you dude. "The Searchers" has long been recognized as a great movie. Even the French homos in the Cahiers du Cinema recognized it as a seminal work in the sixties. Get a grip. I know you hate John Ford but you have to give him his due.
Sorry, but you are so wrong. I'm a big Ford fan, but I like the cavalry trilogy (although I'd gladly substitute "Sergeant Rutledge" for "Rio Grande"*) - particularly "Yellow Ribbon" - and "Stagecoach" more (btw, no movie, actor, or director walks on water in my view).
"The Searchers" was almost unknown (and certainly unshown) in this country before the Lefties (undoubtedly taking their cue from the Frawgs) started writing about it in the 80s.
* After all, when Woody Strode gets up and tells Carleton Young, "I ain' no swamp runnin' nigger, I'm a MAN", all the Duke and Maureen on earth can't beat that.
"Stagecoach" is important in the history of the movies just as "The Iron Horse" another Ford classic would be. But "Stagecoach" is quite simplistic thematically and not in the same league as the mature vision of "The Searchers."
Ethan Edwards was the outsider who went to fight in the Civil war leaving the love of his life home to marry his brother. He is a man of iron principle who in the end bent by the force of love. His implacable will lead him on the chase for ten years but his humanity stopped him from what was the logical ending for someone in his time and place. He remains the outsider and the end shot of him framed in the doorway while the rest of the family goes into the cabin to gather around the rescued Debbie is one of the most iconic shots in movie history.
It's funny that I am always defending "The Searchers" because it is not even in my top five favorite John Ford movies.
10.She Wore A Yellow Ribbon 9. My Darling Clementine. 8. Shane 7. Good, Bad, and the Ugly 6. Wild Bunch 5. The Searchers 4. Red River 3. The Professionals 2. Winchester '73 1. Ride the High Country
Ride the High Country was Randolph Scott's last movie--Scott was a really good actor, IMO. Apparently he was also a very good business man and made a lot of money in So Cal real estate. Allegedly Scott and Cary Grant were roommates for quite a while--not that there is anything wrong with it.
"Red River" is the movie where the Duke came into his own. It was the movie where he first really showed his talent and cemented his place as one of the most popular stars in movie history.
Hawks seemed to base many if not most of his female characters in his later works on his ex-wife Slim Keith who was a piece of work.
Here we are at 100+ comments - more than we've seen here on one post and the only one to mention same sex marriage is Troop.
Trooper York said...
As is "Will Penny" a nifty little yarn starring Charlton Heston.
Agree. One of Chuck's earlier pieces, "Arrowhead", is also pretty good.
"Pony Express" has some of the same history problems as "They Died...", but a nice little flick nonetheless/
CEO-MMP said...
Red River is just John Wayne suffering PMS.
No, it's about the younger generation taking the reins.
The only thing wrong with it is it suffers from Hawks' great flaw, as he himself acknowledged - he could never understand a woman who didn't like to go hunting and fishing, to do the same things men do.
Ford, and most directors, didn't have that problem, witness Ollie Carey's soliloquy in (dare I say?) "The Searchers" or Geraldine Fitzgerald in "Hondo".
I always liked Steve McQueen in "Hombre." A group of people are besieged by bandits--McQueen is largely responsible for holding them off--The bandits want to talk the folks on top of the hill. The talk and McQueen, as hombre" comes out and says--"I got a question: how you are you getting down this hill? Great scene.
Ride the High Country was Randolph Scott's last movie--Scott was a really good actor, IMO. Apparently he was also a very good business man and made a lot of money in So Cal real estate. Allegedly Scott and Cary Grant were roommates for quite a while--not that there is anything wrong with it
The writer who alleged that, Charles Higham, was known for making sensational allegations that were dubious in the extreme.
Like Kitty Kelley and, like her, was eventually discredited.
Largely when he tried to accuse Errol Flynn of being a closet Nazi and Flynn's old bud, David Niven, went after him.
Darce, you can't just throw in a thought and expect to be listened to by the locomotives in full throttle flying down the best western rails! You should know that by now. ;^)
No, it's about the younger generation taking the reins.
If you say so, then fine.
When I watch a movie with John Wayne in it he becomes the focal point of the movie for me and I don't really pay much attention to what's going on around him.
Hell, I had to watch Rio Bravo three times before I even knew Ricky Nelson was there.
One of Boone's great lines in "Hombre" was when he was standing up at the top of the hill talking to Newman and comments: "Ypu've got a helluva lot of bark on you, mister." LOL.
What shocks me about The Searchers is to see (and hear) Festus, who as I remember was kind of like French Stewart in Gunsmoke, but is a kind of a hayseed as Vera Miles' fiance.
With all due respect to Kirby York, who made a great many classics, I'm undecided as to whether the greatest western ever is Eastwood's Unforgiven or Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West.
The Western is too big a genre to pick one as the best. How to compare Fort Apache with The Searchers? Unforgiven with Lonesome Dove? True Grit with Eastwood's Western ghost stories (High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider?)
(I don't consider Eastwood's ghost stories all that great, but they're definitely interesting.)
Not to mention a wide range of other films, such as The Shootist (which I really like) or the various Spaghetti Westerns.
It's just too big a category, with too many diverse types of story, to pick a single one as best.
Oh, and I'd put several films of Wayne's above "The Searchers". If I want to see the Duke do bitter, I'd much rather watch "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" which also features James Stewart being all James Stewart-y. (That's a good thing, BTW.)
I've never understood the love for this movie. It leaves me completely cold, much like Grace Kelly herself leaves me. She's very beautiful, for an ice statue.
