Author Joel Kotkin, of The Daily Beast, views the conditions in California as neo-feudal and he breaks down the population into four sections:
"The Oligarchs: The swelling number of billionaires in the state, particularly in Silicon Valley, has enhanced power that is emerging into something like the old aristocratic French second estate. Through public advocacy and philanthropy, the oligarchs have tended to embrace California’s “green” agenda, with a very negative impact on traditional industries such as manufacturing, agriculture, energy, and construction...
The Clerisy: The Oligarchs may have the money, but by themselves they cannot control a huge state like California, much less America. Gentry domination requires allies with a broader social base and their own political power. In the Middle Ages, this role was played largely by the church; in today’s hyper-secular America, the job of shaping the masses has fallen to the government apparat, the professoriat, and the media, which together constitute our new Clerisy. The Clerisy generally defines societal priorities, defends “right-thinking” oligarchs, and chastises those, like traditional energy companies, that deviate from their theology.
The Yeomanry: In neo-feudalist California, the biggest losers tend to be the old private sector middle class. This includes largely small business owners, professionals, and skilled workers in traditional industries most targeted by regulatory shifts and higher taxes. Once catered to by both parties, the yeomanry have become increasingly irrelevant as California has evolved into a one-party state where the ruling Democrats have achieved a potentially permanent, sizable majority consisting largely of the clerisy and the serf class, and funded by the oligarchs..."
Although in this article the new serfs are considered part of the Democratic majority (along with the Oligarchs and the Clerisy), they are kept from property ownership because of high real estate prices, which in turn are influenced by tight land-use regulations. For example there are restrictions on the building of detached houses in favor of concentrating people in high-rises, with the goal of addressing environmental concerns. These issues affect not only the new serfs, but the yeomanry as well, and the article sites the inability of a biomedical engineer earning $100,000 per year to buy a house in Orange County.
The article ends with the interesting insight that Gov. Brown, being a former Jesuit, is well-suited to run a feudal system, and then sounds the warning that California's class system may influence American class structure in the future.
Daily Beast
The article ends with the interesting insight that Gov. Brown, being a former Jesuit, is well-suited to run a feudal system, and then sounds the warning that California's class system may influence American class structure in the future.
Daily Beast
96 comments:
That was a startling analysis. (the t dropped up there)
The New Serfs: If current trends continue, the fastest growing class will be the permanently property-less. This group includes welfare recipients and other government dependents but also the far more numerous working poor. In the past, the working poor had reasonable aspirations for a better life, epitomized by property ownership or better prospects for their children. Now, with increasingly little prospect of advancement, California’s serfs depend on the Clerisy to produce benefits making their permanent impoverishment less gruesome...
Keep em down, don't let them own property, but - give them just enough so the Oligarchs and the Clericy can sleep at night.
When the Oligarchs and the Clericy get together at fancy cocktail parties, they need to feel good about it all.
When a society takes this road, the homosexual obsession always follows. Why?
Shouting Thomas said...
When a society takes this road, the homosexual obsession always follows. Why?
That seems like a non sequitur, ST. However, you may find comfort and solace in the early writings of the Spanish explorers in California who noticed certain things: link
I don't quibble with that analysis of California, however, it assumes the sustainability of both the clerisy and yeoman classes which is questionable. I wrote a simpler analysis based on the one party politics of the Old South here. I even did my own artwork for that one instead of stealing it unattributed as per usual.
/crack
Oh Dear Lord is that tortured.
I even did my own artwork...of course you did.
ST the gays are the oligarchs thats why.
Ritmo, What's your Apple TV question[s]. My bride is here to answer if I can't.
You could not buy a house in Boston making 100k either, unless there are two of you who make 100k, or if you are a trust fund baby which there are many here. My neighbor, who is getting his Phd at MIT, father paid for his condo in full-800k and pays all his bills and condo fees-I want that father.
You could rent a 500 square foot studio for $2500 though.
Ritmo and Titus are tag-teaming today.
My favorite part is the clerisy. That fairly describes everyone I know. It explains why every single pleasant dinner, every gathering devolves to preening, eventually, most often sooner than later.
On the drive up. Notice some industrial activity, make a preening moralistic remark.
During the meal discuss how smokers should be nudged to quit. Nudged persistently for their own good. Nudged aggressively for society's good. Nudged insistently for obedience to policy. Commanded by law. Unless they smoke themselves, very strange indeed. Sometimes they talk to themselves.
