“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.The call is going out for conservatives to distance themselves from Bundy. I find it interesting that after President Obama has repeatedly called for a national conversation or race, as soon as a citizen is engaged in the race conversation, the conversation is used against him.
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.” (read more)
I'm not going to defend Bundy, but, (I guess I 'am) we all have been asked to talk about race. And unless there is a school we have to go to learn how to talk about it. I'm not going to condemn a man for being in-artfull, un-nuanced as to the euphemism riddled, ever evolving language of race. Bundy spoke his mind the best he could, which is saying a lot, in the day when exercising free speech by making a donation to the unapproved cause can get you virtually tarred and feather not to mention fired.
152 comments:
I seem to recall hearing or reading some black radicals saying that blacks were better off during slavery, as a way of pointing out how bad they believe things are today.
Some days is hard to tell if Crack wishes for any 'other days' other than the 'racist days of today.'
I'm calling it like I see it.
You don't rally think liberals want an honest discussion on race, do you? But, this guy is a buffoon.
Oops for you guys who have sidled up to Cliven Bundy over recent days. It looks like Harry Reid might've indeed been correct when he called Bundy supporters "domestic terrorists". After all, what was the American institution of slavery, with its cotton plantation government-sanctioned forced labor roots, if not domestic terror. Bundy obviously wants to go back to those good old day.
I wonder - will Bundy supporters here at Lem's begin now to get some distance from the blatant racist, Cliven Bundy?
We respect him just as much as we respect you, Mr. Althouse.
Well Cliven Bundy sounds racist, but there is no proof of him screwing young boys or dogs. So he has that going for him.
He is not a KKK racist.
And you know this how, Lem?
As Ed Morissey said of Bundy's words in the linked Hot Air piece: "Yeesh. That’s about as ugly as it gets".
Harry Reid must be doing a chortle dance.
Lem said...
"He is not a KKK racist."
Nevada has a chapter of the KKK - the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Evi L. Bloggerlady said...
"Well Cliven Bundy sounds racist"
You're calling him a racist? Or just racist-ish?
And you know this how, Lem?
If he was it would have come out before.
I don't believe Bundy wants black to go back to the plantation.
The problem with Bundy is that he doesn't breath and sleeps race... so to hear him talk about it is to hear racism.
Because in order to understand "racism" these days, you have to talk it breath it and sleep it every day. See Crack's blog and see if I'm making sense.
Common sense.
We are good at what we do after we do it for awhile.
You talk enough race and race will be elevated to an artform.
This is what's wrong with talking about race. Everyone says we need to have a conversation about it, but as soon as you start talking anywhere near the truth, everyone says "shut up, you racist".
The fortunes of Blacks will not be improved, but rather continue to swap one problem for another until we start talking about it honestly. I'm not scared of talking about this, becuase I really want the fate of Blacks improved. If you are one of the ones saying "shut up", then you must have a different agenda which you think is more valuable. That might be racist.
the talk of race, elevated to artform.
If Bundy were to say Rolling Stones Mick Jagger has a ghetto pass because of the size of his lips... I wouldn't know what to make of it.
But, is ok for Crack to say something like that because race is not for the understudied... or something.
link update 3
Well, that sure was expressed in an inartful way, to say the least. His main point, however, is that government programs meant to help the black community have instead wrought major damage upon it is not an uncommon school of thought.
Is Bundy a particularly sympathetic character? No, but that isn't the issue. The issue is whether police forces of various kinds get to go all Rambo-ey on American citizens because they own the equipment & want to try it it out.
MOVE in Philadelphia in 1978, Ruby Ridge, or the Branch Davidians in Waco. None of those folks were particularly sympathetic. That doesn't mean the government had the right to go all ballistic on them. Government overreach is the issue here, not whether Cliven Bundy is an asshole.
There are aspects of Black life that have deteriorated since the civil rights era, and much of that is a result of leftist policy aimed at equality, but instead finding dependency, and infantilization. There was a time when Blacks and other races shared pretty similar strong family structures and values. That has changed, and it's the root of much of what Bundy was refering to. Calling him a racist for pointing it out is cowardly.
What bundy said is less racist than what comes out of Al Sharpton or Chris Mathews on a weekly basis, and they have national television jobs in communications. Bundy is cattle rancher in the desert.
Meade wrote: I wonder - will Bundy supporters here at Lem's begin now to get some distance from the blatant racist, Cliven Bundy?
Odd how Meade chides Lem's readers to distance themselves from Cliven Bundy while he cleaves closer to Crack's brand of racism.
