Sunday, December 8, 2013

Genocide: Mandela's Legacy in South Africa

We are witness to the spectacle of the canonization of Nelson Mandela.  The largest state funeral since that of Winston Churchill is going to be held in South Africa next week.  Flags in America are being flown at half-staff by presidential order, even though Mandela was not an American citizen. 

Bono laments Mandela's death.  Obama insinuates himself into Mandela's life via a photo of himself taken in a prison cell that once held Mandela.  Mandela, we are told by media talking heads, is the South African Martin Luther King, Jr.  Mandela ended apartheid in his country.  Mandela brought the races together.  Mandela ended the horrors of colonial rule in South Africa.  Mandela brought South Africa's race relations into modernity.

What you wont' be told is this truth:  Mandela led a communist movement that is to this day causing genocide in South Africa.  Genocide Watch has been documenting the genocide against whites in South Africa.  White farmers, mostly, and their wives and children are being killed.  Farmers whose families have been in South Africa since the 1600s.  Farmers who are South African by birth and culture.

World Net Daily:
The eyes of the world were on South Africa two decades ago as the apartheid era came to an end and Western governments helped bring the communist-backed African National Congress to power.
Last month, however, when Genocide Watch chief Gregory Stanton declared that white South African farmers were facing a genocidal onslaught and that communist forces were taking over the nation, virtually nobody noticed.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/genocide-looms-for-white-farmers/#k2bVJdwe2fortswQ.99
The eyes of the world were on South Africa two decades ago as the apartheid era came to an end and Western countries helped bring the communist-backed African National Congress to power.
Last month, however, when Genocide Watch chief Gregory Stanton declared that white South African farmers were facing a genocidal onslaught and that communist forces were taking over the nation, virtually nobody noticed
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/genocide-looms-for-white-farmers/#k2bVJdwe2fortswQ.99
Last month, however,  when Genocide Watch chief Gregory Stanton declared that white South African farmers were facing a genocidal onslaught and that communist forces were taking over the nation, virtually nobody noticed.
Surely the United States, long a proponent of the end of South African apartheid worked to end this slaughter.
The silence is so deafening that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton didn’t even publicly mention the problems when she was there last week. Instead, she was busy dancing, pledging billions of dollars and praising the ruling government
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/genocide-looms-for-white-farmers/#k2bVJdwe2fortswQ.99
The silence is so deafening that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton didn't even publicly mention the problems when she was  there last week.  Instead, she was busy dancing, pledging billions of dollars and praising the ruling government.
Farmers and their families are being killed by the most horrific means.  Torture, rape, necklacing, being dragged to death, being forced into boiling water, being disemboweled, hacked apart with machetes.
Last year, South Africa had an astoundingly high murder rate of 31.9 per 100,000 people, according to police statistics. That is almost 20 times the murder rate of Canada, 27 times the rate in the United Kingdom, and more than 30 times the rate in Australia or New Zealand. South Africa’s murder rate is almost twice as high as Rwanda, Chad, Sierra Leone and Zimbabwe.  But for white farmers in South Africa, the murder rate is 99 per 100,000!  That makes farming in South Africa the most dangerous profession in the world—if you are white!
White Afrikaner farmers face unprovoked brutality and disproportionately high numbers of victims who are tortured and mutilated—burned with hot pokers, scalded with boiling water poured down their throats, hacked apart. Yet prominent anc politicians, including President Zuma, sing hate songs in public that have lyrics glorifying the killing of white farmers.
"The other day, when we were having lunch—I couldn’t tell you how bad it is, it would have made you sick," said my South African acquaintance. "About 10 klicks just down the road where I used to live, three blacks broke into a house, tied up the husband, gang-raped and killed the wife, before stabbing him like 14 times and chopping him with a panga [machete] and spreading the parts all over the house. Then they took their young son and drowned him in boiling water."
When you watch Nelson Mandela's funeral, if you watch it, and when you hear American politicians and news reporters glorifying  Nelson Mandela, remember this article from Genocide Watch. 

Nelson Mandela may have once been a hero.  But what Nelson Mandela wrought on the people of South Africa is violent communist genocide.  He is no better than the Robert Mugabes and Idi Amins of nearby African nations.

 
The eyes of the world were on South Africa two decades ago as the apartheid era came to an end and Western governments helped bring the communist-backed African National Congress to power.
Last month, however, when Genocide Watch chief Gregory Stanton declared that white South African farmers were facing a genocidal onslaught and that communist forces were taking over the nation, virtually nobody noticed.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/genocide-looms-for-white-farmers/#k2bVJdwe2fortswQ.99

223 comments:

1 – 200 of 223   Newer›   Newest»
Shouting Thomas said...

We're not supposed to be talking about this.

Blacks are sainted victims. All problems of blacks were caused by whites.

So, whites have it coming. That's the official position.

The Dude said...

It's an Obama wet dream.

Shouting Thomas said...

Crack read this post this morning, and immediately posted his response, which is to scream "Racist" at conservatives in the U.S.

Which, as we know, places the entire subject of black violence against whites in South Africa off limits.

chickelit said...

The rapes, tortures and murders in modern South Africa are just payback for all those years of white-dominated Apartheid. It is quite easy for progressives to like Bono and Obama to look the other way because past meanness justified the ways. I've never heard otherwise out of them, so it must be so.

Speak up, Progressives.

sakredkow said...
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The Dude said...

phx is pro-rape and pro-murder. Yay!

Shouting Thomas said...

