Here's another crowd-sourcing post, but this time non-technical, and related to Comments Home itself. I'm not going to put forward any ideas myself, but just offer questions as topics for conversation, because I'm very interested to see what people think, and to see what sorts of conclusions and possible solutions they come up with through the interplay of each other's comments.
One of the great things about this community of commenters to which we belong has always been its inclusiveness, in terms of diversity of thought. There are few sites where you can find hard leftists like Robert Cooke, pragmatic leftists like phx, centrists like MadisonMan, libertarians like Revenant, neocons like me, and hard righties like Methadras, all free-form debating in more-or-less good faith, usually at a very high quality level (where it's not just name-calling and argument-by-assertion). (If I've miscategorized any of you, I apologize and feel free to call me an idiot in the comments). I've learned quite a bit from reading opinions that I don't share, supported rationally by eloquent proponents.
First question: Am I right here -- do we want a diversity of thought, rather than an echo chamber?
Second question: Do we have enough lefties? Because I haven't seen much from them in comments.
Third question: How do we get more leftist and progressive commenters, if we don't have enough?
And a request: If you consider yourself to the left of the average Comments Home commenter*, please reveal yourself as such in the comments to this post, and we'll take a quick survey. We'll sedate you, tag you with a transmitter, and release you back into the wild. Maybe there are dozens of you out there lurking. Maybe you can tell us what we can do to lure you into the conversation.
*(I didn't say "if you consider yourself left of center" here, because I don't think anyone does. Communists and right-wing extremists consider themselves centrists; it seems like an extension of the natural tendency to think of oneself as the center of the universe, not necessarily in an egotistical way, but in the sense that you think your own philosophy must be in the center because it's so perfectly reasonable on every issue.)
446 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 446 of 446what if althouse never had comments? . . . How many lives would be different? some a little, some quite a bit
The professor probably the latter, but the commentariate, probably not so different.
I came upon TOP only after being a frequent commenter at other sites, about four in particular. Two of those have since shut down when the bloggers wanted to either focus on book writing or to go to graduate school. But what TOP offered was a greater opportunity for a discussion about legal topics, as well as more explicitly political.
If TOP had never had comments, I would have never ventured over to read it, but would have found other places in the marketplace of ideas to talk about stuff. I'm sure the same could be said of just about everyone here.
Same could not be said of me.
I've done a lot of Internet-jawing at lot of places with a lot of people. For me, nothing stuck like that place with these people.
It is indeed a joke.
It is just not funny.
I would've saved myself some major aggravation, but then again I would've lost out on shameless flirting with a few interesting guys.
Oh, for Pete's sake, I'm sorry I asked. I had to ask who Ace was talking about with the initials TFG, too. For some reason I'd gotten the idea that TOP was a ranking program or something.
As for the other bullsh*t about owing or feeling owed.
I was on usenet for over a decade and the amount of "time" I've got for the person who shows up to lecture the group about how they aren't talking about the right things or providing the information the group is for or anything else is zero. And there is always someone like that... they'll show up to a forum, read a little bit, and then post a gripe about how people aren't talking about the right stuff... as if they're owed the right stuff instead of responsible to contribute the right stuff. Lurk, contribute, or leave. But don't *whine* about it.
No one is owed in either direction. No contract, even implied, is involved in throwing ideas out onto the internet. No one has cause to feel owed gratitude or to be owed entertainment.
The funny thing is that Meade would tell the people here to support the host of this blog or we might lose this forum. Of course that would normally be an obvious call, but when you realize it's Meade saying it, and who he's saying it to, well it's side splitting.
What if Comment Home had never had comments. It would be like one of those all-white paintings in an art gallery. Transgressive even.
And about Natalie Portman. Her face is a study in symmetry. I like that in a woman. She's a gift from Heaven. Jewish Heaven.
Oh, I almost forgot, Meade, I am greatly offended by your "junior high school allusions" crack. All my allusions are 18 or older.
Getting to the point, I had seen a familiar tone in your posts and I just recognized where I had seen it before. whoresoftheinternet. I don't think your're him, but you've got his style down pat. Nice job.
As it turns out Meade was the only real Althouse Hillbilly. Though he is a hired hand, so I don't know if he even counts.
Meade's behavior here proves that Ann was not really interested in "good faith" participation. Further proof that Ann was not interested in "good faith" participation is her acknowledging that her polls were just a way to amuse herself. You know, just playing with her Althouse Hillbillies.