Could we have some introspection please?
We have a double standard when it comes to discussing race.
As long as that double standard exist the discussion is not going to go anywhere.
The discussion if fixed against one side.
Note how things are being framed. You are not allowed to support someone on a particular issue UNLESS you support them on every issue.
As I've said elsewhere, I don't know the particulars of the Bundy case, and I don't care. But don't let others frame the issue as support for Bundy in all things as opposed to supporting him in this one thing. That's just a method of dishonestly changing the nature of the debate.
LSL's shanty Irish clan elected a KKK governor in Indiana back in the 20's. KKK was very strong in the knuckle draggin' Hoosier State. I'm sure there's a lotta hoods in the LSL's shallow gene pool. No triple digit threads @ TOP for a long time, last time I checked. That's why the bug is here. I never can determine if it's more aggravating or pitiful.
Also note that Meade is making the point that opposition to Harry Reid is the same as blowing up children. Just another dishonest bit from another leftist radical shithead.
http://theothermccain.com/2014/04/24/lets-condemn-all-the-sexist-racist-homophobic-heroes-of-american-history/
Lem, any of us who thought Harry Reid and his former staffer now head of BLM thug were thuggish are not chagrined because old man Bundy said something about "Negros." Could it be that being right about federal overreach is right regardless if the target is an old man making comments that many of us disagree with? I did not realize that Federal power is dependent on how PC your views are.
Link
I don't think Bundy is a racist. He isn't very elegant in his speaking, but he is basically saying something that many people have pointed out.
The Government social/welfare system has destroyed the black family culture and structure. This
NO one thinks that people are better off as slaves: owned by others and forced to work for the benefit of others. But many people believe that people are better off when they are not reliant on government support. To be so dependent that you no longer have the incentive or desire to work, that your family is fragmented because you don't need a father and mother when the government subsidizes single parenthood....to remain uneducated because you don't need to know much when you have other people's money to rely on.....do these things make you free?....or do they make you a dependent in perpetuity to someone else? Are they free or are they defacto subjects or slaves to the system?
As to supporting Bundy. Anyone against BLM I support. BLM is deliberately forcing people off of the land that they have used, that they have historical rights to use and purposely destroying their businesses, just so that they can make someone else (Reid's family for one)rich and move some tortoises to Bundy's land in order to build a boondoggle solar field. BLM wants to do the same to folks on the Oklahoma Texas border.
The government is out of control and in the case of welfare destroying the fabric of society.
Right @ EBL.
I'm pissed though at how quickly some in our side run for the tall grass at the first mention of the subject of race.
If anybody bothers to watch the video, you'll see that he posed a rhetorical question using the 1960's terminology that he grew up with.
That question, better said, is "Were African Americans better off as slaves or as wards of the government living in crime infested government housing with broken families and a culture of dependency?"
The point of that question was - what is better for African Americans - a return to the bad old days or dependency and its price.
Of course the answer is option two, but that is because he posed his question in a very Obama-like manner as he offered only two alternatives - the current situation versus a straw man option which no one, including Bundy, actually advocates.
Nevertheless, his question offers a starting point for our national conversation on race which should lead honest listeners to a third and better option - break the cycle of dependency and build a culture in Black America based on family and work centered, self-supporting behaviors free from the chains of the slave owner and the government
That doesn't sound blatantly racist to me unless you can't get past the non-PC terminology which he shares with Senator Reid and many others in his age group or you're simply not an honest listener.
I think it's pretty obvious that Bundy prefers Blacks be subjesct neither form of slaver - the old style or the new one, and he made that point clear enough if you are open to listening, and not just waiting to jump on your well-trained mule that always takes you home.
I did not realize that Federal power is dependent on how PC your views are.
Welcome to America, land of the peeved.
Does Cliven Bundy's personal views on race make Harry Reid right about supporting pederasty?
Thanks for that link EBL. had not read that reaction to this Bundy pimple until now.
I agree with it. the other McCain.
National Review correspondent Kevin Williamson, who recently compared Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy to Mahatma Gandhi, told TPM in an email on Thursday that he thought Bundy’s racially charged comments were “lamentable” but they were “separate” from Bundy’s standoff with the Bureau of Land Management. “Mr. Bundy’s racial rhetoric is lamentable and backward,” Williamson said in an email. “It is also separate from the fundamental question here, which is the federal government’s acting as an absentee landlord for nine-tenths of the state of Nevada.” “I very strongly suspect that most of the men who died at the Alamo held a great many views that I would find repugnant; we remember them for other reasons.”
