Via Reddit - Top voted comments...
"Denise Way, Justin's mom, said that the detective relayed to her that 'they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn't—so they shot him because that's what we do.'”
Not including all the other issues with the police, the day has come where a cop's first weapon is the gun, and not words. No negotiating, no waiting period for a response from a drunk depressed person, just killing people in their beds for having a really bad day.
I truly hope that soon we seriously start to not tolerate this. We need cops that are able to think for themselves, not ones that use a defined criteria on when to kill someone.
This family needs to seek a wrongful death suit. Saying "I hope cops change their ways" isn't going to change anything.
"Way’s parents said they do not ever want to call the police again—for anything."
If the good and responsible cops don't start "policing" their own, this shit is just going to get worse: More citizens are going to be killed, more cops are going to be killed, and there's going to be a schism between the two groups wider than even the "white v. black" schism has ever been.
22 comments:
The photo of him standing in front of the wall panels with his body aligned with the gap between panels makes him appear to be sporting an uptstanding Mohawk, but no.
Buzzcut. The easiest of all cuts.
Except when blended from shaved at edges to any noticeable length on top.
"Just do the best you can blending the thinning area. And do whatever you must with that swirl back there, and that bit that sticks up, chop it off or leave it I don't mind being a cartoon. And don't be alarmed by the triangular dent in the top of the skull when you get there, that's just leftover from surgery, and don't press the squishy bit too hard in there either or you'll touch brain underneath and that hurts. And that band of gray that goes around like a shiny laurel wreath, just shave through that all around, or maybe start there. Just do the best you can with the buzzcut. You're a doll. Bless your heart."
He could have been tased, or pepper sprayed, or simply spoken with until he was calm enough to give up his knife. Most PDs have people trained for this situation.
It's just frustrating that now we are going to have more rioting.
Only extensive training could convince a man to shoot in such a situation or many of the others we see like this. Training, policy, and police culture are the problem. It needs scrapped and redone top to bottom. Cops are quickly becoming the most dangerous people in our society - the last people you want to call.
Recently, due to a new dog in the pack who was a little unstable, and some mistakes by the people watching them, all my dogs got into a big fight while I was at work, and it was pretty bad. The people called me and I said throw water on them, but don't touch them. That worked on some of them, but not all, and it was bloody and still going by the time I got home 10 minutes later. They stopped on command as soon as I got home, but it was thousands in vet bills, and the largest dog, a pit bull, did not survive being attacked by all the others including, a lab, a, pit and two small cattle dogs. One person who was there was about to call the cops when it started, but another person stopped her. If the cops had come, the most likely outcome would be that many, if not all, the dogs would have been shot on sight, even if I was there, and definitely if I was not. Instead, half of those dogs have been adopted to great homes since then. Often times police will only make a situation worse, because in a crisis, the last thing you usually need is fearful armed men with bad training looking out primarily to protect themselves. Things have to be pretty bad before adding them to the mix is an improvement. This is all relatively new, and was not the case 20 years ago, or even 10.
They had to kill him in order to save him.
Eleanor Bumpers, Gidone Busch an Orthodox Jew and Mohamed Bah were all shot and killed by the NYPD. An emotionally disturbed person is at risk when the cops are not trained to handle this situation.
A terrible tragedy. It should be investigated by the proper authorizes and if anyone is at fault they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Something seems weird... How did ony minutes elapse between a non emergency phone call and a SWAT team response?
I witnessed just such a shooting in New Orleans on St Charles near the CBD about six months after Katrina. Was a black businessman in coat & tie who was a bi-polar off his meds. Was brandishing a knife and totally encircled by about 20 police. Same deal. When he wouldn't relinquish or drop the knife they shot and killed him--no Tazer, no wait him out until EMS could arrive--nothing. And it was obvious to even a child he was a confused man in need of psychological/medical help. A totally senseless death.
And to the defense that a man with a knife can still charge and kill a man even if shot if he is within 20 ft I would only suggest that they back away and give him greater room. In this case they weren't in any kind of limiting enclosure, but out on a four lane Blvd with a some 20 ft neutral ground--plenty of space to give ground.
Lem said ...
... there's going to be a schism between the two groups wider than even the "white v. black" schism has ever been.
Regrettably, that "schism" is already upon us. This case is an example. virgil xenophon's citation of the "Tueller" distance in what he witnessed is apt...moving back outside of 21 feet and you have room to talk, not shoot. Given that some blacks have a point about over aggressive policing, and how media seems unable to separate it from good police work, I am surprised this article made news at all. The dude was white. Because of stupid reporting and "political" charging now when the police are called, they will do one of two things: ignore you...or come on like gang busters. No one is identifying the good from the bad before hand. Are we all at fault?
I always think back to the 90s when one of Willie's big selling points was how he was gonna put an extra 100,000 cops on the street.
How many of those cops were Diversity hires? How many just to fill the hundred grand?
Were they as well-trained as before? As disciplined?