Now that Ann has self-immolated, I find the whole topic quite boring. I would advise everyone to let Althouse and Hillbilly Meade to pointlessly wander around their little shack of a blog, with Ann having only Meade to jabber to, while this newly freed community prospers with true good faith and free exchange of ideas.
Except that he keeps dropping a bag of shit on the doorstep...setting it on fire....ringing the bell...and then he runs away.
Angry people often forget that they are the ones who planted the cactus they sit on.
Withyouanon said...
I was about to say being over at Stepford Stepford had civilised you some.
Now that's good :)
Freeman Hunt said...
Math. It looks like it's starting to need some math.
Withyouanon said...
Is a noogie the next thing up from googol?
Asked and answered.
Paddy O said...
...it just occurred to me. What if althouse never had comments?
Well, then I'd not have two of your fine books.
WC: 93
What Synova said @ 12:36
Meade said...
She certainly wasn't getting enough money from the people who made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place, make off-topic comments, make personal attacks, and waste her time.
How do you know who uses the Amazon portal to buy stuff through her blog? How many times have you said that people who use the portal are not know to you? I think that you're just making shit up.
"How do you know who uses the Amazon portal to buy stuff through her blog? How many times have you said that people who use the portal are not know to you? I think that you're just making shit up."
Ask Lem if he can tell who uses the Amazon portal to buy stuff through his blog. He can't. Unless people self-identify.
Silly
I find it kind of charming.
She certainly wasn't getting enough money from the people who made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place, make off-topic comments, make personal attacks, and waste her time.
Four things:
First. It's an open market. The blog earns what readers and advertisers think it is worth. If you want more money, increase the value of the blog to readers and advertisers.
Second. Her blog's business model is that it is free to readers and offers space to advertisers. If you don't like the way that works, change the business model. Put up a pay wall. Get more advertisers.
Third. We have no idea how much money is "enough money". List her monthly blog-related income for the life of her blog so we have a basis of information with which to make a judgement.
Fourth. Enterprises that don't make "enough money" over several years of effort shut down. The blog hasn't shut down. By that measure, it has in fact made "enough money" to continue on.
PSA: Anyone wants to know what Ann Althouse really said, this past week, about her blog's time with commenters, the kind who hung out there, and the reasons they're now turned off or selectively moderated? Give her and Glenn Loury a listen.
WC: 51
One more time...
Meade said...
She certainly wasn't getting enough money from the people who made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place, make off-topic comments, make personal attacks, and waste her time.
How do you know if "the people who made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place" were buying things or not. You don't know, and if you don't know why are you saying what is obviously BS?
Try and read your own words.
Aridog, would you please just give a brief summation?
People who disliked Althouse wouldn't have touched her Amazon portal with a ten-foot pole. The people who did use it, used it with affection and/or in good faith.
One more question, Meade, do you think that I was one of those that "made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place"?
What we saw last night was the reason Sundays were always the most tumultuous days, "Bloody Sunday." Anyone w/ sense knows to always avoid DWD[Dialing while Drunk]. The CWD[Commenting While Drunk] lasted until shortly before bedtime for our commenter last night.
As I said earlier in this thread, the best way to deal w/ toxic folks is to ignore them. And, I admit that can be tough. Hopefully one will go to Match.com, and the other will walk a dog, leaving this venue to be the pleasant place it has become, not a Bloody Sunday like TOP.
Regarding the money. Myself and others told Larry the way he was going about trying to get the Amazon thing going was antithetical to what any way a real businessman knew it should be done. Of course, he knew everything. He failed. Now he is over here trying that same failed tactic, having seen it fail. It doesn't take a PI to see what is going on, but I have also seen denial to be a powerful force.
I consider some people here quite toxic. They don't have to be drunk to get that way either. They appear here dropping "pearls of wisdom" that somehow resemble small dark objects on a string of words.
AllenS said...
One more question, Meade, do you think that I was one of those that "made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place"?
No.
How do you know if "the people who made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place" were buying things or not. You don't know, and if you don't know why are you saying what is obviously BS?
Try and read your own words.
You try. I didn't say "buying things or not", did I?
AllenS said...
Aridog, would you please just give a brief summation?
Groan. You want to make me watch it again? Nah, if I summarize it the words would then be mine, not hers. Hers are better for the information purpose intended.
WC: 44
I consider some people here quite toxic
The leave and stop subjecting yourself to it.
She certainly wasn't getting enough money from the people who made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place, make off-topic comments, make personal attacks, and waste her time.
WTF does what I highlighted in bold mean? You don't think that means buying things?
