Wednesday, June 18, 2014

The Cheney's finger Obama via the Wall Street Journal

"On a trip to the Middle East this spring, we heard a constant refrain in capitals from the Persian Gulf to Israel, "Can you please explain what your president is doing?" "Why is he walking away?" "Why is he so blithely sacrificing the hard fought gains you secured in Iraq?" "Why is he abandoning your friends?" "Why is he doing deals with your enemies?"
In one Arab capital, a senior official pulled out a map of Syria and Iraq. Drawing an arc with his finger from Raqqa province in northern Syria to Anbar province in western Iraq, he said, "They will control this territory. Al Qaeda is building safe havens and training camps here. Don't the Americans care?" (link to the rest of the piece)
Don't the Americans care?
 
I'm not particularly animated by that question. My uncommitted guess is, now that I'm 'blogging it' (Chick's fault) is that, it depends on who you ask. Obama was elected on the belief that he would care more than Bush. And re-elected on the belief that he would care more than Romney.

Maybe this is a good time to ask you, what do you care about? What's on your mind?
Lend us your fingers and thumbs.

Source  

41 comments:

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

The Republican philosophy at home is personal responsibility. Why not apply this to the rest of the world?

KCFleming said...

Clearly the world needs Hillary! to reset policy.

KCFleming said...

Personal responsibility ≠ Laissez les bons temps rouler

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Clearly the world needs Hillary! to reset policy.

She needs to explain the mess Kerry has inherited.

KCFleming said...

Liberals only want to become isolationists when their plans fuck up.

Two days later they want their fingers in some other nation's pie.
It's just a pose.

And a Tu quoque logical fallacy.

KCFleming said...

Agree.
Turns out ISIS will be worse than Saddam.

Who knew?

Unknown said...

The ISIS radicals are saying they are on their way to America.


All this trashing of GWB. He understood the thread of Islamic Terror. Oh well. We will all understand soon enough.

KCFleming said...

Saddam was thick enough with the terrorists, I recall.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Mars needs women and Japan needs oil.

Sydney said...

Don't the Americans care?
No, most don't. There is a strong isolationist streak in this country which the Democrats worked to their advantage to get Obama elected.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

I don't care about Iraq...

Once having been convinced by this very same bunch in charge now, that I shouldn't care... now what do they suggest we do?

They are in charge to keep us safe, first and foremost.

Do they take a chance ISIS are not going to be a threat to us or do they go the Neocon route?

If they aren't stopped now they only may get stronger.

We get attacked again and the dems may be finished politically for a long time.

deborah said...

I think maybe it would be good to let these Sunnis just have that territory. They are minorities in Iraq and Syria. Maybe they'll simmer down and fight amongst themselves for power.

(Nice to see here you, Tank.)

Shouting Thomas said...

When you don't know what the hell to do, sometimes its best to do nothing.

Do we know what the hell to do with Iraq?

KCFleming said...

"Do we know what the hell to do with Iraq?"

Hand it over to the IRS.

We'll never see it again.

chickelit said...

To the isolationists: Iraq's oil under Caliphate control means more well-oiled and well-funded regional mischief. This has a way of spilling into our affairs and will not go away anytime soon.

edutcher said...

A good piece by Cheney.

the Lefties, as I said elsewhere, I believe, must be going nuts watching the people who got it right asked how to fix the current mess.

Witness The Troll Who Must Not Be Mocked:

The Republican philosophy at home is personal responsibility. Why not apply this to the rest of the world?

Because they come over here and kill us?

Tank said...

I don't care about Iraq, but if we know where the terrorists are, or are training, we should bomb the hell out of them.

We've done the Billy Mitchell thing several times.

Never seems to stick without boots on the ground.

sydney said...

Don't the Americans care?

No, most don't. There is a strong isolationist streak in this country which the Democrats worked to their advantage to get Obama elected.


No, there is a strong Duh streak, more interested in the Kardashians than Karbala.

Pearl Harbor was a shock to their grandparents, as well.

The Demos have been playing it for 80 years.

edutcher said...

A piece on Drudge (the photo of Darth and Choom is priceless) puts it all in perspective.

The crazies have seized their first oil refinery. Oil markets rejoice.

PS and OT, but it may count as AOE:

Which way the wind blows. The Hildabeast wants the Children's Crusaders deported.

bagoh20 said...

The Germans and Japanese were much more formidable and dangerous once, and yet now they are peaceful prosperous allies. Our values, rules, and methods have changed and so unfortunately we will have different outcomes, yet the lesson is never learned. We have progressed past the idea of success as an objective to something like the dysfunction of a participation trophy.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It is just too tiring to attempt to care about the world. Our so called leaders are out of control, idiots and either on accident or on purpose leading us into a world wide conflagration. I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the population is too stupid for me to care about what happens to them.

I care about the immediate things that I can do to make my life better. Things that we can control. I care about living my life in peace and what ever level of security that we can provide for ourselves, our family, our friends and of course my cats :-)

To try to control or care about the "big" things over which we have no effect..... will drive us crazy.

