"This is done, not in hostility to others; not to injure any section of the country, not even for our own pecuniary benefit," Davis declared in January 1861, "but from the high and solemn motive of defending and protecting the rights we inherited, and which it is our duty to transmit unshorn to our children.
Nearly a dozen counties in northeastern Colorado are now ready to take on that high and solemn motive.
"Si se puede—yes, we can."
"I know initially you look at this and you say, 'Secession? Creating your own new state? That kind of tends to be a little bit out there,'" Conway said. But he has some ideas for how to get support, particularly from Congress, which would have to sign off on a new state.
His big idea? Puerto Rico. If Puerto Rico (or, Washington D.C.) gets admitted as a new state, that's a likely boost for Democrats. "You can almost make the argument that you're allowing two states in so you don't disrupt the percentages in terms of the United States Senate or House." So, really, forget 51 states. Think 52.Via National Journal - thanks rev.
103 comments:
I think 57.
But, will it last 20 years?
Texas could be broken into 5 states (part of the old Annexation treaty) and CA has 2 secessionist movements going.
North CO, along with Jefferson (everything north of Mendocino) and South CA, would make 3 Conservative states and more Conservative states than Lefty would come out of TX.
There's your 57 right there.
PS Secession was held out in the Federalist Papers as the last protection from a tyrannical government.
Texas has no interest in becoming 5 states.
The only thing they want is to get the federal government off their backs. Except for the major urban centers and the illegal heavy border towns.
A few points.
1. Citing the Confederacy's motives positively = fail.
2. Gandhi never said that. That's a quote from an early 20th century labor activist.
3. Most importantly, what's in it for the other 49 states? Some of us will lose representatives, all of us will lose power in the Senate... why would we agree to that?
If they want to secede, let merge with another state. Admitting them as a new state is unacceptable.
The devil is in the details.
I say we divide all fifty states into two each: one lefty , and one righty. We're all tired of being represented by the other side's corrupt incompetents.
100 States! It's like the metric system. We just put a thin blue line down the middle of each star on the flag. Everybody could modify old flags with a ballpoint pen.
Boom, done. Next issue...
If at first you don't secede, try, try again.
Nothing secedes like secession.
"But why secede?"
Because failure is getting overused.
I would like to see the northern half (or more) of Wisconsin seceed and join the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and form a new state. The capital would be Green Bay. Doesn't matter what the new state would be called. Although I have some ideas.
Revenant said...
A few points.
I neglected to mention this article came via the National Journal.
Sorry about that.
The capital would be Green Bay. Doesn't matter what the new state would be called. Although I have some ideas.
They could call it "Old Detroit".
I guess this would be a good opportunity, as any, without putting too much of a fine point on it, not that I want to butter anybody up or ... ok, I think I made my point. What is the point?... the point is I want suggestions to replace the tired Dali quote subheading the blog.
Any suggestions?
If they want to secede, let merge with another state. Admitting them as a new state is unacceptable.
As an outsider who once lived there, I think those counties might be happier as part of WY or NE; they are more inclined that way in many ways. Plus it would break the tyranny of square borders.
Before secession, they should instead flout whatever state laws are bugging them which I presume are namby-pamby Front Range gun laws as well as the fracking initiatives.
Cody Jarrett said...
Texas has no interest in becoming 5 states.
The only thing they want is to get the federal government off their backs. Except for the major urban centers and the illegal heavy border towns.
Actually the old Annexation treaty has been brought up several times in the last few years and certainly Rick Perry has raised the subject.
I'm betting, if South Texas wants to be part of the Reconquista, there are people in North, East, and West Texas who don't want to be dragged down by them.
I would not oppose California splitting in two. As it stands now, Southern California has zero representation in the US Senate.
Lem said...
I guess this would be a good opportunity, as any, without putting too much of a fine point on it, not that I want to butter anybody up or ... ok, I think I made my point. What is the point?... the point is I want suggestions to replace the tired Dali quote subheading the blog.
Any suggestions?
How 'bout, "Walking through life with you has been a very gracious thing"?
Either that or, "I'm lookin' at a tin star with a drunk pinned to it".
and certainly Rick Perry has raised the subject.
He mentioned Texas as a whole seceding to become a sovereign nation (with a top ten in the world economy, LOL).