@phx

Here in the NYC metro area, just about everybody is expecting a return to the black gang violence that practically made this city unfit for human habitation in the pre-Giuliani era. The attacks in Crown Heights are just the preliminaries.

So, fuck you.

I don't care whether my attitude makes you cringe. I'll be armed when the black thugs try to attack me on the street or invade my house.

So, fuck you.

My public image as you perceive it is of no fucking consequence to me.

sakredkow said...
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chickelit said...

phx said...
You guys are the kinds of conservatives that Althouse calls "Mobys".

It's a more transparent and colorless world these days, phx. You can't embrace the good and deny the bad. You just can't do that in good conscience.

Shouting Thomas said...

@phx

Politics, you moron, is the least of my concerns.

I'm getting ready to defend myself on the streets and in my home, idiot.

AllenS said...

I'm not lowering my flag.

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

I proposed a Devil's Advocate group (these three share your views).

I think you guys are over stating it a bit (although Sixty is right, this is a wet dream for Obama to change the topic from Obamacare and for the Clintons trying to get the black vote going their way in 2016). I believe Mandela did a decent job in transitioning power when he took office and then stepping down. But I do not kid myself about his leftist politics and the failed governance of the ANC. The issue is, what would it have been like if Mandela was not there? My guess worse.

edutcher said...

The people who are blind to his crimes (and the mess that is the current South Africa) are the ones who were also blind to those of Arafat, Mao, Stalin, and the VC.

phx said...

You guys are the kinds of conservatives that Althouse calls "Mobys".

That's the best you got?

sakredkow said...
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Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

Let's see what the world does about this before we watch the left fall all over itself about the passing of Mandela...

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Shouting Thomas said...

Defending my home, my family, and myself isn't a subject for humor, asshole.

Third Coast said...

Mandela was great in "Driving Miss Daisy" and his death so close on the heels of that of Paul Walker makes it even harder to take.

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Shouting Thomas said...

@phx,

Up yours with the racism bullshit.

I know how to defend myself, you worthless bastard.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

Just one word for you, phx

Worthless cocksucking bastard.

Fuck you and the racism jive.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

Another fucking white liberal telling me that self-defense against black gangs is racism.

This is where we're headed, courtesy of moron bastards like phx.

You should be the one who gets it up the ass, phx.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

Your stupidity is so profouind, it will take years and a lot of beatings to rid you of it.

I can help you, you stupid fuck.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

First lesson, phx.

What's really motivating you is cowardice.

You're a fucking coward, not an idealist.

sakredkow said...
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chickelit said...

phx said...
All right, I'm done playing. But you guys do sound like Mobys. I always maintain conservatives like you are an asset to the Dems.

It's a more transparent and colorless world these days, phx. You can't embrace the good about Mandela and deny the bad. You just can't do that in good conscience.

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

While a complete unraveling of South Africa is definitely possible and South African whites are targets of both redistribution and targeted violence---I do not see that as Mandela's legacy. Mandela could have easily been a Mugabe, and he was not.

The rapes, tortures and murders in South Africa are just the status quo which can always be justified under the guise of payback. Because black african gangs are just as bad (actually worse) to their own people. Whites have weapons and do fight back. Young school girls (we are talking grammar and middle school) who are routinely raped because of the belief their virginity cures HIV generally don't have guns.

That said, if I were a white farmer in SA, I would be armed to the hilt, have the best top notch security systems and would be considering how to have a fall back plan to move to the Australia, New Zealand, Canada or Australia.

As for Bono and Paul Simon, they are useful idiots and not the ones facing gangs stealing their property, raping their wives and daughters, and getting pistol whipped or worse while it is going on. Mandela at least moved somewhat center from his leftist positions as President (although he was hardly a moderate politically). Obama always keeps trying to move left when getting pressure (so it is concerning when he says he wish he were dictator)

Unknown said...

I know and am friends with a couple of progressive democrats. They are seasoned travelers who travel the globe. They are hesitant to travel to South Africa because of the ridiculously high crime rate there.

The crime and corruption in South Africa are real. I don't think it's fair to lay all of the on-going problems at Mandela's feet. Though certainly I agree that the pro-democrat hack media will always ignore news that reflects badly on their narrative.

Communism offers nothing but failure, corruption and devastation. The left will never come to terms with the universal failure of communism. They are too busy bashing capitalism and writing their false narrative.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

@phx

Do you really think these pronouncements of yours, from a lowlife cocksucker like you, affect me much?

You're a complete piece of shit.

I'll be happy to sit here for a while longer and tell you as many times as you like.

I've go some time to try to teach you decency, although your stupidity is profound. You're a stupid pupil.

Shouting Thomas said...

Now, phx, my advice is to drop the stupid pretense that you are a fount of wit and shut up.

You're an idiot.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

No, you don't know, phx.

I've encountered your stupidity many times.

You think you're a wit. You are profoundly, deeply stupid.

Take my advice. Shut up.

You're a very confused, stupid coward.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

Silly man.

No, you are here to learn, you fucking moron.

I've been through this shit with many many morons like you.

I'm just about out of patience with you for today.

If you care to cease being the witty fucking idiot, I'll school you.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

You're not ready yet, idiot.

You'll be back around.

Yes, murderous attacks on me and my family do make me angry.

Surprising, isn't it?

See the depths of your stupidity? I'm always amazed by it no matter how many times I encounter it.

The effectiveness of the indoctrination is undeniable.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, phx...

Explain to me the proper witty, indifferent and distanced attitude I should have toward black gang attacks on me, my home and my family.

As I said, your stupidity is profound.