What Rabel said.
Who is calling for conservatives to "distance themselves" from Cliven Bundy?
a) People who want to distract attention from yet another example of failed government overreach and would prefer that you not think too deeply about government oppression of individuals and their rights;
b) Friends of Harry Reid;
c) Scolds with time on their hands and incredibly tedious personal grudges;
d) All of the above.
He's talking about what the government plantation does to people.
It does it to whites as well and, although many whites were held in bonded indenture - sometimes for generations, only blacks were held in slavery.
Meade said...
It looks like Harry Reid might've indeed been correct when he called Bundy supporters "domestic terrorists"
Making a point about the deleterious effects of the welfare state vis a vis slavery makes one a terrorist?
Someone's channeling Ritmo and The Unreasonable Troll.
He is not a KKK racist.
Nevada has a chapter of the KKK
So does OH.
ndspinelli said...
LSL's shanty Irish clan elected a KKK governor in Indiana back in the 20's. KKK was very strong in the knuckle draggin' Hoosier State
It practically ran that state and many others in the Midwest and along the East Coast.
PS No shanty Irish, nd. Good ol' WASPs, ever' one of 'em.
PPS Rabel's point is well-taken. Lefties use this device, usually with considerable historical inaccuracy.
Bundy, at least, has done his homework.
Meade said...
Nevada has a chapter of the KKK - the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I Googled "Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan", and couldn't find any chapter in Nevada.
Even if he'd managed to be articulate on the subject of government overreach, Bundy didn't need to single out blacks as being caught up in the culture of welfare. Plenty of people of other races are there as well. That would have been the way to go with such a discussion. Instead, all he's done is open up the "racist" can of worms.
Pederast Harry Reid calls on Republicans to throw Cliven Bundy under the bus and then join Dingy Harry in trolling bus stops for young homeless teen boys looking for companionship...
Uncle Harry knows the best public restrooms in Nevada...
Harry Reid is in this for money. He is as corrupt as the day is long. It is high time that people distance themselves from him.
Lydia, perhaps the BLM could have not occupied that place, and avoided this whole can of worms.
But that's not what big government does.
Anyone who does not praise the federal government is a racist, that is just how it works these days.
Add him to the pube/duck platform-that's your party congrats!
The only question is will he speak before Phil or after Mama Grizzily?
An honest discussion about race would have to be frank about the fact that a return to a society as free as possible from social engineering, a meritocratic society, a laissez faire society, in other words an equal opportunity society, would result in stark inequalities of outcome. Why? Because there are stark group as well as individual differences not only in intelligence but in industriousness, in impulse control and in timeframe thinking. I know this how? By observing. Which gives the total lie to Meade's beloved EQUALITY myth. In simple english a free equal opportunity society, should it ever God willing be reestablished, will not be kind to blacks. It will be just to them. I choose to believe what my lying eyes tell me. Meade and his ilk cry racism. Water off my back. But enough to terrorize millions into a denial of what their lying eyes tell them.
Lydia,
Did you watch the video? Did you not see his comments on the strength of Hispanic immigrant families? About their work ethic?
Seems he did just what you asked.
I said he should have talked about the culture of welfare overall, not just about it and blacks. The Hispanics he's talking about are not part of that welfare culture.
Meade and his wife have chosen to live very public lives. And yet, despite living in one of the most racist cities in the country as documented in data on segregation, police repression and income inequality, I've not seen evidence of either of them so much as lifting a finger to help make a change for the better in the lives of the African American people living in Madison.
Perhaps I missed it or perhaps their modesty leads then to act quietly as they toil away working for the betterment of Black Madison.
Or perhaps they are simply hypocrites who decry racism while living safely and happily within the prosperous and largely monocultural university cocoon.
Attention Scoldy Harry Reid Fan/Nuisance Who Takes Racism Very Seriously When It's A Convenient Means to Score Cheap Points in a Tedious Online Grudge:
In 2010, the book “Game Change” reported that Reid had praised President Obama, before he was elected, as someone who is “light skinned” and has “no Negro dialect.”
Ooops. I guess sidling up to Harry Reid was not such a good idea after all. He seems awfully fond of that old timey racist talk, like he's obviously pining for plantations and forced labor and maybe a photo op with a light-skinned educated Negro. But just for the political benefits, you understand. I suggest distancing yourself from this blatant racist.
Meade supports Harry Reid. Figures.
I'm not sure that the conversation he was looking for was an ignorant and condescending one.