One of Boone's great lines in "Hombre" was when he was standing up at the top of the hill talking to Newman and comments: "Ypu've got a helluva lot of bark on you, mister." LOL.
From a quote by Frederic Remington, "I go back to ...the scrawny ponies, the men with the bark on, I'm home".
Bender said...
What shocks me about The Searchers is to see (and hear) Festus, who as I remember was kind of like French Stewart in Gunsmoke, but is a kind of a hayseed as Vera Miles' fiance.
That was his major screen persona first seen as a recurring character in "Have Gun, Will travel", although he could play it straight as a leading man. He was also part of the Sons of the Pioneers and had been a big band singer.
How'd I forget Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?
Sundance: I can't swim! [Cassidy laughs] Butch: Are you crazy? The fall'll probably kill ya!
I love that movie, right down the the Ro Hinklin Singers on the soundtrack. I don't know what it is, but George Roy Hill films just really seem to connect with me.
Yes, hard as it is to believe, Kevin Costner actually was good in a movie.
What a movie. It had some great scenes, I mean really great. And some of the stupidest movie-making decisions I've ever seen in my life. I love Annette Bening, but she was completely miscast here - in fact the entire part for her was wrong. And the ending, ugh.
But it did have its moments, and Costner and Duvall were excellent.
High Noon won Gary Coper an Oscar and deservedly so. Jack Palance with two other bad guys was coming to town to kill him, and Gary Cooper looked scared and upset about the whole situation. That's exactly right. When Jack Palance is plotting to kill you, the appropriate response is to be scared, very scared. So far as I can remember, Gary Cooper was the first action hero to ever express fear in a movie.. That's what gave the movie so much credibility.....Back in the fifties, Cooper was a bigger star than Wayne, but Wayne's movies have endured better. The odd thing is that Cooper has an authentic background as a cowboy, and Wayne's cowboy was a performance......I still watch Vera Cruz every time it's on TCM. It's much better than The Wild Bunch.
Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo - now there's a movie.
Eli Wallach does a tremendous job in that one. Every time I see it I'm a little more impressed with his performance. It's totally Tuco's movie, not BLondie's.
292 comments:
1 – 200 of 292 Newer› Newest»One thing to keep in mind - I invoked the title as a kind of contrast to the musings on forgiveness the other commenters posted.
The next good spaghetti Western I see is also gonna be the first.
PS "The Unforgiven" is a good Hollywood Western with Burt Lancaster and Audrey Hepburn from the 50s.
"Unforgiven", which I think Pollo meant to invoke, is Mr Yates.
The Unforgiven is a spectacular movie and a spectacular western starring Mr. Eastwood, and don't you forget it.
I Went in the casino in the canadiense side and un less You sat at the bar or at the slot machine You couldnt Park. So i left.
Remember Lem you don't have to show them your papers even if they ask you. You can still get back over the border in the trunk of the Chevy. No sweat mi amigo.
Just don't let them see you sweat buddy.
Tell them your are just waiting for Bernardo and Anita and are all going to the dance. Nobody has to know.
"The Unforgiven" vs. "Unforgiven" is definitely subtle.
Culpa mia
Thanks, ed!
I don't know if The Quick and the Dead is supposed to be an homage or theft.
Anyway, whether spaghetti or not, a western is at its root a morality play - there are good guys and there are bad guys, even if they are struggling to determine which they are, as well as good and evil, sin and redemption. The gunman is either on the downslope of evil and sin, or seeking to redeem himself, or feeling drawn to do good despite wanting to be amoral or drawn to do some evil despite a vow to be good.
Of course, this is not always apparent, the spaghetti westerns being made during the 60s and 70s, when many were struggling with morality, but they were also made in Italy and Spain (primarily) where the people still were reeling from the effects of some really bad guys (Mussolini and Hitler) and so there was always the audience's desire to see the bad guys get it, rather than win the day.
None of Inspector Callahan's big screen efforts ever wowed me.
"The Unforgiven" OTOH has an Indian fight at the end that puts (dare I say?) "The Searchers" to shame.
Eddie don't start with me.
The best Indian fights were in "Fort Apache" or "Hondo" or "The Battle at Apache Pass" or even "The Last of the Mohicans."
"The Searchers" did it with implication and subtlety which is something that escapes you my good man.
Burt Lancaster did a great job as an Indian in "Apache" which is a fun movie of the same era as "The Unforgiven."
"The Battle at Apache Pass" is a fun movie with Jeff Chandler as Cochise and the immortal Jay Silverheels as Geronimo.
The Quick and the Dead was a sort of Western fantasy, which is okay. A great film...no. It is not as good as Tombstone, but it had a few decent scenes and I have watched it more than once.
None of Inspector Callahan's big screen efforts ever wowed me.
How do you even talk to a guy like that?
Lem, the canooks would not let you park unless you drank or played slots? So drink and play some slots! Or did you want to go out and look at that waterfall thing?
With all due respect to Kirby York, who made a great many classics, I'm undecided as to whether the greatest western ever is Eastwood's Unforgiven or Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West.
edutcher said...
None of Inspector Callahan's big screen efforts ever wowed me.
I'm too young to remember "Rawhide" which made Eastwood a TV star. I do remember seeing him in this TV sitcom.
With all do respect Bender I would put Unforgiven in the Top Ten but Once Upon a Time doesn't make the cut.
"The Searchers" is generally regarded as the best Western of all time and is often in the running as one of the top ten films of all time.
Eddie just has it for John Ford.