Years ago, I would not have believe it possible.

sakredkow said...
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Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

They are hesitant to travel to South Africa because of the ridiculously high crime rate there.

It is very high in South Africa, although Detroit is even worse.

This is from a tourist group, so FYI, YMMV

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

ST and phx, do you guys need to get room?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So ST, what do you think about the appointment of Bratten as police commissioner?

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

@ARM

It's a positive sign.

People are very afraid here in NYC. Nobody wants to go back to the era of wild gang violence.

@phx

It is about Mandela.

What's going on in South Africa is what will be going on in Brooklyn. That cycle is already at its endgame in Detroit and Chicago.

sakredkow said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

@phx

How stupid are you?

There appears to be no end to it.

sakredkow said...
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Dust Bunny Queen said...

You guys are the kinds of conservatives that Althouse calls "Mobys"

@phx

Then YOU and Althouse need to get a clue. A Moby is a person who goes to a liberal blog to make obnoxious comments masquerading as a conservative in order to make the conservatives look like racists and cast the opposition into a bad light.

A Moby is commenting in 'bad faith'. Pretending to be something that it isn't.

People who comment and make observations that YOU do not agree with does not equate to Moby status.

Merely disagreeing that Mandela is not a saint. Or observing that racism and deaths cause by blacks in South Africa have spiked since the end of Apartheid is not being a Moby. If you disagree with this premise....then why don't YOU argue in good faith and prove those wrong who make the counter argument.

It is politically incorrect it seems to criticize any prominent activist figure of ethnic derivation. Martin Luther King....not a saint. Mandela....not a saint. Che Guevara .....a monster.


BUT....it is fair game on any white or white hispanic figure...isn't it?


Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Iraq has a higher violent death rate than South Africa. Is this part of Bush's legacy?

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

Meade said...
"Crack is a crippled weakling…blah, blah…"

Truth is, if Jesus gay married Ronald Reagan, General Patton, and Lenny Bruce… and they had a baby…
that baby would be Crack.
December 8, 2013 at 7:16 AM

chickelit said...

Merely disagreeing that Mandela is not a saint. Or observing that racism and deaths cause by blacks in South Africa have spiked since the end of Apartheid is not being a Moby. If you disagree with this premise....then why don't YOU argue in good faith and prove those wrong who make the counter argument.

phx isn't going to react to Mandela one way or the other (vide supra).

chickelit said...

AReasonableMan said...
Iraq has a higher violent death rate than South Africa. Is this part of Bush's legacy?

Yes, it is a consequence. But who is trying to whitewash Bush?

Shouting Thomas said...

@phx,

It times some time to penetrate the idiot indoctrination.

You're in the initial stages.

The first response to experiencing cracks in the indoctrination is...

Precisely what you've done here today.

chickelit said...

@ARM: Please state your opinion of whether Mandela should be lauded without criticism.

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

Meade said that above. If Patton brought his dog along, I am pretty sure Meade would have jumped right in.

chickelit said...

Evi L. Bloggerlady said Meade said...
"Crack is a crippled weakling…blah, blah…"

Where? Here?

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

Sorry to go off track with Meade's ranting over at Crack's place, but it was so crazy I had to share.

sakredkow said...
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Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

El Pollo Raylan said...
@ARM: Please state your opinion of whether Mandela should be lauded without criticism.


The obvious comparator is what would have happened in the absence of Mandela. It would have been a blood bath. The world is clearly a better place because of Mandela. There doesn't seem to be any argument otherwise. He has not been in power in SA for a long time and was very old when he died. Was Margaret Thatcher responsible for everything that happened in the UK after she was removed from power?

For me, Mandela was the most impressive world leader of the second half of last century. No one really close.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Yeah, I don't really believe in saints. I'm not that kind of idealist

Then, what is wrong with pointing out the negative results of ending Apartheid or the radicalism and racism of Mandela. Note: I am not saying Apartheid was a good thing nor that it should not have been ended. It was a system as bad if not much worse than segregation in the United States. However, pointing out the negatives that occur with a sudden societal shift is not to be a Moby nor is it racism.

Objectively, actions have consequences. Some good. Some bad. If you or society refuses to acknowledge the bad consequences and insists on glorifying only the positive aspects that either are real or that are wishful thinking, then we will never advance or improve. We will be stuck in a fantasy world with our fingers in our ears going lalalala I can't hear you. The media wanting to ignore or wish away the knock out game, which is a direct result of progressive policies and encouragement by lack of consequences to the perpetrators and actual approbation in some circle is a prime example of this selective blindness. Nothing good will come of selectively praising only the parts you want without examining the whole.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Nothing good will come of selectively praising only the parts you want without examining the whole.

I might add, that this is how we ended up with the incompetent Obama Presidency and the disastrous Obamacare debacle that will permanently cripple the US economy.

Refusal to adequately examine the man and passing the bill to see what is in it.

sakredkow said...
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Dust Bunny Queen said...

Just because I don't believe in Mandela (or anyone else) as saint doesn't mean I have to go along with your right-wing Tea Party fantasies about Mandela's radicalism or racism, or that "Mandela's Legacy in South Africa" is "Genocide."

Of course not. NO one expects you to agree with opinion. BTW. Do NOT put words into MY mouth.

What is expected of a commenter who comments in good faith (not a Moby) would be that you don't call people names who disagree with you and that you do not stereotype all who frequent a blog or comment. It would also be expected and hoped that you use logical arguments to prove your case. If you do not agree and think that people are wrong, prove them to be so.

Meade said...

