"Dance" is a euphemism? Is that the answer to the question I posed earlier?
Not sure what the question was exactly, on either thread (my bad)...just that for me "Rock and Roll" of the only variety I willingly listen to is eminently danceable. I've not seen it engender single dancing alone when partners are available. Back in the 50's girls frequently danced alone, more or less, even to "Great Balls of Fire" ... until guys got over their anal retentive macho act and joined in. Being able to dance was a good thing for a guy, just like taking typing class(which I did twice, room full of girls...what's to complain?)...dance was and is where the girls are. I don't see how that can be a euphemism. Dance is expression usually driven by music. To me dance expresses joy, a feature we are in dire need of today.
I don't consider most Punk or the latest heavy metal "Rock" ...and in that I spend little time listening, I can understand how those forms made couple dancing unusual...mosh pit maybe, and that's not couples per se, but not the rock or boogie music I appreciate.
Chickelit....this article in Forbes may answer the question. The advent of electronic "sideman" devices is abhorrent to me and I'll seldom listen to anything that features it prominently...such as way to much EDM (Electronic Dance Music) does.
Acoustic drums generate more than sound, they impact your feelings, you actually feel them physically ...they cannot be avoided. One listen to Gene Krupa play8ing in Sing Sing Sing and you almost forget everything else...Harry James was there, so was Bennie Goodman and other prominent swing jazz men...but the sound you recall is Krupa's.
Ask just about anyone, of any age, who has heard the 1937 and 1938 versions of Sing Sing Sing, what they remember about it.
It will be Gene Krupa and his solo. Any jazz fan will recall multiple performances by Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers...a mesmerizing drum behind everything else.
Digital Sideman sound is like comparing a Yamaha electronic keyboard to a concert grand Steinway....sit near one to listen to Chopin or Beethoven and the physical sensation is unmistakable from the Stienway ... while the digital keyboard is mere noise.
Think upon this, mein meister pollo, in Strauss' An der schönen blauen Donau there is a dramatic pause, sometimes exaggerated, sometime more subtle, at the beginning of several of the sections.
Got that in mind? Just a bit of a pause that creates tension in the flow of the music. Makes the listener wonder if the conductor is more of a III/V kind of thing.
Well, I have heard, that especially in the recordings made at Motown in its prime, the bass drum employs a similar hesitation - it's closer to a grace note length pause than a dotted anything.
That is something a listener will most likely feel rather than outright hear. It is related to a swing beat, which, if you follow music back to Congo Square in New Orleans, came straight from African drumming.
In my studies of African drumming (and I am no more than a rank novice in that field) there are songs that are very much on the beat, and others that swing. Depends on what the song was for and where it came from.
Wow, somehow I've missed the Surf's Up piece I will save it I assure you, thanks. The use of kettle drums, with a similar beat in coordination with all the other drum tools is grand, and yes, using everything in the kit all together was a Gene Krupa trait....I think he even used both feet on the base pedals.
My knowledge of drum technique is very limited ( I know a bit, like there are different ways drummers hold the sticks, use their feet, etc., but I don't know what they are per se)...I am almost solely captured by the sensation I get when I hear it done well...similar to how I react to a concert grand piano if relatively close to it. I swear I can physically feel it. I want to find a version of Surf's Up I can run through my fine Pre-Amp and Amplifier to shake the windows a bit....they're good enough for you to "feel" the rhythm in your bones. Strangely, when I play Gene Krupa or Art Blakey at high volume my dogs do not flee the room. Something in the primitive sound appeals to them.
19 comments:
The Who produced the beat for dancing...if you chose to dance with a partner, you did.
Aridog said...
The Who produced the beat for dancing...if you chose to dance with a partner, you did.
"Dance" is a euphemism? Is that the answer to the question I posed earlier?
The cosmic dance.
I'm still in NJ.
Travel plans have hit a snag.
Will keep you all posted.
Little known band, huh?
Interesting video. How did they keep the black guys from stealing their women?
Great vid. I'm glad that place and that time were captured.
Chickelit asked...
"Dance" is a euphemism? Is that the answer to the question I posed earlier?
