Sunday, October 9, 2016

debate Donald Trump VS Hillary Clinton

Make your comments here if you like.

84 comments:

Chip Ahoy said...

I know who I'm voting for and that is not going to change. And I cannot get Donald Trump to say things that I need him to say and I can never get Hillary to STFU, go away and die already, but it would be great to see her seize. So there's something worth watching. And that exceedingly shit-eating grin of hers really does annoy more even than Trump's sniffing. Also Trump is very repeat-y, but he usually is.

XRay said...

Ha, the shit eating grin. Summation really, there's not much more there than that.

I couldn't watch, other than a few minutes. She's a socialist idiot, he's not very smart. Really, he's not very smart, else he would be doing better.

I'm not changing my vote. But it is becoming embarrassing to defend.

XRay said...

Okay, watched another few minutes, while eating dinner. Both are beneath us as America. It's just all bullshit, all the time. Which I guess is what we have become.

edutcher said...

Shot: TRUMP: "Bernie Sanders and between super delegates and Debra Wassermann Schultz and I was surprised to see him sign on with the devil. The thing that you should be apologizing for are the 33,000 e-mails that you deleted and you acid washed and the two boxes of e-mails and other things last week that were taken from an office are are now missing. I didn't knowledge I would say this, but I'm going to and I hate to say it. If I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation. There has never been so many lies, so much exception. There has never been anything like it. We will have a special prosecutor. I go out and speak and the people of this country are furious. The long time workers at the FBI are furious. There has never been anything like this with e-mails. You get a subpoena and after getting the subpoena you delete 33,000 e-mails and acid watch them or bleach them. An expensive process. We will get a special prosecutor and look into it. You know what, people have been -- their lives have been destroyed for doing 1/5 of what you have done. You should be ashamed."

Chaser: CLINTON: "Everything he said is absolutely false. It would be impossible to be fact checking Donald all the time. I would never get to talk and make lives better for people. Once again, go to Hillary clinton.com. You can fact check trump in realtime. Last time at the first debate we had millions of people fact checking and we will have millions more fact checking. It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country."

TRUMP: "Because you would be in jail."

COOPER: "We want to remind the audience to please not talk out loud. Do not applaud. You are wasting time."

Trooper York said...

Because you would be in jail!

Hee.

Trooper York said...

I thought Trump did great.

Better was the press conference with the women Clinton had assaulted, raped and abused by the Clinton.

That shut up the lying media.

XRay said...

Not everyone is as obsessed as you, Ed.

Meaning, details mean nothing.

There was a chance to step up to the plate with broad and substantial words. Failed.

Trooper, you too dream.

Sorry, I'm not in disagreement with either of you. But this isn't being done smartly.

chickelit said...

Trump did quite well.

I returned from two days of wilderness camping to find bloggers obsessed with a non-story which broke Friday evening. I'm glad it became a non-story so quickly.

edutcher said...

Big whoop. Same old stuff from people who have no real enthusiasm for their side.

Howsomever, it doesn't look as though that view is going to prevail. When one of the Beast's spokesmen can only twat (was that "lewd and vulgar"?), “Go fuck yourself!” or whjen the candidate's "family" sits through the thing looking like this.

edutcher said...

chick, it is now.

Looks like Frumpty's eyes also had it tonight.

A whole new ballgame, as they say.

edutcher said...

Headline off Breitbart:

Donald Trump Wins Second Debate; CNN Says It Doesn’t Matter.

If CNN says it doesn't matter, he did more than win it.

ndspinelli said...

Trump obviously prepared and did better. Go figure.

edutcher said...

He had a different objective. Last time he had to show he could stay cool regardless of what was thrown at him.

This time, show where he was going to put the hammer down on her crowd and bring this country back. "You'd be in jail", is going to be one of those lines people remember.

ndspinelli said...

LOL! He phoned it in the first time, he prepared this time. I would bet 5 large Conway, Bannon, Ailes would say that in private. Anyone w/ fucking ounce of objectivity would say that. "Different objective." LOL. The objective is to win. Energizer Baghdad Ed.

ndspinelli said...

I have had several conversations w/ women the past few days, including my bride. They wanted to know if Trump talking like he did w/ the hot mic was common. I said it was not unusual, I don't know it it's common. Depends what circles you run in, for the most part. It certainly wasn't shocking for men, unless they are girly, academic types. I suggest political reporters interview female sports reporters, particularly the pioneers. If honest, they would confirm Trumps rap was low to mid range vulgar.

ndspinelli said...