After the meal discuss how positively evil and retarded and impossible to deal with Republicans and conservative type people are, even for their retarded views about conservation.
On the drive back exclaim upon hearing the verdict, "That bastard!"
Concern for the environment generally because they really do have a 30,000 ft view of things back and forth zig zagging up there seeing all that activitah down there then coming into it. They are just one person in their lofty thoughts but we are many and everything counts in large amounts, it is a material wor...
clang clang clang clang clang
That is my life.
Time for an anecdote?
I mentioned to a friend, showed him a way to say the phrase "global warming" so deftly so rapidly so compactly that it is amusingly dismissive.
The fingertips, G flips around opposite index finger for global solar revolution, ("W" for world "I" for international all similar) then the same three fingers used to depict thermometer. The "G" separates along the index finger to show rising temperature. All right there at the fingertips, three fingers, very tight and so fast it can be missed.
That was overheard/overseen by a regular clerisy who privately objected, internally disagreed. The thought of that hanging out there nagged him.
So much that hours later he steered a conversation,
"I don' t see how anybody can not accept the fact of global warming,"
It bothered him I appeared to be not onboard. He needs us all to agree on this. He's a straightup neurotic. (His house is immaculate, spotless, and I mean it)
He wasn't talking to me but he made sure I overheard. The neurosis, it shows. I turned and asked, "Would you feel better with the grand gestures the situation deserves?" And made them, the gestures really are grand. They really do convey the warmth of hot breath enveloping the entire celestial sphere rotating as passing in its majestic arc across the vastness of space. Is that better?
He's gone. Flew back to Montreal. Then? East coast to meet up with the other Clerisy.
ST the gays are the oligarchs thats why.
For now.
Although the article is hysterical, the problems are real enough. I lived in southern California for a few years, more than twenty years ago. Even then it was in trouble. They had exceeded the carrying capacity of the land. Too many fucking people squeezed into a relatively inhospitable environment.
One thing it seems to be missing, unless I missed it (I skimmed), is the influence of foreign wealth. I'm on the eastern side of LA county right now, not far from San Bernardino or Orange county. It's interesting how much I hear about Chinese property owners. Not immigrants, though the Asian 1st and 2nd generations certainly have a huge impact in this area. Chinese nationals, who stay in China. Some major undeveloped properties in Pasadena, very near the City Hall, are apparently Chinese owned. Not undeveloped, old, old unused buildings in a super prime real estate. I've had friends looking to rent, and they found one house where the owner would give them a $300 per month discount if they would keep a room for him to visit from China for a few weeks once a year in order to keep up his visa.
Given the economy, there's really no reason why prices should be this high still, yet they are and it seems to be unrelated to other California prosperity but is related to Chinese investors. That's what I'm noticing at least.
Hey Mr. Spinelli. Basically I'll be getting a "smart" TV that I'll want to feed a line to from my Mac and didn't see if or why the Apple TV thing would be necessary at that point. I'm not even sure that I'd need to split the DSL line into it if I can get a feed from the computer (I know there's only one HDMI port but I don't really intend on using a computer and TV simultaneously, it's really just to transmit the signal through a bigger screen positioned where a TV should be) but even then the geeks tell you to use a wireless router. Mine's wireless but I could never get that part to work so just use the jack anyway.
Thanks!
I figure it's easier to just set up this way to fit my needs and if I someday find that I'm just not a complete person unless able to run a TV and a computer at the same time, I'll probably find a solution at Radio Shack - lol. In this age of semi-trained "Geek Squad" monkeys, I've been finding those guys are still the best.
Anyway, for the record I've found Joel Kotkin very interesting to read in the past, when first learning about urban design, and his aesthetic sensibilities help him market himself really well, but I then found him just too political and biased to bother much with further - not that any of this would surprise you, I'm sure. Also, his perspective is extremely limited to California.
But then, I probably wouldn't read Jane Jacobs, either.
I think the best way to understand the sociology of space and larger living arrangements is to start with the Greeks, and then move your way through to Edmund Bacon. And from there, just hit up a successful design firm and check out the projects they're up to. There's a lot more that people know about how to design a city than they knew in the past. "Big data" - a silly but useful word - benefits this stuff immensely.
But here Kotkin is obviously looking at an entire state and riffing at a level not much different from what a comedian would use.
Ritmo, I didn't know you spoke in tongues. I like Apple TV because it's easy, particularly w/ HBO Go and Netflix.
