Wednesday, October 30, 2013

"What did President Obama know and when did he know it?"

Is a trending question being parodied in Twitterverse. My sense is that it is not being asked with the specter of the original history behind that question, the scandal that led to the resignation of president Nixon. But more of an attempt, by way of insinuation, to describe the scenario we are currently in, with an already familiar background to many of us.

Dana Milbank of the Washington Post elaborates...
For a smart man, President Obama professes to know very little about a great number of things going on in his administration.
On Sunday night, the Wall Street Journal reported that he didn’t learn until this summer that the National Security Agency had been bugging the phones of German Chancellor Angela Merkel and other world leaders for nearly five years.
That followed by a few days a claim by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius that Obama didn’t know about problems with the HealthCare.gov Web site before the rest of the world learned of them after the Oct. 1 launch.
It stretches credulity to think that the United States was spying on world leaders without the president’s knowledge, or that he was blissfully unaware of huge technical problems that threatened to undermine his main legislative achievement. But on issues including the IRS targeting flap and the Justice Department’s use of subpoenas against reporters, White House officials have frequently given a variation on this theme.
Question: What did Obama know and when did he know it?
We may never know for sure. We could, however, put together clues from the time when Obama was not yet the President of the United States. Clues that may very well help us transition from insinuation and speculation to... if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Kerry Picket of Breitbart elaborates...
President Barack Obama made it no secret he was a proponent of a single payer health care system in America when he first came on to the national scene. However, he explained to his supporters over the years that a "potential transition" would be necessary to break away from the current system. 
Interestingly, as the implementation of the Obamacare exchanges face problems and millions begin to lose coverage from their private insurers, something President Obama promised would not happen, Democrats and their liberal allies are now beginning to suggest a single payer system as a solution to the rickety exchanges. 

Obama - Remarks to AFL - CIO
"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer health care plan. The United States of America--the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent--14 percent of its gross national product on health care and cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody and that's what Jim is talking about when he says, 'Everybody in. Nobody out.' A single payer health care credit--universal healthcare credit. That's what I'd like to see, but as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House and we've got to take back the Senate and we've got to take back the House."
Obama - Remarks - 8/4/07
"This is a two trillion dollar part of our economy and it is my belief that it's not just politically but economically it is better for us to start getting a system in place--a universal healthcare system signed into law by the end of my first term as president and build off that system to further to make it more rational..."
"By the way, Canada did not start immediately with a single payer system. They had a similar transition step. "
Obama- New Hampshire Public Radio 11/21/07
OBAMA: It's a transitional system building on the existing systems that we have.
HOST: Transitional to what?
OBAMA: Transitional, hopefully, because the system is currently a patchwork of inefficiency that over time I would want to see Medicaid, Medicare, the Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)--all those integrated more effectively.
Obama - Public Remarks 4/3/07
"Let's say that I proposed a plan that moved to a single payer system--Let's say Medicare plus. Essentially, everybody can buy Medicare, for example..."
"Transitioning a system is a very difficult and costly and lengthy enterprise. It's not like you can turn on a switch and you go from one system to another. So it's possible that up front, you wouldn't need not just-- you might need an additional ninety or a hundred billion dollars a year."
Obama - (SEIU Healthcare Forum) - 3/24/07
"But I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out.." 
Obama - Public Remarks - 1/27/05
"There's no denying that part of the solution in the health care arena as we transition and deal with the legacy systems that we've inherited will probably require some additional money."
Video of these remarks at the link.

64 comments:

Shouting Thomas said...

An odd conversation. Hard to see the relevance.

He's black. So, he's untouchable and unaccountable and you're a racist.

The goal was to get the healthcare system within the grasp of the Fed, and with the shredding of the old system, that has been accomplished.

What you gonna do about it?

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Instapundit says it more succinctly.

Here’s the explanation: They couldn’t have passed the bill — which barely passed — without lying. So, they lied. And it worked until after the election.

KCFleming said...

Too late to do anything now, I think, except suffer until the universal payer clusterfuck begins.

By then, it will look like an upgrade. Remember to smile when they gives you dat gubmint cheese.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Pogo said...

Too late to do anything now...

What difference, at this point, does it make?





Ignorance is Bliss said...

Dana Milbank of the Washington Post elaborates...