When you whittle all the horseshit away, it was pretty small potatoes.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Geez nd. How come the ladies that you and all these other guys know are never asked what kind of things they talk about when they go into the bathroom together at restaurants and other fancy events.

It's not innocent talk. It's almost all about men or sexual and whatever they're saying about men is not un-objectifying.

The current magazine stand issue of Cosmopolitan has a piece on how they went through all the sex toys on the market in order to rate them - for the reader's convenience. And wow are they tired.

Men are objectified all the time. As husbands, as material providers, as basically disembodied economic units - which in this election is even being considered - the torpedoing of the working class. The fact that all these impotent men in America see this happening, bitch about it, and don't call out Clinton for taking advantage of this double-standard when she finally does just that is downright lamentable.

ndspinelli said...

Ritmo, I guess most men are more secure and don't care WTF women say about us. I sure don't.

ndspinelli said...

What women say about men isn't even small potatoes, it's baby peas.

Trooper York said...

Only a pussy would be upset about Donald Trump talking about getting pussy.

Rhythm and Balls said...

You don't have to care about it to call HRC out as the mother of all double-standards-justifying hypocrites.

William said...

I'm sure Trump won the debate and won by a wide margin. Doesn't matter. Hillary is still the odds on favorite to win the election......The media are openly recruiting any woman who ever dated Trump to come forward and claim that he groped her. Trump dated any number of minor celebrities who now have the opportunity to become, for a moment, major celebrities. You can bet they won't be considered bimbos. If they're halfway good looking, they can maybe surpass Anita Hill and get their. Own HBO movie.........I think any one of Hillary's top five or six scandals is worse than a knee grab in the back of a limo, but that's just my opinion. I'm a white guy who's not considering a sex change operation so my opinion can be safely written off. A fairly large majority of women in America will not vote for Trump. I don't think you can win an election by carrying the white men and only the white men.

rcommal said...

Well before my son was born, I bought and read "The War against Boys":

From that day to this, on account of that, I have not betrayed my son, nor men.

Methadras said...

This was Trump's carpet bombing mission. Clearly prepared and you could tell the moderators were doing everything in their power to stanch the cuts over and under HRC twitching eyes. She's never been savaged like that in public and she new it. You could see the indignation in her face. But Chelsie and Bubba gave it away. The veneer finally came off.

Brilliant stroke on Trump's part to utterly diffuse his open mic bullshit by putting up Bubba's rape victims. Also, as to the open mic thing. It's all bullshit. If that mic wasn't hot you wouldn't have known anything about that conversation, so why should that change it now? Pretend you never heard it. Guess what? Who cares and clearly the public is taking that to account. It'll be interesting to see if the bump needle changes though.

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

His jail comment was priceless.

Sixty Grit said...

Trooper York said...
Only a pussy would be upset about Donald Trump talking about getting pussy.

And only a democrat pussy would not be upset about Bill Clinton getting some, all while married to, eww...

rcommal said...

As too-easily offended pussies go, I am not one of them. Full stop. Such a shame that people have chosen to view me in that way. Y'all don't get to criticize me for going silent, not to mention leaving a blank at a top of the ticket, when the truth is that you'd rather that I'd go away and just shut up & etc.

C'mon now: You know it's true. 'Fess up.

Bless your hearts.

edutcher said...

No, it was a different objective, but nd has to get in something negative.

We'll know how well The Donald did by how many days before the Bluebird of Happiness shows up.

edutcher said...

Who won last night?

Consider this from one of the pool reporters on Frumpty's plane

”We need to take off so we can have some drinks served,” Hillary says on her campaign plane

Titus said...

Trump talking about pussy was cool.

Please I talk with my friends all the time about getting pussy.

tits.

Titus said...

I call it a cunt though.

windbag said...

Turning points in Presidential history:

Truman makes it acceptable to punch reporters when they give you bad press.
LBJ makes picking up dogs by their ears acceptable in polite society.
Bubba makes blowjobs and cigar-dildos acceptable to talk about in polite society.
Trump makes pussy-grabbing acceptable to talk about in polite society. Is it a porn category yet?

