And, I stand by what I said. I guarantee you that I get out and see and play with more black women singers than you.
This woman's act is just about dead.
Every black woman I hear or see, even if she is doing jazz standards, is doing the Go GRRL! version, cranking her voice up to the volume and stridency of an air raid siren and engaging in vocal gymnastics.
If you know of a contemporary black woman singer who is still doing the standards in the fashion of the greats of the 40s and 50s, I'd appreciate it if you would tell me where I can find her, because I'd like to work with her.
IIRC, this is only my second fashion post, but with the first one, I really liked the look, but upon closer examination there was the exposed underwear issue.
Anyway, I think this outfit is perfect on this gal. Some fashion shots, like this one, cause me a pang of...I don't know, je n'est ce quoi?
The stripes don't match up. It looks like the seamstress didn't bother to be very detailed. It makes me dizzy to look at it.
ST is entitled to his opinion about the current state of Black pop music. It isn't racist to note the degradation of music in general. Ella Fitzgerald or Beyonce Which one do you want as a roll model for your daughters?
Every black woman I hear or see, even if she is doing jazz standards, is doing the Go GRRL! version, cranking her voice up to the volume and stridency of an air raid siren and engaging in vocal gymnastics.
It isn't just black women who do this butchering of songs with unnecessary vocal gymnastics that detract from the mood and meaning of the lyrics. It seems to be pretty much all the rage now.
One prime example of this was Whitney Houston's rendition of "I will always love you". Sure...she can sing and really belt it out. Does double back flips with a twist in the music....but really destroys much of the meaning of the song as it was written by Dolly Parton. A song full of pathos, love and regret and not a screaming song that is really (in Houston's case) just a way to show off her vocal skills (which were considerable but distracting)
Agree with DBQ. The rare times I've listened to American Idol, whether male, female, black, white, the trend emphasis seems lung power rather than nuance.
lol DBQ, I was so busy taking in the whole, I didn't notice matching. But if it were possible to match the sleeves to the yoke, I think it would take away from the look...maybe look line-backerish. I think the mismatching of the skirt side seams is intentional, because then the eye would be drawn to 'arrows.' Anyway, here's some dramamine :)
For me you couldn't have chosen a worse song as I love both versions. In my opinion Whitney doesn't over do the vocal changes, it's just another interpretation of the song. Here's her version for those not familiar:
We often reverse the print when we make a dress. Fabric has stretch but sometimes the stretch goes the wrong way. If it goes north/south it is no good as people don't get taller but they might get wider. So we are always doing vertical stripes. Horizontal stripes can be problematic.
To give you some examples of contemporary black woman who do not screech like banshees I would recommend Cassandra Wilson and Dianne Reeves just to name two. Of course the incomparable Nancy Wilson is still singing but she is of a different generation.
If you want to get some great stuff I would get some of her stuff. In particular I recommend the album she did with Cannonball Addderly. Here is Nancy singing on that album a tune that epitomizes Shouting Thomas's commenting "Happy Talk."
Now don't get me wrong. I am sure that Shouting Thomas knows a hell of a lot more about music than I do and I would not presume to claim that my knowledge holds a candle to his.
But sometimes we can overstate stuff. I mean I do that all the time. So no harm no foul.
I think we should all defer to the expertise that certain commenters have when they talk about fields that they know more than the average Bears. For instance Little Debbie on Snack Cakes, Chickie about chemistry, Michael Haz on motorcycles and male pattern baldness, Shouting Thomas on cover bands and getting sex from minorities for a green card and Titus talking about sodomy. I stake a claim on plus sized woman's clothing, running a small business and large breasted starlets of the 1960's.
lol Troop. Thanks for the links, have only listened to the Tupelo Honey so far, as it's a fave of mine also. Lovely voice.
It's lucky the stretch makes the stripes go vertical, as some of us don't look as well in horizontal. An old, old rule :)
"I get what Shouting Thomas is saying but he is perhaps not as well versed in contemporary music as he might assert in one of his old white guy rants."