"The media wanting to ignore or wish away the knock out game, which is a direct result of progressive policies and encouragement by lack of consequences to the perpetrators and actual approbation in some circle is a prime example of this selective blindness."

Elytte and Miranda Barbour don't play the knockout game. Why? Is it selective racial blindness?

Michael Haz said...

@phx - I notice that none of your comments contain actual facts that refute what I wrote above.

Bring the facts, or just go away.

Chip Ahoy said...

You do know that Moby means boldly entering enemy territory and openly showing false concern.

Nothing in this post does that. Nothing in the comments does that. Saying so does not make sense.

Except for one. Where is the comment showing concern? The one about posts like this helping Democrats, that's where.

The term Moby fits only one person, one situation here, the person saying it. The charge, "You are Moby" reads quite clearly, "I am Moby."

See? That's not even clever. It is the exact thing my stupid ass toxic twisted little sister would do, so fucking obvious, how she haunts me still, her obviousness does, wherever I go whatever I do, I see my little sister everywhere. Beverly, knock it the fuck off.

Great post, Michael Haz. I did not know all of that. And now I do. You sure did describe those atrocities.

While reading I think I got the irrational excitement. This uproar as if George Washington died again, is because Mandela is not that. Amazing. He could have been much worse but instead was normal and a good Christian besides. A model for all. I'm so filled with glee over this and up to my gills in good-feeling toward humanity that my impulse is to shower gold upon Obama for being in that cell and by extension all similar Democrats because, really, Party is everything, all this for not being like the anc, and by being more like George Washington (also somewhat of a terrorist) except only better, black this time, bending that fucking arc of the moral universe toward justice.

sakredkow said...
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Paddy O said...

PHX is right. Althouse is calling people mobys who hold these sorts of positions. I think that was more of a dig at Althouse.

PHX is also right there's a reality with how people talk about Mandela.

He's an icon. Good or bad, the reality is that as an icon he represents much more than his own life. And when you talk about Mandela, it's not the person that matters, it's what the icon is about.

Mandela wasn't perfect and if we're only dealing with binary good and bad, he has a history.

Yet, in his later years he should be commended. He pushed a way of peace that was entirely counter to so many. A bit like Lincoln and Reconstruction. Find a way of living together Very unlike Mugabe. For goodness sake, he left his wife because she represented the old way he did things.

The trouble with Mandela was that it wasn't enough, the icon is pushed to the side by people who wanted only the old way, not a change in the system merely an inversion of oppressed and oppressor.

There's a lot of discussion worth having, but it's not, I think, helpful to dismiss Mandela's role and contribution to a different way, one that was bringing hope in the 1990s.

Making Mandela into some evil figure may sound like it's reminding us of history but it's really just alienating.

And it has the potential to be devastating at a time when Republicans and conservatives are making headway.

Your rhetoric will be used against you in a court of public opinion. And with someone like Mandela, who is an icon, it's much better, I think, to emphasize the iconic elements and point towards a way of hope rather than adding yet another meaningless defying of liberal idolization.

There are aspects we can and should celebrate about Mandela's life and role in addressing what can only be described as the evils of apartheid.

sakredkow said...
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Anonymous said...

He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Flaming Tire.

YoungHegelian said...

@Paddy,

Good post.

The problem I have with your "deal with the icon" idea is that it just has conservatives playing the post-modern game of manipulating a discourse rather than knowing & organizing the messy & contingent historical facts into a coherent whole.

I'm not saying that "historical facts" are in themselves going to support a conservative point of view, because that isn't the case. But, postmodernism doesn't want to deal with facts. It denies the existence of messy, contingent facts. It wants to paper over contingency with a "narrative", so that a chosen political end can be achieved.

If we deal with "icons", we're on the postmodernist's turf. If we can drag them back into history, we have a chance to show that their "kumbaya" discourse is just one more "will to power".

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Holy shit, is that an appearance from lawn boy?

What's the matter, not having enough fun in the boxwine drinking cunt's little censorship playground?

To the topic at hand, I do not place much of the blame on Mandela for the current conditions in South Africa. If nothing else, Mandela should be praised for stepping down from power in a democratic transition in an area of the world filled with people holding onto power until they die or a coup.



Michael Haz said...

How is the idea that genocide is bad even remotely a conservative versus liberal disagreement?

Genocide is bad, period. And it is happening in South Africa now. Black on white, black on black. To deny that this is part of Mandela's legacy is to deny reality.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Holy shit, is that an appearance from lawn boy?

He just stopped by to say.....SQUIRREL----> !

William said...

Mandela is one of history's good guys. South Africa is going the way of Zimbabwe but that's more a contradiction than a continuation of his legacy. Perhaps, at the present moment, he is being over praised but he deserves his moment of glory. Unlike Che, Ho Chi Minh, Lenin, Daniel Ortega, Trotsky and a long list of other left wing icons, he really was man of honor and decency. Perhaps this praise of Mandela will cause some of the scumbags within the ANC to rethink their goals and actions. Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

Paco Wové said...

But why is it Mandela's legacy, specifically? How could the transition have been done better?

I just don't see how this is Mandela's fault, for pretty much the reasons that E.L.Bloggerlady has already stated.

Anonymous said...

RE: "Genocide is bad, period."

A Quick Glance at Google Shows That There are Several Heavy Metal Bands Named "Genocide" in Full or in Part. Maybe They Are Not All Bad; I Didn't Listen to Them.

William said...