Ground-breaking election in the works here.

AprilApple said...

We picked a beauty pageant World Wrestling Playboy weirdo to debate her. Bad idea.

"He's just like Reagan" is the dumbest comparison ever. Trump is the opposite of Reagan. He's the anti-Reagan. What kind of mass delusion is in that koolaid?

chickelit said...

In the whole history of American politics there is no example of one reviled by half the population winning against one reviled by the other half? I cannot believe that.

chickelit said...

I think the only "new wrinkle" to all of this is that narrative control by the media spinning out of control. At one point, Anderson Cooper looked downright distressed. That's what disconcerting to some.

ricpic said...

"Only a pussy would get upset about Donald Trump talking about getting pussy."

Not to worry, he's got mens' votes. The issue is how much women were put off.

edutcher said...
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edutcher said...

Reagan cheated on Wyman.

No, he's a lot more like Reagan than the gullible would like to believe.

chickelit said...

In the whole history of American politics there is no example of one reviled by half the population winning against one reviled by the other half? I cannot believe that.

Well, you can always take a shot at 1860.

Or 1828.

Or 1980.

PS Surber does George Patton in this summation of the past 2 debates, which I think is on the money. Except maybe for the knockout.

I don't have to say who won the debate. But Debate No. 2 showed the Trumpian strategy for Debate No. 1. Old school rule: You are not allowed to hit a girl. Never, ever, never.

Unless she hits you. Then you have the right to defend yourself.

She hit him on Friday to deflect the Wikileak. That is a great Clintonian strategy that dates back to bombing pill factories in 1998 on the day Monica Lewinsky appeared before the grand jury.

But it is 2016, and that play became a fumble.

Saying the word "pussy" is tame compared to rape, and The Donald easily made that point before the debate by holding a press conference with a few of Clinton's victims. And yes, they are Hillary's victims. Including a raped 12-year-old girl:

At 12 years old, Hillary put me through something that you would never put a 12-year-old through. And she says she's for women and children. And she was asked last year on what happened and she says she's supposed to defend whether they they did it or not. Now she's laughing on tape, saying she know they did it.

Then came the debate. We saw last night a Trump in control and under control. He had roped the dope, and he knew it. Team Clinton went for the jugular. He side-stepped and counter-punched. I see it as a knockout. But I am biased

AprilApple said...

https://twitter.com/AndrewStilesUSA/status/785488235405406208

New from wiki-leaks. Team Clinton terrified that GOP would select someone other than Trump. Thrilled GOP came thru in the end.

windbag said...

Trump never left a woman to drown in his car while he and his flunkies sat around and planned the PR campaign to get out of it. He did say something mean once, though, so he's unfit for office.

bagoh20 said...

I wonder how many deeply offended people who believe Trump committed a crime would call the cops if they overheard it themselves in the locker room. If they wouldn't, then it is them who don't take sexual assault seriously.

Amartel said...

Next up: Parade of ladies claiming Trump sexually assaulted them.

edutcher said...

Team Hillary (she can't even copy correctly) guessed wrong.

All the Rs knew Trump was unbeatable.

Only the gullibles and the Ozark Mafia thought otherwise.

PS Why should I care, or believe, anything Andrew Stiles (whoever he is) says?

windbag said...

Trump never left a woman to drown in his car while he and his flunkies sat around and planned the PR campaign to get out of it. He did say something mean once, though, so he's unfit for office.

Trump also hasn't got a body count of ~50.

bagoh20 said...
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bagoh20 said...

You would think that by now we have well established that both candidates are seriously flawed, and we could move on to the seriously important issue of which asshole would make a better President. On the issues, Trump wins, and he did a weak but much improve job of getting back to that this time. He was great last night for those who already are voting for him. I watched it in a bar in Las Vegas where the debate narrowly won a quick vote over music on the sound system. Some of us cheered at his answers at times, like the "You'd be in Jail." one which was perfect and perfectly delivered. He did a great job of turning the scandals back on her, and it got cheers from the already committed, but when real issues were up, I could see people struggling over the noise to hear what he said, and listening for something that would spell change from the status quo. They noticeably lost interest and stopped listening when Hillary talked issues. It was like she was saying "blah, blah, blah, which she was. He needs to keep at the issues more, because the voters up for grabs - the ones he needs to win - are listening hard now. They want a reason to vote for him, and it won't take much. He's losing right now, but the win is at hand when he talks real policy, even when it's not realistic. People have clearly stopped buying or even listening to Democrats' rhetoric, especially from this Dem. It's a real opportunity for him. That's why the scandal stuff has such legs.

edutcher said...