Ha! Well, whatever allows me to do that, I'll go with. ;-)
ST the gays are the oligarchs thats why.
For now.
Yea, they will fall off the creative economy any day now.
What I meant Titus is that your hoped for "Hunger Games" scenario will never come to pass.
I used to be a member of the clericy, but now I'm almost a serf, save that I own some property. I guess that makes me a Kulak, and we all know what happened to them.
@Deborah, about that map: it's apparent, but not strikingly apparent, how the size of California counties grows with distance from Sacramento. You can really see it here. I wonder if this doesn't lead to some of the disproportionate local government up north.
During the meal discuss how smokers should be nudged to quit. Nudged persistently for their own good. Nudged aggressively for society's good. Nudged insistently for obedience to policy. Commanded by law.
personally I'm a non-smoker (because when I was a kid, surrounded by smokers, I just thought it was nasty), but a dinner party like that would make me want to light up right at the table, preferably with some nasty unfiltered cigarette from someplace like Turkey or Russia.
Northern counties have been voting to break away and form their own state. The State of Jefferson. (I'd totally move there.) The State of Jefferson has been a topic since the time I was growing up. Along I-5 there are a few signs saying "Welcome to State of Jefferson" that have been there for decades. Counties in southern Oregon and northern California disgusted with their state governments' focus on the concerns of populated areas at the expense of small counties. Something similar is happening in Colorado.
Kotkin is a brilliant analyst- particularly when it comes to California as a whole and to urban/ suburban issues in America.
Shame this thread didn't take off because because there is some overlap between left and right views on California, at least among non-Californians. The current state of California is the result of a long period of largely unrestrained pro-growth and pro-immigration policies, policies that Kotkin seems to largely favor.
http://www.newgeography.com/content/002492-americas-demographic-opportunity
Chip, that's why I don't like to talk politics with friends or family, and try to slip away to take my plate to the kitchen, or something.
Chick, that's interesting about the counties. Is it partially due to the mountains, I wonder.
Deborah: I suspect it has more to do with the staking of gold claims in the early days. Every square foot up there was spoken for and needed administration, surveying, etc. They may have "rightsized" a county based on eastern models. Vast swathes of land elsewhere were still empty when boundaries were drawn.
It's the aftermath I worry about. Those are no longer the most densely populated areas. Yet they are the best represented at the county level: law enforcement, judges, etc. It's not fair! Wah!
How do the enviro clerisy square their concern for Gaia with their support for the Mestizo invasion? Are the roadside beer bottles an enhancement of the environment when they're thrown out of a pick-up truck being driven at 75 mph on the wrong side of the road by a blind drunk Mestizo on his thirteenth cerveza because it would be racist to object?
That's a rhetorical question, Montana Urban Schmendrick, you marxist murderer of the country I love.
Chick is completely a grievance monster. Wah, chick is imposed upon.
But you know chick has sucked a dick or at least touched one and saw it splew.
It's not too late for the thread and as far as an interesting right-left mix of views go, I'd go beyond California and check out what these guys are up to. I don't check them out that often but the name, masthead and mission alone are enough to inspire. Plus, the aesthetics of whatever graphics they do use remind me of McSweeney's.
Oh, I spoke too soon on the thread's prospects. Ric showed up. Good thing his bumper-sticker string of thoughts don't take up too much space.
Reading him is like playing with those magnetic letters that they stick on fridges for people to make interesting words and phrases with, only his starting blocks consist of the same recycled right-wing buzzwords that you can pick out of a typical Drudge Report. Entirely predictable.
But he does get to shift his Harlem obsession into hatred for Southern California. For him, that's a progression of sorts - a diversity of hatreds. By hating a multiplicity of people, he's trying to show you that he's not so simple as people might think.
It's like his childlike way of saying, "Look Ma, I learned to hate something new!"
Let's give him a gold star.
I've lived in CA for 32 years now, nearly all my adult life, and I've watched this happen. Of course, this huge state is complex and not all of it fits the analysis, but I would say overall that pretty accurately describes the general trend.
The changes including the one party leftist control is an unfortunate synergy between many of the very rich and poor who both support the same policies and politicians. The end result is that both the rich and the poor blow a lot of money foolishly, and most of that money comes from the rest in the middle. The taxes for a person making $45k - $50K in California are by far the highest in the country
The state really is incredibly inefficient and ineffective in the public sector, coasting along on pure momentum from an earlier time, and the power of a relatively few rich companies and people who kind of represent what California has always been, a gold rush. The ore is petering out, and it really shows.