'For a smart man, President Obama...'


Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.

The Dude said...

Because slavery.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Obama is only responsible for the joy! Never any of the pain. Please worship your king.

Leland said...

I thought Instapundit was wrong in his analysis. It didn't work until after the election; it worked until implementation as was the plan.

Too late to do anything now, I think, except suffer until the universal payer clusterfuck begins.

It's like it was planned or something...

By then, it will look like an upgrade.

Sing it! Sing it loud, because that might just get your family a chance to see the doctor.

Remember to smile

Shouting Thomas said...

Obama has achieved what he set out to achieve, which is to bring the entire healthcare and insurance system under Federal control.

Calling him stupid... well, you might want to look at the results.

I wouldn't go there.

AllenS said...

"What did President Obama know and when did he decide he didn't know it?"

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

For a smart man, President Obama professes to know very little about a great number of things going on in his administration.

For a democrat protection racket press, it's nice of you to finally notice.

KCFleming said...

Not stupid, evil.

Lazy as hell, too, but a mendacious man with bad intent.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Once the government forces price controls on the private insurance market, to pay for all the new mandatory coverage, it will all collapse. The private market will need a bailout, and it will get one. Tax payers to the rescue. A full government take-over of the entire health insurance and health care delivery system is fast approaching. Dreamy single payer will, in actuality, be a nightmare for those who really need life-saving care or treatments.
The good news is that health care will suck for everyone. Get in line, ask permission, all that jazz. Many doctors will flee because it is the antithesis of proper care to have the government as an intermediary.
Shiver to think of this corrupt, inept administration in charge of our health care.

Icepick said...

AllenS for the win.

Trooper York said...

See the liberals sold Nelson Mandela but they delivered Robert Mugabe.

How do we know that Obama will step down when his term is over? He has no problem lying. Violating our constitutional rights by spying and using the IRS against political opponents. Ignoring Congress and the Supreme Court by Presidential Degree when he doesn't agree with a law.

How can we be sure that he will step down if Ted Cruz or Rand Paul or Scott Walker wins the Presidency?

Who will stand against him? The press? The military that has it's fighting generals sacked to be replaced by political generals who kowtow to political correctness?

Who will stand against him?

Trooper York said...

Don't you think people like John McCain will agree that they can't turn the government over to hobbits and right wing crazies.

Don't you think the corrupt insider establishment will want to protect their rice bowl at all costs?

Trooper York said...

Who would stand against him if he decides he can't turn over the government to the "right wing extremist Tea Party Types"?

Hillary Clinton?
John McCain?
Speaker Boner?
Harry Reid?
Chris Matthews?
John "It's a Tax" Roberts?
Ruth Buzzi Ginsberg?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Who will stand against him?

The military would. I doubt any of the top level officers would support him, even the most political would realize that the troops would never go for it.

Trooper York said...

I don't know about that.

Why did they fire the general and admiral in charge of the nuclear arsenal last month?

The stated reason was a sex scandal. Just like Patreaus. Don't you think they could put people in charge who they have something on and who will fall in line?

The Dude said...

The NSA has something on everybody. The left won without firing a shot.

Hope you like your accommodations in the internment camp. The good news is, you won't stay there long.

Trooper York said...

How do we know what the troops would do?

I agree that they are loyal Americans but they obey orders.

When they went to boots and saddles to rescue our Embassy in Benghazi they were told to stand down and they did.

How do we know that they will turn over the government like a banana republic if there is not overwhelming political support?

bagoh20 said...

With the new standard of not requiring any honesty or transparency whatsoever from a President, my parents' suggestion that I could be President someday is actually a possibility now.

Trooper York said...

I know you think this is crazy.

I mean it is crazy that the President could flat out lie about taking over health care in this country and destroying an entire industry. He did it with half of the country vehemently opposed but the media and courts lay down for him. Now that it is proven that he lied they are just making excuses and preparing to have the government take over even more.

Who thought that the government would read all of your emails and have a record of all your phone conversations and it would just pass like a fart in the wind and nobody goes to jail?

Don't put anything past this evil man and his enablers.

Methadras said...

If one didn't know better, you would think they are trying to shove single payer down the throat of the public. No, they couldn't be that wily/stupid. Could they? /sarcasm

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Trooper York said...

How do we know what the troops would do?