Chip S. said...

I forget, did Obama follow Cheney's advice last year about arming the Syrian rebels?

Icepick said...

Chip S, it depends on your sources

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

bagoh20 said...
The Germans and Japanese ...


Apples and oranges comparison. Germany's technology was second only to the US, it was a very functional society, albeit with some issues. Much the same was true of Japan. If you take oil revenues out of the mix the GDP of most of the ME countries is less than many African countries.

Chip S. said...

At least there's one bright spot in all this--Turkey is suddenly willing to accept an independent Kurdistan.

Presumably they decided that was a lot better than the likely alternatives.

Unknown said...
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Rabel said...

"Germany's technology was second only to the US, it was a very functional society, albeit with some issues."

Good one ARM.

Some issues like the death of 8% of their population, the loss of one third of their country to Soviet control, massive famine in the eastern part of the remaining territory, the near total destruction of their industrial base and physical infrastructure, total destruction of their financial system, removal of their remaining top scientists to the US and USSR, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Rabel said...
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Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Rabel said...
Good one ARM.


Think you missed the point on this one.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Lydia said...
For those who want to keep away and just stay home, what to do about this, from the Cheneys' article:


If the lead up to the Iraq war taught us anything it is that nothing Cheney says should be taken a face value.

No information is given about whether most or even all are only involved in local civil wars.

I'm Full of Soup said...

I voted for Geo W Bush twice but Dick Cheney should not be bragging about his foreign policy record. It was not a successful one.

We need a clean slate in the Imperial City and by that I mean no more Bushes, Clintons, Cheneys, Kerrys, Obamas etc. Ban every last one of those failed mofos.

Lydia said...

ARM: If the lead up to the Iraq war taught us anything it is that nothing Cheney says should be taken a face value. No information is given about whether most or even all are only involved in local civil wars.

Those are Salafist jihadists Cheney and the Rand study are talking about. That kind doesn't concern itself simply with local stuff. They're out to cleanse the world of Western influence, and their number-one enemy is the U.S.

Here's a summary of the Rand study.

edutcher said...

In several senses, comparing Germany and Japan is hardly apples and oranges.

First, it was truly a 1000 year Reich - exactly what Hitler wanted Germany to become - xenophobic, homogeneous, acquisitive, and hideously ethnocentric.

Also, like Germany, it was the 700 lb gorilla on the block, light years ahead of its neighbors in industrial and technological achievement.

More to the point, its conquests had the same impetus as Germany's - lebensraum (the coiner of the term, Karl Haushofer, was an ardent admirer of Japan and cultivated the Axis alliance (although, if he'd had his way, the third member would have been Russia, not Italy)), resources, and international prestige.

Rabel said...

"Think you missed the point on this one."

Don't think so. You may have intended a point that differed from the one you made but it didn't come through.

rcocean said...

Lot of people here living in the past. "Isolationist" "Hitler" - yes, it was all just happened yesterday didn't it?

Except it didn't. It Hitler died almost 70 years ago.

We have bases all over the world. America rules the waves, we have the worlds no. 1 air force, and more Nuclear weapons than anyone.

So no, I don't care about Iraq, unless it has a significant, and direct impact on the USA. We don't have to get involved in EVERY internal conflict in EVERY country all over the world.

rcocean said...
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rcocean said...

What I find absurd, is that -if tomorrow - all the crazy Muslim fanatics that took over Mosul, decided to come to the USA, legally or illegally, Johnny McCain and all the world-savers would be in favor of it.

Why don't we just invite them all to come to the USA and pick lettuce for $50/hour?

edutcher said...

rcocean said...

So no, I don't care about Iraq, unless it has a significant, and direct impact on the USA. We don't have to get involved in EVERY internal conflict in EVERY country all over the world.

No, we don't.

But when somebody starts flying jetliners into skyscrapers, it might be a good idea to take notice.

Fr Martin Fox said...

Sydney said Americans mostly don't care, because of isolationism (did I get that right?). I think that overstates it. We Americans cared, for a long time, about the Cold War. Remember, there was a sustained political effort, post Vietnam, to convince the American people not to care. It failed. The Cold War was sustained and won because the American people were convinced it mattered.

I think President Bush, who is blamed for everything, does deserve blame for not making the case that this conflict required a similar long-term commitment.

Mr. Obama deserves his share of blame for many things, but Bush is not blameless.

Fr Martin Fox said...

Post 9/11, President Bush could have asked for almost anything and got it. What stands out is he did not ask us for any sacrifice. So...how convincing was his claim that this would be a long war?

rcocean said...

"But when somebody starts flying jetliners into skyscrapers, it might be a good idea to take notice."

If you're talking about 911, most of them were Saudis (our gallant Allies) who were here on Visa's and Green cards.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

rcocean said...
most of them were Saudis



Iraq doesn't make it into the top five countries with some responsibility for 911. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were all more rational choices.

Methadras said...

Nothing short of destroying Islam will take care of this problem, but no one in the world has balls to do it. I do and if I had the power I would.