Fort Apache, where the Indians were the good guys and the white man, both the government agent and Col. Thursday, were the bad guys. Actually, Thursday more arrogant and foolish than bad (perhaps like Custer himself).
The problem with Eastwood is that after the much deserved praise for Unforgiven he became a living icon and much too solemn for my taste. He lost his crazy sense of fun that he had earlier in his career.
The Searchers is a decent movie. Top ten of all time though?
I've seen too many film retrospectives on The Searchers which put their own political spin on it (like Scorcese's), which kind of spoils it for me. John Wayne's character is a lot more sophisticated than the out-and-out racist that some make him out to be.
Bonus points, Chickie, if you recognized Eastwood's housekeeper.
I Stand with Ed.
I agree with you Bender. First of all the Searchers is a great story. It has been copied many times. You could remake it today in the modern day with the story of the young girl who was just kidnapped and family killed who was rescued today.
My mistake. And a big one too.
Top of the list - High Noon.
But that is not as epic as either Unforgiven or Once Upon a Time in the West. Leone shot exellent shoot-out scenes.
CEO-MMP, Sorry, I should. But I got distracted by Elliemae
I really like Big Jake, whose grandson was kidnapped and who takes a no-nonsense approach to getting him back.
Gee Troop, you mean like "Taken"?
Which was a really good movie. And clocking in at what...75 minutes? Very tight.
I don't mean really good like "classic of all time" I just mean really good.
Lem said...
I Stand with Ed.
We could all take sides and have a showdown.
I mean, I'm dressed for it. So is Trooper.
One of my best friends and my partner in one of my businesses is a Texan. Put himself through grad school punching cows in a feed lot (literally too...), the whole bit. We sponsor a rodeo in his little town. His favorite movie of all time was The Cowboys...the John Wayne movie with all the little kids.
That and Open Range.
About Indian fights -- I'd put the northeastern guys of "Last of the Mohicans" and "Black Robe" up against those southwestern desert/plains teepee dwellers any day.
EBL could keep an eye out for Sheriff Meade who was last seen over at the NTTAWWT Corral.
I mean, I'm dressed for it. So is Trooper.
Pretty sure he's not wearing pants.
I'm not having a showdown with anyone not wearing pants unless they're of the true female persuasion (not the faux female persuasion of Mr. Sparkly).
Open Range.
Yes, hard as it is to believe, Kevin Costner actually was good in a movie.
What does Ed stand for Again?
His favorite movie of all time was The Cowboys...the John Wayne movie with all the little kids.
That film had an "R" rating when it came out but I got the gist of it from "Mad Magazine"
Western movies in of themselves is a big category. You could break it down into subsets.
My Top Ten.
10. She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
9. My Darling Clementine.
8. Johnny Guitar
7. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
6. The Long Riders
5. Unforgiven
4. Red River
3. The Gunfight at OK Corral
2. The Magnificent Seven
1. The Searchers
Honorable Mention: Rio Grande,Fort Apache, The Gunfighter, Tombstone, The Big Sky, Cheyenne Autumn, The Angel and The Bad Man, The War Wagon, The Daybreakers, Ride the High Country, Will Penny, The Alamo (the one with the Duke of course), Destry Rides Again, The Star Packer, The Tall Horseman, Duel in the Sun, They Died with their Boots On, Drums Along the Mohawk, Rancho Notorious, Major Dundee, Broken Arrow, Lonely are the Brave, The Way West.
Costner was good in it. I was shocked. I held off seeing it for a long time despite Robert Duvall.
Then someone reminded me that I really liked The Untouchables with Costner. I pointed out that there was Connery and Andy Garcia and that little guy with the glasses...and it was pointed out to me that Robert Duvall was equal to the 3 of them.
Btw. We are leaving the canadiense side. Picking up straglers and heading back.
How can Rio Bravo not be on that list?
And the remake they made of it with Robert Mitchum in the Dino role.
I didn't like Liberty Valance. I know...I hate myself for it, I just couldn't get into it. Maybe I should try again. I've started to warm up to James Stewart more over the years.
Really liked him in that murder trial movie that I can never remember the name. That was a great film.
Bender talk about your political bullshit movies!!!
High Noon is a commie classic. It is up there with the all time worst movies ever made.
The concept was total bullshit. Western towns were not treed by some bullshit outlaws. The people in town would grab their guns and shoot the shit out of them like they did to the James Gang in Northfield or the Dalton gang.
Check out Walter Hill's very underrated classic "The Long Riders" to see what a town did to outlaws who came to take over a town.
High Noon was liberal pussy crying over Joe McCarthy. What a load of hooey.
Rio Bravo should be on the list for Angie Dickinson alone. My bad.
Vous sortez du secteur canadienne
And you put on War Wagon but not Katie Elder?
Katie Elder needs to be on the list somewhere for no other reason than Duke made it about 3 months after having one of his lungs hacked out of his chest and he did all his own stunts.
Now there was a man for you, Jeremiah Johnson.
Speaking of which--Jeremiah Johnson should be on the list.
Along with Josey Wales, Pale Rider and the other one.
Lem try and pick up some chicks instead of staglers. You don't know where those staglers might have been buddy.
Rio Bravo should be on the list for Angie Dickinson alone. My bad.
As someone who'd only ever seen Angie Dickinson post Police Woman--when I saw that movie (I was in college) I had a hard time believing it was her. Holy, holy hotness.
About Liberty Valance --
Bit of trivia here. The last movie made by Woody Stroud was?