I agree that they are loyal Americans but they obey orders.


Most don't obey blatantly illegal orders. While there are certainly some who would go along, the vast majority would stand up for what is right.

Trooper York said...

Maybe.

But what if some units did and some did not? What if they waited to see what the political process would do?

What if it was too late for them to move? What if it seemed that the majority that voted Obama in agreed with what he was doing and only the right wing wackos were protesting?

You know like about the debt ceiling? Or the IRS auditing Obama's political opponents. Or Obamacare's lies?

What if the enablers give him political cover and the Court says it is ok?

Trooper York said...

I went through this already in NYC.

The electorate overwhelmingly voted for term limits. Bloomberg decided he didn't care. He had the City council vote to overturn what the public had voted into law. He got another term.

What makes you think Obama won't do the same thing or something similar?

Trooper York said...

He will fabricate a thin tissue of lies to justify it. His people will go for it.

Who would stand against it if he was "protecting" us from right wing crazies like Ted Cruz or Sarah Palin or Rand Paul?

Would phx?
Would A Reasonable Man?
Andrew Sullivan?
Bob Sheiffer?
David Gregory?
Al Sharpton?
Jon Stewart?
Tina Fay?

Would the liberals think that the Constitution was more important than stopping Sarah Palin from becoming President.

Trooper York said...

Based on their behavior during this administration makes you think that they will say that no this is wrong and we won't stand for it?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Do you know anyone in the military? If so, do you know any of them that would support a coup? Because that's what it would be if President Obama refused to leave office, and the soldiers I've know are smart enough to understand that and patriotic enough to not sit by and let it happen.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

(Also, the soldiers I've know are better at grammar than me are. )

test said...

AprilApple said...
The private market will need a bailout, and it will get one.


The bailout is already part of the law. If Medical claims exceed a certain threshhold (I think it's 103% of projections) the government picks up the tab.

The good news is that health care will suck for everyone.

Great healthcare will remain available, but access will be by referral. It will just so happen that government employment will provide referrals to the best care facilities.

test said...

Trooper York said...
How do we know that Obama will step down when his term is over? He has no problem lying.


This is ridiculous. Why would the left support him in this? Obama's made his contribution, why do they care between him and Hillary or Warren? Why would they risk their legitimacy? What's he going to do, refuse to move out?

AllenS said...

Most people in the military have no ammo. They are only issued ammunition when they are given it by their superiors. It is closely monitored.

If the troops are ordered to fix bayonettes, that's what they will do. If they are ordered to defend the White House with only bayonettes, that's what they will do. Officers and senior NCOs will be standing behind them fully loaded.

It would have to take the officer corps do defy Obama, and there are a lot of them these days that probably wouldn't go against his will.

Don't trust your local police, either.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

And just for the record, as much as I don't like President Obama, I don't believe he would try to stay in office past the end of his term, even if he thought he could get away with it.

And yes, I think that people who believe that he will attempt to stay in office are just as crazy as my in-laws who thought that President G. W. Bush would try the same thing.

AllenS said...

Yeah, Obama will make a mad dash to Hawaii as soon as his term is over. They won't even stop by in Chicago to say goodbye to the minister and Ayers.

Where he will write his next book: "Bush did it."

Leland said...

Trooper,

Hillary will stand up to Obama not leaving office. She may let him have credit for Obamacare, but she wants to be the one to give us Universal Hillarycare. And he'll leave. She'll be sure to give him a golden parachute. Obama doesn't want to lead, he just wants the trappings of leadership. A plane, a chef to make him pancakes and burgers, security to keep Michelle away when he's eating, and live time tickets to the NCAA Basketball tourney. He'll leave office.

bagoh20 said...

He already has the prizes, and is guaranteed a fortune just for talking the rest of his life. He wants out of there pronto. He hates the job, but wanted the resume' bling, and he has it now.

Trooper York said...

Marshal said...
This is ridiculous. Why would the left support him in this? Obama's made his contribution, why do they care between him and Hillary or Warren? Why would they risk their legitimacy? What's he going to do, refuse to move out?"

This is ridiculous. Is he going to monitor all of your phone calls and emails? Why would the left support him in this? Why would they risk their legitimacy?

This is ridiculous. Is he going to send the IRS after the Tea Party?
Why would the left support him in this? Why would they risk their legitimacy?