For example, Los Angeles which is incredibly lucky in location, business diversity and tax base provides it's government a revenue stream unmatched by most states, let alone other cites, but it has the worst maintained roads in the country. It never even rains here, we don't have freezing and thawing roads, or ever have to use salt or chains, yet we can't keep the pot holes filled. Public parks and other public lands are very poorly maintained. Where does all the money go instead? The big one: Pay, pensions, benefits for public employees, and a distant second is green initiatives, and a plethora of other programs that are little more than image burnishing and special interest causes with no payoff. It's just wasted, with no prioritizing to the basic responsibilities of government, because that stuff just isn't sexy, and won't make you famous or rich. It's a big, corrupt, circular human centipede of reach arounds that simply ignores the needs of most taxpayers.
But, California is so big, beautiful, mythical and diverse, that it can take an enormous amount of this crap and still slug along, but what an incredible lost opportunity. We could do such amazing things here, but we are paralyzed by cronyism - big ugly ubiquitous, all-seeing and controlling Democratic (and democratic) back scratching.
Gays are important in entertainment media for several known and unknown reasons, but I'd assume the less controversial ones would have to do with doing away with the concealing of a long-suppressed existence. That's always good for artistic expression. And as it relates to romantic dealings, so much the better. Further, the rest of society (apart from several grouses here and elsewhere) recognize the larger good in this, as it unpacks and expands upon our understanding of love and connection. Unless you're someone who feels that hatred and divisiveness are generally positive attributes for a civilization to encourage, that's a good thing.
And yes, I'd put money on Chick having or having had a same-sex attraction, or more than one. This is notorious among his neurotype and his fixation with that and with fertility in a cult-like sense shows that there's something there that he takes very, very personally.
As I said earlier, ritmo and Titus, you guys are tag teaming today. You're both arch-sullivanists, and your analyses of me are indistinguishable.
...your analyses of me are indistinguishable.
Scientists regard the replication of results among multiple observers and observations as a way of confirmation truth.
But you work in law, right?
"This is notorious among his neurotype and his fixation..."
Homophobia is hard to recognize in yourself when you imagine you are immune.
The Manson family came to scientific consensus on most issues they explored. This was central to their success.
@Titus: My disdain for the situation portrayed in "The Hunger Games" is hardly unique. I think it was whole the point of that fictional movie. But you (and perhaps ritmo) are the only characters online here and at Althouse who actively cheer for the demise of middle America and applaud the Stanley Tucci types. Perhaps it is your own infertility (inborn or acquired) which drives your personal hatred for the straight and fecund. We'll just never know.
bagoh20 said...
The state really is ... coasting along on pure momentum from an earlier time, and the power of a relatively few rich companies and people who kind of represent what California has always been, a gold rush. The ore is petering out, and it really shows.
Even 25 years ago southern california seemed well into the decay phase to me. They had ignored the obvious fact that the LA and SD are located in a relatively fragile environments and had built and expanded in such an unrestrained way that I couldn't see any outcome that wasn't awful. LA in the thirties or forties seems to have been a wonderful place to live but it struck me as hell-hole for most people in the nineties and there was something sour about the people as though they realized the dream had slipped away.
This sounds like a bash but I found the place sad, a lost opportunity.
There is similar unrestrained sprawl on the east coast, on Long Island and western MA for example, but the greater rainfall and vegetation makes it seem more sustainable and livable.
Hmmm, well, the only time gays really get to me or cross my mind in a personal way are when they slowly walk down the street in front me, leisurely impeding my path, in an exaggeratedly effeminate way (in terms of gestures). But then, so do exaggeratedly effeminate women. Or anyone who blocks the path while acting ridiculous. I'd make fun of sauntering steroidal meatheads for their exaggerated mannerisms, too. Most people resort to making personal fun of things, no matter matter how arbitrary or indirectly related, to people that personally bother or annoy them.
But no, their mere existence, lives, stories or professionally dramatic expressions or creations do not bother me in the slightest, as they obviously do Mr. Chicken. Do you think they should?
For the record, I wasn't too impressed with Hunger Games, either - so however Mr. Chicken's trying to train his right hemisphere to associate that with American politics and American conspiracy theories is up to him and his mirror neurons to figure out.