Most candidates are seriously flawed.

You think Jack Kennedy, or Lyndon Johnson, or Ol' Bucketmouth Carter, or Willie Whitewater were any prizes?

Yes, Nixon was no angel, but he at least kept his pants zipped and had no illusions about Communism.

Dad Bones said...

Trump looked like the boss and Hillary the brassy secretary that he hired. She can make him angry but he doesn't fear or hate her, something that I hope people pick up on even if it's subliminally. Hillary is the one with the erratic temperament, not Trump. She gets pleasure in taking out her enemies; with Trump it's just something that needs to be done.

edutcher said...

The business of the erratic temperament - screaming and swearing, throwing things and hitting people - has been out there a while, but good point.

There's also the issue of how her infirmities affect that - the Secret Service told reporters at the debate no flashes due to her seizure disorder.

On that note, an interesting point by Tammy Bruce.

Here’s what’s important about last night. Even though the content was good and he got to the issues – People saw Armageddon for the last 48 hours. And they were wondering: Would he at least survive?

He not only survived. He prevailed. This is a test of leadership. This is what the Clinton campaign gave him, effectively – was showing the American people that he can be under massive attack from all sides, be able to deal with it, adapt, change, and then be steady, be focused on the issues. And that’s a test of leadership that you can’t speak about or tell people about. You have to show it. And he showed it last night.

That’s the thing that resonates with everyone. Women. Independents. Undecideds. It’s leadership at a time of crisis.

bagoh20 said...
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bagoh20 said...

When talking about uncommitted voters that Trump could get, which is really the only people who count now, and is all he should be concentrating on, when they hear some of the unfortunate off-the-cuff things he says, it often leads them to fear giving him power. When he talks policy with real ideas and plans it's always less scary than their imagination. Even policy ideas that probably won't happen help to make him less scary, and an alternative to what many don't want: the same old shit. Hillary is the face of the same old shit.

People are so hungry for something different, that When Trump says anything grounded and real on the issues, he is taken much more seriously than her. He is seen as a real alternative then, and they will buy that product even if they have to sneak it home in brown paper bag. He needs to exploit that all the way to election day.

bagoh20 said...

The answers to the questions about what you respect about the other candidate, I thought were honest. She didn't say what she actually respected about him, she deferred to his family, which was a cop out, and cowardly. He answered exactly as I would have expected about her tenacity, but he should have ended with how that can be a dangerous quality if you have the wrong ideas or motivations. Most people see that as her biggest negative.

Trooper York said...

AprilApple said...
https://twitter.com/AndrewStilesUSA/status/785488235405406208

New from wiki-leaks. Team Clinton terrified that GOP would select someone other than Trump. Thrilled GOP came thru in the end

Truly irredeemable.

bagoh20 said...

Trump's split with the GOP, was entirely unnecessary and maybe fatal, but it was his doing. He could have held them in his pocket till election day with a few choice things said and not said during this campaign. His skin was too thin, and his intellect too short term. He practically forced them to abandon him, but the reason they eventually used as the last straw, is completely bogus, and shows them as being full of shit. I support people not accepting him, if they feel strongly, but saying a locker room comment is why is complete crap.

edutcher said...

No, bag, the Whigs split from him and it will cost them. This was something the Bush family pulled, not the Lefties, and it seems most of the Whigs knew it was coming.

If you're old enough, you remember the "unity" candidacy of John Anderson in 1980.

Same thing. Should Trump win, they will have a lot of time to contemplate the old Klingon proverb.

Troop, it's a joke. If they were dumb enough to hope Trump got it after Ted's, Marco's, and Jeb!'s campaign managers knew a year ago they were beat, they're almost as dumb as their biggest cheerleader here. Anybody who buys Roe's stupid rumor that the phone call from Willie to Trump long before he decided to run was some kind of deal will believe anything. One reasonably presumes their glee was that Trump, as a novice, would be easy to beat, not that "the fix was in", as someone keeps whining.

If their research was so poor, they didn't know what the other Rs knew, well, we saw the results of that last night. They picked the same kind of fight the One True Ted did and got their heads handed to them in the same way.