She certainly wasn't getting enough money from the people who made it their never-ending purpose to stink up the place, make off-topic comments, make personal attacks, and waste her time.
What are the facts here, Meade?
How much money did she receive from people who DIDN'T make it "their never-ending purpose to stink up the place, make off-topic comments, make personal attacks, and waste her time", versus those who did? What's the breakdown?
Your assertion is BS unless you can prove it with fact. Name the people who didn't contribute enough. Who are they? Show the list.
AllenS ... it really is
just one thing to one folk.
WC: 10
what if althouse never had comments? . . . How many lives would be different? some a little, some quite a bit
I would not have found the web publishing platform I use for my office website.
I would not have found the website that is a very instructive tutorial on fiction writing.
I would not have been exposed to wonderful insights on religion and art and poetry.
My house would be cleaner.
There would be fewer weeds in my yard.
A certain angry bird probably wouldn't be living in Wisconsin.
Lets be fair. Buying things through the Amazon portal doesn't cost anyone one extra dime.
As for those donated, I remember "FreeRepublic" where Jim Robinson would constantly stomp around banning people without warning and shouting it was 'His blog, his rules' then turn around and beg everyone for a donation.
But that behavior never seemed to stop the donations from coming. Or banned Freepers from whining "But I gave money!"
AllenS "How do you know who uses the Amazon portal to buy stuff through her blog? How many times have you said that people who use the portal are not know to you? I think that you're just making shit up."
Meade: "Ask Lem if he can tell who uses the Amazon portal to buy stuff through his blog. He can't. Unless people self-identify."
So....in other words. Yes. You are just making shit up.
People who disliked Althouse wouldn't have touched her Amazon portal with a ten-foot pole. The people who did use it, used it with affection and/or in good faith.
Using or NOT using the Amazon portal has nothing to do with liking Althouse or not liking Althouse.
I refused to use the portal when Meade began hawking the damned thing like a crack addled carnival barker who would follow you around through the stalls trying to get you to play the game. Chortling over the pennies that they were getting. I found THAT attitude, and his constant harping on money over here, distasteful, crass, low rent and offensive. Not just saying WHAT people are buying, which was sort of interesting........ but focusing on the Whoooo Hoooo!!!!! Ka-ching!!!!! revenue that Althouse was getting. Everyone KNOWS that when you buy something through the portal, that there is a kickback to the blog. Althouse may be making way more money in her position as a law professor than many who posted on the comment section. She also may be making less than some as well.
I don't begrudge anyone the ability to make money as long as I am not offended by their ethics. Make money!! I do. We do in our businesses. But.....what we DON'T do is to run around and brag to everyone in town about what we are making. What our profit margin is. How much or how little business you are doing. First of all....that is a bad business practice. Second. It is just low class. I was always taught that you don't talk about your personal financial situation. Bad or Good. It is private.
I have bought items through Amazon here and will continue to do so as long as the ethical atmosphere remains as it is. We don't need to have a skeezy carnival barker trying to give us a lecture.
Today's Mass reading were good, and somewhat on point with these discussions about money and greed.
Vanity of vanities!
Was anything resolved here? I haven't the time to work through 24 hrs of exchange.
El Pollo, I've just read through some of the latest. I don't think so. Lots of good thoughts, though.
I say the ruling class of Comment Home should give Phx or A Resonable Man or Ritmo a post posthaste.
El Pollo - No, other than the usual catharsis, which has become a good thing on a single thread once in a while.
"Was anything resolved here?"
How do you resolve anything on a comments thread?
We're you looking for a peace treaty or something?
Joe Schmoe said...
I say the ruling class of Comment Home should give Phx or A Resonable Man or Ritmo a post posthaste.
Harrogate would be a better selection. Of all the left of center commenters only he both seriously examined his contributions to the Althouse dysfunction and seriously engages the ideas of those across the aisle.
I don't consider myself a hard righty. I'm a right winger, but hard? Mmmm, nope... YMMV.
Inga, I thought we had an expressed agreement that we wouldn't refer to each in any way, shape or form. Was that a lie, a one sided agreement, or is that something you can honor? I've seen you drop your troll bait, but I've actively ignored it because we had an agreement. Do you care about that and going to honor it or not?
People who disliked Althouse wouldn't have touched her Amazon portal with a ten-foot pole. The people who did use it, used it with affection and/or in good faith.
I liked the Althouse blog, but that didn't make me want to use the Amazon portal. I didn't dislike Althouse, but I didn't use the portal either. So there.
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