Not sure what the question was exactly, on either thread (my bad)...just that for me "Rock and Roll" of the only variety I willingly listen to is eminently danceable. I've not seen it engender single dancing alone when partners are available. Back in the 50's girls frequently danced alone, more or less, even to "Great Balls of Fire" ... until guys got over their anal retentive macho act and joined in. Being able to dance was a good thing for a guy, just like taking typing class(which I did twice, room full of girls...what's to complain?)...dance was and is where the girls are. I don't see how that can be a euphemism. Dance is expression usually driven by music. To me dance expresses joy, a feature we are in dire need of today.
I don't consider most Punk or the latest heavy metal "Rock" ...and in that I spend little time listening, I can understand how those forms made couple dancing unusual...mosh pit maybe, and that's not couples per se, but not the rock or boogie music I appreciate.
What have I missed? Any slight was unintentional.
I believe that nowadays young people relieve their sexual tensions by fucking rather than by dancing.
Yes, William, but what about 1964?
@Aridog: Your comments are wonderful. I'm just cranky that no one has helped out on the musical question: What was it about the drumming that changed?
Don't look at me, I don't even know what a back beat is.
Chickelit....this article in Forbes may answer the question. The advent of electronic "sideman" devices is abhorrent to me and I'll seldom listen to anything that features it prominently...such as way to much EDM (Electronic Dance Music) does.
Acoustic drums generate more than sound, they impact your feelings, you actually feel them physically ...they cannot be avoided. One listen to Gene Krupa play8ing in Sing Sing Sing and you almost forget everything else...Harry James was there, so was Bennie Goodman and other prominent swing jazz men...but the sound you recall is Krupa's.
Ask just about anyone, of any age, who has heard the 1937 and 1938 versions of Sing Sing Sing, what they remember about it.
It will be Gene Krupa and his solo. Any jazz fan will recall multiple performances by Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers...a mesmerizing drum behind everything else.
Digital Sideman sound is like comparing a Yamaha electronic keyboard to a concert grand Steinway....sit near one to listen to Chopin or Beethoven and the physical sensation is unmistakable from the Stienway ... while the digital keyboard is mere noise.
Everyone's Mileage may vary....
Think upon this, mein meister pollo, in Strauss' An der schönen blauen Donau there is a dramatic pause, sometimes exaggerated, sometime more subtle, at the beginning of several of the sections.
Got that in mind? Just a bit of a pause that creates tension in the flow of the music. Makes the listener wonder if the conductor is more of a III/V kind of thing.
Well, I have heard, that especially in the recordings made at Motown in its prime, the bass drum employs a similar hesitation - it's closer to a grace note length pause than a dotted anything.
That is something a listener will most likely feel rather than outright hear. It is related to a swing beat, which, if you follow music back to Congo Square in New Orleans, came straight from African drumming.
In my studies of African drumming (and I am no more than a rank novice in that field) there are songs that are very much on the beat, and others that swing. Depends on what the song was for and where it came from.
Is any of this helpful?
Okay, forget all that, stick with syncopation.
Interesting, but alas I am not musical so I can't envision what you mean. Do you know of a Motown song that demonstrates this?
Yes.
@Aridog: Gene Krupa. I'm aware of his great influence. See for example here.
April Apple posted a link to a song in the next KLEM FM post. Her Puppini Sisters link has an example of what I'm talking about.
Chickelit ....
Wow, somehow I've missed the Surf's Up piece I will save it I assure you, thanks. The use of kettle drums, with a similar beat in coordination with all the other drum tools is grand, and yes, using everything in the kit all together was a Gene Krupa trait....I think he even used both feet on the base pedals.
My knowledge of drum technique is very limited ( I know a bit, like there are different ways drummers hold the sticks, use their feet, etc., but I don't know what they are per se)...I am almost solely captured by the sensation I get when I hear it done well...similar to how I react to a concert grand piano if relatively close to it. I swear I can physically feel it. I want to find a version of Surf's Up I can run through my fine Pre-Amp and Amplifier to shake the windows a bit....they're good enough for you to "feel" the rhythm in your bones. Strangely, when I play Gene Krupa or Art Blakey at high volume my dogs do not flee the room. Something in the primitive sound appeals to them.
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