Not that I care much any more these days. But seriously - slave "family life"? This guy is a full-on retard. He should learn something about slavery before advocating it -- especially for others. It's offensive to the mind to even fathom what he doesn't know about the concept of "family" in the context of American slavery. What a nutter.
I don't recall any of us jumping on Bundy's bandwagon. We were suspicious of the BLM's over-reaction. We are suspicious of the most corrupt Senate leader, Harry Reid. Harry Reis has a laundry list of corruption.
Everyone says we need to have a conversation about it, but as soon as you start talking anywhere near the truth...
The truth is that someone who uses the term "family life" in connection to slavery is a dolt.
If you prefer conversations with ignorant asses then I'm afraid that's just not the standard most people aim for when it comes to more serious things.
5:36 Rabel - thank you.
This morning I woke up, turned on the t.v. (mistake) and that Tom Somebody was on, a radio guy I think, now on t.v., a picture of U.S. capitol behind him, a black man called in, "... and Fox is racist and has been ever since Obama..." *click*
Yeah. When the left says "have an honest open discussion on ____" that is merely their way of identifying targets to pounce on en mass.
Oh my. KKK Madison
Bundy is old and has been isolated. He does not know that whites are not allowed to talk about blacks. Nobody I know ever says anything directly good or bad about black people. We just don't.
The Left will never vote for Cliven Bundy. That goes without saying. But they'll keep on backing ole Harry Reid. Just like they did Robert Byrd. And they'll keep covering for race-mongers so long as the race-monger in question isn't white and can bring in votes.
So who are the racists again?
And who is benefitting from white privilege in this equation? (Hint: It's not Clive Bundy.)
Of course when the left throws Ayaan Hirsi Ali under the bus...that is just the way it goes.
@ Lydia
Even if he'd managed to be articulate on the subject of government overreach, Bundy didn't need to single out blacks as being caught up in the culture of welfare. Plenty of people of other races are there as well. That would have been the way to go with such a discussion. Instead, all he's done is open up the "racist" can of worms.
Anyone who ever questioned the BLM or Harry Reid is now a racist because of it. The Squirrel media insist.
ken in sc said...
"Bundy is old and has been isolated."
I agree with you, Ken. I don't hate Clive Bundy. I feel pity for him. I feel pity for anyone who is infected with racist attitudes. Especially anyone who then expresses them.
Racist attitudes will destroy America or America will defeat racist attitudes. It's a wonder (and a tribute to millions of great Americans) that, after all this time, racism hasn't already won.
1. Inconvenient Citizen pops his head up and gets uppity with the government and/or would-be elite. (Previously known as exercising constitutional rights.)
2. Lefties rush to be the first to get irrelevant opinion and/or any random quote that does not fit the KKKorrect political narrative.
3. Lefty herd swarms to denounce and silence inconvenient citizen as a racist or sexist or homophobe or generalized Bad Person then mounts blanket attack on all supporters and/or publicizers of Inconvenient Citizen.
Is Harry Reid corrupt? Is there nepotism going on here?
A lot of thoughtful comments about race here today. The comments by the holier than thou race police are the least inspiring.
Evi L. Bloggerlady said...
Of course when the left throws Ayaan Hirsi Ali under the bus...that is just the way it goes.
I forget, what was her original thought crime against the Left and why do they despise her? Was it her collaboration with Theo van Gogh that they deplored because he dared offend one of their sacred cows?
The Madison Left has a history of targeting her for suppression, as I noted back here
Do you have a lot of black friends, Meade? How about Althouse? Have you ever had any black people over to her house?
Being lectured to by someone who has never had a black person @ their home.
Anyone who ever questioned the BLM or Harry Reid is now a racist because of it.
Not even the great and powerful Meade can redeem Harry Reid.
AllenS said...
Do you have a lot of black friends, Meade? How about Althouse? Have you ever had any black people over to her house?
I suspect that is why they cherish Crack so...appearances you know.
AllenS said...
"Do you have a lot of black friends, Meade?"
The few friends I have are non-white. I try to avoid people who self-identify as "white".
chick:
the offending Ayaan Hirsi Ali statement, according to Brandeis University:
"Once [Islam is] defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace. I think that we are at war with Islam. And there’s no middle ground in wars.”
And then they had a dictator over for a chat.
Oh, I get it! They're not white so long as they don't "self-identify" as white as that is bad.
Just
Pitiful
"Some of my best friends aren't white."
Bwhahahahaha!