There were lots of things wrong with Czarist Russia. Every bad thing said about it was true. And it was a better place to live than Bolshevik Russia.......Apartheid South Africa was indefensible. But that doesn't mean things can't get worse........It's a melancholy fact that a monster like Charles Taylor provoked far less publicity and denunciation than Botha and Ian Smith.

rcocean said...

Fact is: Liberals don't care about the Cuban dictatorship, human rights abuse in China, the white farmer deaths in S/A, or the victims of "globalization" all over the world.

Liberals are very selective in their "outrage." They'd rather rant about Fake hate crimes or the Tea-party.

rcocean said...

Or Trayvon Martin

(Yes, liberals on Web are *Still* talking about that Martyr).

rcocean said...

Too bad we don't have a 21st Century Mencken to puncture all this blather about St. Mandela

rcocean said...

Just on body count alone Czarist Russia was 100 times better than Stalinist Russia.

Stalin made out well though.

Aridog said...

The post topic, by Michael Haz, posed a valid point for analysis and/or refutation if possible. That did not happen.

A pissing contest happened.

Over at Legal Insurrection commenter "Nick405" said...

People act as if ending white rule was the be all, end all problem.

That's another good point. Is that what we are to celebrate?

Did any, at all, "melding" take place, as so often praised?

Or is that the topic never to be mentioned?

Who else participated in the end of apartheid in SA? Did Mandela do it all? No white people participated? What?

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Apparently we are not the only ones asking uncomfortable questions.

Just saying.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Paddy O does make a good point.

And it has the potential to be devastating at a time when Republicans and conservatives are making headway.

This is just the kind of thing Obama thrives on... lets not give it to him.

Like Bush says... let the historians argue over it.

Aridog said...

Who of any portent is asking uncomfortable questions?

Really. An "Icon" is being manufactured. Facts are immaterial or just not discussed.

For the rest of us, let me channel Hillary...he's dead, so "at this point, what difference does it make?"

Let the celebrants have their day, because, it certainly beats the days they usually have in SA.

When Mandela tee-shirts outsell "Che" tee-shirts, get back to me.

Aridog said...
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Aridog said...

Lem said ...

This is just the kind of thing Obama thrives on... lets not give it to him.

I agree with you.

But, HA!...like Obama isn't already off and running with the chalice of President Princess Peacock and spending every minute memorializing Mandela by injecting and comparing himself to him.

All hail the Temple of Me, Myself, & I!

Trooper York said...

Great post Michael.

But it raises uncomfortable questions that are not allowed in the current politically correct world that we live in.

I think the best thing for us to do is to let the many fans of Nelson Mandela celebrate him and indulge in an orgy of adulation until they come in their pants. Sort of like when Michael Jackson died.

Trooper York said...

The answer for the white farmers of South Africa is the same as it ever was. The same as it was for the middle class of Detroit.

Move it or lose it.

It's that simple.

Trooper York said...

William Bratton is a fraud of the first water. His so called "innovation's" were actually the work of Jack Marple who never gets the credit.

He has become a sort of hired gun for liberal establishments to hire a "Law and Order Policeman" who is in effect a tool. He is like a pet conservative who appears in the NY Times or on cable TV.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

I also believe that some of the overboard adulation serves to fill soap opera air time... they cant justify talking about a relatively minor historical figure for over a week. They cant, so they have to inflate him.

Sad. Undignified. Political Prop.

Anything, but, face the disasters inflicted by the Obamacare train wreck, not to mention the ones on their horizon that has to be keeping them up at night.

Trooper York said...

You don't need to worry about it Lem. It is a fart in the wind. It will blow over.

The millions upon millions who will lose their insurance because of Obama will not. The fact the more people will be un-insured now then before Obamacare was passed will be something even the corrupt lapdogs of the mainstream media can not ignore. Or the Dems in Congress who want to get re-elected. They will do what rats always do.

Flee the sinking ship.

Trooper York said...

Think about the Mandela festivities as just about the same thing as when Princess Di croaked.

Maybe Elton John can write a song.

"A Burning Tire in the Wind."

Lydia said...

From a "A white South African's memories of Mandela" written this past June:

"This is a man who in 1995 visited Betsie Verwoed, the 94-year-old widow of one of the prime architects of apartheid, and a man who invited his white jailor as a VIP guest to his inauguration as the country's first black president."

Those gestures alone make him a great man in my book.

Chip S. said...

Evi is right. The killing isn't Mandela's legacy. His legacy is that there are still any white SA farmers at all.

Has the situation gotten worse since Mandela retired? Yes. How is that on him? How well do you expect a 90 yr old to restrain a whirlwind?

My white SA friend says, "Nelson Mandela is the reason I'm alive today." Doesn't mean she's not grateful to be in the US now, or that she thinks there's any similarity b/w Mandela and Obama.

I think it's highly appropriate to honor the man upon his death. And I don't think that means I'm a commie lover.

Amartel said...

Yeah, it's going to be just like Princess Di. Emotional parasite orgasm which douchebags like Obama will totally appropriate for their own selfish purposes. I honestly didn't know about the scope of the ongoing violence against blacks and whites in South Africa. I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was Zimbabwe bad. Nobody ever talks about it and there's certainly rarely any mention in the press and then it's just framed as business as usual in Africa. Racism and genocide are okay so long as they're propping up a government the press (the left) favors.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
I think it's highly appropriate to honor the man upon his death.


Commie Lover!

Trooper York said...

You are right. It is business as usual.

If you point it out you are a racist.

If it is white farmers getting murdered or little old Jewish ladies getting punched in the head by thugs. If you mention it you are a racist.