Not dividing up into multiple states.
Ed, I know you think you know, but I've got dozens and dozens of close friends and family members in Texas. They all talk of secession, they never talk of splitting into 5 states.
How about:
"I write in order to attain that feeling of tension relieved and function achieved which a cow enjoys on giving milk." H.L. Mencken
How about this? ( worded better)
"Always remember you are unique, just like everyone else".
How about "I hate Illinois Nazis". Unless, of course, you don't.
AllenS, It's hot, the Brewer's suck, and I sense you're sipping beers and thinking radical. Although, I think there are plenty of counties in mid and even southern Wi. that would be happy to join your new state. It would look like a serpent.
I write in order to attain that feeling of tension relieved and function achieved which a cow enjoys on giving milk. H.L. Mencken
Who knows what cows really feel? Seriously, why didn't Mencken just phrase it terms of a nursing mother?
The first tornado in Ladysmith, Spooner or Oconto and they would all be screaming for federal money.
Northern Wisconsin isn't really a job hub either.
Definitely no STEM industry.
Golf Course mower, seasonal ski ticket tacker or supper club worker.
They live in shacks up there too, other than the ones who have a second home and come from Chicago or Minneapolis.
why didn't Mencken just phrase it terms of a nursing mother?
Ummm...he did.
Seriously. Why do you think cows give milk? It ain't fer ice cream.
Northern California....State of Jefferson....would love to cut its ties to Southern <LA)and Middle California (SF) in order to be able to control our own resource and not be hamstrung and dictated to by people who have no idea what anything is like outside of their own urban cesspools.
One of the big things that people who are against the idea say....How can we provide all of the social services on a State level. Well.....maybe we don't provide them. If we don't continually give hand outs and cut back to the bare minimum of social/welfare cushion, maybe some of those leeches and dirtballs will move back to California.
We can keep our water or sell it!! Utilize our resources timber, agriculture, mining without all the green agenda from the latte sipping weenies in SF telling us what to do. Use our hydro again instead of having to shut it down in favor of wind farms AKA Bird Cuisinarts.
A girl can dream.
Lem said...
But, will it last 20 years?
No, it will take 20 years to make it so.
Ummm...he did.
Seriously. Why do you think cows give milk? It ain't fer ice cream
I meant a human mother. He could have just asked one instead of presuming to think like a cow.
Cows don't think. They ruminate.
Wouldn't it have been the same thing, Chickie? He still wouldn't have really known.
Plus cows are cool.
Nice, Sixty.
Also, (if you read my comment) secede would be spelled seceed in the new state.
All states are eligible for federal money. Where do you live, under a rock?
Good one Meth.
DBQ, you broke the code.
Cody Jarrett said...
and certainly Rick Perry has raised the subject.
He mentioned Texas as a whole seceding to become a sovereign nation (with a top ten in the world economy, LOL).
Not dividing up into multiple states.
Ed, I know you think you know, but I've got dozens and dozens of close friends and family members in Texas. They all talk of secession, they never talk of splitting into 5 states.
"They" are not the entire population of TX.
This is a hit and run post as I'm cooking dinner.
You may have heard on the news that a young man from Australia was gunned down by 3 bored teenagers.
You didn't read that the teens were black.
MSDNC (the joke network) and CNN (the other joke network) fail to mention that fact. MSN didn't mention that fact. I'm certain all the various pro-democrat hack alphabet channels aren't going to mention that FACT either.
I wonder if Obama will chime in and tell us that if he were a bored teen, he'd look just like the perpetrators.
If it looks like failure, it looks like Barry.
I think we need a non-partisan commission to determine every state's right to exist. Let Colorado split, sure, but then we could package together those other states that really have way too much influence for their population or size. Make Iowa and New Hampshire one state, call it Primary. New England: one football team, so one state. Do the Carolinas really need a North and a South? West Virginia can rightfully be put back with Virginia. DC could be sharply reduced so that all main populated neighborhoods get put into their respective states.
Meanwhile, California, which takes up the geography of like 6 east coast states or more, would be split into it's rightful 3. SoCal can keep up to like Bakersfield or San Luis Obispo. Redding can be North California, and probably should get the southern part of Oregon for good measure.