What is happening to the black families and culture is not so much a construct of race but of entrenched poverty. Poverty is a mindset that you learn, be it in the inner city ghettos of Chicago and Detroit or in the backwoods of Appalachia (West by God Virginia).
You learn poor ways. You learn not to save or plan for the future. There is a culture of poverty that crosses all racial lines.
In a normal world....without the government encouraging and subsidizing poverty, people will eventually escape and go on to bigger things. History is full of such instances.
One of the worst things that people, who are in a poverty culture, can do is to become insular and isolated. Sometimes this happens because of outside forces. Segregation and Jim Crow. Other times it is geographical isolation. Currently, for not just blacks, but also hispanics, muslims etc, it is self imposed. There is NOTHING in this world forcing people to remain in Chicago or other ghettoized environments other than their own lack of will AND...>AND the government subsidizing their lifestyle.
Until we face the lock that the culture of poverty has on people and face the guilt of the government AND the guilt of well meaning liberal progressives in perpetrating this....we will never get any better.
So all the little scolding squirrels trying to distract from the issues....and Meade acting like the Church Lady from SNL calling people racist for pointing out the facts. getting his panties in a wad.....until we FACE the facts, there will be no removing people from the self perpetuating culture of poverty.
Meade said...
The few friends I have are non-white. I try to avoid people who self-identify as "white".
What do you put down on the census form?
Meade wrote: Racist attitudes will destroy America or America will defeat racist attitudes.
Meade: This is why I applaud the very recent SCOTUS decision.
Rhythm and Balls said...
I'm not sure that the conversation he was looking for was an ignorant and condescending one.
Not that I care much any more these days. But seriously - slave "family life"? This guy is a full-on retard. He should learn something about slavery before advocating it -- especially for others. It's offensive to the mind to even fathom what he doesn't know about the concept of "family" in the context of American slavery. What a nutter.
Takes one to know one.
Ritmo never heard that the black family was stronger than most white ones until the Democrats from FDR on got their hands on them.
He also thinks every black family in the South was broken up at the auction block.
Maybe he should go back and watch the Burns docu on the Civil War. some of the most moving letters in that are between slaves - those going off to fight and those staying behind.
Ritmo wouldn't know of such things. He thinks black people can't survive without white Leftists telling them how to live.
And expecting them to worship their new Massas.
The key is to find an inconsequential villain that everyone can hate and talk about, that way the really evil folks who indulge corruption, abuse power, and destroy lives of people from very diverse backgrounds can go back to their habits with impunity. With righteous indignation in fact!
Reid is the real villain. Corruption is the most racist expression possible, keeping people down and keeping them distracted, keeping them from addressing the real issues that keeps people trapped in feelings of despair.
Meade and Clive Bundy are both white.
You know what that means.
" I try to avoid people who self-identify as "white"."
By living in Madison, WI?
I need to get on here more often and preach at you midwesterners about the hardships of living through tough winters. I mean I saw that stuff on the TV news, so I know my shit, and you guys need to toughen up.
Meade,
I'm beginning to be concerned. Your argumentation grows weaker with each of the droppings you leave here at Lem's.
You were wrong about Moynihan, you are wrong about Bundy. If I may be so bold, I suggest that you consider asking Mama for a little help. She's quite talented at this sort of thing. Exceptional, in fact.
And tell me, my not-white friend, that dust-up over at Althouse and the vague rationale for cutting off comments - it wasn't about her, was it. It was about you and effect the negative and disrespectful comments about your mate were having on your fragile psyche. I can understand. We all have our weaknesses.
Just remember, help is only a phone call away.
Corruption is killing America. You stand with corruption or you stand against it.
Harry Reid's Long, Steady Accretion of Power & Wealth
@Patrick O's bold statement of truth.
"Reid is the real villain. Corruption is the most racist expression possible, keeping people down and keeping them distracted, keeping them from addressing the real issues that keeps people trapped in feelings of despair."
Harry reid is master of the distraction. Sad how many people drink his poison.
"As Ed Morissey said..."
'Captain Ed' is a grade A, number 1, dumbshit.
He isn't even a conservative.
Blacks have some problems as a group in America. They are worse off everywhere else in the world, especially Africa, but that is no excuse for what we are doing now here. We made great sacrifices to end slavery, then to fight the discrimination, and great progress was made legally and in the minds and hearts of most people.