Trooper York said: The concept was total bullshit. Western towns were not treed by some bullshit outlaws. The people in town would grab their guns and shoot the shit out of them like they did to the James Gang in Northfield or the Dalton gang.
I see the same notion in "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" (except for Tom). Also, a western town was terrorized by a asingle outlaw in Stephen Crane's "The Bride Comes To Yellow Sky." It seems pretty stock in trade to me.
Lots of babes here.
The Quick and the Dead.
(He's only in the background of one shot for a second or two, having died soon thereafter.)
I thought Katie Elder was just a sub par effort along with other films the Duke made like "The Undefeated" with Roman Gabriel and "The Train Robbers" with Ann Margaret or "Chisum." Not his best work and best left off the list.
I also left "The Wild Bunch" off the list because I just don't care for it and think it was very overrated.
High Noon is only a commie movie if you bothered to listen to critics and the film makers who said it was.
Don't let them poison your mind.
It is about the rugged individualist who does the right thing, even when everyone abandons him and refuse to do the right thing (as the history of mankind shows that people do). That is about as conservative as them come.
I thought "High Noon" was pretty good.
I see your point about it not being his best work, but still...3 months after having a lung hacked out of his chest...
I don't think I've ever seen The Wild Bunch.
I believe I did see The Girls Gone Wild Bunch though.
The people in town would grab their guns and shoot the shit out of them like . . .
Only in fiction. In real life history, people are worms and are more likely to embrace thugs and despots. Why do you think there have been so many dictators in human history?
Shane isn't on your list?
Lonely are the Brave is a great movie though.
Kirk Douglas made a lot of good movies.
Only in fiction. In real life history, people are worms and are more likely to embrace thugs and despots.
I mean...look how many people...ahh...never mind no point in setting off the dog whistle.
Bender in real life when outlaws went to rob the bank in places like Northfield the people in town shot the shit out of them. The James gang was destroyed as was the Bass gang in Texas and the Dalton's in Missouri. The fact of the matter is most gunfights happened on the bad side of town among the sporting crowd and most people didn't give a shit. Equivalent to the gangbangers shooting it out in Chicago.
Most western towns were filled with Civil War vets who were not afraid to shoot it out when they had to do it.
This is Henry Fonda day over at TCM, btw.
They had The Return of Frank James and Firecreek.
I thought Shane was a horrible movie and hated it.
Alan Ladd was a fuckin' midget for crying out loud.
I've never seen it, it just seems like it's some kind of benchmark on most people's lists.
I wonder how many are aware that High Noon was a deeply subversive film? I wasn't aware of that when I saw it as a kid. But if you remember, in the very last scene of the film, after having saved the town from the returning outlaw almost single handedly, as the townsfolk come out of hiding and gather round him the marshall takes off his marshal's star and throws it to the ground. This was a true shocker coming at that time in our history, when reverence for law enforcement and the symbols of law enforcement was the norm. There were actually protests against the film, which were of course drowned out by the liberal praise machine. The signal had been sent. And was received by the whole horrible crew that brought us the glorious '60's. Ya know, Montana Urban Schmendrick's antecedents.
You do realize that westerns don't represent dusty towns of the 1800s, which are now dead and buried, but instead are supposed to be timeless microcosms of the entire world and life itself?
Henry Fonda was a great actor but he really lost out when he got in a fight with John Ford and stopped making movies with him. His run with Ford was unbelievable.
His Owen Thursday in Fort Apache was a classic and his young Abe Lincoln is how most Americans should think Abe Lincoln really was and not the Speilberg commie version.
You do realize that westerns don't represent dusty towns of the 1800s, which are now dead and buried, but instead are supposed to be timeless microcosms of the entire world and life itself?
Oh. One of those.
NTTAWWT.
That is true sometimes Bender but sometimes they are just a good story.
Not every western was met to be a timeless classic. Some of them were just entertainment. When you get both then you have something. Just sayn'
Even today we have gone through an extended period where folks have demanded that, instead of people looking out for each other, they should simply stay in their truck, mind their own business, and leave possible bad guys alone.
His best role was On Golden Pond.
And not a horse in sight.
In Lonely Are The Brave Kirk Douglas wanted to shtoop his jailed friend's wife but he was too noble to do such a dastardly thing, goll darnit.
He had a horse, he didn't need a woman.
You want a great movie that is not meant to be a timeless classic but just good dirty fun?
"The Professionals" with Lee Marvin, Burt Lancaster and Robert Ryan. Also Woody Strode and Jack Palance.
That's entertainment!
There have been claims -- by the film maker himself -- that Starship Troopers was supposed to be about the nazi-like dangers of right wing governments, or something like that.
Funny when the people who make the films don't have a clue as to what they have made.
And the Dems are all of the people hiding in their houses, happy to welcome Barack Miller to town.
Now if you want to see a movie about what gay marriage would really be like then rent "Johnny Guitar."
(hoping for lots of hits for Lem to get him more comments with controversy)
There are quite a few of the Republican elite hiding in their houses too, making pathetic excuses for not getting involved.
(hoping for lots of hits for Lem to get him more comments with controversy)
This one goes on my scorecard for those keeping score.
Trooper York said...
The best Indian fights were in "Fort Apache" or "Hondo" or "The Battle at Apache Pass" or even "The Last of the Mohicans."
"The Searchers" did it with implication and subtlety which is something that escapes you my good man.
Then you obviously never saw it - and the one in "Hondo" is a joke, the Indians would have destroyed the wagons piecemeal.
Give you the finale in "Fort Apache" and a piece of "Mohicans" (a tad too martial artsy).