I understand murders of officers are way up in the last few years, which could make anybody a little jumpy, but is this another object lesson in Less Is More?
It was a big knife.
and
It was a rough week for potential suicides in St Augustine.
Might be worth noting the dates. Two officers were murdered during a traffic stop in Mississippi on May 11.
Very few cities took Bubba's offer of new cops. The program funded new cops during training and their first year of service, then the funding ran out. Mayors who read the bill backed away from it because at the end of the funding they would be forced to either continue the funding out of local taxes, or lay off the new officers. Neither was politically expedient, so few new cops were hired, and pols could crow about the wonderful program they passed.
As to the case we are discussing, I want more information. Something about this just doesn't sound right. Maybe it happened has it was described, I don't know, but it seems like part of the story is missing.
Lem said...
It's just frustrating that now we are going to have more rioting.
He's a whitey, so no rioting.
For the heck of it I searched for "Justin Way" on Bing. With a case like this there should be a lot of media coverage, right? Except there isn't. In the first fifty or so entries there is only one story about the death of Justin Way, and that is a couple of paragraphs on Daily Kos that quote a different story. Nothing shows up form national media, from St Augustine, FL media, etc. There are a few streets named Justin Way, a few MDs named Justin Way, a few LinkledIn entries for various Justin Ways, etc., but no news about the shooting of a suicidal Justin Way. Odd, eh? Maybe my search-fu skills aren't up to speed, but still.
So there's that. And doesn't it strike you as unusual that police officers would rush into a house with "assault rifles" in response to a call of a drunk man threatening suicide? Handguns would have been sufficient. Also, the Daily Beast article shows cops with rifles and riot shields. I call bullcrap on that.
Your mileage may vary. But remember, there are sick bastards and bitches who want nothing more tht to create a false narrative about how bad cops are.
*TIME PASSES*
Before posting this, I searched the St. Augustine newspaper for 'Justin Way" and found this article.
Here's a quote:
Information such as what Way did to cause the deputies to fire and why he was despondent have yet to emerge as the case remains in its infancy. Police officers involved in shootings can’t be compelled to give a statement before consulting with their union representatives, as is the case in Way’s death.
Sheriff’s Office spokesman Cmdr. Chuck Mulligan said more details may come out soon as the agency decides whether to release the 911 call, the names and backgrounds of the deputies and other information.
But Mulligan said the deputies apparently had a reason to fire simultaneously.
There's a photo of the knife.
I'd say keep your powder dry on this case until there are more facts.
Aridog said...
Are we all at fault?
I would submit that no we are not at fault. Under the color of law and authority, the police have power of force and arrest. It is imperative upon them to use it wisely and within limits based on the situation at hand. From reading what happened with this guy, unless I missed the part where he attacked officer with this really big knife or machete at officers in close quarters, then it is on them to have used less than lethal means to subdue this guy. Instead they went right for the most disproportionate option for the situation at hand.
Frankly, any suicide or mental health call should be accompanied by a cop and a mental health professional ride-along.
Well, if the police want it to be "shoot first and talk later", we can do that too.
Just saying.
And to the best of my knowledge I'm not a robot.
A friend's wife called EMS because the friend was having a seizure. Two cops show up before the ambulance, start giving a guy seizing orders to stop, lie down, etc, then taze him for being noncooperative. I'm sure his wife is happy they didn't give him 9mm first aid before the ambulance arrived.
But electrical shock like tazing can be fatal to someone seizing. Later, the DA told my friend that no charges would be filed against him.
Methadrus ... you point is well taken. My problem with the case as described is somehow there seems to be a lot of information missing. It's a big step from a call to an admin number and swat team. What's not being said?
Some Seppo said...
A friend's wife called EMS because the friend was having a seizure. Two cops show up before the ambulance, start giving a guy seizing orders to stop, lie down, etc, then taze him for being noncooperative. I'm sure his wife is happy they didn't give him 9mm first aid before the ambulance arrived.
But electrical shock like tazing can be fatal to someone seizing. Later, the DA told my friend that no charges would be filed against him.
How long did it take you to make up this bullshit?
Aridog said...
Methadrus ... you point is well taken. My problem with the case as described is somehow there seems to be a lot of information missing. It's a big step from a call to an admin number and swat team. What's not being said?
You are right, there is tons of information missing. Clearly from the time the police engaged until the time the shooting occurred. All of that detail and information is gone for now.
https://www.google.com/search?q=man+tased+by+police+during+seizure+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Go fuck yourself some more, Methedras.
Dude, it looked like a bullshit story. I suppose I couldn't fathom that cops would do that, but since the the epileptic guys account and the police account appear to differ greatly. I get that aggression can happen after a seizure, but I really doubt that cops would know that in general unless they have training or know someone who is. Either way, accept my apologies on me thinking this story was bullshit. At first blush, it just seemed something out of the Onion.
By the way, I fuck myself all the time, just don't let Titus find out. Know what I mean?
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