Deborah read up on the Rape of Nanking. Specifically the fine book by Iris Chang. It will give you an idea of what happened to China at the hands of the Nipponese prior to World War 2.
You'll be surprised to know that I was very surprised by the woman. The music, I don't much care for. It's industrial rock and that wears me out pretty fast.
The lyrics are a bitter comment on what it's like to grow up female in the age of porn.
All I hear now from the young black women is strident, crude shit.
What I hear sounds like someone telling about their experience. Maybe the "all" indicates a limited range of exposure or a possible generalization on "Shout's" part, but I don't hear "racist garbage".
When a person describes what they see, hear, smell, taste, or touch, they are talking about themselves and their personal experience. Questioning what the "all" signifies would be the step that needs to happen before a conclusion of anywhere close to racism can be determined. At worst, it indicates limited exposure or a generalization involving a form of prejudice regarding current experience, not necessarily the belief that one race is superior to another.
(She is also going to star in the remake of "True Grit" with the fat black guy from "Hot Tub Time Machine" and Will Smith's kid. It is part of the new ongoing series of inappropriate remakes of classic movies with black casts that fail because they suck but that they blame on racism because....Obama!)
Thanks, Shout, you had mentioned that before. Do you have a recording you could post? Can't say I cared for the Gaga original, and wondered what your cover sounds like.
This is an instrumental version of Wichita Lineman. I vaguely know one of the guys who did this. What impresses me about the music business is how many good musicians there are who struggle to make a living.
MamaM said... What impresses you about that , ARM?
The guitar player in that video is really very good, much better than most name guitarists, but I doubt he ever makes much more than minimum wage from playing music. This particular piece doesn't showcase his strengths, he is a very skilled jazz player as well as being able to play rock/pop. If you play an instrument at all you quickly realize two things, musical talent is pretty rare and it requires a lot of discipline to foster. It must be very frustrating for these very disciplined guys possessed of a relatively rare skill to be unable to make a steady living.
An even more striking example is Kurt Rosenwinkel, who is widely considered the best jazz guitarist of his generation. He had to go to Germany and take an academic position in order to make a living. Again this piece doesn't fully showcase his abilities either but you get the idea.
Several years ago, I was all set to read The Rape of Nanking, but then the author, Iris Chang, killed herself. There was speculation that at least part of what drove her over the edge was researching and writing that book. You know, the Nietzsche thing where you stare too long into the abyss and then it stares back at you. So, wimp that I am, I figured why take the chance, right?
Skylark was written by Hoagy Carmichael. Hoagy was a Repuublic lawyer from Indiana. He was, I think, the first cool piano player. So, you see, such things are possible: Republican lawyer and cool piano player, matter and anti matter........The singer that composers like Kern and Berlin liked the best was Fred Astaire. He had a thin voice, but he never tried to upstage the melody and he enunciated the lyrics perfectly.......I never tried to keep up with modern music. At a certain age it's easier to go back in time rather than keep up. Get off the treadmill and head for the steam room. I like Ethel Waters. She has a warm, reassuring voice. I have some albums that Louis Armstrong did with Ella, but, to my mind,Ethel Waters had the voice that most approximated his cornet sun bursts.
56 comments:
Hard to believe that black women used to make that kind of music, isn't it?
Love. Tenderness. Romance.
All I hear now from the young black women is strident, crude shit.
I guess that's progress.
@Deborah: The stripes go the wrong way I think.
Shout, these days black women sing in a variety of styles. Please keep your racist garbage out of my threads.
Chick, are you funnin' me?
Chick, are you funnin' me?
Deborah, your fashion posts are usually to point out that something's wrong, IIRC. The woman looks long and leggy. The stripes should be horizontal.
That was a fascinating response, deborah.
When is this notion that we are all supposed to be deputized to denounce every iota of presumed racism doing to die?
This stupid shit has been going on for 50 years.
The end of this nonsense can't come soon enough.