Sacramento and the Bay area gets to be Central California.
Between me and DBQ, we've talked to everyone in California (there's only like 14 different people, just taking up millions of different bodies), so it's settled on our end of things.
California and New York are way too big and diverse to be single states.
1) Detach NYC, Long Island, Lower Hudson valley and create a new state.Suggested state name: Liberalville
2) Detach southern Cal - include Bakersfield, San Luis Opispo, all of I-15. Suggested state name: Mexico Norte
If you really want to scare the Hell out of the Demos, have central and southern IL secede from Chicago, central PA secede from Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, etc.
Then the little city-states can vote for all the welfare they want and the rest of country doesn't have to be dragged along.
Create a new Midwestern state:
Chicagoland: Made up of Cook County, Milwaukee, Gary Indiana and Indiana counties bordering the Lake Michigan.
rcocean, I like your Chicagoland idea. It would be like Baghdad.
Take away South California and Jefferson and there isn't much left of CA.
AprilApple said...
This is a hit and run post as I'm cooking dinner.
You may have heard on the news that a young man from Australia was gunned down by 3 bored teenagers.
You didn't read that the teens were black.
I referred to it in the "Christian Nation" post.
Do any of these little animals look like they might be Choom's son?
"They [leftardists] go to a Sierra club meeting and then stop off and fill their car with gas."
nerrr
ed - I didn't see your post.
The media are doing all they can to suppress the fact that 3 black kids gunned down a young man in cold blood - for sport and leisure.
Narrative - doesn't fit.
We are all waiting to hear what Obama has to say. Since, ya know, racial hatred in America has been stirred up like a hornets nest by our own president - and his lap dog Chris Matthews, the biggest racist on earth.
I'm sure those black teens weren't swayed by NBC, the media and Obama to hate on whites. Nah.
oh wait. I'd say that Obama, MSNBC and NBC have blood on their hands.
The three who murdered the Aussie weren't all black. One was white and one appears to have a white mother.
If the point is that stories are covered differently when black teens are victims rather than shooters, I agree, but just wanted to clarify the facts in this case.
You may have heard on the news that a young man from Australia was gunned down by 3 bored teenagers. You didn't read that the teens were black.
The two accused of the killing are black, the third (charged as an accessory) is white. Although I suppose we can't rule out that he was a "white black person", or even one of the dreaded "white Hispanics".
Photos here.
But, will it last 20 years?
Will my state, New York, last for 20 years? I read recently that New York City is essentially dependent on the tax receipts collected from 40,000 high earners, mainly in finance, to go on as the "compassionate" welfare state it is. 40,000. If they, or a significant portion of them say enough is enough and pick up and go--it's over. New York implodes. The entire rotten structure exists on the faith that somehow the privilege of living "where it's at" will keep the obscenely overtaxed in place, forever. I'd put my chips on Eastern Colorado, or whatever it calls itself, outlasting the hollowed out home of takers after the makers have been driven out.
Oops, C Stanley beat me to it. That'll learn me to not read all the posts.
Monterrey, Mexico and the entire state of Nuevo Leon would vote for US Statehood in a nano-second--and vote Republican to boot. They've always been the most progressive/energetic part of Mexico business-wise and feel that Mexico City does nothing but tax them to death while shorting them on government services. So there is THAT potential state for consideration.
If the progressive democrats want to ban fracking (and oil and gas) in the state of CO - then I demand a ban on any registered democrat to buy and use oil and gas for any part of their lives.
Althouse comments on wingsuit appeal and danger and stupidity, mentions age old dream of flying slightly, showing some noncomprehending girldom.
If you get hundreds of hours fooling around in an airplane, you reach what you thought flying would be like, sensitive to what it will do if you do this or that, even well outside its normal flying envelope. Often contrary to what every pilot book says the plane will do. It doesn't do that, you notice, it does this under those conditions.
A wingsuit on the other hand then looks to you then like a stupid waste of altitude making mostly heat, very clumsy and hardly flying at all. It appears more to be a directed fall than flying.
But it's a stylish fall, and shorts aren't involved.
Honestly, rather than breaking up states into smaller chunks I would prefer to break the United States itself into smaller chunks. It is pretty much impossible for a group of 310 million people to have "representative" government.
