"Down Syndrome is where the rubber hits the road for opponents of abortion. Approximately 90% of Down Syndrome pregnancies are terminated with an abortion. This behavior is entirely rational, given the enormous difficulties of caring for a Down Syndrome individual from adulthood into old age. These numbers are, however, strikingly discordant with polls showing that a majority of people oppose abortion. While the numbers for Down Syndrome abortions remain so high, abortion poll numbers represent the meaningless expressions of personal preferences for an ideal world rather than core beliefs that survive the reality of an imperfect biological world."
A Reasonable Blog
21 comments:
"These numbers are, however, strikingly discordant with polls showing that a majority of people oppose abortion."
I have to disagree with "strikingly discordant."
I checked two recent polls and find that only 20% oppose abortion in "all" circumstances versus larger percentages who generally oppose abortion but would support it in "some" circumstances.
In addition, the 90% number you cite is dated and questionable and other citations show that number to be closer to 80%.
To go further with an analysis we would need a reliable poll which asked specifically about abortion and Downs and detailed responses by women of child-bearing age.
No doubt you (ARM) could find a number of pro-life absolutist women who aborted their Downs child when the rubber hit the road and demonize them for your personal satisfaction, but you need better data to back up your generalization.
These numbers are, however, strikingly discordant with polls showing that a majority of people oppose abortion.
I agree with rabel's take and think ARM was being disingenuous by applying a generic poll to specific circumstances (see rabel's comment above). Furthermore, a more specific abortion poll of the sort "Do you approve of abortion for convenience under any circumstances?" would probably poll badly for the abortionists.
Agreeing with Rabel and Chick. There is nothing strikingly discordant here.
If you HAD asked people who were stated as being 100% against abortion under any circumstances and then went and analyized how many of them who were subsequently pregnant with a Downs child and then actually had an abortion, you might have a meaningful statistic.
The opposition to abortion falls into a wide range of oppositions. 100% against = no abortion ever. Against abortion as a general rule, but Ok with aborting severely deformed or ill babies who have no chance in life. Ok with abortion up until a certain time frame. Ok with abortion under all circumstances for any reason at all.......and a whole range of other choices in between.
This is exactly the reason why ARM and Loafing Oaf and Randy Andy Glute milking Sullivan hated Sarah Palin with the heat of a thousand suns.
She was true to her beliefs in that she did not abort her Downs syndrome son. This drove them crazy and is a principle reason why they hate her so.
Oh man, I dreamt about a Down Syndrome girl right before waking up this morning. Wanna hear about it? Okay, goes like this:
Reconstruction on Denver downtown area revealed a long hidden treasure, a Greek restaurant on 15th st. that I decided to revisit and check out their forced adjustment to the construction outside. They responded splendidly. But the renovations meant everything changed and now the entrance is in the back through their residential portion. The family lived where they worked and incorporated their home into the new restaurant. Very homey. Very personal place.
Brightly lit, tables sparsely occupied with hipsters in the know. I passed by the tables of people having lunch to get at the front. I am in vocal contact with the owner directing my movements, when suddenly a Down Syndrome near-adult playfully scooted in front of me blocking my way, childishly on her back on the floor looking upward thinking she blocked me, I spread my legs and carefully stepped over her taking extra steps going, "beep beep beep beep beep" like a construction truck going backwards, she giggled while looking up at my crotch, (red pants) and the lunching customers laughed and clapped briefly, and without acknowledging any disruption at all I continued forward with the owner and then got to the front. The owner woman loved me immediately for playing.
Upon awakening I grasped the meaning immediately, it's all about wanting some gyros.
But as to abortion, someone on twitter linked this article "Look her in the eye," a townhall piece, wherein a doctor of some sort gives a speech and is approached by a young man with a question about abortion for rape victims.
The author answers the question and turns the young mans inquiry into a self-analysis based on his experience.
He asks if the young man sleeping (sexing it up) with his girlfriend. He refuses to answer, and so the author takes that for "yes" and proceeds.
Most young men irresponsible in sex look to the rape exclusion as their moral way out of their own dilemma.
The states flatly that counterintuitively most rape victims do not abort. I am not doing the article justice, it is getting a lot of circulation, but the author's point is a bit surprising. Rape victims are innocent victims of violence and having experienced that violence firsthand they find it impossible to visit that violence on an innocent person, part of themselves.
According to the author the numbers bear out this conclusion.
I was dissatisfied with this piece because the dialogue is a bit on the nose. It all goes boink boink boink to the point and just didn't seem 100% real.Without rejecting it entirely I must admit it gives room for thought. (I had no problem finding the piece again, [look into eyes abortion]
Makes me kind of glad it's been a while since I used "retard" as an insult.
I had a dream this morning that I was back in college, and I had this ex-girlfriend, and we both wanted to get back together but we were both afraid of getting our feelings hurt.
She was doing her homework at a desk and I asked her to get into bed with me.
She said, "Should I bring my calculator?"
I said, "Yes, we want to get this right."
Then I woke up pretty sure I'd never made a joke in my sleep, before.
Rabel said...
No doubt you (ARM) could find a number of pro-life absolutist women who aborted their Downs child when the rubber hit the road and demonize them for your personal satisfaction, but you need better data to back up your generalization.
Not interested in demonizing anyone. I get tired of debates on abortion degenerating into the moral preening of people who have no skin in the game. People who do have skin in the game generally have more nuanced views.
Rabel said...
I have to disagree with "strikingly discordant."
The point is that abortion restrictionists have made much of polling data showing increased support for restrictions on abortion in recent years. But, the views expressed in a poll are meaningless if they don't reflect behavior. So, the polls measure something that is essentially meaningless.
"But, the views expressed in a poll are meaningless if they don't reflect behavior."
I wouldn't say meaningless, but I get your point. My point was that your post didn't back up the hyperbole in the particular phrase you chose to use.
Is Downs still associated with older women having babies? If so, it might actually make a difference if there is a correlation between the ideology of the majority of women who have children later in life and both the testing and abortion of babies with Downs.
Visit a few Mormon or Evangelical congregations. You will see that there is very real physical representation (ie kids with Downs) who prove that their parents put their money where their mouths are.
Birches said...
Visit a few Mormon or Evangelical congregations. You will see that there is very real physical representation (ie kids with Downs) who prove that their parents put their money where their mouths are.
When it comes to investment of parental resources a majority of parents tend to be very conservative in the sense that they want the best possible return on their investment. This is why genetic engineering of human embryos, when it becomes available, will inevitably be broadly adopted. There is an arms race between parents to advance their family/genetic lineage through their children and they will pay whatever it takes, whether it is driving the child to get the grades to get into an Ivy college or coughing up the money for their little darlings nose job and orthodontics.
There is an arms race between parents to advance their family/genetic lineage through their children...
This logic rationalizes why such parents would be disappointed if their offspring were gay.
I'm glad it's not as simple as ARM projects.
I think Birches was saying that Mormons and Evangelics appreciate a broader spectrum of humanity.
Good point, Synova.
I'm not saying it's so, you understand. I'm saying that it ought to be controlled for if one is comparing numbers as it *might* be enough to skew results a great deal.
chickenlittle said...
This logic rationalizes why such parents would be disappointed if their offspring were gay.
Before in vitro fertilization and surrogates this was true. Maybe the current greater acceptance of gays is related in part to the spread of these new reproductive technologies.
"Upon awakening I grasped the meaning immediately, it's all about wanting some gyros."
How did you pronounce 'gyros'?
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