Belmar said the shooter was "embedded" among the demonstrators standing across from the officers.
"I don't know who did the shooting to be honest with you right now, but somehow they were embedded in that group of folks," he said.
Protesters at the scene however said on social media that the shots did not come from where they were standing.
"The shooter was not with the protesters. The shooter was atop the hill," activist DeRay McKesson said on Twitter.
"I was here. I saw the officer fall. The shot came from at least 500 feet away from the officers," he added.
43 comments:
Two shots fired at the same time, from a distance perhaps greater than a football field. One was a head shot, the other was a chest shot. Just two shots, not a volley of fire from thugs waving around handguns.
The shooters were trained, and they had accurate rifles. They weren't amateurs, they weren't guys who had cheap handguns. They were people who have skill, who had a plan, and who had an escape route.
They were there to kill police, and to incite rioting and anarchy. This is all so the federal government can take over the Ferguson police department.
The shooters were pros.
Holder and Obama have aided and abetted this ongoing assault on a Midwestern town.
After they admitted that the officer had committed no actionable crime(s), they should have left it at that. Instead, they felt compelled to to twist a knife for the sake of the sick protestors.
Now live with your legacy, Eric Holder.
Attempted murder incited by the President, Attorney General and The New York Times.
How did we get to this point?
Holder and Obama have blood on their hands. They rushed in to defend a criminal who robbed a convenience store, they lied about "hands up don't shoot", they treated the officer involved as if he were guilty, and they incited this violence from the beginning to now.
Michael Brown rushed the officer and attempted to take the officers gun. but the media spun that into a lie with the "hands up don't shoot" bull.
Our pathetic unprofessional hack press all have blood on their hands.
MSNBC, the joke network, is a major culprit. Make no mistake, MSNBC aids and abets criminal behavior all the time. The Hillary supporting on-air talent at MSNBC.
MSNBC interviewed Brown's accomplice (who is a liar) numerous times and pushed the "hands up don't shoot" lie more than any other fake news / fake-narrative TV network.
(after that moron Rachel Maddow caught her breath from bridge-gate)
Whatever it is, it's ugly.
I state the obvious but the obvious needs stating:
Race relations have deteriorated under Obama.
...and for no reason than politics and power.
I hope you don't mind, Michael Haz, that I re-post this: I think it is important because it reveals the hypocrisy of our leaders and our media:
Black Lives Matter
Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in America. 78% of their clinics are in minority communities. Blacks make up 12% of the population, but 35% of the abortions in America.
So no, those black lives don't matter. And remember, Planned Parenthood is an organization favored by white liberals, who make up the bulk of their financial donors.
Earlier this week, Fulton County, Georgia police officer Terence Green, a black man, was ambushed, shot in the head and killed by Amanuel Menghesha, a black man.
There were no protests, no threats of civil violence if there is no peace. Terence Green's life must not matter.
Also this week in Philadelphia, police officer Robert Wilson, a black man, was shot to death by two other black men, identified as Ramone Williams, 24, and Carlton Hipps, 29. Both had prior arrests, and police said Hipps had gotten out of prison in 2009. Officer Wilson had stopped at a video store to buy a gift for his 9 year old son, and was shot and killed during an attempted robbery.
There were no chants of "no justice, no peace" following Officer Wilson's murder. Apparently, his black life doesn't matter.
Just watch. Al Sharpton will show up in Madison. And he won't make any effort to show up in Philadelphia or Atlanta for the funerals of the dead officers.
Because the true chant is "Selected Black Lives Matter, Others Don't".
--Michael Haz -- March 7, 2015 at 3:40 PM
Careful, April. You might incite Ritmo to fly over and say something clever about black mens' semen again.
You might incite Ritmo to fly over and say something clever about black mens' semen again.
He just might be an expert on that topic.
Just sayin'
This is how it starts. The fire was lit, this fanned the flames.
"The protests must continue."
That was Holder's statement in response to the shootings. I kid you not.
Haz said...
This is all so the federal government can take over the Ferguson police department.
Contrary to what the idiot AG Holder said, his DOJ has NO authority to take over or "dismantle" a local municipal police department, a Sheriff's department, nor the State Police. He's barely less a race baiter than Al Sharpton.