This is ridiculous. Why would he pass a law that would dictate what health insurance policy you can have and what doctor you can see and what procedures you can get to save your life? Why would the left support him in this? Why would they risk their legitimacy?

This is ridiculous. Why would the left not protest when he kills American citizens without trail or jury with drone attacks all over the world? Why would the left support him in this? Why would they risk their legitimacy?

ndspinelli said...

The NSA is forwarding this thread to Valerie Jarrett in real time.

Have you read the tapped Pope Francis when they were in conclave and he was still a cardinal!

ndspinelli said...

We need the Padre here on this and get his take. What's ya'lls.

Trooper York said...

What evidence that anyone on the left or in the news media would stand against anything that Obama wants to do?

When have they done that when it would count?

Not exposes after he is elected and the bodies of those murdered by terrorist are rotting in their grave.

Why do you put anything past this man?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Trooper-

You are ranting. Think about what Marshal said, then reconsider your response.

Marshal's case was clearly related to Obama being replaced by another equally liberal Democrat. Why would the liberals support Obama over any other equally liberal hack?

On the other hand, liberals would support all the things you suggest because they support expanding government control in every way possible. For that they are happy to risk their legitimacy.

Trooper York said...

AllenS has a good point.

Why were some many soldiers murdered on an Army post by a fanatical Muslim.

Could it be because they had no bullets for their guns?

Could it be that this crazy murder could not be stopped because it would be racial profiling and not politically correct?

test said...

Trooper,

Those other policies have some advantages and some supporters. Leaving office is a basic constitutional requirement. Even people who are apolitical would be outraged.

I don't want to argue, let's wager instead. I'll bet $50,000 to your $1,000.

Trooper York said...

I am just pointing out that many things have happened that I never thought could happen in America. Without protest or demur by the left or the main stream media.

When the unthinkable becomes commonplace what makes you think he won't take the next step?

Obama's respect for the Constitution?

ricpic said...

Everyone in Washington is heartless. The ANNIHILATION of the middle class - that's what the Obamacare driven doubling of the cost of health insurance will do to all but the desperately poor - barely ruffles a hair on the well coifed heads of the leaders of both parties. If I were a coiffed head I'd be afraid, not cavalier.

Trooper York said...

You guys have a lot more faith in Obama's decency and respect for the law than I do.

What makes you think that most liberals would think that Hillary is a respectable liberal alternative especially if she runs a campaign trashing Obama? How did she fare against him when they ran against each other? How did it work out for her and Bill when they played the race card?

Bloomberg found a way to go around the law to get another term. Obama can do the same thing.

Trooper York said...

Marshal what is the advantage of the President sending the IRS after his political enemies.

Trooper York said...

Bloomberg wasn't satisfied with term limits and found a way around them. What makes you think that Obama will not do the same thing?

Leland said...

what makes you think he won't take the next step?

His general laziness. I don't think the man is stupid, but he is lazy. He rather eat his damn pancakes and play golf than be a leader. He'll be a leader for the trappings it comes with, but offer him those same trappings without responsibility, and he'll walk. By law, he gets most of those trappings already. All he needs is a private jet, which I'm sure someone will provide for him. It's Ayers that will not want Obama to step down; otherwise Obama will be happy to go.

Trooper York said...

I see a lot of scenarios where he would not step down. How about a very close election between Hillary and Sarah Palin where Hillary wins the poplular and Palin wins the electoral. Hillary had broken with Obama and trashed him so he hates her even more than he does now. The same stuff happened as with Bush/Gore.

What if Obama stayed on because it was going through the courts?

Giuliani wanted to do it after 911.
But he had no support. There would be a lot of support for Obama doing something illegal that violates the Constitution. The libs and the media support that from him every day in every way.

Only the right wing wacko Tea Party types would protest. How has that worked out for us so far?

test said...

Trooper York said...
Marshal what is the advantage of the President sending the IRS after his political enemies.


I don't believe he sends them, I believe they do it on their own because they're overwhelmingly committed leftists. Sometimes they intend to act (such as releasing information about Joe the Plumber) and sometimes it's a result of how they perceive things. Maybe the Tea Party fiasco was both: someone first interpreting the TPs as political and then Lois Lerner et al seizing that opportunity.

Leland said...