CL, Stanley Tucci was the MC in the Hunger Games who got killed at the end?
ARM a@ 7:44, thanks for the hopeful article.
"But you (and perhaps ritmo) are the only characters online here and at Althouse who actively cheer for the demise of middle America ..."
Bingo!
Is Chicken actually trying to identify the hardscrabble existence of the competitors in that movie as "middle America"? What about the urban poor whom he hates so much? As far as destruction goes, they were pretty well destroyed already. But from past experience, I know that these are among the many sorts of ideas that he's very illogical about explaining clearly. And as someone who says he believes wealth should be worshipped, I don't see how his pretension to glamorizing the rural poor makes any sense, anyway. It sounds like compensation, and not too different from how he expresses his ideas regarding sexuality.
And as someone who says he believes wealth should be worshipped, I don't see how his pretension to glamorizing the rural poor makes any sense, anyway.
I had a blog tag "blessed are the wealth makers". If you can't parse the difference between "wealth" and "wealth maker," I doubt you could distinguish people from rocks. No wonder you think I worship plutocracy.
I'm not a fan of ignorance or any place where it's promoted. So what does that have to do with "Middle America" and am I now supposed to appreciate Hunger Games? I told you douches that I didn't like the movie.
A.J. loves talking about how awesome he is for living in the wealthy Mainline Philly suburbs. What makes that fat fuck thinks he knows squat about "Middle America", geographically, economically, culturally, or otherwise? What a damn poseur!
Ritmo: I wouldn't demonize the urban poor and never have. I'd equate them to Appalachian poor. But you, ritmo, would disparage the latter based on geography and skin color.
I had a blog tag "blessed are the wealth makers". If you can't parse the difference between "wealth" and "wealth maker," I doubt you could distinguish people from rocks. No wonder you think I worship plutocracy.
For starters, your use of the word "blessed". Do you think that "great" politicians should be "blessed"?
I'm an admirer of Steve Jobs and the Google guys. I don't talk of blessing them.
Some owners and entrepreneurs bring good, progressive or interesting things into this world. Many don't. The ones whom I think are personally good people are those who care for their employers and look after them. But even those people I think of as just nice, decent people? What does my lack of speaking of them in religious terms mean, to you? Well, complete inoculation from "worshipping" them, for starters.
Does secular admiration of a person or what they do make them or their works less personable or harder to appreciate?
AJ Lynch said...
CL, Stanley Tucci was the MC in the Hunger Games who got killed at the end?
Yes.
My son has read all he sequels and assures me that the city doesn't fare very well.
But you, ritmo, would disparage the latter based on geography and skin color.
Where?
I disparage proud ignorance, and that's it. Ignorance hurts civilization and I don't admire people who think that's admirable.
The virtue of city life is that there are more people, so learning to get along with more of them takes more of a challenge - and that's a good thing.
It also exposes you to more experiences, also challenging your understanding of life and what you can give back to it.
One of my favorite places in the world touches the Canadian border and is remote as hell. Being in the wilderness also stretches the human soul in ways that are good, challenging and speak to the virtue of the person doing it.
And some small towns are really bucolic places that blend both experiences and virtues.
So the only remaining question I have for you is, "What is 'Middle America', how does it fit or not fit with what I've described, and what about it am I supposedly trying to destroy?"
Do you think that "great" politicians should be "blessed"?
No. That's not who I had in mind.
I'm an admirer of Steve Jobs and the Google guys. I don't talk of blessing them.
Normal people use the term bless everyday without implying worship or veneration. Perhaps what irks you is that it riffs on Scripture. Please be more specific
Some owners and entrepreneurs bring good, progressive or interesting things into this world. Many don't. The ones whom I think are personally good people are those who care for their employers and look after them. But even those people I think of as just nice, decent people?
I'm going to stick to whom I meant in my series of blog posts with that tag. Otherwise I have no clue who you are talking about or what you may be projecting onto me.
What does my lack of speaking of them in religious terms mean, to you? Well, complete inoculation from "worshipping" them, for starters.
You are confused. See above
Does secular admiration of a person or what they do make them or their works less personable or harder to appreciate?
No
Hit a nerve did we Ritmo?
And no, I am not a selfish, greedy rich guy or fat for that matter.
I consider myself middle class; one of my grandfathers was a coal miner. I worked my way thru night school to get my bachelors degree. While working two jobs, I studied very very hard to pass the CPA exam.