50 smaller chunks, say. A more perfect lack-of-union. :)
Thanks for the video, Lem. I've met Jon Caldara once. He's a good guy.
hooray! Bagoh has returned. And with a great idea. Jimmy Carter actually had that one right. The metric system is superior.
Weld County is Debt free. So is North Dakota. Can't say that about a single democrat-run anything anywhere.
Flying squirrel suits: splat goes "IckЯus"
Virgil, good point about Nuevo Leon. I'd bet that most states northward of Mexico City would vote the same. Though hell, maybe all the states would do so, I wouldn't be surprised.
I resent the remark about motives on the part of the South. Obviously made by someone unfamiliar with the entire constitutional concept of seccesion, for any reason whatsoever.
Can't type well on this HD doohicky, no spell check either, so fill in the blanks or ignore them as I've recently decided to not give a shit.
Weld County is Debt free. So is North Dakota.
Per capita, North Dakota receives $4856 more from the federal government than it contributes in taxes.
I'm sure there are plenty of welfare queens who are debt-free, but I don't know that I'm interested in hearing them brag about it.
LOL - right. Did you say welfare queens?
North Dakota runs a budget surplus. I don't take seriously any numbers that come out of MSNBC.
Ann Althouse said...
@Bob Mario Richard... He said yes to a life that invited death, and he got everything he sought.
Althouse slams pro-choice culture of death.
"Per capita, North Dakota receives $4856 more from the federal government than it contributes in taxes."
Lesson: If you're going to take someone's land it's better to kill them all first.
Wind Beneath My Wings.
I'm so going to hell.
I don't think this comment would survive top drop.
For a regional take as a stepping off point people should read the 1991 work "The Nine Nations of North America" by cultural geographer Joel Garreau. Visit Wiki for a look-see. Interesting take.
Thanks rh for the top alert.
I'm flying solo, under the radar.
"$20 dollars if you hit the car"
I wonder if all those missile sites have anything to do with that 4856 number. Context is relevant.
I resent the remark about motives on the part of the South.
Jefferson Davis, the Noble Southerner quoted above defending secession, represented Mississippi. Here is Mississippi's declaration of secession, which flatly states that protection of the institution of slavery is their one and only reason for seceding. So "resent" away, I really couldn't care less.
Obviously made by someone unfamiliar with the entire constitutional concept of seccesion, for any reason whatsoever.
Heh! You think it matters if the secession was legal? Suppose it was. You know what else is legal? Congress declaring war on any nation it wants to, for any reason it wants to.
Ironically, the only states the US government *isn't* allowed to conquer and impose new laws on are the states that belong to the Union. Legally speaking, you can leave... but legally speaking, we can conquer you after you do.
No one should mourn.
Not very John-donnee of the professor.
On behalf of the Unites States government, I hereby commander this wind suit.
LOL - right. Did you say welfare queens? North Dakota runs a budget surplus.
You receive $3.1 billion a year more from the federal government than you pay to it. Your budget surplus is $1.6 billion. You're bragging about a "surplus" that amounts to just over half of the money you were given for free.
"Suicide Hot Line 1-800-O-DONT-DOIT"
You picked a hell of a time to read the wind suit's fine print.
I wonder if all those missile sites have anything to do with that 4856 number. Context is relevant.
Context is relevant to the question "why do some states receive more money than others". When discussing the economic impact, however, the reason doesn't particularly matter. The economic impact is pretty straightforward: North Dakota's GDP is increased by $3.1 billion a year.
He chose to live on the edge of death, and that was the thrill, the feeling of being deeply alive.
"You know I might be more help if you untie me."
Get Smart - the movie.
It's a costly feeling, and the bill arrived.
The kid didn't have it?
Did it come to soon?
Well, if are going to hit the ground, it is going to happen at some point. I guess I agree with Althouse when she says...
He had no reason to think the day of his death would not be the day of his death.
Lady Diana's anniversary is coming up soon.
The reason and context do matter. ND had no choice in the siting of those missile sites. The reason does matter.
I'm glad I saw this before answering your other, as I feel you're not an honest debater, just one of those interested in scoring political points no matter the means, or manipulation of facts.
If you'd like to feel you've won, go ahead, be my guest. I've learned my lesson in giving you a response to begin with.