And, I stand by what I said. I guarantee you that I get out and see and play with more black women singers than you.
This woman's act is just about dead.
Every black woman I hear or see, even if she is doing jazz standards, is doing the Go GRRL! version, cranking her voice up to the volume and stridency of an air raid siren and engaging in vocal gymnastics.
If you know of a contemporary black woman singer who is still doing the standards in the fashion of the greats of the 40s and 50s, I'd appreciate it if you would tell me where I can find her, because I'd like to work with her.
IIRC, this is only my second fashion post, but with the first one, I really liked the look, but upon closer examination there was the exposed underwear issue.
Anyway, I think this outfit is perfect on this gal. Some fashion shots, like this one, cause me a pang of...I don't know, je n'est ce quoi?
I still cannot imagine why you think it's important enough to say anything about, least of all to issue the standard denunciation.
It's kinda mind boggling.
Why does it make any difference to you?
We've been so heavily indoctrinated that it is every person's responsibility to denounced all that is discriminatory.
What a crock of shit.
People are sinful. In every other area of life we know that it is just bad manners to denounce people for what we think are their sins.
This denunciation thing needs to die.
The stripes don't match up. It looks like the seamstress didn't bother to be very detailed. It makes me dizzy to look at it.
ST is entitled to his opinion about the current state of Black pop music. It isn't racist to note the degradation of music in general. Ella Fitzgerald or Beyonce Which one do you want as a roll model for your daughters?
Every black woman I hear or see, even if she is doing jazz standards, is doing the Go GRRL! version, cranking her voice up to the volume and stridency of an air raid siren and engaging in vocal gymnastics.
It isn't just black women who do this butchering of songs with unnecessary vocal gymnastics that detract from the mood and meaning of the lyrics. It seems to be pretty much all the rage now.
One prime example of this was Whitney Houston's rendition of "I will always love you". Sure...she can sing and really belt it out. Does double back flips with a twist in the music....but really destroys much of the meaning of the song as it was written by Dolly Parton. A song full of pathos, love and regret and not a screaming song that is really (in Houston's case) just a way to show off her vocal skills (which were considerable but distracting)
Agree with DBQ. The rare times I've listened to American Idol, whether male, female, black, white, the trend emphasis seems lung power rather than nuance.
Would a jazz singer make it on AI?
LOL Role model. Not ROLL model.
/facepalm
lol DBQ, I was so busy taking in the whole, I didn't notice matching. But if it were possible to match the sleeves to the yoke, I think it would take away from the look...maybe look line-backerish. I think the mismatching of the skirt side seams is intentional, because then the eye would be drawn to 'arrows.' Anyway, here's some dramamine :)
For me you couldn't have chosen a worse song as I love both versions. In my opinion Whitney doesn't over do the vocal changes, it's just another interpretation of the song. Here's her version for those not familiar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JWTaaS7LdU
Yes some, black and white, as you note, go too far. And I often hold my breath at the end of the Star Spangled Banner at sports events.
As far as Ella and Beyonce, let's meet in the middle. Here's a gal I think even Shout will approve of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtMUIwOE2ss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urdlvw0SSEc
Lemondog, I think that's just what AI is about. Give it time, and I'm sure there'll be an AI show dedicated to jazz singing.
We often reverse the print when we make a dress. Fabric has stretch but sometimes the stretch goes the wrong way. If it goes north/south it is no good as people don't get taller but they might get wider. So we are always doing vertical stripes. Horizontal stripes can be problematic.
To give you some examples of contemporary black woman who do not screech like banshees I would recommend Cassandra Wilson and Dianne Reeves just to name two. Of course the incomparable Nancy Wilson is still singing but she is of a different generation.
I get what Shouting Thomas is saying but he is perhaps not as well versed in contemporary music as he might assert in one of his old white guy rants.
Hey I get it. I specialize in old white guy rants.
When you look at pieces of shit like Nicki Minaj he is right on the money.
Cassandra Wilson sings "Love is Blindness"and one of my personal favorites "Tupelo Honey."