Trooper York said...

You don't get it. They are traitors. Not to Trump. To the people they claim to represent.

Trump and Trumps supporters did not split with the GOP. They split with us. They tried every device and stratagem to steal the nomination. They are still scheming. They have gone so far as saying that duly elected electors pledged to vote for Trump should vote for Pence to throw the election to the House of Representatives.

Paul Ryan and the Bushes first among them. This last bullshit story was a direct hit piece by the Bush family as one of them precipitated it. I regret I ever supported or defended George Bush. As do millions upon millions of other people who feel as I do. The Deplorables. The Irredeemables.

There will be a reckoning regardless of what happens in this election. I still am confident that Trump will win. Whe he does he needs to build a new party. Be it Republican or not. But the Quislings and the fifth column globalists will really not like what happens next. Mr. Trump pointed the way when he mentioned a special prosecutor. I hope he goes after the corrupt duopoly scumbags of both parties and nails their asses to the wall.

Trooper York said...

I would put fatso in at Attorney General and tell him to go after the courrpt Washington scumbags like he does the jelly donut tray at Krispy Kreme. Starting with Paul Ryan, that pussy out in Utah and of course first and foremost Hillary.

I strongly suggest that Obama issue pardons to Hillary, Holder, Panetta, Blumenthal, Mills, Paul Ryan and the Director of the FBI.

Trooper York said...

I am posting a great analysis I read from Vox Day and the Alt Right.

ricpic said...

bags -- there was nothing Trump could do about the Bushes, McConnell or Ryan. Jeb Bush vowed to stop him from being the party's nominee. Trump didn't force them to abandon him. To say that indicates that you seriously misread the "Conservative" Establishment. I know this has been said to the point of exhaustion but they are insiders first, last and always. Trump wasn't a member of the club and as such would never be accepted as THEIR standard-bearer and had to be stopped. Trump's locker room banter with Billy Bush was the Bush Clan's gift to the insiders on the alleged other side.

AprilApple said...

Bush was soundly defeated. I have no idea why people think it was a choice between Trump and Bush.

I guess when your candidate is such a terrible public speaker, and his only flame out of glory this cycle was making immature insults like "little Marco" and "lying Ted "- you gotta build a pretty big strawman to cover up the BS.

Trooper York said...

April you are part of the problem. It is people like you who turn away from the will of the people of the Republican Party as evidenced by their votes that is the problem. It is the establishment of both parties who want to destroy Trump because he is not buying into the duopoly that are the problem.

You called for him to attack Hillary directly. He did very effectively in this debate. He said he would have a special prosecutor and would put her in jail. He spoke effectively about immigration and finding American jobs. About freeing American Energy and saving the jobs of energy workers. He hit point after point. All you can do is carp and do the bidding of your candidate Hillary. Just like all of the media and the both the Rhino and conservative establishments.

You are the true irredeemable.

ricpic said...

The great Troop beat me to the punch. You know I CAN'T find a decent overcoat this year. I mean not something expensive, just a three season coat for all the mucky weather we get up here. I went the LLBean route, always a mistake, and the thing had a HUGE standup collar, too high for me and pinched me just below the waist. Then I go to an outfit called Mountain Khakis and I order something called a ranch jacket and the damned thing is "slightly fitted" (even though they claimed it would be roomy) which means if you have a normal gut it's tight at the waist. I'm going crazy with this stupidity. What ever happened to manufacturers sizing their clothes for us less than model perfects?

Trooper York said...

I know you keep lying and saying that Trump has a secret deal with Hillary.

I think the Bushes made such a deal with Clinton after Jeb was destroyed. This last ambush with the Billy Bush tape is just the most egregious example. The lies and spin of push toadies like Karl Rove and Dana Perino and all the rest of the former Bushies infesting the so called conservative media.

You are the one with the secret corrupt deal. Even if it is only in your mind. I know you will announce you are voting for Hillary because of something stupid Trump said twenty years ago to Howard Stern. Just like all the Republican pussies who are shitting their pants right now and will be shitting even harder as they see Trump win.

AprilApple said...

I speak truth to bullshit. Sorry if you cannot handle it.

Also - I don't do cult of personality. Trump sucks. you picked him, not me.

Trooper York said...