But, to let Troop know what he's missing, I'll just say what Ford did in that vignette in "The Searchers" is go inside every isolated cabin in every Indian war and give us a glimpse of what those people were thinking.
Then "The Unforgiven" takes you through the fight - very realistically. If you have the guts, watch it and tell me it's got any of the fights in "The Searchers" (and that's what I was addressing) hands down.
PS Fonda broke up with Ford because of Ford's drinking.
So...wait. Trooper's trying to score?
"The Searchers" has been ripped off time and again. One of the more interesting ones was "Hardcore" with George C. Scott.
"Taken" was another recent rip-off as you had noted but the most blatant one recently was "The Missing" with Tommy Lee Jones.
The thing about lefties, including lefty movie makers -- they project.
They project their own evils upon their opponents. So when they make films supposedly about their opponents being the bad guys, they end up making themselves the bad guys. And their opponents end up being the good guys.
There is nothing about Will Kane that suggests any resemblance to any liberal, Democrat, leftist politican in the last 60 years. Rather, they are the Frank Millers of the piece.
CEO-MMP said...
His best role was On Golden Pond.
I enjoyed Henry Fonda's commercials for the GAF Talking Viewmaster.
Then you obviously never saw it - and the one in "Hondo" is a joke, the Indians would have destroyed the wagons piecemeal.
High heat to back Troop off the plate.
Bender said...
There are quite a few of the Republican elite hiding in their houses too, making pathetic excuses for not getting involved
We can't all be George Zimmerman.
(hoping for more hits...hee)
And who are the Will Kanes?
The Reagans, the Palins, and perhaps the Cruzes of today.
The War Wagon is full of piss and vinegar, a great comic treat. Plus a terrific song sung by the inimitable Frankie Laine. Who wrote the musical theme for The War Wagon? That All-American anglo-saxon, Dimitri Tiompkin!
Don't forget about Randy Paul and his all girl orchestra.
Trooper York said...
Bender in real life when outlaws went to rob the bank in places like Northfield the people in town shot the shit out of them. The James gang was destroyed as was the Bass gang in Texas and the Dalton's in Missouri.
Not always. Jesse James made a name for himself robbing banks in broad daylight by using Quantrill's guerilla tactics. Witness Liberty MO.
A lot depended on what was going on and how quickly the town reacted. Northfield went bad because too many strangers were noticed lounging around the bank doors and one of the tellers was shot, alerting the townsfolk. The Daltons OTOH were recognized when they tried to hit Coffeyville.
"Hondo" was good clean fun Eddie.
Running fights were part of the real world of what went on at the time.
I think you really overstate the appeal of "The Unforgiven" as witnessed by the fact it is basically forgotten today. Plus any Western with Audrey Hepburn in it is just kidding itself. Just sayn'
Wow.
Update - We had to check into the american side the dame way we checked into canadá. The patrón ask me if i bought any sugeriréis. He had a serios look on his face so i had to be carefull. Some lady with us was not so lucky. She was asked back behind closed doors. She is back on the bus now and we are on our way.
Then again...who knew 'The 3:10 To Yuma' was a remake.
Audrey Hepburn though...god.
Lovely creature. Terrible actress. Way too skinny.
The "dame" way Lem? The "dame" way?
I thought you said you were going to stop dressing up like Ceila Cruz if you had a successful blog Lem?
I mean it is fine if that is how you got back in the country but maybe you can go back to normal. Ok buddy.
I mean we are talking possible cavity search like your lady friend. You have to think ahead amigo.
How do you know it's not normal for Lem?
Takes all kinds.
Souvenir
Hey it is fine by me. I don't judge. I mean he is a Red Sox fan after all so you could be on the right track.
Same way, not dame way
same way as what, lem?
Dame is give me in Spanish.
Trooper York said...
"Hondo" was good clean fun Eddie.
Running fights were part of the real world of what went on at the time.
Agree on the fun part (read the novel), but, once the wagons circled, especially with breechloaders and/or repeaters, the Indians didn't have a prayer. Running fights were ahorseback until they could find some cover.
I think you really overstate the appeal of "The Unforgiven" as witnessed by the fact it is basically forgotten today. Plus any Western with Audrey Hepburn in it is just kidding itself. Just sayn'
A lot of good movies are "basically forgotten today", that's got nothing to do with it. As I say, if you have the guts, watch it through to the end - one of the best Indian fights ever.
And as for Miss Golightly, I don't doubt for an instant, she was picked, in addition to her cheekbones, for the same reason Glen Campbell ended up in "True Grit".
Which one's Lem then?
Read at 5:21 ceo
What she gave the producer a blow job?
That can't be right.
She was a lady.
Cant watch You tube right now.
Trooper--you left "stagecoach" off your list. And while "treasure of the sierra madre" is not a western, I still watch it. Humphrey Bogart was great in it.
Can't believe somebody hasn't yet mentioned "Distant Drums" with Gary Cooper, or "The Night of the Stalking Moon" with Greg Peck.
I might add "The Searchers" was forgotten until the (gasp!) Lefties "discovered" it in the 80s.
As Roger notes, Ford's big Westerns in critics' eyes were "Stagecoach", the cavalry trilogy, and "My Darling Clementine".
You are right Roger. I had it on my ten best list but recently took it off and didn't include it in honorable mention by oversight.
There are couple of others I left off like "Support Your Local Sheriff", "Hang 'Em High" and "Tall in the Saddle" which surprisingly enough is not about Wilt Chamberlain.