Some more contemporary tunes with the incomparable Dianne Reeves.
(First tune from the Rolling Stones)
Then one and only Nancy Wilson who speaks to what Shouting is talking about.
If you want to get some great stuff I would get some of her stuff. In particular I recommend the album she did with Cannonball Addderly. Here is Nancy singing on that album a tune that epitomizes Shouting Thomas's commenting "Happy Talk."
Very nice....
Cassandra Wilson "Red Guitar"
...but not AI material. Too subtle.
Now don't get me wrong. I am sure that Shouting Thomas knows a hell of a lot more about music than I do and I would not presume to claim that my knowledge holds a candle to his.
But sometimes we can overstate stuff. I mean I do that all the time. So no harm no foul.
I think we should all defer to the expertise that certain commenters have when they talk about fields that they know more than the average Bears. For instance Little Debbie on Snack Cakes, Chickie about chemistry, Michael Haz on motorcycles and male pattern baldness, Shouting Thomas on cover bands and getting sex from minorities for a green card and Titus talking about sodomy. I stake a claim on plus sized woman's clothing, running a small business and large breasted starlets of the 1960's.
Carry on.
lol Troop. Thanks for the links, have only listened to the Tupelo Honey so far, as it's a fave of mine also. Lovely voice.
It's lucky the stretch makes the stripes go vertical, as some of us don't look as well in horizontal. An old, old rule :)
"I get what Shouting Thomas is saying but he is perhaps not as well versed in contemporary music as he might assert in one of his old white guy rants."
Yeah, I know. What are ya gonna do?
Do what you did. Push back.
We are nothing if not well rounded......and that is not a fat joke.
"When is this notion that we are all supposed to be deputized to denounce every iota of presumed racism doing to die?'
It is odd isn't it? I guess a lot of White people get a big kick out of it for some reason.
Calling someone a racist = feelgood brownie points.
Trooper.
rc, is that satire? You recently accused the US of not caring about Japanese atrocities against yellow people in China.
Well he is right about the US not worrying about what Japan was doing in China pre WW2. Didn't you ever see "The Sand Pebbles?"
Plus nobody ever said jack shit about the way the Cartwrights used to smack around Hop Sing on the Ponderosa.
I mean Hossaroni used to pull his pigtail if he didn't get enough flapjacks. Just sayn'
He was speaking of our feelings now looking into the past. I told him it was not a problem of feeling, but horrible education.
The Sand Pebble was pre-WW II? I watched it when I was a teen...didn't resonate with me. I'd probably get it more now.
I mean about pre-WW II.
Don't get me started on Kung Fu.
Hey, I'm, playing with a kid band now.
Great young female singer.
So, I'm getting over my geezerdom. You guys are gonna be amazed.
I'm even playing some songs written after 2001!
@Troop
... Shouting Thomas on cover bands and getting sex from minorities for a green card ...
I can help you to fill in the blanks here.
Trooper York said...
Cassandra Wilson sings "Love is Blindness"and one of my personal favorites "Tupelo Honey."
Wilson's Tupelo Honey also has one of the greatest violin solos every recorded in pop music. Just a perfect piece of adult orientated pop.
Deborah read up on the Rape of Nanking. Specifically the fine book by Iris Chang. It will give you an idea of what happened to China at the hands of the Nipponese prior to World War 2.
I agree ARM. I discovered Cassandra Wilson through someone I knew at Blue Note Records who would give me CD's of the new emerging jazz vocalists.
I particularly enjoyed "New Moon Daughter" which has some great tracks on it.
Shout, jut how many bands do you work with? Which post 2011 songs?
Trooper, I'll bookmark it. I've already read some, probably in wiki.
And, thanks for telling me about some young black women who maintain the tradition.
I'll listen to them and see if I can connect.
As I said, I'd love to work with a woman who's really got it going in the torch song standards things.
I'm an incredible accompanist and harmony singer for that act. Did it with my wife for 16 years.