Whatever success I may have I credit to my parents, hard work, some good luck and to being fortunate to have been born in the USA.
You really really find it hard to believe people can move up in this country. You are so sure that most of us stay stuck in whatever socio-economic group we are born into.
It's not the environment here that's unsustainable. As soon as you leave the city there are endless miles of uninhabited land: giant deserts, the largest fertile valley in the world, and richly forested mountains, and coastal areas. The environment is the strong point. It's huge, beautiful, and well protected.
The only thing that's unsustainable is the government, and what it's doing to the people here, and their natural vitality.
Although the most populous state, we are 11th in density behind states like NY, MA, CT, MD, NJ, FL, PA,.... And most of California's people are stuffed into a few large cities which leaves an enormous amount of land in natural areas wide and empty.
I grew up in PA, which I always thought of as a very rural uncrowded place, which it is, but not so much as CA. One of the things I love about CA, is that I can drive from downtown L.A. and in less than an hour be on a remote mountain trail without a soul in sight for miles. If I keep driving east I won't hit another city till I leave the state 300 miles away.
The various estates ought to remember those who forget history (like them) end up repeating it.
Will the knockout game replace the National Razor?
PS Poor Ritmo wants a fight, but everybody's bored by his non sequiturs.
Either that or they're waiting to see him in the tumbrel.
For the record Ritmo, it's been nonstop fag gassing my entire life. Nothing has been hidden. And I'm 63 years old.
I suspect the same was true for the 60 years before I appeared on this earth.
Among the egghead class, gassing about gays and commending oneself for doing so has always been the custom.
It's a status marker.
The great oppression of the gays never happened. Even the martyrdom of Matthew Shepard was just another hate crime hoax manufactured for propaganda purposes.
So great businessmen should be blessed but great politicians shouldn't. I see. I guess Bernie Madoff (and George Soros?) is laughing at how you'd elevate him over FDR, Lincoln or George Washington. Interesting.
Otherwise I have no clue who you are talking about or what you may be projecting onto me.
You don't have to worry that I'm trying to "trick" you. I just think that employers who care as much about their employees as their overall business are decent people, worthy of being admired, and bring as much non-financial value into the world as the businessmen you are so busy blessing.
Somehow you got me to do produce more than my fair share of alliteration in that last sentence.
ritmo said: I disparage proud ignorance, and that's it.
I agree, that is regrettable. I see it in urban settings too. Do you? I see it in Titus; I see it in Crack; I see it in you. You act insufferably proud at times. I'm sure you see me the same way.
__________________
Let's define "Middle America" according to how the 2012 election cut things, looked at county by county. I'm red and you're blue. Is that clear enough?
No one cares what you "consider" yourself, A.J. You think you're better than others for living on the "Mainline", and everyone from New York to Baltimore knows what that means.
As for your last bit, you're full of shit and engaging in more ignorant, wishful thinking. Look at what 30 years of right-wing economics has brought: Less upward mobility than nearly any other comparable country. Denmark has more upward mobility than America.
You sure do pretend to admire the concept, but you lick the right-wing so much that you'll pretend they've provided it when in fact they destroyed upward mobility. The only upwardly mobile thing about you is how far up the ass of the right-wing your tongue will lick, and if that means lying about all the opportunity they've destroyed, you'll gladly do that too.
We know where your allegiance is, A.J., and it's not to opportunity.
That's what I'm talking about when I pounce on ignorance, Chicken. A.J. lives on the east coast, just outside a major city, amongst neighborhoods that he likes to name-drop for how hoity-toity they are, and pretend to identify with the concept you call "Middle America". Let me know when you're ready to either wake him up or admit that you like to name-drop political concepts that have nothing to do with what you'd use to describe them.
Yes, there are some and perhaps many ignorant, even proudly ignorant, urban people - ignorant about different things, perhaps, but ignorant. I think they tend to get called out more, though... There are more people around them to do the calling out, of course.
Yep we hit a nerve - tonight Ritmo is really angry at his lot in life so he comes here to try and get us to buy into his oh so righteous path.
@ritmo: I just looked back at my own blog and realized that my tag was "wealth makers". "Blessed Are The Wealth Makers" was only the title of a single blog post, one which paid respect to WH Carothers who invented nylon at DuPont. In fact, all the "wealth makers" I "venerated" were chemists/inventors, some of whom I felt were under-appreciated given how much wealth they did create -- ussually from waste products.