More recently Blacks have suffered new problems that seem to look like the old ones, but are they really caused by the old issues or are they really new causes and new problem? I argue that the later is the case and that approaches like a few are expressing here are at the root of the new setbacks Blacks are struggling with. We want the progress to continue, but it takes the kind of guts that it took in the past to move again. You aren't much help if you just hide in your comfort zone and berate those facing the facts and asking the questions.
The correct response to liberals calling you racist, is "So what?"I couldn't care less what Bundy thinks about Race.
People keep giving the liberals a stick to conservatives with. The Tea Party was "racist", every Republican is "Racist", every white person who isn't "progressive" is racist".
And conservatives just play into it with the "well, I hate racism too.." At least no one has said "some of my best friends are black" yet.
Bundy comment was badly spoken. He showed the kind of weird paternalism toward black folks I often see in old people. I doubt many black people care about Bundy.
Blacks deserve a equal opportunity and that's it. If they don't take advantage of it, then so be it.
OT -Oh hell. A spoiler has entered the senate race in CO.
The democrats will do anything to hold on to power.
Liberal attitudes will destroy America or America will defeat liberal attitudes.
There- I fixed that for you Meade.
Bundy raised some consequential questions even if unartful. I'm reminded of Orwell, when, in the late 40s defending an otherwise despised MP who insisted on bringing up Japanese war atrocities at a time when a war-weary public wanted to forget and move on and thus was ignored by Parliament citing his personal failings as an excuse to do so: "What you have to understand, " Orwell said, rising in defense of his fellow MP, "is that these things really happened despite the fact that Lord Fxxxx said they happened."
This is how the democrats operate now. The independent in the race has no chance in hell and is a "conservative-lite" to siphon off just enough votes do the dem can speak out a slim victory.
What if some of your best friends ARE Black? Do you have to keep it a secret like in the old days?
Some of my best friends are leftists, and I love them, but I have to admit it is a little embarrssing.
I don't think that there is any way whatsoever to interpret what Bundy said as *in any way* Blacks having it *good* when they were slaves.
He's saying that he thinks they've got it worse now... which is arguable, sort of. But it's not saying that slavery was good, just that the government dole is not better.
Ta Neshi said something pretty darn similar to what Bundy said, and also now that I think of it, to what the Duck guy said. So Ta Neshi can say it, can point out that blacks had strong families and strong work ethics and loved to travel and all of those good character elements when slavery ended...
And Meade, who I usually ignore, shows up to chortle like an ass because? Who the hell knows?
Because Ta Neshi can say it... he can point out that blacks, at the event of the end of slavery, had a hardworking, responsible, family oriented culture that valued those things and *old* white guys who saw some of that transition of hard working families to the idle poor, the broken and crime ridden communities... they can't point out that *not even* slavery managed to destroy what the welfare state destroyed.
But whatev... Meade's got their back and can be counted on to show up to stomp on old fellows who tell the truth, if they don't tell it *perfectly*.
Meade may be working for Crack or crack.
Ken: "Bundy is old and has been isolated. He does not know that whites are not allowed to talk about blacks. Nobody I know ever says anything directly good or bad about black people. We just don't."
I just wanted to add back in the extremely important statement that Ken made that Meade removed.
Whites are not *allowed* to talk about blacks. This demand that we have a national conversation on race was a lie, start to finish. It's a lie all the time. It's just a lie.
That some old rather isolated fellow never got the "shut up, he explained" message about race and foolishly thinks that someone white can speak about race isn't a reason to pity that man... it's a reason to pity society and pity our nation.
Mead's actually playing a deeper game. The Althouse blog must be shown to be "anti-racist", its already under suspicion because its "conservative" (lol).
So what could be more protective of the brand then having Crack post his nonsense, and having Meade pose as Atticus Finch?
Pretty hard for Althouse, despite being so "right-wing" to be labeled a racist, with that going on. Of course, maybe I'm too pragmatic, and Meade really believes all the nonsense he spew on "Race".
On reflection, is there more than a dime's worth of difference, as someone once said, between the ideas of Moynihan and those of Bundy?
I'm having trouble finding much separation.
What the good commenters here have done is reach triple digit comments. They can't buy triple digits over @ TOP. Karma is a motherfucker. LSL does sound lethargic and depressed.
And Meade, who I usually ignore, shows up to chortle like an ass because? Who the hell knows?
Because he is trying to walk the fine line between what he really thinks, and what his meal ticket wants him to think.
It is an admirable thing to try to support your significant other in their endeavors in life. We all should do this......Unless, and until you are put into the position of bastardizing your soul and posturizing your beliefs to appease the "powers that be" in order to keep peace at home.