You are the biggest bullshitter here. Your continual lie that Trump made a deal with Clinton to throw the election is just the worst of your lies and pro Hillary spin. Do you really think sitting with Juanita Broderick and Paula Jones is the act of someone who intends to throw the election?

You are the true irredeemable.

Trooper York said...

Trump is the only thing standing between Hillary and the Presidency. You are doing everything in your power to defeat him. No lie, misrepresentation or spin is too low for you.

You are the true irredeemable.

AprilApple said...

Trump and Bill golf together, Trump hates Obama and was resentful that Obama didn't select his old pal Hillary for VP.
Fast forward to a few weeks ago - Right after Trump's numbers started to shoot up and the dems were panicking - Trump stepped on his own dick again with 3 am tweets over a fat chick and a bad debate performance. The sex tapes don't help. I agree I don't give a rat's ass about the sex tapes. and in comparison - Bill the rapist is worse. but here we are down in the mud. I didn't have to be this way. He was a bad choice. Face it.

AprilApple said...

Trump has all the power, Troop. If I had any power at all - or even a fraction of the power you think I have, Trump would never be the nominee.

Chip Ahoy said...

The party fell apart because of the internal tension over the imposition of de facto open borders policy applied fait accompli, with deep fissures in the party on this question, the anti-border control faction prevented the nomination for a career politician of its own incumbent, Senator Cruz, in the 2016 presidential election; instead, the party nominated Donald Trump. Most Republican Party leaders eventually quit politics or changed parties. The northern voter-base mostly gravitated to the new Republican Party candidate. In the South, most did the same, by which time the establishment GOPe had become virtually defunct. Some former GOPe became Democrats. The Libertarian Party experienced significant success from conservative GOPe during the 2016 presidential election. Republican ideology as a policy orientation persisted for decades and played a major role in shaping the modernizing policies of the state governments during reconstruction of basic Constitutional principles.

It's not confusing. It's not troubling unless you are politician. It's not spooky nor mysterious. As voter, It is reason to be cheered that our system is working, and working for us, and ultimately for the good of our country. This is what the breakup of a political party looks like when it has lost its raison d'etre and can no longer represent its constituency. That paragraph is lifted from Wikipedia's entry on Whigs with minor changes, from this:

The party fell apart because of the internal tension over the expansion of slavery to the territories. With deep fissures in the party on this question, the anti-slavery faction prevented the nomination for a full-term of its own incumbent, President Fillmore, in the 1852 presidential election; instead, the party nominated General Scott. Most Whig Party leaders eventually quit politics (as Abraham Lincoln did temporarily) or changed parties. The northern voter-base mostly gravitated to the new Republican Party. In the South, most joined the Know Nothing Party, which unsuccessfully ran Fillmore in the 1856 presidential election, by which time the Whig Party had become virtually defunct. Some former Whigs became Democrats. The Constitutional Union Party experienced significant success from conservative former Whigs in the Upper South during the 1860 presidential election. Whig ideology as a policy orientation persisted for decades and played a major role in shaping the modernizing policies of the state governments during Reconstruction.

edutcher said...
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edutcher said...

The Bluebird of Happiness doesn't get how it could be a contest between Trump and Jeb!.

It was't supposed to be. It was supposed to be a coronation like Hillary had, and then the One True Ted would have been the running mate as the token phony Conservative.

Bush/Bush, if you will. Some people will never get it.

PS Trump and Willie golf together? Like every week? Hardly. Trump, after all, works for a living.

Wow, they've played in a few of the same tournaments and Willie's golfed at a couple of Trump's courses. Even Newsweek (they're still around?) admits any "friendship" ended quite a while ago.

What it really was, in all probability, was the Ozark Spongers cozying up to him for a few million-dollar hits to the Global Slush Fund, although it appears he was too smart for them.

Some people believe anything that fits their mindset. They always end up wrong.

bagoh20 said...

"It is people like you who turn away from the will of the people of the Republican Party as evidenced by their votes that is the problem."

I know he clearly won, but most votes were for someone else, so "the will of the people is hardly" clear here, and that's the problem for us who want to beat Hillary. The will of the people may well be for Hillary by the same lack of a majority. The will of the people also includes Republicans who don't want him. That does not make them traitors. This isn't Iran where the leader must have 99% support except for the guys on the way to the hangman.

bagoh20 said...