But I suppose you do think I admire anyone who starts a company. This is not true and I challenge you to find such blanket expressions. I think you're projecting.
Let's define "Middle America" according to how the 2012 election cut things, looked at county by county. I'm red and you're blue. Is that clear enough?
to continue and strictly speaking, "Middle America" should be the political middle between red and blue. But historically, Middle America was defined as Middle Western...square...everything the beatniks despised...what plays in Peoria, etc. It's not Manhattan. It's more Archie Bunker.
It's good question that you asked.
Since A.J.'s response is as lacking in content as it was in research I'll get my just as short reply out of the way first, and note that he has no evidence to rely on for claiming that he favors opportunity. America is the land of it, he'd like to claim, and then turn around and point to his statistic of one, himself, as evidence of of that. Let's not bother him to be patriotic, he's satisfied enough with his own, masturbatory perspective. He IS America, and everyone else is just too smug to see it.
As for Chicken, yes, chemists are responsible for a lot of the material and (more importantly) social advances that America's made. They contributed greatly to our economy, and still do. Not sure what you mean by "waste products", but I think that w/r/t those that aren't wasted but sold to consumers, it was an incredible period we went through in the 20th century. And now we are going through the next generation of materials science.
Anyway, I do admire what it takes to start a company but that sounds like a trivial issue personal preference here that doesn't have much to do with the argument of what we consider to be and admire in the way of "wealth creation".
"Middle America" should be the political middle between red and blue.
Why? What if the blue was so far blue as to be indigo? You'd reset your definition of "middle" to be deep purple (insert guitar riffs here)? No.
But historically, Middle America was defined as Middle Western...square...everything the beatniks despised...what plays in Peoria, etc. It's not Manhattan. It's more Archie Bunker.
The problem with these 40-year old references, though, is that they're, well, 40-years out of date. Don't get me wrong, I'm well versed in that stuff and what it means, just think it means more to battles fought between baby-boomers than it does to a now slightly more significant series of generational slices.
It's good question that you asked.
Thanks. I do try to do that from time to time.
I don't see creating Federal jobs in DC as significant wealth creation because it doesn't have the same multiplicative effect that true wealth creation does. Sure, it might keep some Washingtonians out of poverty, but the wealth doesn't spread around.
Ritmo - I am an Eagles and Phillies fan too- do you doubt that or do you need some form of proof?
Are we back to that, Chicken? Those jobs weren't in D.C. but at the state and municipal levels. Again, Reagan didn't eliminate them during recoveries, and neither did Bush, so it's a shame that they're keeping unemployment higher in the meantime by attacking them. But that has nothing to do with the argument of mobility. Mobility has indeed declined and it's hard to see how Europe, with its much bigger public sector, is beating us in mobility if you want to confuse that with a different argument about public-sector employment.
And anyway, lookee here! A.J.'s still trying to wedge his way into the thread and make an argument all about HIM! What a surprise. I bet his clients love the way he makes up numbers, too - because hey!, that's what professionals do: They're too independent to get verified information.
Ritmo - admit it- your hands are full tonight because you are having your ass handed to you.
But before you do that - give me proof that you don't hate America.
Ritmo, I hate to break away from an interesting discussion, but my real life is calling.
And be nice to A.J. He's one of the few here like yourself who contacted me to send regards to Troop.
You got it, Chick - Have a good one.
bagoh20 said...
One of the things I love about CA, is that I can drive from downtown L.A. and in less than an hour be on a remote mountain trail without a soul in sight for miles.
Yes we drove up to Joshua Tree Park several times and I appreciated this aspect of the place, but the existence of these large natural preserves is primarily due to the fact that the whole region is a massive desert, with large regions that can't sustain any form of agriculture.
I think to blame the problems of southern CA just on the current politics is to take too narrow a focus. First of all the problems date back a long way in my view. To me, the place is just massively overpopulated relative to what would be ideal for that region. And this is where I think there is some overlap in left/right thinking. It is inherently conservative to want to preserve what works. For a period LA seemed to work but unrestrained growth has pushed it into a zone where it no longer works. Maybe there is a way to reorganize the city to make it work with the current population but that would require a civic and political will that doesn't seem to exist.
At some point growth can become a negative, making people's lives less enjoyable. Maybe SoCal has reached that point or even long passed it. The Japanese seem to have accepted reduced growth in return for a more conservative and sustainable future, as have the europeans to a lesser extent. In some ways this is the conservative approach, to preserve what we have rather than rush ever onwards to a potentially much worse place.