Score update: Red Sox 2, San Francisco 1. at the end of five.
For a replacement quote, I suggest: "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way."--Mark Twain
Mostly because it sounds like something bagoh20 might have said.
I like that Lydia.
I recently went to two dinner parties in Weld, one a few weeks ago. Took some pictures, wanna see 'em? Okaygoeslikethis bink
Lydia do you have any tattoos?
A few -- you got a problem with that?
That's the girl from the trilogy.
I watched those on Netflix.
I believe I gave my review at top. very positive.
Rh was right about Get Smart, the movie.
Now I got to watch the sequel.
If you think Northern Mexico would vote Republican you must be smoking some pot - or you're John McCain.
Mysteriously, 65-70% of all these natural "Mexican Conservatives" vote liberal democrat when they come north.
McCain's been pushing "the Hispanics are natural Republicans" line for 20 years.
No Relationship between (i) Fed outlays and tax receipts and (ii) state government fiscal responsibility.
ND has always led the country in HS graduation rates, fiscal responsibility, lowest welfare rates, etc.
The reason and context do matter. ND had no choice in the siting of those missile sites. The reason does matter.
No, it doesn't.
I'm not criticizing North Dakota for receiving federal money. I'm criticizing whats-her-face for being smug about the fact that her state has a budget surplus. Running a budget surplus while the federal government is adding billions to your GDP is easy. Running a surplus when the government is siphoning billions OUT of your GDP is hard.
Revenant said...
Heh! You think it matters if the secession was legal? Suppose it was. You know what else is legal? Congress declaring war on any nation it wants to, for any reason it wants to.
Ironically, the only states the US government *isn't* allowed to conquer and impose new laws on are the states that belong to the Union. Legally speaking, you can leave... but legally speaking, we can conquer you after you do
Did any of these secession movements say anything about leaving the Union?
Don't think so.
On behalf of the Unites States government, I hereby commander this wind suit.
Good one.
I like the movie better the more I play it.
Some unintelligible words can be found at the transcription site.
Last night I found out that Raj and Penny didn't really sleep together. She was helping him put on a condom and he let fly and they both passed out drunk.
I found that kind of disappointing. It would have been better if he'd given her multiple shrieking orgasms but she was still wracked with disabling guilt afterwards.
But then you'd have to change course and make the whole thing into a drama, I suppose.
If you take a good, hard look at Penny, she's really not all that good-looking, but she sort of makes up for it with personality.
The willing suspension of disbelief has something to do with it all, I firmly suspect.
Regarding those states that "get" Federal money. The money isn't just handed out without strings. Most of it is in Defense Spending and associated salaries, Medicade (welfare) Social Security and SSI (welfare), Education (mandated at the highest amounts by the Feds) and Agricultural give aways to corporate farms and kickbacks to cronies.
The government isn't "giving" money to the States without demanding that they do something. North Dakotans didn't get a choice on the military spending.
Here is a site that actually discusses these concepts and puts it more into perspective. The data is from 2010 so I'm sure that with the new booming economy of North Dakota and other states that were able to escape the heavy hand of Obama on their oil and energy industries the revenue from the State is much higher.
Given the CHOICE, many areas of those States that are desirous of self control, would likely not want to have those funds and associated nightmare programs foisted on them. If YOUR state wants to attract all of the welfare scum and leeches.....be my guest, then YOU can have all that fab federal money.
@ Revenant, if you want to actually debate something, try giving us data and relevant arguments instead of just "Nanny nanny boo boo, your state takes money too" statements.
The issue isn't necessarily the money, it is being told what you MUST do and what you CAN'T do by fiat from people who have no real interest in you, your area or your economy. Ideologues who lack the common sense of a ground squirrel.
Thank you, DBQ.
Cody Jarrett said...
So eddie, you've talked to every fucking person in the whole fucking state of fucking Texas?
Bullshit.
I know more Texans than you do.
Texas is going to have a serious problem on their hands. Namely in that leftists are deliberately infiltrating the state to turn it blue. There are examples of this happening elsewhere. It would not shock me at all if the Urkel administration has been behind it either.
Yankees pulling U-Hauls into Texas has been a problem for a long time. The best thing for Texans to do is to convert them or out-breed them.
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