I think it is best to ignore people who think like that. You will never convince them. Until the terrorist come to put them in the pot and boil them alive.

But then even when that happens they will still be making excuses.

Trooper York said...

Mandela is a world historical figure. Like Mao or Princess Di or George Michael.

Lowering the flag is not appropriate but what can expect for the likes of Obama.

He wouldn't go to the funeral of Margaret Thatcher or even send Clueless Joe Biden.

The next world historical figure who will die and be honored by Obama is most likely Fidel Castro.

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Meade said...

Trooper York said...
"If it is white farmers getting murdered or little old Jewish ladies getting punched in the head by thugs. If you mention it you are a racist."

Well, yeah, in fact, if you only focus on and mention violence committed by individuals of one particular race or if you only focus on and mention violence committed upon individuals of another particular race (as Trooper York does), then, yes, by definition: you are being racist. (Or, as some english speakers prefer to say, racialist.)

Chip S. said...

For anybody's info, when Mandela was president he instituted a Rural Protection program, which coordinated police and self-defense forces to combat attacks on farmers. This program was ended 4 years after he was no longer in office. I don't think you can use farm killings to indict Mandela.

Meade said...

And yet racists feel they can and do use farm killings to indict Mandela.

Michael Haz said...

Meade - Here's a challenge: If you believe the topics regarding the knockout game, and the genocide in South Africa aren't being told correctly, then tell them the way you believe they should be told. Post up an answer here, or direct us to a response you post on your own blog.

By calling others racist because of their comments on these two topics you are tacitly admitting there is a racial component to the stories. You threat negate your own assertion.

But I have an open mind, so write an article that convinces me you are right.

Michael Haz said...

Meade, you'll notice that I cited murder stats for black and white South Africans in my post.

Trooper York said...

Well of course you don't have to dwell on the many attacks by whites on blacks because they are covered ad nauseam by the main stream media. Of course they almost never happen. Especially when viewed in the context of the numbers of the population. So they have to make them up.

Like phony rape charges against white frat boys at Duke. Flyers posted by Anti-bias committees of various colleges. Nooses on the doors of college professors that they put their themselves.

Recognizing and talking about facts makes you a racist. Living in a fantasy land makes you a good politically correct American.


Chip S. said...

I speak only for myself, but what I say is that the more that SA gets back to following the way Mandela governed, the better things will be for white and black citizens.

The alternative to Mandelaism in SA isn't Jeffersonianism, it's disaster .

Meade said...

"Recognizing and talking about facts makes you a racist."

No, Trooper, that is not what makes you racist. What makes you racist is the way you selectively use race and racial stereotypes to meet your ends.

We all get that you are very proud of your "political incorrectness" but that pride and that schtick does not mask your bigotry as much as you think it does.

Just saying.

Trooper York said...

There is no unit of measure that can quite calculate exactly how little I care what you think Meade.

We have successfully ignored each other for the past few months buddy. Let's keep that up. Okey-dokey?

Chip S. said...

The point isn't whether the murder rate in SA is high or not. It's whether Mandela is to blame for it.

I'm not aware of any facts that support that support the idea that he is responsible, but I'm aware of many facts that contradict it.

Trooper York said...

I would just like to add that I do not think that Michael Haz is a racist.

That is the point that is important.

Meade said...

Trooper York said...
"I would just like to add that I do not think that Michael Haz is a racist."

Very open minded of you, Trooper, to allow into your private clubhouse even people you don't think are racists.

Shouting Thomas said...

Meade is making a habit of calling people racist.

Living off the old lady is making him feel pretty important.

Meade was appointed by Al Sharpton last month to protect the black peeps, because he loves them so much, Troop.

You can't love the blacks more than Meade.

Shouting Thomas said...

Meade, why don't you stop making a fucking ass out of yourself?

Things must not be going so well at home.

Althouse just put up a post to try to make you feel better. You're still a man! Even if you're living off of her.

Shouting Thomas said...

I want to let you know, Meade, just how proud us men out here are of you fer not being scared of them strong women.

Michael Haz said...

Meade - do you accept my challenge? Or are you just a troll who says crap and can't or won't back it up.

Using everything you know about my life and background, prove that I'm racist. Cite the facts. I suggest you sit quietly for a few minutes and think about your answer.

Shouting Thomas said...

@Michael,

For Christ's sake, don't encourage the jackass.

"Racist" is just a name calling tactic for pretentious, sanctimonious bastards.

The old lady's money has gone to Meade's head. Her sanctimony is being transferred, too.

For my part, I run and hide every time I see one of the strong wimmens coming around the corner.

Trooper York said...

You guys just have to realize that Sunday night is traditionally a very dangerous time in Madison. It is when all the epic meltdowns begin. Sitting at home drinking and stewing in regret will only lead to bad things.

We should be charitable and leave this kind of thing to obscure and failing enterprises such as "The Macho Response" or the blog we need not name.

Pardon the pun but you will never get a "straight" response Michael. Just more politically correct nonsense.

Michael Haz said...

And Meade, don't neglect to mention the skin color of my son in law, and the 146 (of 185) employees I hired who were black. Don't overlook a thing. Back up your statement.

Chip S. said...

I've been reading about the Hiss case recently, and am thinking that racism is the new communism.

We know that McCarthy was just throwing shit against the wall, but we also know that there really were commies in the govt.

The way to avoid the McCarthyite trap isn't to try to figure out how "red" someone is, but to point how they're wrong about stuff.