All he can do is go to court, as an ordinary plaintiff, and request Court oversight, by a court appointed 3rd party, who reports to the Court, not to DOJ or any AG. That is if he wins his plaintiff's case per se. If he gets the court order, all he and his agency can do is "observe", they can direct NOTHING, just yap like the ankle biters they are these days.
I am so glad the idiot Holder finally got around to saying the the shooting of the two Ferguson Police Officers was a bad thing...about two hours ago. What a piece of work. He just noticed, eh?
For examples or court supervision (not DOJ anything) see Newark NJ, and Detroit MI (police departments under court supervision)...& Detroit was just released from years Federal Court Oversight last August 2014.
Haz...of course my prior remark is based upon Holder following the settled law. Lately, in federal circles, that seems like an iffy proposition. All we might do is hope.
Years ago, starting with the dismissal of the Philadelphia/Black Panthers polling place case, the DOJ became the DOR...Department of Revenge.
Racism demagoguery has become a dire threat to our democracy.
It's interesting that Althouse sees herself as rational and above the fray here. Her husband is one of the most vile, vicious race hucksters around.
How much suffering and even deaths have been caused by this media fueled, manufactured crisis?
And there's the AG and POTUS flaming the flames instead of doing their duty.
Shameful.
You would think this wouldn't help Hilary. But maybe they figure it does somehow.
I don't know anymore.
I just loved the MSM on-the-scene reporters all saying they had been shot by handguns from a hill a football field away. Hell, most people can't hit a standing tgt only 30' away with a handgun unless it's with a full clip from an automatic scoring maybe two hits.. Only TWO shots and TWO hits!!?? Riiiiiight.. Hazman is dead on..
Who knows what happened? They are all a bunch of lying liars "protesting."
Protesting what? They got what they wanted.
As far as the "500 feet" ...
I understand what Haz is saying re the shots, but who is this guy -- protester DeRay McKesson -- who can say how far away the shots were taken from? Veteran special ops?
I am thinking this is a partnership with ISIS in American and Blacky in America.
And Obama and Holder have blood on their hands-any every other democrat in the world.
poppa india said...
Years ago, starting with the dismissal of the Philadelphia/Black Panthers polling place case, the DOJ became the DOR...Department of Revenge.
That's pretty much how I see it, too.
virgil xenophon said...
I just loved the MSM on-the-scene reporters all saying they had been shot by handguns from a hill a football field away. Hell, most people can't hit a standing tgt only 30' away with a handgun unless it's with a full clip from an automatic scoring maybe two hits.. Only TWO shots and TWO hits!!?? Riiiiiight.. Hazman is dead on...
Yep, Haz has a disturbing way of winning threads on the first comment :-)
As a regular .45 ACP target pistol shooter (weekly usually) I cannot hit with such accuracy from the registered distance of 25 yards, let alone 300 yards. And I've only been at it for 50 odd years.
And, yep, as I age, my Tueller Drill distance has expanded from 21 feet (the average) to some 30 feet now (growing old sucks)....albeit I can place all shots inside the 7 ring on the standard NRA target at that distance.
Do any **reliable** witnesses to where the shots came from?
Given their track record, I wouldn't believe anyone in Ferguson without a Youtube video.
So 500 feet? Yeah, maybe.
I don't know what Haz means by "Pros". Was the DC Sniper a "pro"?
Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't most good shots hit someone at 500 ft with Rifle and a scope?
rcocean .... I think the shots came from the grassy knoll.
rcocean...most "good shots" with a rifle could hit accurately from 500 feet (166 yards) over iron sights. However I heard and read where some **witness** said it was a pistol.
The standard qualification range for both 5.56 NATO (M16 & M4) and 7.62 NATO (M14, FLN, etc.) rounds is from 25 yards out to 350 yards...over iron sights. The 7.62 NATO can be pushed out to 500 yards over iron sights by a decent shot.
If the shooter used a rifle the shots are not all that remarkable if at 500 feet.
Has anyone heard what caliber rounds were discovered? That might separate the pistol from rifle kerfuffle?