Eddie, eddie, eddie. What's wrong with you dude. "The Searchers" has long been recognized as a great movie. Even the French homos in the Cahiers du Cinema recognized it as a seminal work in the sixties. Get a grip. I know you hate John Ford but you have to give him his due.
"My Darling Clementine" is a minor work after all. "Stagecoach" was the most often ripped off as the archetypes it presented as characters are easily copied. The "bad" good man in Johnny Ringo. The Drunken doctor. The whore with a heart of gold. The dissipated Southern gambler. The greedy banker. All of them appear over and over again.
"The Searchers" is a different animal.
A great "western" movie with Eastwood:
Coogan's bluff
What a great demonstration of the difference between the west's way of doing things and the east's. And, Trooper, in this case the "east" was NYC. I love Lee J Cobb as the annoyed NY detective. I also like how Eastwood's character, the deputy from Prescott doesn't buy into the bullshit of the fugitive from his jail.
that movie said so much about the '60's.
PS Director of Coogan's bluff, Don Siegel, also directed Wayne's last movie (and one I thought he was great in)
"The Shootist"
In looks alone, "Stagecoach" is one of the most authentic movies made.
Almost everything in that picture looks real.
PS I agree with much of Troop's list, but there are damn few Westerns after 1965 that are any good.
OTOH, there are some Westerns that are laughable except for some particular feature.
F'rinstance, "The Big Country" is way too overwrought, but it's got what some call the greatest score in movies. And I tend to agree.
The history of "They Died With Their Boots On" is pure Hollywood, but it's got some great lines, as does "El Dorado" (which is what saves it from being a really bad remake of "Rio Bravo").
I enjoyed Hang Em High but I don't know that it's a great film.
Although Inger Stevens was some kinda hot. She kinda had a Mariette Hartley thing going. Only more nordic, less nazi.
but it's got some great lines, as does "El Dorado" (which is what saves it from being a really bad remake of "Rio Bravo").
Well, that and the awesomeness that comes from Bob Mitchum's presence.
Michele Carey is no Angie Dickinson in whore pants though.
Trooper York said...
Eddie, eddie, eddie. What's wrong with you dude. "The Searchers" has long been recognized as a great movie. Even the French homos in the Cahiers du Cinema recognized it as a seminal work in the sixties. Get a grip. I know you hate John Ford but you have to give him his due.
Sorry, but you are so wrong. I'm a big Ford fan, but I like the cavalry trilogy (although I'd gladly substitute "Sergeant Rutledge" for "Rio Grande"*) - particularly "Yellow Ribbon" - and "Stagecoach" more (btw, no movie, actor, or director walks on water in my view).
"The Searchers" was almost unknown (and certainly unshown) in this country before the Lefties (undoubtedly taking their cue from the Frawgs) started writing about it in the 80s.
* After all, when Woody Strode gets up and tells Carleton Young, "I ain' no swamp runnin' nigger, I'm a MAN", all the Duke and Maureen on earth can't beat that.
Howard Hawks just liked to make the same movie all the time.
But his "Red River" is one of the greatest westerns of all time.
Red River is just John Wayne suffering PMS.
"Stagecoach" is important in the history of the movies just as "The Iron Horse" another Ford classic would be. But "Stagecoach" is quite simplistic thematically and not in the same league as the mature vision of "The Searchers."
Ethan Edwards was the outsider who went to fight in the Civil war leaving the love of his life home to marry his brother. He is a man of iron principle who in the end bent by the force of love. His implacable will lead him on the chase for ten years but his humanity stopped him from what was the logical ending for someone in his time and place. He remains the outsider and the end shot of him framed in the doorway while the rest of the family goes into the cabin to gather around the rescued Debbie is one of the most iconic shots in movie history.
It's funny that I am always defending "The Searchers" because it is not even in my top five favorite John Ford movies.
10.She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
9. My Darling Clementine.
8. Shane
7. Good, Bad, and the Ugly
6. Wild Bunch
5. The Searchers
4. Red River
3. The Professionals
2. Winchester '73
1. Ride the High Country
"Ride the High Country" is very underrated.
As is "Will Penny" a nifty little yarn starring Charlton Heston.
I'm clearly decades behind on my western movie watching.
Slightly ot but important nonetheless. I found the "ow my balls guy" as a baby.
Anybody seen "Appaloosa"? Interesting and not predictable.
Ride the High Country was Randolph Scott's last movie--Scott was a really good actor, IMO. Apparently he was also a very good business man and made a lot of money in So Cal real estate. Allegedly Scott and Cary Grant were roommates for quite a while--not that there is anything wrong with it.
"Red River" is the movie where the Duke came into his own. It was the movie where he first really showed his talent and cemented his place as one of the most popular stars in movie history.
Hawks seemed to base many if not most of his female characters in his later works on his ex-wife Slim Keith who was a piece of work.
Here we are at 100+ comments - more than we've seen here on one post and the only one to mention same sex marriage is Troop.
Trooper York said...
As is "Will Penny" a nifty little yarn starring Charlton Heston.
Agree. One of Chuck's earlier pieces, "Arrowhead", is also pretty good.
"Pony Express" has some of the same history problems as "They Died...", but a nice little flick nonetheless/
CEO-MMP said...
Red River is just John Wayne suffering PMS.
No, it's about the younger generation taking the reins.
The only thing wrong with it is it suffers from Hawks' great flaw, as he himself acknowledged - he could never understand a woman who didn't like to go hunting and fishing, to do the same things men do.
Ford, and most directors, didn't have that problem, witness Ollie Carey's soliloquy in (dare I say?) "The Searchers" or Geraldine Fitzgerald in "Hondo".