I am just pointing out that many things have happened that I never thought could happen in America. Without protest or demur by the left or the main stream media.

Fully agree on this. On another blog, one liberal finally confessed that there were things he wished he could blame Obama for, but we never discussed them, like the War in Afghanistan still ongoing and Gitmo still open. Umkay, but nobody is stopping liberals from complaining about these things. They are censoring themselves from those discussions. Obama's first act was to "close Gitmo", yet it is still open and operating. Where is the investigative hard hitting journalism on that story?

Trooper York said...

Those are the types of people who will have no problem with Obama staying on as President. I mean FDR had four terms and Obama is just as great a President as FDR right?

That silly amendment was just a mistake. Like Prohibition. Or slavery. I mean not letting Obama have a third term is just like slavery. Keeping a man down because of some bullshit that a bunch of old white men wrote a hundred years ago because they didn't want a progressive to be President.

There must be a penumbra or something that covers that. I mean if we can suck live babies out of womb and kill them when they can live out of mothers body we can certainly find a way for the greatest President who ever was to have a richly deserved third term!

Trooper York said...

Who is going to say no to that?

Paul Krugman?
John Kerry?
Keith Olberman?
Rachael Maddow?
Andrew Cuomo?
Chris Christie?
Jesse Jackson?
Lawrence Tribe?
Bill Moyers?

They would not be so racist.

Trooper York said...

Term limits are just an artificial barrier to the will of the people.

It is a know fact. All it requires is a majority vote of the Supreme Court. You know the same way you can turn a penalty into a tax. There is a penumbra I telling you. It's there somewhere if you look.

Trooper York said...

Known fact. Sorry.

edutcher said...

What the Demos didn't count on was that people might get mad enough to look elsewhere for political leadership. There was no Tea Party in '09.

Krauthammer says this could damage liberalism for a generation.

If we're lucky.

Lydia said...

"There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity... You can smell it. It smells like death."
--Big Daddy, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

rcocean said...

There are only two things standing between Obama and a 3rd term:

1) A 5th vote on the SCOTUS.

2) The Democrats don't think they need Obama. Right now, they expect Hillary! or whoever to roll over Christie in 2016.

But Trooper is right. If banning Abortion and Gay Marriage is "unconstitutional" - why not POTUS Term limits?

rcocean said...

Liberals and Progressives have always believed mickey-mouse "laws" or the "Constitution" (written by dead white males) should never come become them and power.

"Just win Baby" has always been their philosophy.

Trooper York said...

Seven days In November

Oval Office Wednesday November 9, 2016

“Well the election results are in Mr. President” said Jay Carney “It’s a replay of Bush vs Gore.”
“What do you meant Jay?” said the President as he played with his Blackberry. It was never too early to work on his NCAA brackets. “Spell it out for me please.”
“Hillary won the popular vote but it seems that maniac Ted Cruz won the electoral. They are contesting Florida in court and demanding a recount. So it is still up in the air.”
“Either way the country loses Mr. President” piped up Valarie Jarrett who was commonly referred to as Rasputin behind her back. As much for her facial hair as her Svengali like powers over the lazy Chief executive. “Your agenda and legacy will be trashed by either of them. That racist Cruz will destroy Obama care and wipe out Food Stamps and clean energy. He will be a disaster. The Tea Party will destroy this country and everything we have built. Hillary will be worse. After the way she attacked us and threw you under the bus about Benghazi you know she is going to let loose the dogs to investigate everything that happened during our time of office. We can’t let that happen. It will be a witch hunt. And who is a bigger witch than Hillary?”
“Listen to them Barry” intoned his wife Michelle as she flexed her arm muscles and broke a walnut. She was not referred to as Rasputin even though in fact she actually was a beard. “We have to think outside the box. I mean who says we really have to step down when the country is in chaos? Either one of those damn fools will destroy the America that we have built.”
“Yes that’s true” murmured the distracted President as he tried to figure out how to get the PGA standings on his phone. “Bring me some options on what we can do. But first I have one important question. Jay?”
“Yes sir?”
“What is my tee time today?”
(to be continued}

JAL said...

Here's a thought: Many military are armed citizens.

Many know the do not have to obey an illegal order.

You know, I thought this presidency would be bad.

But this is all beyond anything I imagined / nightmared.