The 500 feet estimate came from a Ferguson PD official. It is the distance from where the police were standing to a point uphill on the street where the shots came from. The shooters had to be high enough to shoot over the protesters and hit the cops.
By "pros" I meant shooters who had been trained, most likely while in the military, and not run-of-the-mill street guys holding their pistols sideways and shooting.
We'll see who it turns out to be. But it sounds like provocateurs, local or from elsewhere, to me.
Haz....I'm going to stick with the rifle idea of yours unless proven otherwise...e.g., by caliber and actual range distance. From 75 or less feet, yes, I can do it easily...even more so at 30 feet...but 500 feet with a pistol. Nope. Would be sheer luck if I managed it...and unrepeatable.
I am a v-e-r-y well trained pistol shot (started in 1964) and rifle shot (started in 1949) and I cannot fashion making two or three pistol shots directly on target (inside the 7 rings or higher...e.g., head size) off hand or in a two handed grip, Isosceles or Weaver stance, from 500 feet...e.g., 166 yards with a pistol, even a finely tuned K-38 S&W revolver. I can shoot nice patterns with a .45 ACP off of a bench/machine rest at 100 yards (like done in all those gun reviews folks read), but off hand or Isosceles or Weaver.... nah. With luck maybe a few hits inside the 7 ring...very dicey at best. I'd not bet 10 cents on it.
rcocean said...
How much suffering and even deaths have been caused by this media fueled, manufactured crisis?
And there's the AG and POTUS flaming the flames instead of doing their duty.
Shameful.
They don't care. If it bleeds it leads. Literally.
This isn't against anything Haz has said, but as a shooter of both .223/5.56 and .308/7.62 with my own two-hands custom built AR style platforms for both calibers, and without knowing what the caliber of the rounds were, I think I can say with a relative safety that they were neither because those rounds would have done significant damage even if grazed.
"The officer -- a 32-year-old with seven years' experience -- was shot at the high point of his cheek, just under his right eye, Belmar said.
The other wounded officer was hit in the shoulder and the bullet came out the middle of his back, Belmar said. He is a 41-year-old from St. Louis County Police who has been in law enforcement for the past 14 years.
Both men were treated and released from St. Louis' Barnes Jewish Hospital." - Quote from CNN
Since one of the officer was shot in the face just below his right eye with one of the rounds lodging itself just behind his ear, while the other officer was hit in the shoulder and the exit wound was in the middle of his back. It tells me that this was a smaller caliber round. Possibly a .22LR and those can travel 125 yards, but that's one hell of a shot with that small round. Because if it was a larger round like a .223 or a .308 they most likely would be dead or seriously wounded. These guys were treated and left the hospital the next morning.
Possibly a .22LR and those can travel 125 yards, but that's one hell of a shot with that small round.
So, the fallout will be to round-up those rounds too.
FNC played a video of the protest at the time of the shooting on Megyn Kelly's show tonight. Four shots were hears in rapid succession, probably less than four seconds total.
A police official confirmed that both officers were released from the hospital, and also said that both suffered injuries that would keep them out of law enforcement hereafter. The officer shot in the face was shot below the eye; the bullet remains lodged between brain and ear in an area where it cannot be surgically removed.
They may be at home, but they are likely under medical supervision.
Methadras - you built an AR-15? Awesome.
Michael Haz said...
FNC played a video of the protest at the time of the shooting on Megyn Kelly's show tonight. Four shots were hears in rapid succession, probably less than four seconds total.
A police official confirmed that both officers were released from the hospital, and also said that both suffered injuries that would keep them out of law enforcement hereafter. The officer shot in the face was shot below the eye; the bullet remains lodged between brain and ear in an area where it cannot be surgically removed.
They may be at home, but they are likely under medical supervision.
Shots were heard? Hmmm, maybe not .22LR then. Those rounds are pretty quiet generally and they are small. I don't know then.
Michael Haz said...
Methadras - you built an AR-15? Awesome.