There really are racists, but what we ought to focus on is figuring out what's objectively true or false. That'll take care of the racism all by itself.

virgil xenophon said...

Good God! Is Meade here playing dog-in-the-manger again? Meade has no dog in this fight but insists on barking and biting because? Sound of own voice? Sense of moral superiority?

By Meade's "racial" logic when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor we should have dropped bombs on (brown ) Mexico and (white) Canada as well as the yellow SOBs
just to prove we weren't "racist."

Whatever the answer is I don't care--just go away..

Unknown said...

Speaking of communism- I'm certain American progressive neo-communists and the on-air talent at NBC/MSNBC are having a hard time comprehending this.

"Hang the commie."

chickelit said...

phx:

Maggie didn't have the stature of Nelson Mandela.

No it's more black and white

Maggie Thatcher was white and was a past leader of a regime Obama learned to loath and snub. Mandela was black and an African leader. It's really a no-brainer.

chickelit said...

Notice how Meade focuses his scorn on Trooper York; much like Titus dwells on me on Meade's wife's blog. It's pretty much all personal with Meadehouse.

Trooper York said...

Thatcher is not someone Obama could respect or honor.

He will not be engaged until one of his personal heroes passes like Castro or Mugabe.

Trooper York said...

It's Sunday night follies Chickie. The wine flows and the whine follows along naturally like a date with Snookie gets you herpes.

I expect we will get a visit from Titus soon.

Michael Haz said...

I wonder how Meade feels while he "moderates" comments made by men over on his wife's blog. Must not be much fun cutting out the really interesting comments just to keep peace at home.

He's a credit to his gender.

Trooper York said...

Things tend to go in cycles. Repetition is all.

Posts bashing men. Furious pushback. Deletions and closing of the comment section.

It is all so July of 2013.

I thought we had finally got past that?

Aridog said...

I thought we had finally got past that?

Whot?

The Dude said...

Poor Meade.

Aridog said...

Poor Meade.

Who?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I think it's highly appropriate to honor the man upon his death. And I don't think that means I'm a commie lover.

Of course it is proper to honor a life that made a difference and a positive difference in many ways. What is not appropriate is to fawn and whitewash as if they didn't exist the negative things that affect many hundreds of thousands of people.

I don't mean that we should stand up and bash Mandela. He should be honored and remembered for the great and good things. However, the over the top glorification and deification of a man, a normal human being, who has many flaws is disconcerting to me. When we can't point out that the Emperor's clothes might have a few gravy stains without being called racist and other names, we have lost the ability to reason and to be discerning about ANYTHING.

sakredkow said...
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virgil xenophon said...

@DBQ/

But of course that's EXACTLY the point. The left wants to obviate ANY criticism of ANY kind--PERIOD-- of their ideological shibboleths and political icons via moral shaming..

Chip S. said...

What is not appropriate is to fawn and whitewash as if they didn't exist the negative things that affect many hundreds of thousands of people.

No one here has established any direct link from Mandela to these "negative things". That's b/c there aren't any.

Mandela is revered by South Africans of all races. And it's not b/c SA whites are unfamiliar w/ his early days or w/ the current situation.

I do not understand the apparent need of so many of my fellow righties to bitch about people saying too many nice things about this man.

Darcy said...

Interesting post, Michael. I'm embarrassed to admit that it's clear that I've only paid attention to the adoration of Mandela for as long as I've been aware of him. Coincidentally, I just did some reading today to inform myself of his history.

I do admire that, whatever his involvement in violence in SA, he apparently came to speak very candidly about having made a lot of mistakes and that he should not be called a hero. I was relieved to read that.

Interestingly, I asked my son what he knew about Mandela and his comments made me realize that he had a much better grasp on Mandela's history than I'd feared.

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chip S. said...

Here's a pretty good post about Mandela The Communist and his legacy.

(via the notorious lefty site Hot Air)

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael Haz said...

......extremist conservatives...

@phx - I get that anyone you disagree with is labeled an extremist.

I offer you the same challenge I offered Meade: Using everything you know about my life and background, prove that I'm racist. Cite the facts.

I put up this post in hope that it would engender conversation, not mere trolling and name calling. Rise to the challenge. Write a carefully thought-out response to my post that defends your point of view.

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael Haz said...

@phx - I'll add one other thing. If you believe that I am an extremist, then please cite the things I've said that you believe to be "extreme". Show me the specifics.

Trooper York said...

The problem is when you raise uncomfortable truths you will get called names.

I go back to the example of Princess Di. She too was an example of a symbol who meant something to people and who was
beyond criticism. They are both cult figures so it stands to reason that cults have arisen around them.

It serves no purpose to point out uncomfortable facts.

You might as well tell a tweenage girl that Justin Beiber is not really an artist.

At this point what difference will it make?

Michael Haz said...

phx said One thing's for sure - a lot of you guys see race a lot more than I do.

Which of us guys see race a lot more than you do? Name names. And isn't that remark s clever way of saying "I'm not a racist, but you guys are"?

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shouting Thomas said...

If you're gonna play Haz, up your game.

If you're gonna play, moron, get off the fucking high horse and quit pretending that you have some sort of authority.

You're just another fucking asshole on the web.

You're a racist. I'm the one who decides, moron, not you.

And, I've decided that you are a racist. Prove you're not.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael Haz said...
please cite the things I've said that you believe to be "extreme".


The title of the post.

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael Haz said...

@phx, I apologize if it sounds like I'm picking a fight with you; I'm not trying to do that. What I am trying to do is get commenters on this blog to discuss a topic (1) without name calling, and (2) by actually discussing the point made in the post, not some side trip.