How come blake never shows up at these movie discussions?
It's kinda like Bob Dylan never going to peace marches and sit-ins in the 1960s.
Any episode of F Troop is superior to anything named so far.
I always liked Steve McQueen in "Hombre." A group of people are besieged by bandits--McQueen is largely responsible for holding them off--The bandits want to talk the folks on top of the hill. The talk and McQueen, as hombre" comes out and says--"I got a question: how you are you getting down this hill? Great scene.
Roger J. said...
Ride the High Country was Randolph Scott's last movie--Scott was a really good actor, IMO. Apparently he was also a very good business man and made a lot of money in So Cal real estate. Allegedly Scott and Cary Grant were roommates for quite a while--not that there is anything wrong with it
The writer who alleged that, Charles Higham, was known for making sensational allegations that were dubious in the extreme.
Like Kitty Kelley and, like her, was eventually discredited.
Largely when he tried to accuse Errol Flynn of being a closet Nazi and Flynn's old bud, David Niven, went after him.
Roger, I think you mean Paul Newman in "Hombre".
Darcy said...
Anybody seen "Appaloosa"? Interesting and not predictable.
No, but I completely admire your taste in movies and TV. You're the one who first recommended "Justified."
Ed if you have a chance rent some of Fords work with Harry Carey in the early days of Hollywood.
I recommend "The Soul Herder" "Three Mounted Men" and "Ace of the Saddle."
You will see the genesis of several later films including "The Three Godfathers" another western that we forgot to mention.
Thanks Ed--I don't remember a lot of stuff any more :)
Roger it was Paul Newman in Hombre but I always get them confused as did Joanne Woodard who kept trying to have sex with Steve McQueen.
Oh sorry ed beat me to it.
Richard Boone was great in "Hombre" as well. He was a hell of an actor. Great villain.
Darce, you can't just throw in a thought and expect to be listened to by the locomotives in full throttle flying down the best western rails! You should know that by now. ;^)
Missouri Breaks. Marlon at his most laughable.
Red River is just John Wayne suffering PMS.
No, it's about the younger generation taking the reins.
If you say so, then fine.
When I watch a movie with John Wayne in it he becomes the focal point of the movie for me and I don't really pay much attention to what's going on around him.
Hell, I had to watch Rio Bravo three times before I even knew Ricky Nelson was there.
Angie Dickinson though, I saw her right off.
speak for yourself, ricpic.
Every time Darcy posts, I pay close attention.
I have not seen Appaloosa.
Thanks, El Pollo. :)
And hi, Rick. And I know but thought I'd give it a shot, anyway.
The Soul Herder sounds like a hell of a cheesy CGI heavy teenybopper horror flick.
And thanks for reminding me of it, Darcy. I really like Ed Harris and Jeremy Irons.
And hello, CEO.
You're welcome. They're all good in it. Renee Zellweger is surprising.
One of Boone's great lines in "Hombre" was when he was standing up at the top of the hill talking to Newman and comments: "Ypu've got a helluva lot of bark on you, mister." LOL.
darcy can stop a train going full throttle dead in it's tracks with one look.
John Wayne: You're a nice looking kid and they tell me you're a teen idol, whatever that is, but you lack, uh...gravyness.
Ricky Nelson: Gravitas, Mr. Wayne.
John Wayne: Smartass.
You're welcome. They're all good in it. Renee Zellweger is surprising.
If by that you mean "she doesn't suck"...LOL
And yes Chickie, yes she can!
He makes them wear orange pant's suits in crushed velour and he puts on a big Dr J fro wig and big heeled shoes.
It's freaky.
You guys. :)
And yes, CEO. I mean she doesn't suck. Her acting and her character were both surprising!
The best thing about the movie is the friendship between Harris and Mortenson's characters though.
I heard he wears a Globetrotters jersey and purple bell bottoms too.
Appaloosa's based on one of the Robert B. Parker western novels isn't it?
What shocks me about The Searchers is to see (and hear) Festus, who as I remember was kind of like French Stewart in Gunsmoke, but is a kind of a hayseed as Vera Miles' fiance.
With all due respect to Kirby York, who made a great many classics, I'm undecided as to whether the greatest western ever is Eastwood's Unforgiven or Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West.
The Western is too big a genre to pick one as the best. How to compare Fort Apache with The Searchers? Unforgiven with Lonesome Dove? True Grit with Eastwood's Western ghost stories (High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider?)
(I don't consider Eastwood's ghost stories all that great, but they're definitely interesting.)
Not to mention a wide range of other films, such as The Shootist (which I really like) or the various Spaghetti Westerns.
It's just too big a category, with too many diverse types of story, to pick a single one as best.
@CEO
Yeah, it is. I seem to remember Trooper mentioning that at one time.
But at least Capt. Pike can stand and walk.
Now, if they had had the later Capt. Pike accompanying the Duke, going around "beep, beep" -- that would have been a great movie.
Oh, and I'd put several films of Wayne's above "The Searchers". If I want to see the Duke do bitter, I'd much rather watch "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" which also features James Stewart being all James Stewart-y. (That's a good thing, BTW.)
Once Upon a Time in the West - with Trooper York. I mean Jack Elam.
Good movie, but Hank Fonda is in it, meh...
Seven Samurai is a good movie. Magnificent Seven - so so - great score, but it doesn't live up to the hype.
Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo - now there's a movie.
Top of the list - High Noon.
I've never understood the love for this movie. It leaves me completely cold, much like Grace Kelly herself leaves me. She's very beautiful, for an ice statue.