A.J. I love America as much as you pretend to love Philly. I mean, cheerleading is the hard part, right?
And I love how we're beaten in opportunity by Denmark. Why? Because, well, if a guy named "A.J." can be something other than a coal miner, then every American's life is awesome and all is right with the world. Your humility is an inspiration to all the lesser mortals of the inner city. And if they can't emulate it then they must be bringing on their own misfortune in a way that no Dane ever would.
Never been to Denmark but I think they have a monarchy- are you suggesting that may have a causal effect on their abundance of opportunity?
Ritmo - do you get your playbook from the NY Times like most good little libs? I bet Paul Krugman is the QB on your fantasy team?
Why would I suggest that? Is that what you think is the cause?
I think it might be because they don't confuse self-pride with patriotism.
No, I just get my facts from someplace other than my own life story and don't confuse pride with patriotism. Would that make me a bad conservative?
Come on, let's wrap it up, as the admin advised.
You know Ritmo- I think you are a miserable excuse for a human being but I believe you believe what you say so I never called you a liar except when you claimed you worked as a healthcare provider. But you love to call others liars and you dispute their own self-declared beliefs as lies. Well that is nuts. I suggest you get professional help cause you need it.
Ritmo believes Denmark has better economic mobility because the Danes know patriotism does not = self-pride.
[He heard this in the huddle with his bestest pal Krugman].
The numbers show that Denmark has better mobility. Why won't you believe it?
It's pretty incredible that you think that something is true just because you'd believe it. That's pretty much the textbook definition of delusion, speaking of professional help. You seem to be bringing up things in a way that foreshadows your need for correction on them.
Lastly, your persistent vitriol is strange, to say the least. When others are told to treat you nicely, do you always respond to them with this much abuse? Is it a way to take advantage? There must be a lot you need to get off your chest. I realize I took to roughing you up a bit earlier in the thread, but it's hard to see what you stand to gain at this point by being such a meanie.
Anyway, I challenge you to say something intelligent and civil in your next response. But if not, then good night.
AJ, if you didn't read it, the article ARM posted was interesting and hopeful, as far as the American economic future due to immigration and keeping our birthrate higher than others such as Japan, Germany, and Russia:
demographics
Go Eagles!
ARM, I don't think it's the quantity of people. Of course I wish there were less, so I could have more space to myself, but the problems here that are most noticeable are a direct failure of government and quasi-government to use it's vast resources effectively or even honestly.
Just a couple local examples from just last week: The Department of Water and Power recently "lost" 41 million dollars while steeply raising customer rates. Then it turns out the money isn't just lost it was "diverted" by the union to secret accounts that they have yet to justify or account for, and they refused to cooperate with the investigation until ordered to. The money is gone. Also it was discovered that the city is repaving roads that are in good condition instead of the bad ones, because fixing the worst ones costs much more per mile, and that makes the union look bad.
This is stuff reported in the very liberal L.A. Times, not some rumors on talk radio. It's not small numbers either - it's major potions of our resources available to make the city better just being stolen or wasted everyday in giant chunks.
L.A. isn't very high density at all compared to other large cites, so it's not overcrowded, it's over corrupted. If it was 50,000 people and run like this, it would have the same problems.
Deborah- I just bookmarked the link - looks interesting. Thanks
Ritmo- there you go again- making stuff up - claiming I denied Denmark has favorable mobility. You are a despicable liar.
Sadly, those in power will never admit failure.
The corruption gravy train keeps on rollin'.
AprilApple said...
The New Serfs: If current trends continue, the fastest growing class will be the permanently property-less. This group includes welfare recipients and other government dependents but also the far more numerous working poor. In the past, the working poor had reasonable aspirations for a better life, epitomized by property ownership or better prospects for their children. Now, with increasingly little prospect of advancement, California’s serfs depend on the Clerisy to produce benefits making their permanent impoverishment less gruesome...
Keep em down, don't let them own property, but - give them just enough so the Oligarchs and the Clericy can sleep at night.
When the Oligarchs and the Clericy get together at fancy cocktail parties, they need to feel good about it all.
Prop 13 is in their target sights to cement this sentiment completely. If Prop 13 is overturned, it will be an utter disaster for this state, the people that live and own property in it and probably for the country at large.
So you hate America, admit Denmark has greater mobility, and pretended you work in health care?
Dethpicable!
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