"Trump is Hercules"

Hercules was a myth, certainly based on a man far from it. People waiting for him save the day have been less than satisfied.

AprilApple said...

Hillary cannot get above 50%

Right now Trump is struggling to get 40%.

This is what Bagoh is talking about. A primary win doesn't guarantee mass support


I think back to the conversation I had with two friends who are socially liberal and voted for Obama. They are totally disillusioned with Obama and want a different choice. They don't like Clinton and they don't like Trump. The opening there is for Trump and it is Trump's job to get more than just the primary support.

edutcher said...

bag, the Hercules thing's an analogy. Would you like it better if I said Reagan reining in the Evil Empire?

And, in a 16 man field, the votes were going to be dispersed, but let's remember he still garnered more votes and any Republican primary challenger ever.

And Frumpty can't get above 40 any more than Trump can, if most of the polls are right (and I think they're science fiction).

That "He can't get above 40" was what we heard in the primaries and then, mirablie dictu, he could. He even got above 60. Another point to remember is that undecideds break against the incumbent (incompetent, if you prefer), which is most certainly Frumpty.

But, if primary wins don't guarantee mass support, then Little Marco would be getting creamed, too, or do polls taken against a 16 man field guarantee victory in a one on one contest where Marco had already showed his willingness to fold to the Democrats?

But why bother with facts? Like the fact he's got 20% black support, a third of Hispanics, leads with better-earning college grads, older Millennials, Indies, men, and, right now, probably women.

The gullibles will believe anything the media tells them because they want to.

They'd love to be the Judas goats this year, but nobody is listening to them.

Trooper York said...

Sure bags whatever you say.

Your position is clear. You have made it clear throughout this process.

Thanks for that.

bagoh20 said...

"Your position is clear. You have made it clear throughout this process."

I sure have. Beat Hillary, period. Is there something else I should care more about right now?

ndspinelli said...

If Trump loses, it will be all April's fault. She is almost single handedly bringing the Trump campaign down. Bags will get an assist. Bastards!!

chickelit said...

Another point to remember is that undecideds break against the incumbent (incompetent, if you prefer), which is most certainly Frumpty.

Let's be completely clear. Hillary is running as an incumbent. She has always said so. If any of her ideas or policies deviate from Obama's, she certainly hasn't said much about it.* So this election is most certainly a referendum on Obama. Please say that to any Hillary supporter you might meet: "Do you really want a 3rd Obama term?"

edutcher said...

So will nd.

rcommal said...

t was like she was saying "blah, blah, blah, which she was.

Oh, Lord, yes, Bagoh, yes. Puts me in mind of that incredibly, teeth-itchingly annoying Liberty Mutual commercial for car insurance, which both my husband and I have booed, every time, ever since the first time we saw it and, unfortunately, weren't able to fast-forward through when it appeared in something not prerecorded. I'm assuming that you've seen it? The one with the gal who says, "...blah, blah, blah..." and it's not even just the "blah, blah, blah" part of it that's most annoying about the propaganda?

rcommal said...

...The party fell apart because of the internal tension over the imposition of de facto open borders policy ...

Well, I would argue that this internal tension started 30ish years ago. I objected to the notion of open borders, then and there. I objected to the original 'forgiveness first, border-security policy second, trust me' back then. In no small part did that lead to my voting record thereafter, by the way, for the record.

rcommal said...

(Yell at me if you want, all that you want, but in fact I was right about that, all those years ago. I called it then and there, back then. I did.)

rcommal said...

Likewise, also just for the record, I saw the H1B canard--especially in terms of tech & etc. fields, most particularly in terms of large corps--way back in the late-midish-'90s for what it was: that is, what it was going to end up doing, who was doing it, and why.

---

Of course, I am speaking about things that I knew, said, did years before I was on the Internet. So I have no way to prove those things. (Can't link a video! Can't link an audio! Can't link ... whatever!)

That said, at least one or two or so of you, here even now, know for a fact at least that I referenced H1Bs quite a while before they later, briefly, became a hot topic (notice, by the way, that they're not at present). No calling out names will I do, and nor do I expect others to out themselves. That said, I do hope that at least some will keep in mind that, in fact, I am not entirely stupid, uninformed, low-informational, and, above all, without a certain prescience based on experience.

rcommal said...

FWIW.