Being a "yes man" is a very uncomfortable position, indeed.
And....he probably wants to continue to get laid.
DBQ, At most he gets a tug once a month. With a rubber gloved hand.
Maybe Meade is Reid.
I agree that one must never ever ever mention race, if white, much as Sweden decided to prosecute you for not loving Islam.
Hi Ritmo! You said...
The truth is that someone who uses the term "family life" in connection to slavery is a dolt.
If you prefer conversations with ignorant asses then I'm afraid that's just not the standard most people aim for when it comes to more serious things.
Well, my friend--and you know I mean it--in the case the dolt in question may be looking back at you when you shave in the morning.
A couple of "dolts" named Robert Fogel and Stanley Engerman wrote a lot of stuff on slavery. You could even say that they sparked a national conversation about it, back in the days when such things apparently were possible. (This seems like a pretty good overview of the main points of the debate their book triggered.)
Not gonna go into the whole thing, but I'll mention that one of the many controversial findings they reported was this:
The belief that slave-breeding, sexual exploitation, and promiscuity destroyed the black family is a myth. The family was the basic unit of social organization under slavery. It was to the economic interest of planters to encourage the stability of slave families and most of them did so. Most slave sales were either of whole families or of individuals who were at an age when it would have been normal for them to have left the family.
Oh, and that "dolt" Robert Fogel eventually received a Nobel Memorial Prize in economics. If you follow that last link you'll also discover that this fuckin' wingnut spent his early years as a diehard communist.
Oh, and here's a pic of the Aryan Uberfrau this Klansman was married to from 1949 until her death in 2007.
Now I realize that boring old scholarly tomes representing years of archival research can take a lot longer to digest than a movie like Twelve Years a Slave, let alone that tightly-reasoned, impeccably-sourced blog The Psycho Response, and I certainly don't fault you for not being familiar with it.
I do think, though, that you ought to be a little more circumspect about making smug claims about your superior grasp of the facts compared to people who say things you find unpleasant.
Just sayin'.
Chip, facts are racist.
That's the most I've seen ChipS write in months! I think he's overcome his writer's block.
"Do you have a lot of black friends, Meade?"
The few friends I have are non-white. I try to avoid people who self-identify as "white".
Translation: Meade has no Black friends. Sorry Crack.
nick, somebody gave me this (NSFW) book a while back.
My wrist sprain has finally healed.
Thank you, Chip S ... I have sought a concise study on the subject and you've provided it. So, thanks.
Glad to be useful, Ari.
Oh, and belated but most hearty congrats.
I don't care whether anybody or anything is racist.
The people who keep harping on racism, however, are complete shits, aren't they?
My black girl friend of the last year and a half is a liberal Democrat and isn't apt to change in spite of my efforts. She has the usual problems with coworkers but never resorts to referring to them as racists, although she can and will provide me with detailed descriptions of their offenses.
It's worth remembering all the good hard working black people in our midst, even if they did vote for Obama. My last haircut was in a black barbershop in the poor side of town and that's where you will find them.
I don't have any problem with being an old white redneck and don't have any solutions for the plight of the poor. Except maybe be nice to somebody once in awhile.
[ ráy sìzzəm ]
1. Animosity toward other races: prejudice or animosity against people who belong to other races
2. Belief in racial superiority: the belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities, and that some races are inherently superior or inferior
Re-reading Meade's comments this morning, he seems even dumber. A man without a soul.
You might not like what Bundy said, but you knew it was his true feelings. Meade, on the other hand just had to say: "Nevada has a chapter of the KKK - the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan." Which was a complete lie.
I'd trust Bundy before Meade on honesty.
Would it be best to completely ignore Meade?
Agreed.
Would it be best to completely ignore Cliven Bundy?
Cliven Bundy is in the news, evidently, because he's newsworthy. You? Not so much.
I'm still wondering what you put down on the census form for race. Go ahead, say something stupid. We're expecting it.
As long as we're ignoring Harry Reid, we're performing our function as obedient drones.
Well, any Democratic corruption, because random guy with unfortunate opinions is much more vital to our national identity than government officials, you know, dealing in arms trafficking or accumulating vast wealth through their government service.
Dance, citizens! Sing your songs of rage against the inconsequential!
I left it blank, Allen. Why, what did you put down?
Meade, apparently, you are guilty of racism. You're always BSing about it.
So, why don't you go wallow in guilt on your own instead of trying to recruit others to wallow with you?