@deborah
I work with every band that will have me, so long as they are competent and nice people.
I'm a complete music whore.
Current count is about 3 on a regular basis.
Here you go. I played a Lady Gaga tune with a band five or six weeks ago.
Poker Face.
You'll be surprised to know that I was very surprised by the woman. The music, I don't much care for. It's industrial rock and that wears me out pretty fast.
The lyrics are a bitter comment on what it's like to grow up female in the age of porn.
And, she's a master of the use of media.
You should browse the Blue Note catalog for some decent jazz singers and up and coming acts.
All I hear now from the young black women is strident, crude shit.
What I hear sounds like someone telling about their experience. Maybe the "all" indicates a limited range of exposure or a possible generalization on "Shout's" part, but I don't hear "racist garbage".
When a person describes what they see, hear, smell, taste, or touch, they are talking about themselves and their personal experience. Questioning what the "all" signifies would be the step that needs to happen before a conclusion of anywhere close to racism can be determined. At worst, it indicates limited exposure or a generalization involving a form of prejudice regarding current experience, not necessarily the belief that one race is superior to another.
Wichita Lineman by Cassandra Wilson.
(She is also going to star in the remake of "True Grit" with the fat black guy from "Hot Tub Time Machine" and Will Smith's kid. It is part of the new ongoing series of inappropriate remakes of classic movies with black casts that fail because they suck but that they blame on racism because....Obama!)
Of course here is the original with an old white guy.
Thanks, Shout, you had mentioned that before. Do you have a recording you could post? Can't say I cared for the Gaga original, and wondered what your cover sounds like.
Trooper, I thought you were going to post a True Grit clip. Here's one of my faves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlB7bz0TrZM
This is an instrumental version of Wichita Lineman. I vaguely know one of the guys who did this. What impresses me about the music business is how many good musicians there are who struggle to make a living.
What impresses me about the music business is how many good musicians there are who struggle to make a living.
What impresses you about that , ARM?
MamaM said...
What impresses you about that , ARM?
The guitar player in that video is really very good, much better than most name guitarists, but I doubt he ever makes much more than minimum wage from playing music. This particular piece doesn't showcase his strengths, he is a very skilled jazz player as well as being able to play rock/pop. If you play an instrument at all you quickly realize two things, musical talent is pretty rare and it requires a lot of discipline to foster. It must be very frustrating for these very disciplined guys possessed of a relatively rare skill to be unable to make a steady living.
An even more striking example is Kurt Rosenwinkel, who is widely considered the best jazz guitarist of his generation. He had to go to Germany and take an academic position in order to make a living. Again this piece doesn't fully showcase his abilities either but you get the idea.
Several years ago, I was all set to read The Rape of Nanking, but then the author, Iris Chang, killed herself. There was speculation that at least part of what drove her over the edge was researching and writing that book. You know, the Nietzsche thing where you stare too long into the abyss and then it stares back at you. So, wimp that I am, I figured why take the chance, right?
It is a very powerful book. It showed the essential decency of FDR. You see he didn't give a shit. An elitist of the first water.
But why mess with the legend.
When the legend becomes fact print the legend.
Skylark was written by Hoagy Carmichael. Hoagy was a Repuublic lawyer from Indiana. He was, I think, the first cool piano player. So, you see, such things are possible: Republican lawyer and cool piano player, matter and anti matter........The singer that composers like Kern and Berlin liked the best was Fred Astaire. He had a thin voice, but he never tried to upstage the melody and he enunciated the lyrics perfectly.......I never tried to keep up with modern music. At a certain age it's easier to go back in time rather than keep up. Get off the treadmill and head for the steam room. I like Ethel Waters. She has a warm, reassuring voice. I have some albums that Louis Armstrong did with Ella, but, to my mind,Ethel Waters had the voice that most approximated his cornet sun bursts.
"At a certain age it's easier to go back in time rather than keep up."
Rod Stewart has started doing old standards:
That Old Black Magic
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