@Sixty: Did that movie star Legno Dell'Est?
How about "Valdez is Coming" w. Burt Lancaster? The finale is a killer..
Pretty sure he's not wearing pants
Makes it easier to get the Big Gun out?
@Icepick: Did you ever see the Broadway spoof of that one called "The Man Who's Hot, Liberty Valance"?
Gotta love a western. Especially the one's with the big epic cinematography.
But I have to also say that, as good as some of the scores from the 60s are, some of them just overwhelm the scene. They are too jarring.
And I love John Wayne, but the near trademarked comedic fight scene got a bit old too.
These things kind of date films that should be timeless.
Trooper goes to a lot of those type of Broadway shows, so maybe he's seen it. NTTAWWT.
@E. P. - it did. The acting was wooden, however.
So, Elmer Bernstein or Ennio Morricone?
Both.
@Bender: There are scores of others to include.
Pretty sure he's not wearing pants
Makes it easier to get the Big Gun out?
.22 caliber single shot derringer
Scores more scorers to score. Yeah, but these scored more.
virgil xenophon said...
One of Boone's great lines in "Hombre" was when he was standing up at the top of the hill talking to Newman and comments: "Ypu've got a helluva lot of bark on you, mister." LOL.
From a quote by Frederic Remington, "I go back to ...the scrawny ponies, the men with the bark on, I'm home".
Bender said...
What shocks me about The Searchers is to see (and hear) Festus, who as I remember was kind of like French Stewart in Gunsmoke, but is a kind of a hayseed as Vera Miles' fiance.
That was his major screen persona first seen as a recurring character in "Have Gun, Will travel", although he could play it straight as a leading man. He was also part of the Sons of the Pioneers and had been a big band singer.
So, Elmer Bernstein or Ennio Morricone?
No, Bernstein, Tiomkin, or Jerome Moross?
Morricone is a joke.
How'd I forget Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?
Sundance: I can't swim!
[Cassidy laughs]
Butch: Are you crazy? The fall'll probably kill ya!
I love that movie, right down the the Ro Hinklin Singers on the soundtrack. I don't know what it is, but George Roy Hill films just really seem to connect with me.
You gotta love this scene. Leone and Morricone at their best.
Open Range.
Yes, hard as it is to believe, Kevin Costner actually was good in a movie.
What a movie. It had some great scenes, I mean really great. And some of the stupidest movie-making decisions I've ever seen in my life. I love Annette Bening, but she was completely miscast here - in fact the entire part for her was wrong. And the ending, ugh.
But it did have its moments, and Costner and Duvall were excellent.
What was wrong with Annete Benning? I don't understand what you mean.
And I liked the ending. LOL.
High Noon won Gary Coper an Oscar and deservedly so. Jack Palance with two other bad guys was coming to town to kill him, and Gary Cooper looked scared and upset about the whole situation. That's exactly right. When Jack Palance is plotting to kill you, the appropriate response is to be scared, very scared. So far as I can remember, Gary Cooper was the first action hero to ever express fear in a movie.. That's what gave the movie so much credibility.....Back in the fifties, Cooper was a bigger star than Wayne, but Wayne's movies have endured better. The odd thing is that Cooper has an authentic background as a cowboy, and Wayne's cowboy was a performance......I still watch Vera Cruz every time it's on TCM. It's much better than The Wild Bunch.
Darcy appearing here is like the new school marm coming to town.
Trooper, You have used up today's quota on "commie."
That would be interesting if Jack Palance was in "High Noon." The villain was actually Joe McCarthy in his first movie role.
Palance was the villain in "Shane."
Vera Cruz is a great underrated action movie.
What about Shakiest Gun in the West? Don Knotts gave a riveting, layered performance in that epic film.
It's too bad that Cooper is dead.
He could play A-Rod in his biopic.
It is also too bad Don Knotts is dead. He could play Spinelli in the movie verions of "Taken for Granted."
Costner only ever made one good movie, Bull Durham. All the rest, awful.
The most miscast person ever in a Western was Collen Dewhurst in the aforementioned "The Cowboys."
A close second was Monty Clift in "Red River."
Not true. Costner was great in "The Big Chill." The best acting he had ever done.
Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo - now there's a movie.
Eli Wallach does a tremendous job in that one. Every time I see it I'm a little more impressed with his performance. It's totally Tuco's movie, not BLondie's.
Trooper York said...
The most miscast person ever in a Western was Collen Dewhurst in the aforementioned "The Cowboys."
A close second was Monty Clift in "Red River."
No, Clift did pretty good, a contrast to the Duke.
Hawks, 20 years later, said he never regretted the casting and that Clift held his own just fine.
PS Almost 200 comments. Too bad TOP never wanted to discuss Westerns instead of, uh, other stuff.
They'd have broken the triple digit mark.
@Icepick: Did you ever see the Broadway spoof of that one called "The Man Who's Hot, Liberty Valance"?
No, I'll have to look for that one. That sounds more like the off-Broadway stuff, though, the Forbidden Broadway.
I hate Westerns.
It smells very musky and manly in here.
Well the best part about it being almost 200 comments is that it's been done without anybody slinging shit at anyone else.
I mean, other than ed slinging poo at Clint Eastwood. LOL.
It smells very musky and manly in here.
Are you pleased or complaining?
the Ro Hinklin Singers
Grrr, typos. RON Hinklin. Grrr.
Trooper, You have used up today's quota on "commie."
I'll sell him mine on the Commie Exchange. In a pinch I'll just say "Obama voter".
So you weren't talking about Ensign Ro from Star Trek TNG?
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