Your racism obsession is fine if you keep it to yourself. Your braying about it makes you a stupid jackass.
The "self-identify as white" thing the other days was a classic bit of jackass stupidity.
Are you really that fucking stupid or do you think pretending to be that fucking stupid is a joke?
Blank means white in Spanish. Ask Lem. El Blanko.
He also left gender, income and marital status blank. He's nowhere man.
It appears Nick failed to read his census questionnaire. It doesn't ask for "gender". It asks for biological sex. 2 choices: M or F.
SO this is where everyone is. Before scrolling down I'm willing to bet that at least 40% of the posts after the last one of mine are from the world's most stupid internet commenter.
Wow, almost none of the comments are from Ritmo, what a shock!
Meade, trying to drum up some blog traffic to your meal ticket's rapidly dwindling site? I hope her retirement takes you into your geriatric years, as I wouldn't count on that amazon portal.
Pathetic.
I think she displays him as her kept pet. Her own little form of affirmative action. Although it is still considered poor taste to be diddled by the garden help, she scores progressive points by taking him in.
Would it be best to completely ignore Meade?
There is also no such thing as complete ignoring. The eye sees what it sees as the brain decides whether to read or scroll past the bright red bird in rooster mode.
While refusing to engage is one choice, ignoring dishonest, manipulative and abusive behavior rarely stops it from happening again.
In the search for "best", the 11:42 PM comment by ChipS strikes me as a good example of thoughtful and reasoned debate. It invites something other than snark.
Meade is someone to laugh at. Check this out:
It appears Nick failed to read his census questionnaire. It doesn't ask for "gender". It asks for biological sex. 2 choices: M or F.
Can you imagine Meade looking this up on Google just to do his snark. Does he really think that anyone has a questionnaire at home?
My question. Did Althouse pat him on the top of his head and say: "Good one, Lawn Boy."
"It asks for biological sex."
That's the best kind! Much better than mechanical sex.
This is also why I pretend not to be home if the census man comes by.
Economists can pretend to be historians, but they aren't. And neither they nor their cheerleaders can pretend that the buying of individual slave-boys and slave-fathers away from their families and selling them to the next interested buyer several plantations away was pro-family. This is just crapola of the highest order to deny. How blind does one have to be? When a living thing, like a pet, is property, intact pet-families are NOT the norm. The pets are bought, sold or traded at the owners' whimsy, and not in any way that furthers the perpetuation of family ties and togetherness of any sort of natural unit as would resemble those typical among human families.
The mind boggles.
ST, Faculty "Friend" singular. And he was of course introduced as her lawn boy.
Most slave sales were either of whole families or of individuals who were at an age when it would have been normal for them to have left the family.
Translation: 16-year old boys never remained in touch with their birth families or had the benefit that such extended ties (including grandparents, aunts and uncles) would have carried, but somehow this was a natural and very family-oriented thing to do to them and their children. Not having any family with whom to remain in contact (by law) was better for blacks then than things are for them now, what with their ability to travel and speak freely with the people who bore and raised them as children. Everyone knows how natural it is to deprive children of grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins.
You've got to be smoking something awful, Chip.
If you believe what you just wrote, Mo, and I doubt that you do, then why do you support what the federal government does to families on welfare today?
"Everyone knows how natural it is to deprive children of grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins."
And fathers.
Don't forget FATHERS, Ritmo.
Zing. She got you there, Ritmo ;)
Ritmo BSing sanctimoniously about slavery.
That's close to a operating definition of Hell.
Where did I support depriving children of fathers, you Bristol Palin sycophants? Lol.
Glad to know how easy it is for S. Tomas to go to hell.
;-)
Somehow, Fogel and Engerman concluded that only 13 percent of slave sales broke up marriages. And yet slave "marriages" had no legal standing anywhere in any state. Maybe Chip S. can explain Fogel and Engerman's scholarly scientific reasoning on that.
And if not Chip, then perhaps Cliven Bundy will.
Time on the Cross, by Robert Fogel and Stanley Engerman, Vol. I, p. 49.
Perhaps their fear that their marriages required the blessing of their owners made them better husbands and fathers, Meade. Slave-owners were the state, in this regard. A great improvement, no doubt, in the minds of the anti-statists.
Antigovernment Obsession Preceded Las Vegas Shootings
Meade linked...
Antigovernment Obsession Preceded Las Vegas Shootings
June 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM
As long as we're accusing groups by loose association, let me be the first to note that the nutjob in Meade's link was Hoosier.
Cliven Bundy — back in the news.
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