We all benefit from that, and this blog becomes a lot more interesting. If you were at Althouse during its nascent stage, you'll remember that that is what her blog did when it was new. I want to have a similar feeling here.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, phx, prove you aren't a racist.

I say you are a racist. A Klan member, in fact.

Michael Haz said...

@ARM - Make your case.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael Haz said...
@ARM - Make your case.


Chip S. has already made it, with links and personal anecdotes.

Meade said...

I never called Michael Haz a racist either. I don't understand why he's being so defensive - offering "challenges".

Chip S. made a pertinent observation I share: "I do not understand the apparent need of so many of my fellow righties to bitch about people saying too many nice things about this man." Mandela was a great man who lived a great life. Last thursday he died. But some people can't seem to wait even until his body is buried in the ground to bash him and his legacy. Is that really decent?



sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shouting Thomas said...

@Meade

I'm not anybody's "fellow."

Where did you ever get such a foolish idea?

I have zero allegiance to any political faction, and I'm rapidly getting tired of you puffing out your chest and issuing your sanctimonious bullshit opinions about what we fellows ought to think.

I'm not trying to influence political policy or elections.

As I told your wife, I'm an outlaw. You're becoming increasingly tedious and obnoxious with your tendency to proclaim that other men are racist, sexist and homophobic. The step up in status your wife has provided you is making you into an asshole.

Shouting Thomas said...

@phx,

I said, you are a racist. And I mean it.

Get busy and prove you aren't. That's your assignment.

You're failure to provide proof to the contrary is an admission of guilt.

sakredkow said...
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Trooper York said...

Usually when you bait something you stick a worm on it.

That's kind of gay dude. Just sayn'

chickelit said...

One thing's for sure - a lot of you guys see race a lot more than I do.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that Thatcher's politics was the more repulsive factor in Obama's eyes. Things she did like help to bring down the Soviet Union chafed him.

Trooper York said...

Just to give the girly men something else to complain about.

Chip S. said...

Frito Pendejo says..."Go away! I'm 'batin'!"

Shouting Thomas said...

In respect to Meade's authoritative labeling of other men, now that he has taken a step up in class, I provided Althouse with this definition of feminism today:

Feminism is men of a higher class trying to deflect the bitching of their women onto men of a lower class. Men do this in the hope of acquiring more pussy and money for themselves, and to appease the bitching of their women.

Meade plays the game instinctively, doesn't he?

sakredkow said...
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sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chip S. said...

I'm gonna check my computer for malware, b/c this thread makes me think I've been redirected to the Bizarro Internet.

sakredkow said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Darcy said...

@phx
I don't think it's a stretch or extreme to view Obama as race-obsessed, if not racist himself.

Chip S. said...

porn sites, mostly

Michael Haz said...

Mrs. Haz made me come into the house after she caught me in the garage acting out answers to conflicting opinions between me and myself.

Amartel said...

Goddamit. Can the truth be written about a lefty icon? Not if the emotional parasites have their way. The need for the emotional high of ragey moral superiority must be satisfied and nothing satisfies like a good ole raaacism accusation. If you're going to call someone a racist you need to show your work and your work better damn well show actual racism. No crack logic, no implications and references never explained, no exiting the argument when you start to lose. Fuck that. If you can't do that then you are per se not serious and can't be taken seriously.
JUST SAYING.
Grace!
Cheers!
Enjoy the decline!
Lol!

Shouting Thomas said...

@Chip

At least somebody has been doing something constructive with their time today.

In my defense, I did an hour of yoga and an hour on the bicycle.

Chip S. said...

That last comment was @phx, but if Darcy's got a porn site, I may never be back here.

Michael Haz said...

201!!

Chip S. said...

Once more, I must disagree.

(In case it's not clear, that's meant as a humorous remark. I often have to explain that to people, which is why I don't do standup.)

Shouting Thomas said...

Every last one of you mofos is a racist SOB.

You must prove otherwise to my satisfaction.

That should get us to 300 comments!

chickelit said...

phx said...

So you think, even though there are things more repulsive to him, being white is a "repulsive factor" in Obama's eyes?

This is another reason why I think you are one of the rightie extremists on this site, and that you think about race more than I do.


It's hard for me to fathom the depth of Obama's antipathy towards Britain without treading on issues related to the topics here: residual hatred for white colonialism and a general lack of forgiveness. These were attitudes which Mandela eventually rose above. Our President hasn't even begun that journey.

chickelit said...

(In case it's not clear, that's meant as a humorous remark. I often have to explain that to people, which is why I don't do standup.)


I can remember when you had a sense of humor.

Good times, they were. :)

Trooper York said...

It is funny what posts get a lot of comments.

deborah said...

Anyway, Obama didn't go to Gettysburg, but of course he'll prance at the Mandela funeral.

The Dude said...

Michelle's family lost at Gettysburg, so she told him not to go.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Shouting Thomas said...
Every last one of you mofos is a racist SOB.


This is possibly true. John Derbyshire used to point to this test as one way to see. It is worthwhile doing. There are a range of tests the 'Race IAT' is the one relevant to this discussion.

sakredkow said...
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Trooper York said...

Garage is always full of conflicting opinions.

I mean he loves roadkill but it is bad for his waistline.

He wants to be a winner but he roots for the Packers.

He is very liberal but he only buys German cars.

Conflicts. It's tough.

Trooper York said...

The only thing he is sure of is that Walker is going to jail.

Any day now. Any day.

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