Yup, I built one AR-15 from bought parts that I sourced and put together. The other AR-15 I have I designed and built the upper and lower myself from straight billet to my own specs and my own modifications. It took a long time to machine, but it turned out awesome. The DPMS pattern .308/7.62 x 51 I just sourced the parts for and put together. No big deal on that one. I'll take pictures and post when I get a chance. That gun I call Tinkerbell, she'll just fly out and touch you if she could with her fairy death dust. She's good to over 1000+ yards, but I've never shot her that far though. That is a different setup that i more expensive. Mainly the optics.
Methadras .... you raise good points and ones that add to the conundrum of who shot from where. As for a pistol round, from .22 caliber to .45 ACP, I doubt the concept of 500 feet (plus) for the shooter...so a rifle would be potentially the weapon if the 500 feet is accurate. I also agree with your ideas about the impact effects of the various rifle rounds...seems to rebut the rifle idea if bigger than .22 Long Rifle....just as the distance of 500 or so feet does the pistol idea.
If a .22 caliber long rifle, like my old (very sorry I sold it) Model 52 Winchester that I began with in 1949, it would fit your scenario...even over iron sights it was a tack driver. 500 feet over even iron sights is not remarkable for a rifle, but nearly absurd for a pistol....even with 4 shots fired. As I said, I need a machine/bench rest to shoot decent pistol groups at 100 yards...just like all the gun reviewers use out there who get nice tight pistol groups at 100 yards (300 feet).
As for your self built AR type rifles, awesome. The only old timey military style rifle I've been curious about is the long wooden stocked M14 type, e.,g., an M1A from Springfield Arsenal...but the price is daunting for a boy-toy (e.g., a target rifle)...over $2900. The "long stock" means I wouldn't need to use the military sight picture of thumb knuckle against my cheek bone (aka the "spot weld") due to the short stock designed for use with heavy outer clothing, such as in winter.
To build a personal version would be even more, just the barrel bedding alone is tedious....and you cannot remove the stock from the barrel & action without messing it up. Your idea of an AR stoner type is a much better idea...and I might try it for a 7.62 NATO gun...a friend of mine has built a nice AR rifle and insists I do so so we can shoot together on the rifle side of the indoor range we both shoot at....as well as at the longer range outdoor ranges.
Question: how did you handle the barrel stabilization using the AR/DPMS design? I am always ready to learn something, so tell me, if you will, how you did it to get a good 1000 yard rifle in 7.62 NATO? I know it can be done...just don't know the specs of how to do it.
Race relations are so twisted (thanks Eric Holder - you racist a-hole) that there are actually people in Ferguson saying the police faked their own shooting.
wow. just wow. ( see drudge)
Aridog, can you clarify what you mean by barrel stabilization? I think I can take a guess by what you mean by it, so let me take a crack at it. And if you already know this, I apologize for being captain obvious. :D
The first thing I think that is important is barrel contour and barrel length in the .308/7.62 configuration. You have several to choose from and you can go custom. The only custom barrel maker I know of at the moment is Krieger barrels, but I also think they are the best barrel maker on the planet and you can spec out a barrel to your own specs. They are expensive too. So, you can choose a medium contour barrel, a Heavy Barrel, or a Bull Barrel. Now, the other factor is the load-out because there are several grains within the .308/7.62 category that a lot of people miss out on. You can get a match grain to match barrel setup, but you need to know how the harmonic/resonance characteristics of that barrel are going to react to that particular round. Once you have the timed in, then that’s all you would shoot. Or conversely, you can load your own and match your own loads to that barrel.
I use an H-Bar (heavy Barrel) configuration with a muzzle brake. A bull barrel is just a thicker version of the H-Bar without an end barrel thread for a muzzle device. It would be the most stabilized of all the barrel configs, but you need to know what the resonance frequency/harmonics of that barrel is as well. People don’t realize this, but when you pull that trigger and the firing pin hits that primer, there is a resonance wave that goes right through the lower and upper of that weapon and travels right down to the barrel. That barrel is now micro-oscillating even before the bullet travels down that barrel. Then the gasses will travel down the length of the inside of the barrel and they will now add their frequency wave to the mix. In fact, the gasses are traveling at over 3 -5 times supersonic speeds and they will exit the barrel long before the bullet even starts its line of travel. Then after that, the bullet starts it’s travel and introduces yet another frequency wave to travel down the cross sections of the entire barrel, so at this stage the barrel is oscillating in kind of a sideways figure 8 pattern and mathematically at a specific distance, a specific load out, at a specific grain weight, you will know where that barrel is in its micro-oscillations at the time it exits the barrel where that bullet will end up.
I know a guy at the range I go to who has this down to an absolute science and I’ve seen his results and it’s like magic to watch. He knows his load-outs and where that barrel will be in its oscillation as the bullet leaves where that bullet will go and I’ve seen him put them hole, in hole, in hole or so damned close you wouldn’t believe it if you saw it. Now, I don’t take it to that level, but at 100 yards, I know with the loads I use in that gun with that barrel where those bullets will go with relative accuracy. Then I just calculate other stuff in my head for distance further than that.
I’ve never shot this gun at a 1000 yards because A) there aren’t any 1000 yard ranges where I live in San Diego and B) it’s a more expensive load-out to do.
Also, you can build an ar-10/dpms/sr25 setup like you would an AR-15. Upper/lower, lower parts kit, bolt carrier group, a buffer, a buffer recoil spring, buffer tube and stock. Everything else is optional like optics, mounts, sights, furniture, etc.
The only thing I’d say you might need a gunsmith for is the head spacing for the barrel to the BCG (Bolt Carrier Group). If you know what you are doing, no problem and it isn’t that hard. You can buy head spacing blanks yourself and do the work, but for a few sheckles you can get it gunsmithed proper. Anyway, sorry if I was way off base based on your question. I hope this helps.
Methadras.... you are not way off base, actually right on the money. Your description os perfect and you addition of the loads and bullet characteristics is part of the equation(s) depending on the rifle...especially the "accurized" bedded barrel M14 which responds well to only high precision military rounds of a spec fitted to your target objectives.
Problem with the M14 variety is the gas cylinder and piston device on the barrel which makes the "bedding" necessary versus a free floating barrel designed with resonance considerations. My familiarity with the M14/M21 versions is based upon the training circular DA TC 23-14 of 1969, and subsequent experience, and my copy of which I still have in my weird library. Mostly I know that the more or less static bedding of the M14 version is not tolerant of many rounds...which makes that $2900 price tag daunting because I'd not know what was designed for in the first place....let alone I already know it is a pain to maintain.
Your design if I read it right is for a free floating barrel, un-like the M14, and one picked for its resonance characteristics....which I suspect tolerate a wider range of cartridges. I have no doubt your 7.62 NATO will group well at 1000 yards with the right loads...I've done it with the M14/M21 variety....even 500 yards over iron sights as well. You hit all the right notes. Anyone reading this should take your advice. Thanks.
Thanks for the great response, but now I shall curse you because you've peaked my curiosity and likely encourage me to spend more money. Drat that Methadrus! :-))
BTW...another of my "worst mistakes," beyond selling that old Model 52 Winchester, was declining to purchase a US Army modified and accurized National Match M14 built by TRW .... I can be a dumb ass now and then....it was only $1400 asking and well over half the work was already done. I figured getting the right ammunition would be too hard...not thinking that I could load my own to spec. Duh. :-(
Another thing, Methadrus....I could build my own custom Model 1911, and have done several in years past, plus parts are available everywhere, but why bother...my Custom Shop Kimber all steel hard ball gun is perfect. Those I shoot with who've shot it claim it "shoots itself" (and is so well ramped & fitted it swallows nearly any .45 ACP ammunition...but I stick to target hard ball or Corbon JHP's....similar velocities and weights ) ... so, thanks to you, it looks like I need a new project.
Ari, I apologize for peaking your curiosity and making you spend more money. I am a sucker for guns and anything gun related so I have to watch myself as well. :D Good luck, good shooting.
Methadras...you be forgiven :-)
These days I try to restrain myself to guns I will actually use a lot...and right now that's the Kimber Custom Shop .45 ACP and an FNH FNX-45 .45 ACP. The latter pistol has a very good trigger break once you get used to it...about 6 lbs & crisp.
If I build a 7.62 NATO rifle I will have more questions on how to match barrel shapes with specific cartridge loads.
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